Player Discounts

Year of The Hawk

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Now that we are coming into some free agents that we would like to keep I find it interesting peoples feelings on the issue. IMHO players should make the money grab where they can unless they can play for a winning team for only a bit less. Football careers are short and who know when an injury might end it. It is a business first. Teams are only as loyal as salary cap and team needs dictate. It doesn't matter how beloved the player is. That is the way it works. For those who criticize players who go for the money ask yourself something. If a competing business offered you 1-2 million more a year for your job would you stay where you are??? Hell if I would.
I hate it just as much as anyone that a player I liked might be gone (especially if I just bought his jersey). I don't think the players like it either but money is money. Who would want to keep moving around starting over again. Just because it is football does not make it any less of a business. Once again just my opinion.
 

nsport

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"Don't hate the player, hate the game" or any other cliche that says there's no reason to lay blame other than this is how the system is now.

Easy to simplify what teams do and why they do them. I started seeing this while playing Madden a few years back then I noticed the Green Bay Packers basically doing this with their team in real life. My strategy - get everyone I can on a rookie or UFDA deal as a DB, RB, or WR above 98 speed. Get everyone else on defense with above a 95 tackle. And all QB's with a 99 Throw Power. OL with at least a 95 block skill (either running or passing). My entire team would be under 25 years old. When a guy was coming up on his final year of his deal, I'd trade him for draft picks or let his deal lapse and leave in free agency.

The key to this strategy was simple - don't fall in love with your players. Stay romantic with your system. In this way, you'll always have someone to dance with. <-- Intentional use of bad metaphors.

The point is the Green Bay Packers have done it - and we are in the process of doing it. The UFDA's on this team will probably not be resigned if they have had above average success with us, because they have been playing for less than market value and will likely be paid by someone else rather than stay here. They won't take a "hometown discount" because they have played for under market value. Meanwhile, we should be grooming capable players to fill their spots. Tomorrow, we will love a new Golden Tate or Michael Bennett.

In contrast, the teams that don't use this system are always strapped - such as the Redskins, Cowboys, Ravens, even the Broncos. The worst thing that will happen to this team is when they have to pay Russell Wilson. Everyone else is replaceable, but he won't be. Let's hope that when it's time for him to get paid, he is clearly a top 5 QB - not like Flacco who promptly proved to everyone he's not worth $20+MM per year.
 

mikeak

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We get discounts due to no state income tax

We got some discount because of a winning team

I am not talking about millions by each player. But if you get 5-10 guys on a $100k-$200k saving then you suddenly saved enough to sign Hauscka.

Besides this I think we save some money by signing players with 1 year left. Rather $10million in the bank than possibly $12 million in the future.

Finally I truly believe RW will take less of a deal. $16M instead if $20M
 

Penman96

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I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

If our offensive system calls for a mobile QB that protects the ball well, there are more out there with the toolset. They might not be as good as Wilson in all regards, but this team has been built to not require a QB to carry it. And to not require a $20 million / year investment at the QB position.

Of course - I'm in the camp that thinks Green Bay overpays Rodgers, so my delusional thinking starts at a very basic level :)

Flacco, Stafford, Romo, Ryan, Bradford, etc...these QB are killing their teams and it's their GM's fault. These teams cannot win until they correct their QB salaries, it's obvious to anyone.
 

QuahHawk

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Well if Bennett is willing to pass up $8 mil a year in Seattle for $10 mil a year in Chicago. Right off the top Illinois taxes will take about $500k per year from him. Plus I believe Illinois property taxes are much higher than Washington's.

Anyways I love living in Washington and if another employer offered me a 25% pay increase I would not move to take that job.
 

mikeak

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Penman96":icd9tkn3 said:
I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

.

"Around the league" - as in what - pre-Super Bowl experts that also said how Denver would pick us apart?

The ones that really studies the game know how good he is. He is easily getting $18 million plus on the market. Doesn't matter he won't go anywhere because to everyone that matters he is in the don't cut list....
 

Tokadub

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The way I look at it, I would rather be happy then have retarded amounts of excessive money.

When it comes to taking 4-5 million to play for our awesome team or taking 6 million to go play for some losers in a shitty City I don't think there's any question I'd rather take less money to live an awesome life.

This is kinda unrelated but it's similar in ways. I am trying to start my own business programming games for Android/iOS/PC etc. Now who knows I may fail horribly and never make a living doing this (I've only been at it for a little over a year even starting to program). BUT I am 100% positive I would rather run my own company and have fun making my games than take a buyout from some shit company like Microsoft that wants to own my product.

I've already seen what it's like working for Microsoft and they are shit. I'd rather take 50% of the money to have fun and do things my way than sell out for a couple extra hundred thousand or million. That is assuming I can already live comfortably without selling out.

Basically what I'm saying is money isn't everything, there's a huge difference between the dream of playing for the Seahawks (or running your own company) or selling out for more money and playing for some shit team like the Oakland Raiders (Microsoft).
 
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Year of The Hawk

Year of The Hawk

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I agree that it seems that playing for the Seahawks is a great thing. But there are many things that go into happiness. Winning the Super Bowl I think may hurt our veteran free agent chances with us. Now that they have a ring they will probably want the cash for there last run while in the league. Also Seattle while great for many may not be the best place to live. Many like a warm climate and maybe a city with more nightlife (New York, Miami, ect). Or maybe they want to play for a team located closer to where they live and there families. Also Pete has a system where players are part of the system and are used very role specific. Some may want more play time which would make them happy.

As far a Microsoft I have no idea what it is like to work there but I would bet there are plenty of happy people who work there. And I would bet there are many who are not. Just like everywhere else.
 

Penman96

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mikeak":ch4tifr7 said:
Penman96":ch4tifr7 said:
I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

.

"Around the league" - as in what - pre-Super Bowl experts that also said how Denver would pick us apart?

The ones that really studies the game know how good he is. He is easily getting $18 million plus on the market. Doesn't matter he won't go anywhere because to everyone that matters he is in the don't cut list....

Notice I said "perception". Yes it is analysis talk which is fairly meaningless, and fan polls, which are also fairly meaningless. However, teams need QB's that fit the system, and when Luck, Wilson, Keap, Newton, and RGIII are in the mix, Wilson isn't first choice in most cases. He may be first choice in Seattle - and that's good for all involved.

I'm sure he will get signed, and who knows what the guarantees and the structure will look like. But I'd bet you a Russell Wilson jersey that he doesn't get over $15 million / year in cap space. And if he really wanted 418 / million a year I'd be saying goodbye to him.
 

Penman96

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Penman96":1orlt38e said:
mikeak":1orlt38e said:
Penman96":1orlt38e said:
I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

.

"Around the league" - as in what - pre-Super Bowl experts that also said how Denver would pick us apart?

The ones that really studies the game know how good he is. He is easily getting $18 million plus on the market. Doesn't matter he won't go anywhere because to everyone that matters he is in the don't cut list....

Notice I said "perception". Yes it is analysis talk which is fairly meaningless, and fan polls, which are also fairly meaningless. However, teams need QB's that fit the system, and when Luck, Wilson, Keap, Newton, and RGIII are in the mix, Wilson isn't first choice in most cases. He may be first choice in Seattle - and that's good for all involved, not least because it means we have leverage when negotiating his contract.

I'm sure he will get signed, and who knows what the guarantees and the structure will look like. But I'd bet you a Russell Wilson jersey that he doesn't get over $15 million / year in cap space. And if he really wanted $18 / million a year I'd be saying goodbye to him.
 

mikeak

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Penman ^ and I disagree

Coaches, GM's would look at RW over RGIII in most cases. RGIII year one was the result of a system and he has a complete lack of durability

Many would also pick him at the same spot or higher than as Luck / Kaep / Newton. Even if for the arguments sake you say lower are you aware that Cutler signed for $18 million / year? Flacco is getting what $20 million / year? Eli is getting something similiar

It doesn't matter if you rank RW first or fifth or eight - he is in the upper group that is getting $18 million plus per year and there is no way this team is saying goodbye to him
 

seedhawk

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IF there is such a thing as a "player discount", I bet it is measured in "k's", not "m's". Bet we saw the start of a new trend last year in free agency. Most of the new FA's will not recieve what they "think" they are worth.

When J (1 div title, no playoff wins) Cutler is worth 18Large a year, then just what is RW with a Bowl title gonna get?
 

pocketprotector

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Year of The Hawk":wv6o9r44 said:
Now that we are coming into some free agents that we would like to keep I find it interesting peoples feelings on the issue. IMHO players should make the money grab where they can unless they can play for a winning team for only a bit less. Football careers are short and who know when an injury might end it. It is a business first. Teams are only as loyal as salary cap and team needs dictate. It doesn't matter how beloved the player is. That is the way it works. For those who criticize players who go for the money ask yourself something. If a competing business offered you 1-2 million more a year for your job would you stay where you are??? Hell if I would.
I hate it just as much as anyone that a player I liked might be gone (especially if I just bought his jersey). I don't think the players like it either but money is money. Who would want to keep moving around starting over again. Just because it is football does not make it any less of a business. Once again just my opinion.

I would absolutely take a 20% discount to work with an engineering firm that had a great environment, one in which the abundance of talent around me allowed me to be a part of a team that accomplished unrivaled and historic success.

Yes I believe I would take that 20% discount over pocketing the extra cash and watching half or more of the projects I work on fail.
 

Rocket

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Your job doesn't give ya parkinsons, a derivative therein or make you quietly nuts.
You probably don't have many engineers that go down to injury and don't get paid.

The NFL is quite unique that way. It will quite probably cause you long term pain... at best.
Did anyone notice how quick Joe Willy walked? Right... no one did.
 

pocketprotector

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Rocket":c5is01c1 said:
Your job doesn't give ya parkinsons, a derivative therein or make you quietly nuts.
You probably don't have many engineers that go down to injury and don't get paid.

The NFL is quite unique that way. It will quite probably cause you long term pain... at best.
Did anyone notice how quick Joe Willy walked? Right... no one did.

That doesn't change the value of success and legacy relative to cash.
 

Penman96

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mikeak":2i117mz7 said:
Penman ^ and I disagree

Coaches, GM's would look at RW over RGIII in most cases. RGIII year one was the result of a system and he has a complete lack of durability

Many would also pick him at the same spot or higher than as Luck / Kaep / Newton. Even if for the arguments sake you say lower are you aware that Cutler signed for $18 million / year? Flacco is getting what $20 million / year? Eli is getting something similiar

It doesn't matter if you rank RW first or fifth or eight - he is in the upper group that is getting $18 million plus per year and there is no way this team is saying goodbye to him

We do disagree, and I hope I'm right because I want to see the Seahawks win another SuperBowl, and not get screwed by making the same old mistakes that other post-SuperBowl teams have made and then gone on to fail. I do not want to see any single player make so much money that it hinders our ability to field a strong team. +18 million for a QB? I think not.

There aren't many QB in the league getting +18 million against the cap in 2014 to my knowledge. Rodgers, Brees, Manning (greater) and Brady are under 18 million.

Flacco counts 14.8 million and will surely renegotiate end of this season because he's aware he has doomed his team to failure with his contract. Stafford 15.8 - likely renegotiating. Matt Ryan - 17.5.

Romo - 21 million but renegotiating. Remember he's with another doomed team with 3 players taking over 50 million in cap.

Anyway, these numbers above are to show the bad things that come from paying an average QB a hideous amount of money. Us paying ANY QB +18 million with our system is simply crackers.
 

Anthony!

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Penman96":3lib3wvm said:
I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

If our offensive system calls for a mobile QB that protects the ball well, there are more out there with the toolset. They might not be as good as Wilson in all regards, but this team has been built to not require a QB to carry it. And to not require a $20 million / year investment at the QB position.

Of course - I'm in the camp that thinks Green Bay overpays Rodgers, so my delusional thinking starts at a very basic level :)

Flacco, Stafford, Romo, Ryan, Bradford, etc...these QB are killing their teams and it's their GM's fault. These teams cannot win until they correct their QB salaries, it's obvious to anyone.

Glad your not the GM then, because you do not win SB without a franchise SB as a norm, there are an exception or 2 but not many. Also without Rw we do not make the SB this year so yeah we need him or some as good who can do what he does, the problem is there are not many and they either are or will be making a lot.
 

Anthony!

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Tokadub":3v8nx70x said:
The way I look at it, I would rather be happy then have retarded amounts of excessive money.

When it comes to taking 4-5 million to play for our awesome team or taking 6 million to go play for some losers in a shitty City I don't think there's any question I'd rather take less money to live an awesome life.

This is kinda unrelated but it's similar in ways. I am trying to start my own business programming games for Android/iOS/PC etc. Now who knows I may fail horribly and never make a living doing this (I've only been at it for a little over a year even starting to program). BUT I am 100% positive I would rather run my own company and have fun making my games than take a buyout from some shit company like Microsoft that wants to own my product.

I've already seen what it's like working for Microsoft and they are shit. I'd rather take 50% of the money to have fun and do things my way than sell out for a couple extra hundred thousand or million. That is assuming I can already live comfortably without selling out.

Basically what I'm saying is money isn't everything, there's a huge difference between the dream of playing for the Seahawks (or running your own company) or selling out for more money and playing for some shit team like the Oakland Raiders (Microsoft).

I highly doubt 1 mil over 5 year swill matter to Rw or anyone. Now the difference of 1 mil a year over 5 years might, and rightfully so.

FYI I also worked at MS and totally agree with you.
 

Anthony!

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Penman96":2ocuvcxw said:
mikeak":2ocuvcxw said:
Penman96":2ocuvcxw said:
I believe everyone is replicable - the least replaceable player we have is Earl Thomas. Understood there is huge love for Wilson in our fan base, but around the league there are QB that are perceived as equal or better. Like it or not.

.

"Around the league" - as in what - pre-Super Bowl experts that also said how Denver would pick us apart?

The ones that really studies the game know how good he is. He is easily getting $18 million plus on the market. Doesn't matter he won't go anywhere because to everyone that matters he is in the don't cut list....

Notice I said "perception". Yes it is analysis talk which is fairly meaningless, and fan polls, which are also fairly meaningless. However, teams need QB's that fit the system, and when Luck, Wilson, Keap, Newton, and RGIII are in the mix, Wilson isn't first choice in most cases. He may be first choice in Seattle - and that's good for all involved.

I'm sure he will get signed, and who knows what the guarantees and the structure will look like. But I'd bet you a Russell Wilson jersey that he doesn't get over $15 million / year in cap space. And if he really wanted 418 / million a year I'd be saying goodbye to him.


again glad you not the GM he will get more than 15 mil probably 16-18 and since most are saying he is a top 10 qb or better he deserves it.
 

Anthony!

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pocketprotector":ckrtlu5r said:
Year of The Hawk":ckrtlu5r said:
Now that we are coming into some free agents that we would like to keep I find it interesting peoples feelings on the issue. IMHO players should make the money grab where they can unless they can play for a winning team for only a bit less. Football careers are short and who know when an injury might end it. It is a business first. Teams are only as loyal as salary cap and team needs dictate. It doesn't matter how beloved the player is. That is the way it works. For those who criticize players who go for the money ask yourself something. If a competing business offered you 1-2 million more a year for your job would you stay where you are??? Hell if I would.
I hate it just as much as anyone that a player I liked might be gone (especially if I just bought his jersey). I don't think the players like it either but money is money. Who would want to keep moving around starting over again. Just because it is football does not make it any less of a business. Once again just my opinion.

I would absolutely take a 20% discount to work with an engineering firm that had a great environment, one in which the abundance of talent around me allowed me to be a part of a team that accomplished unrivaled and historic success.

Yes I believe I would take that 20% discount over pocketing the extra cash and watching half or more of the projects I work on fail.

great lets say Rw does the going rate is 20 mil less 20% that is still over 16 mil which his about the range I am thinking, of course what Kap, Cam signed for will be a huge tell as to what it will cost us.
 
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