Why are they ignoring the fact that we ACTUALLY tackle?

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  • So I watched Denver all year against weak competition of which can't tackle after a 5 yard pass. Why does everyone think we completely forgot how to defend the middle and tackle?
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    MizzouHawkGal
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  • Because Peyton Manning.
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    marko358
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  • marko358 wrote:Because Peyton Manning....BOSS!


    Fixed it for you. :mrgreen:
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    Evil_Shenanigans
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  • I beleive that I read a statistical analysis that showed the broncos lead the league in yards after catch and opposed to that were the Seahawks and their defense that led the league in limiting yards after the catch.
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  • Evil_Shenanigans wrote:
    marko358 wrote:Because Peyton Manning....BOSS!


    Fixed it for you. :mrgreen:

    Nice.... Boss.:)
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  • CurryStopstheRuns wrote:I beleive that I read a statistical analysis that showed the broncos lead the league in yards after catch and opposed to that were the Seahawks and their defense that led the league in limiting yards after the catch.

    Correct. Serious now, have you seen any game this year where we allowed massive YAC? Unlike Denver? Or that we didn't dominate special teams, unlike Denver...
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    MizzouHawkGal
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  • MizzouHawkGal wrote:
    Evil_Shenanigans wrote:
    marko358 wrote:Because Peyton Manning....BOSS!


    Fixed it for you. :mrgreen:

    Nice.... Boss.:)


    He's just so wholesome! He seems so friendly when he throws his offensive line under the bus in press conferences, or calls his teammates "drunk idiots."
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  • MizzouHawkGal wrote:
    CurryStopstheRuns wrote:I beleive that I read a statistical analysis that showed the broncos lead the league in yards after catch and opposed to that were the Seahawks and their defense that led the league in limiting yards after the catch.

    Correct. Serious now, have you seen any game this year where we allowed massive YAC? Unlike Denver? Or that we didn't dominate special teams, unlike Denver...


    One thing that I love about our defense is their ability to destroy screens and passes into the flat.
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  • The had a segment on NFL Network that discussed just that, also the fact we have starters like Kam and Earl as our Kick off safetys and our LB's on Punting teams, some of the best tacklers in the league they said being the reason our special teams are so good. Also said Kam and Bobby Wagner being so instrumental in our defense.
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  • That will be the Achilles heel for the Donks. PM dinks and dumks and plays are made by the receivers with YAC. Posted something similar on the Donks site. They don't get it.

    Donks will have a real hard time moving the ball consistently when you consider the Hawks don't just tackle well, but inflict pain when they tackle. T-Rex arms happen after consistent hard hits.

    PM will get frustrated and go for deeper passes and either get strip sacked or picked. He hasn't faced this type of d since preseason this year...and we all know how that turned out. Before any Donk fan uses this as " Hawks fans use preseason as SB" know that both teams left starters in and opened the play book in the first half. If you think differently you don't know the NFL game or didn't watch...Yes, turnovers played a huge part, but what makes Donkey fans think it will be different?
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  • The two big keys are:

    Manning releases the ball in about 2 seconds, which is the lowest in the league. This translates to 20 sacks, which is the lowest in the league. Thing is, to throw the ball in 2 seconds two things have to happen:

    1. you HAVE to predetermine where you're going. Even manning can't make 3 legitimately good reads and get the ball out in 2 seconds. This isn't a Kaepernick predetermination, Manning finds the weak spot in a team's scheme and goes from there. We don't have a tell...we don't hide a weak spot...we line up and make you win matchups. Which means he's most likely going to hold the ball a bit longer, or he's going to throw some contested throws. Our DBs are going to have to get those balls. It's been proven in the playoffs that Manning will throw INT's. He averages something like 2.5 INTs in his playoff losses.

    2. You have to have timing. Even elite WRs don't get consistent separation in 2 seconds. Manning is throwing the ball to a spot, and the WR is going to go get it. Now, this is why I think he stays away from Sherman. Sherm is cerebral: he knows what formations and what releases mean and where the WR is going based on that. He can run the routes for the WRs, which isn't giving Manning that open window to throw to. Another key is that Manning doesn't throw many back shoulder fades. He hits his guys in stride. I don't know if this is an arm strength thing or what, but he's so successful maybe he doesn't have to resort to that.

    The other thing screwing up timing is that we chuck WRs at the line of scrimmage. We have 3 guys that can disrupt and hold up WRs right at the line. They can alter a WR's timing and route. Guys are going to get pushed off their release; they won't be at their spot, and they'll be there a step or so late. Hopefully this causes Manning to hold the ball or move to a different read. We need our rushers to get home. We don't even really need sacks, we just need Manning to move his feet and move in the pocket.

    The other big key is that we are the best in the NFL at defending screen passes. D. Thomas took a screen pass 80 yards to the house. Moreno has been living off of screen passes and crosses in the middle. We are the best at closing and getting the ball carrier down close to the line of scrimmage.

    Manning isn't very good at 3rd and longs. Something around 38% if I remember correctly. If we can stop the run and shut down those short passes, we're looking good. Manning doesn't want to hold the ball.
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  • I've not heard anything but praise for our tackling. In fact, more like all out, over the top gushing.

    To NOT rave about our tackling would be counter-productive to the cause. Hard for the media to sell the #1 Offense vs. the #1 Defense...that don't tackle.

    Time to put aside the pseudo-disrespect stuff. It's officially a fallacy.

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  • Yea a lot of people are talking about Peyton vs the LOB but it's gonna be on our LBers to have a huge game.
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  • Don't be too quick to jump to conclusions about how reliant they are on YAC. Denver got 49% (18th) of it's yardage on YAC. That puts them in the middle of the pack. They throw the ball more (1st) and complete passes at a higher rate (3rd). They are tied for 4th in average air yards per attempt at 4.2.

    I agree that they were able to put up the crazy numbers that they have in part due to playing kraeptastic defenses but make no mistake, they're really good. In watching some of their games it was clear that they got a lot of yards on bad tackling but even if Manning can complete passes for 4.2 Y/A at a 68% clip, they're going to score. They averaged something like 8.3 Y/A this season (on 659 attempts)!

    That said, we're still going to kick their teeth in.
    RockHawk wrote:This has turned into nothing but a personal attack, which goes against our forum rules...... I'll allow it.
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  • There is a another factor that is conveniently missed, the Denver offense is inflated by the effectiveness at home.

    On the road, Denver is still strong, but Denver has a home field advantage just like us. Ours is noise, but theirs is altitude. Combine the altitude with a hurry up offense and you get a defense that can be scrambling by the 4th quarter.

    It is still a great offense, just like our defense is a great defense. But the sheer ability of it to overwhelm the opponent is primarily a Denver thing. Watch the games they lost and look at how effective they looked. An attacking defense can and does overwhelm them. Look to how they played the Colts as an example, though they did score points they were not the buzz saw they normally are.

    Denver simply won't be able to run the defense into the ground as easily as they do as home, though we still will have issues with the hurry up.
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  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:Don't be too quick to jump to conclusions about how reliant they are on YAC. Denver got 49% (18th) of it's yardage on YAC. That puts them in the middle of the pack. They throw the ball more (1st) and complete passes at a higher rate (3rd). They are tied for 4th in average air yards per attempt at 4.2.

    I agree that they were able to put up the crazy numbers that they have in part due to playing kraeptastic defenses but make no mistake, they're really good. In watching some of their games it was clear that they got a lot of yards on bad tackling but even if Manning can complete passes for 4.2 Y/A at a 68% clip, they're going to score. They averaged something like 8.3 Y/A this season (on 659 attempts)!

    That said, we're still going to kick their teeth in.


    I could swear I saw a stat in the last few days that Denver was #1 in YAC by an easy margin. I'll see if I can turn it up.
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  • Grahamhawker wrote:
    E.C. Laloosh wrote:Don't be too quick to jump to conclusions about how reliant they are on YAC. Denver got 49% (18th) of it's yardage on YAC. That puts them in the middle of the pack. They throw the ball more (1st) and complete passes at a higher rate (3rd). They are tied for 4th in average air yards per attempt at 4.2.

    I agree that they were able to put up the crazy numbers that they have in part due to playing kraeptastic defenses but make no mistake, they're really good. In watching some of their games it was clear that they got a lot of yards on bad tackling but even if Manning can complete passes for 4.2 Y/A at a 68% clip, they're going to score. They averaged something like 8.3 Y/A this season (on 659 attempts)!

    That said, we're still going to kick their teeth in.


    I could swear I saw a stat in the last few days that Denver was #1 in YAC by an easy margin. I'll see if I can turn it up.


    In total YAC, yes by something like 100 yards. But not as a percentage of total yards.

    http://wp.advancednflstats.com/airYardsStats.php

    [edit] I should point out that it's entirely possible that they average more YAC per pass as well. Doesn't mean that they're dependent on it (which was the point of my post). As a percentage of their offensive passing yards, YAC is not a crutch as they're tied for 4th in air yards per attempt.

    Hope that clears up any confusion there.
    Last edited by Laloosh on Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    RockHawk wrote:This has turned into nothing but a personal attack, which goes against our forum rules...... I'll allow it.
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  • Thanks.
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  • You seem to forget something. We aren't going to tackle them after they catch the ball. We are going to PUNISH them. (Nothing illegal, just a clean hard Hit).
    Remember the hits we have been giving the 49ers TEs (Hello Vernon Davis) and WRs? They are going to get some during this game. I 'm not trying to be mean, but I expect some of their guys to be knocked out of the game both on D and O. Lynch will punish their defenders and our defense will punish their receivers.

    MizzouHawkGal wrote:So I watched Denver all year against weak competition of which can't tackle after a 5 yard pass. Why does everyone think we completely forgot how to defend the middle and tackle?
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  • Denver averages 5.97 yards after catch per reception which places them 10th in the NFL. In contrast the Seahawks average 6.12 yards after catch per reception. That places the Seahawks as 5th in the NFL. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... tics/2013/
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  • rigelian wrote:Denver averages 5.97 yards after catch per reception which places them 10th in the NFL. In contrast the Seahawks average 6.12 yards after catch per reception. That places the Seahawks as 5th in the NFL. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... tics/2013/


    Yeah, sometimes people forget that having the highest yardage in a category like that can easily have more to do with volume than with results on individual plays.

    Thanks for the post. Hadn't come across that site before so now I have another spot to waste my day on. Are you aware of a site that provides stats on passing results by area of the field and yardage (short left, short middle, deep left, etc.)?
    RockHawk wrote:This has turned into nothing but a personal attack, which goes against our forum rules...... I'll allow it.
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  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:
    rigelian wrote:Denver averages 5.97 yards after catch per reception which places them 10th in the NFL. In contrast the Seahawks average 6.12 yards after catch per reception. That places the Seahawks as 5th in the NFL. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... tics/2013/


    Yeah, sometimes people forget that having the highest yardage in a category like that can easily have more to do with volume than with results on individual plays.

    Thanks for the post. Hadn't come across that site before so now I have another spot to waste my day on. Are you aware of a site that provides stats on passing results by area of the field and yardage (short left, short middle, deep left, etc.)?


    Unfortunately, I've never come across a site like that. That would be a great find though.
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