Q&A w/Broncos & Seahawks Fans -- Super Bowl Preview ...

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  • Hawkscanner wrote:Just an in general note that I mentioned earlier in this thread ...

    This Seahawks coaching staff has a truly remarkable ability to game plan.


    I absolutely agree here, and whilst the staff gets criticised for not adjusting early and countering the opposition, I've seen them come out and dominate the second half so many times that I personally believe they stick to a rigid gameplan in the first half, work out how to adjust to what the other team is doing, then wait until the second half to actually implement their new gameplan - at this point the opposition no longer has a 15 minute half time break to make adjustments and communicate to the players, and now the opposition has to adjust on the fly.

    Not to mention of course the fact that the team plays so physically that waiting until the second half to make adjustments against tired players is always going to pay dividends
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  • broncos1997 wrote:1) A lot is being said about the hawk's "physical" and disruptive secondary. Do you expect this to be more advantageous versus small quick receivers or the large, physical variety? It's been well documented that Manning has had major issues with good press coverage defenses. However, that was mostly back in his Colt days with the likes of Harrison and Wayne running around. I can't quite decide whether having the generally more physical receivers he has in Denver will lessen or worsen the effect.


    Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.
    Not a valid comparison imo cos a WR is only as good as their surrounding corps and QB throwing to them, i.e. Stafford+Megatron is nowhere near Manning+DT.

    Denvers offense is made up of 11 guys: Manning + O-line + Rcvrs, with each playing a key roles. e.g. if the O-line was poor and manning was always pressured, it wouldnt matter much how good the WRs are as Manning wouldnt have the time to throw to them. The best thing about our WRs is not just their talent but their versatility and the diversity of ways they can attack a defense. Add manning, who is the best at getting his offense in the right play and you have an offensive juggernaut.

    Similarly for Seahawk defense, the secondary gives the pass rush time to get home, while the pass rush helps make the secondary life easier by making the QB uncomfortable. Without the pressure, a good QB + WRs would shred seahawk (or any secondary) as you cannot cover a good receiver indefinitely.

    It is silly to compare this matchup to any previous opponent either team as seen. Neither team has seen anything like they will be facing on Sunday and that is what makes this SB so attractive.
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  • Omaha wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.
    Not a valid comparison imo cos a WR is only as good as their surrounding corps and QB throwing to them, i.e. Stafford+Megatron is nowhere near Manning+DT.


    Calvin Johnson - 84 Receptions, 1,492 yards, 12 TD
    DT - 92 receptions, 1,430 yards, 14 TD
    Stafford+Megatron and Manning+DT seem pretty even to me.
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  • IcedHawk wrote:
    Omaha wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.
    Not a valid comparison imo cos a WR is only as good as their surrounding corps and QB throwing to them, i.e. Stafford+Megatron is nowhere near Manning+DT.


    Calvin Johnson - 84 Receptions, 1,492 yards, 12 TD
    DT - 92 receptions, 1,430 yards, 14 TD
    Stafford+Megatron and Manning+DT seem pretty even to me.


    I think it's also a fair comparison because we do not roll coverage to any one receiver, nor do we have our top corner match up to any particular receiver. Megatron was not played solely by Sherman. Our defense is able to get physical with bigger receivers.

    Does Denver having multiple offensive weapons make this match-up more difficult? Of course. But it is fair to say that we have matched up quite well with these types of receivers (and TEs) during the course of the season.
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:
    broncos1997 wrote:1) A lot is being said about the hawk's "physical" and disruptive secondary. Do you expect this to be more advantageous versus small quick receivers or the large, physical variety? It's been well documented that Manning has had major issues with good press coverage defenses. However, that was mostly back in his Colt days with the likes of Harrison and Wayne running around. I can't quite decide whether having the generally more physical receivers he has in Denver will lessen or worsen the effect.


    Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.


    Well, to be completely fair Seattle DID hold Percy Harvin to a grand total of just 2 catches and 10 yards when they faced the Vikings last year. ;)

    From what I can see, outside of Demaryius Thomas, I don't see this receiving group having another real fast, quick burner that could make things problematic for Seattle.

    I honestly believe that the Seahawks defensive backs will match up very well against Denver's WR's. And not just on the outside with Sherman and Maxwell either. Walter Thurmond is a great cover corner and has done a fantastic job in the slot this year, allowing a Passer Rating Against of just 67.4 -- among the league leaders. I don't believe that most of the slot corners Welker usually faces have anywhere close to the coverage ability that Thurmond has. And if the Seahawks decide to go dime and bring in Jeremy Lane, he's been phenomenal as well, sporting a Passer Rating Against of just 56.3.

    Kam Chancellor and the Seahawks Linebackers -- have been great in coverage as well, shutting down some of the best TE's in the game.

    And for those fast guys who do break free -- the omnipresent, lightning fast Earl Thomas is a real equalizer who makes a lot of plays back there.

    YES, Denver's Offense gives teams fits because they have so many weapons. Most times, Peyton Manning can pick out and pick on the weak, old, slow buffalo in the herd and exploits the defense accordingly. Seattle is a bit unique in that they honestly don't have a whole lot of true weak links that can generally get exploited, as they have a lot of thoroughbreds who can hang in there with the big boys.

    Omaha wrote:It is silly to compare this matchup to any previous opponent either team as seen. Neither team has seen anything like they will be facing on Sunday and that is what makes this SB so attractive.


    On that, we can most certainly agree. I've been looking forward to seeing this matchup all season long. It should be fun. I can't wait.


    By the way, I've kind of slacked a bit for the past couple of days on this thread because I've been finishing up my extensive Super Bowl Preview. Let me know what you guys think ...

    Super Bowl XLVIII -- Seahawks-Broncos Game Preview ... 5 Keys to a Seahawks Victory ...
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  • coach78 wrote:
    IcedHawk wrote:
    Omaha wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Seattle is built to stop a WR corp like Denver, because they own big guys - even shut down Megatron.

    Guys like Welker who don't have high end speed? They can get into trouble as you see here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7BL3V5KhA -- OUCH!

    It's the small, fast guys -- like TY Hilton, Titus Young, and dare I say, Percy Harvin, who can light them up.
    Not a valid comparison imo cos a WR is only as good as their surrounding corps and QB throwing to them, i.e. Stafford+Megatron is nowhere near Manning+DT.


    Calvin Johnson - 84 Receptions, 1,492 yards, 12 TD
    DT - 92 receptions, 1,430 yards, 14 TD
    Stafford+Megatron and Manning+DT seem pretty even to me.


    I think it's also a fair comparison because we do not roll coverage to any one receiver, nor do we have our top corner match up to any particular receiver. Megatron was not played solely by Sherman. Our defense is able to get physical with bigger receivers.

    Does Denver having multiple offensive weapons make this match-up more difficult? Of course. But it is fair to say that we have matched up quite well with these types of receivers (and TEs) during the course of the season.


    I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?
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  • coach78 wrote:
    IcedHawk wrote:Calvin Johnson - 84 Receptions, 1,492 yards, 12 TD
    DT - 92 receptions, 1,430 yards, 14 TD
    Stafford+Megatron and Manning+DT seem pretty even to me.


    I think it's also a fair comparison because we do not roll coverage to any one receiver, nor do we have our top corner match up to any particular receiver. Megatron was not played solely by Sherman. Our defense is able to get physical with bigger receivers.

    Does Denver having multiple offensive weapons make this match-up more difficult? Of course. But it is fair to say that we have matched up quite well with these types of receivers (and TEs) during the course of the season.

    Megatron>DT while Manning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stafford. Not even close cos stafford is crap imo. Alshon Jeffery sand Garcon are two other WR with number close to Megatron and DT and they are clearly not in the same class as Megatron and DT.

    There are so many things stats dont show, starting from the play call which dictates the route. The numbers put up by Megatron are evidence f his quality. Give that guy to Manning and denver could have scored 700pts+ this season. OT: Megatron need to leave that waste of a team called Detroit and move to a better team (except Pats).

    If you think manning is just going to be sending DT on 7-9 routes and throwing jump balls like Stafford does with Megatron, then you have something else coming. Covering Manning+DT is several orders of magnitude more difficult than covering Stafford+Megatron.
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  • Eldorado wrote:
    I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?


    The only time Sherman followed a receiver was game 2 vs San Francisco. They only had 1 receiver (Boldin) and we were down our normal starter on the other side (Browner). He normally stays on the defensive left.
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  • Eldorado wrote:I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?


    I would have no qualms. Remember that our third CB is Thurman and our fourth is Lane and both are very nearly as good as Sherman and Maxwell (and in fact Thurman has started and so has Lane). Graham is probably the best receiving TE in the entire NFL and Seattle had no trouble shutting him down both teams he faced us.

    By and large Sherman doesn't shift around. Neither does Maxwell (the week 2 San Fran game being the exception since San Fran that week had only one good receiver....Boldin). The motto of this defense is "You have to deal with us" and they mean it. You'll get press cover-3 or single-high safety. There is very little deception (other than the usual) or trickery. It's not possible for Peyton to beat this defense pre-snap because this defense doesn't typically adjust pre-snap. You get what you get (and it's almost impossible to see the difference between single-high safety and cover-3 pre-snap).
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  • Broncos fan here...

    Peyton typically struggles the most against defenses that do a lot of disguising of coverages, like NE, SD, and ATL last season. Seattle's secondary certainly has a lot of talent though, so it will be interesting to see it play out.

    What I'm wondering is how Seattle will deal with the up tempo while they are on defense. I know that they like rotating DL a lot, but Peyton won't allow that.

    If Seattle is going to be stuck with a single personnel grouping for an entire drive, which 11 do you think they'll go with, assuming DEN comes out with 3 WR and 1 TE?
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  • Polaris wrote:
    Eldorado wrote:I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?


    I would have no qualms. Remember that our third CB is Thurman and our fourth is Lane and both are very nearly as good as Sherman and Maxwell (and in fact Thurman has started and so has Lane). Graham is probably the best receiving TE in the entire NFL and Seattle had no trouble shutting him down both teams he faced us.

    By and large Sherman doesn't shift around. Neither does Maxwell (the week 2 San Fran game being the exception since San Fran that week had only one good receiver....Boldin). The motto of this defense is "You have to deal with us" and they mean it. You'll get press cover-3 or single-high safety. There is very little deception (other than the usual) or trickery. It's not possible for Peyton to beat this defense pre-snap because this defense doesn't typically adjust pre-snap. You get what you get (and it's almost impossible to see the difference between single-high safety and cover-3 pre-snap).
    Do you mean cover 1 vs cover 3? In my understanding (and someone correct if am wrong) single-high safety is an alignment while cover-3 is a coverage scheme. You can play both cover-1 (man coverage) and cover-3 (zone coverage) from a single-high safety alignment. but your alignment (and likely coverage) will depend on the offense personnel and alignments.
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  • Omaha wrote:
    Polaris wrote:
    Eldorado wrote:I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?


    I would have no qualms. Remember that our third CB is Thurman and our fourth is Lane and both are very nearly as good as Sherman and Maxwell (and in fact Thurman has started and so has Lane). Graham is probably the best receiving TE in the entire NFL and Seattle had no trouble shutting him down both teams he faced us.

    By and large Sherman doesn't shift around. Neither does Maxwell (the week 2 San Fran game being the exception since San Fran that week had only one good receiver....Boldin). The motto of this defense is "You have to deal with us" and they mean it. You'll get press cover-3 or single-high safety. There is very little deception (other than the usual) or trickery. It's not possible for Peyton to beat this defense pre-snap because this defense doesn't typically adjust pre-snap. You get what you get (and it's almost impossible to see the difference between single-high safety and cover-3 pre-snap).
    Do you mean cover 1 vs cover 3? In my understanding (and someone correct if am wrong) single-high safety is an alignment while cover-3 is a coverage scheme. You can play both cover-1 (man coverage) and cover-3 (zone coverage) from a single-high safety alignment. but your alignment (and likely coverage) will depend on the offense personnel and alignments.


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  • Omaha wrote:
    Polaris wrote:
    Eldorado wrote:I agree with bold. In the ace set against your nickle (which is going to be like 80% of the game), you guys can tie up DT Decker and JT. Welker is harder, but do I honestly want the balance of the game resting in his hands? eesh. The one thing that bugs me about that though is the rumor that you guys don't move sherman off the LCB. Is that true? Can you come up with an example of that not being the case?


    I would have no qualms. Remember that our third CB is Thurman and our fourth is Lane and both are very nearly as good as Sherman and Maxwell (and in fact Thurman has started and so has Lane). Graham is probably the best receiving TE in the entire NFL and Seattle had no trouble shutting him down both teams he faced us.

    By and large Sherman doesn't shift around. Neither does Maxwell (the week 2 San Fran game being the exception since San Fran that week had only one good receiver....Boldin). The motto of this defense is "You have to deal with us" and they mean it. You'll get press cover-3 or single-high safety. There is very little deception (other than the usual) or trickery. It's not possible for Peyton to beat this defense pre-snap because this defense doesn't typically adjust pre-snap. You get what you get (and it's almost impossible to see the difference between single-high safety and cover-3 pre-snap).
    Do you mean cover 1 vs cover 3? In my understanding (and someone correct if am wrong) single-high safety is an alignment while cover-3 is a coverage scheme. You can play both cover-1 (man coverage) and cover-3 (zone coverage) from a single-high safety alignment. but your alignment (and likely coverage) will depend on the offense personnel and alignments.

    You are correct that single high could be either cover 1 or 3. It would be difficult to tell the difference between them presnap without some sort of motion. The formation does not dictate which coverage you are in.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    johntfootball wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:
    johntfootball wrote:
    Just my opinion, but highly doubt you are going to keep Denver from scoring a minimum of 23-24 points.

    Our lowest point scoring game was the SD game with 20 points and that I will chalk up to one of those wierd divisional Thurs games.


    The 24-26 point mark will lose you the game, and quite frankly, you're unlikely to get there. Here's why:

    First, Seattle opponents average about 65% of their customary scoring output. That puts Denver at around 21 points. Now you're thinking that Denver has the best offense ever, so there's no way. (Hence your 20 point disclaimer.) This is where I can draw from experience and tell you why your optimism is misguided.

    I'm a Ducks fan. Oregon is well known for it's record setting offense, the QBs and the many offensive weapons and running backs. Great offensive line that gets its members drafted into the NFL. Impossible to stop.

    Until they come up against Stanford and LSU. Big, fast, physical defenses that stop the blur offense cold. Destroy passing lanes and running lanes and cutbacks. By the end, the Oregon offense is so out of rhythm, we just want the game to end. This is your team against the Seattle defense. You think the AFC can bring it, but they can't. You might see the SF-Sea game and think your team plays that fast and hard. They don't.

    This is your reality, and when it's happening on the field, remember what the Ducks' fan told you. Receivers will drop passes, Manning will dump off passes that kill your RB, and Seattle will make your fans curse their offense for beating up on bad teams and showing poorly against real ones.

    College and pro comparisons are stupid IMO, but im not going to sit and argue about that.

    Denvers average points per game is 37.87 points per game for a total of 606 points for the season.

    that would give denver 24.61 points assuming your 65% theory is correct. (37.87 * .65)
    Seattle hasn't even played a top ten offensive scoring team this year. The best scoring team you have played is New Orleans who is 10th best.

    How do you REALLY know how well you can do with the #1 offense?

    Another issue.
    You guys are extremely good in your stadium with the 12th man. Being in your stadium gives you an advantage.
    There will be more Bronco fans in the SB than Seattle fans.


    You are correct about the number. I had 34.8 in my head for some reason.

    However, my comparison is not stupid, because your team has had a steady, downward slope of scoring in the playoffs. However, a Broncos fan should also remember that the 2007 Patriots only scored 14 points in the Super Bowl. That team was every bit as potent as your offense, and they didn't play a defense for the ages.


    Don't ever tell my opinion is stupid you dumb bastard. I TOLD YOU.
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  • It's to bad we were on the wrong end of another one of the least memorable Super Bowls in history, but it is what it is. The better team won by a mile. Congratulations on your first Lombardi.
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  • Polaris wrote:

    That isn't really true. Of course both sides will have signals and communicate, and of course there is some strategy involved on both sides, but that isn't what we're talking about. The comment was blithely made that if Peyton sees a screen won't work, he'll audible out of it. The problem with that statement is that assumes Peyton will see a screen won't work because he sees a bad defensive scheme that prevents it.

    That's not how Seattle's D works. The problem with Seattle is that Seattle is the league leader in both defensing screen passes AND yards-after-catch as well, and the two are completely related and based on the athleticism and discipline of Seattle's linebackers....and based on the fact that Seattle puts an extra man in the box very frequently but blitzes very infrequently. This isn't a matter of a chess match. It's a matter of beating the men and the defense, yes or no.

    For all the strategy involved, Football fundamentally isn't chess. It's about players making plays, and Seattle's defense isn't predicated on beating oppoents with scheme. Instead it's about making a couple of extremely good schemes (for the personelle) work to their maximum effectiveness with raw ability and skill. There's not much Peyton can do about that.



    You were right.

    http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=114391

    Congrats. Hope to see you next year.
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  • Eldorado wrote:
    Polaris wrote:

    That isn't really true. Of course both sides will have signals and communicate, and of course there is some strategy involved on both sides, but that isn't what we're talking about. The comment was blithely made that if Peyton sees a screen won't work, he'll audible out of it. The problem with that statement is that assumes Peyton will see a screen won't work because he sees a bad defensive scheme that prevents it.

    That's not how Seattle's D works. The problem with Seattle is that Seattle is the league leader in both defensing screen passes AND yards-after-catch as well, and the two are completely related and based on the athleticism and discipline of Seattle's linebackers....and based on the fact that Seattle puts an extra man in the box very frequently but blitzes very infrequently. This isn't a matter of a chess match. It's a matter of beating the men and the defense, yes or no.

    For all the strategy involved, Football fundamentally isn't chess. It's about players making plays, and Seattle's defense isn't predicated on beating oppoents with scheme. Instead it's about making a couple of extremely good schemes (for the personelle) work to their maximum effectiveness with raw ability and skill. There's not much Peyton can do about that.



    You were right.

    http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=114391

    Congrats. Hope to see you next year.


    Thank you. It takes character to come back and admit this, and I appreciate it. Have a good off-season and see you next year. (I believe we'll meet in the regular season....so our teams will meet each other then).

    Yes I think I speak for all Seahawk fans when I say I fully intend to enjoy it :D It's been a long time coming, and hopefully it will be the first of many (hey set our goals high!)

    Srsly though, thanks for the reply. It shows class.
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