Evaluating a .NET policy on selling Tickets

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

For those who aren't aware, there is a policy which is enforced by our moderators which states that we are unable to advertise selling tickets for over face value.

I am grieved by the policy for a few reasons. Logically, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
1) "There are other sights for selling over and above face value" was one of the arguments. Sure, there's Stubhub, NFL ticket exchange, and others alike. Most of them charge 15-25% fee cumulative for buyer and seller. This is a percentage that could go towards selling them cheaper to a Seahawks fan. IE. If the tickets would sell for $1000.00 market value on stub hub. A Seahawks .net could buy them for $750 and the seller would net the same.

2) By forcing tickets on to stub hub for those of us who aren't keen on losing thousands..yes thousands.. on selling highly sought after seats for face value, you give opposition fans the ability to buy those same tickets when they could have gone to a Seahawks fan.

Given that I am a season ticket holder living outside of Seattle, I'm not able to make it to all of the games. I also paid a hefty, hefty fee to acquire a seat license. The fact of the matter is that there is a scarcity of tickets for Seahawks games- they are obviously wildly popular. To sell my seats (6th row, charter, seahawks sideline) for face value is essentially losing money based on market value and what I paid for the CSLs.

Motion to equitably re-evaluate the purpose of this policy, respectfully.

IBleedBlueAndGreen · Jan 7, 2014

As a season ticket holder, I have zero problems with the .NET policy on selling tickets higher than face value. In fact, it pisses me off when people buy season tickets for the purpose of selling them for a profit. There are literally thousands..yes thousands..of people on the waiting list that are wanting to add season tickets but cannot because there are others that have those seats for the purpose of profit. The two seats directly next to me are owned by a guy in St. Louis who has never been to a game in the seven years he has "owned" those seats. He purchases them and sells them on eBay.

I can kind of see the OPs side of things, but don't really sympathize with him. There was nobody that forced you to purchase season tickets, and certainly not a charter seat license. That was your choice. I fully back the current policy.

grizbob · Jan 7, 2014

Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

IBleedBlueAndGreen":2wewfa52 said:
As a season ticket holder, I have zero problems with the .NET policy on selling tickets higher than face value. In fact, it pisses me off when people buy season tickets for the purpose of selling them for a profit. There are literally thousands..yes thousands..of people on the waiting list that are wanting to add season tickets but cannot because there are others that have those seats for the purpose of profit. The two seats directly next to me are owned by a guy in St. Louis who has never been to a game in the seven years he has "owned" those seats. He purchases them and sells them on eBay.

I can kind of see the OPs side of things, but don't really sympathize with him. There was nobody that forced you to purchase season tickets, and certainly not a charter seat license. That was your choice. I fully back the current policy.

If you could take my personal situation out of it, that would probably be better. Not that I owe an explanation, but I do attend some of the games, I'm just not able to attend ALL of the game given my work schedule and proximity to Seattle (in Canada). You're right, no one forced me to buy them, but I love the team, love going to games, and really wanted to see an NFCC game in Seattle.

Anyways, back to the merits of your argument, I don't see many. Perhaps you could weigh the pros and cons of each? I tried to list the cons, but I don't see what the pro is? If no one ever sells them for face value, why do we have the policy? Sure, I had row RR in the corner of the upper deck, it wouldn't be as difficult to swallow a few hundred dollars. The fact is, if we were to evaluate this policy, it means better, cheaper seats for Seahawks fans with less money going to the big ticket resale sights.

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

grizbob":3gjj6qi9 said:
Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

Which brings up the fee part of the equation, but certainly other fans can still access them. Classified forum still only allows face value sales.

Basis4day · Jan 7, 2014

The mods have their reasons for not allowing it, even if they don't spell every reason out. I don't think that automatically make the policy not make sense.
I can think of quite a few reasons off the top of my head why they wouldn't allow it. They have been contacted my attorneys because people post entire articles from other sites like ESPN insider. Now you're getting into economic transactions of thousands of dollars (Not to mention taxes).

You can still make a profit through stubhub and ticket exchange. The cost is worth it to know you're not going to get ripped off and are good to go with sales taxes and the like.

There is always craig's list or reddit.

grizbob · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":2ka7e2p4 said:
grizbob":2ka7e2p4 said:

Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

Click to expand...

Which brings up the fee part of the equation, but certainly other fans can still access them. Classified forum still only allows face value sales.

There's still PMs

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

Basis4day":2gsragi7 said:
The mods have their reasons for not allowing it, even if they don't spell every reason out. I don't think that automatically make the policy not make sense.
I can think of quite a few reasons off the top of my head why they wouldn't allow it. They have been contacted my attorneys because people post entire articles from other sites like ESPN insider. Now you're getting into economic transactions of thousands of dollars (Not to mention taxes).

You can still make a profit through stubhub and ticket exchange. The cost is worth it to know you're not going to get ripped off and are good to go with sales taxes and the like.

There is always craig's list or reddit.

I see your point of view, but a classifieds section isn't considered to be legally responsible for or characterized as an agent for transferring money. If so, craiglist would not exist. Reasonable disclaimers could easily solve this, if it was an issue in the first place.

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

grizbob":2pjybk5l said:
lukerguy":2pjybk5l said:

grizbob":2pjybk5l said:

Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

Click to expand...

Which brings up the fee part of the equation, but certainly other fans can still access them. Classified forum still only allows face value sales.

Click to expand...

There's still PMs

I was trying to communicate with an individual interested in my tickets a few weeks ago, and they just sat in my outbox, never sent. I couldn't tell whether or not a moderator had filtered it because the gentleman didn't receive it, ever.

KitsapGuy · Jan 7, 2014

You can always email the admins directly without airing this on the public forum. There is also a rule for that.

Basis4day · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":2w1fnk45 said:
Basis4day":2w1fnk45 said:

The mods have their reasons for not allowing it, even if they don't spell every reason out. I don't think that automatically make the policy not make sense.
I can think of quite a few reasons off the top of my head why they wouldn't allow it. They have been contacted my attorneys because people post entire articles from other sites like ESPN insider. Now you're getting into economic transactions of thousands of dollars (Not to mention taxes).

You can still make a profit through stubhub and ticket exchange. The cost is worth it to know you're not going to get ripped off and are good to go with sales taxes and the like.

There is always craig's list or reddit.

Click to expand...

I see your point of view, but a classifieds section isn't considered to be legally responsible for or characterized as an agent for transferring money. If so, craiglist would not exist. Reasonable disclaimers could easily solve this, if it was an issue in the first place.

Classified Sites like craig's list had to pay attorneys to draft their disclaimers.. I don't think they want it tested in court. People will threaten to sue over anything. Mods don't charge anyone for use of this site and i think it's fair that we not ask them to get involved in for profit transactions on our behalf.

If you PM a mod, i'm sure they'll explain the full policy to you if you want to know all the reasons.

Basis4day · Jan 7, 2014

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/misc/3730.shtml

Check this out as an example of the issues the mods would need to get involved in if they allowed ticket sales for profit.

Sarlacc83 · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":aqbjp2t7 said:
grizbob":aqbjp2t7 said:

lukerguy":aqbjp2t7 said:

grizbob":aqbjp2t7 said:

Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

Click to expand...

Which brings up the fee part of the equation, but certainly other fans can still access them. Classified forum still only allows face value sales.

Click to expand...

There's still PMs

Click to expand...

I was trying to communicate with an individual interested in my tickets a few weeks ago, and they just sat in my outbox, never sent. I couldn't tell whether or not a moderator had filtered it because the gentleman didn't receive it, ever.

It means that he never checked his email.

Also, did you really expect to find sympathy your desire to make money on your tickets on a forum which is ostensibly a family? Or does it hurt so much to be even slightly generous by not marking up your product?

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

Sarlacc83":g0vhysxd said:
It means that he never checked his email.

Also, did you really expect to find sympathy your desire to make money on your tickets on a forum which is ostensibly a family? Or does it hurt so much to be even slightly generous by not marking up your product?

Desire isn't to make money, simply not lose money. I paid $12,000 for 3 CSLs for excellent seats. I appreciate your tone though.

Sarlacc83 · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":1jnbriek said:
Sarlacc83":1jnbriek said:

It means that he never checked his email.

Also, did you really expect to find sympathy your desire to make money on your tickets on a forum which is ostensibly a family? Or does it hurt so much to be even slightly generous by not marking up your product?

Click to expand...

Desire isn't to make money, simply not lose money. I paid $12,000 for 3 CSLs for excellent seats. I appreciate your tone though.

See, now, this goes to show that problem is not the board. It's you. Your problem here is that you're trying to make back that CSL money that's more than most people care to afford. You made the decision to get the seats, so now you should swallow it instead of being cheap ESPECIALLY since you can't make the games by your own choice. Or is that too obvious of a solution other than trying to get it back from people on the forum? If you're desire is to make back that money, go to Stubhub rather than pretending your doing people a favor by discounting tickets by 25% to $750.

3Girls'HawkDad · Jan 7, 2014

You paid $12000 in addition to the cost of seats, that I am assuming are pretty nice and pricey.

Then you have enough money. You are fine.

Laloosh · Jan 7, 2014

I don't have a dog in this fight. I can see where you're coming from, Luker. I just don't think that it's realistic for you to expect .NET to incur any risk that may come with allowing the sale of tickets for profit (or loss prevention?).

Perhaps one of the mods can weigh in or handle this with Luker 1:1 so it doesn't turn into a mud slinging contest?

lukerguy · Jan 7, 2014

Sarlacc83":3irjwm7y said:
lukerguy":3irjwm7y said:

Sarlacc83":3irjwm7y said:

It means that he never checked his email.

Also, did you really expect to find sympathy your desire to make money on your tickets on a forum which is ostensibly a family? Or does it hurt so much to be even slightly generous by not marking up your product?

Click to expand...

Desire isn't to make money, simply not lose money. I paid $12,000 for 3 CSLs for excellent seats. I appreciate your tone though.

Click to expand...

See, now, this goes to show that problem is not the board. It's you. Your problem here is that you're trying to make back that CSL money that's more than most people care to afford. You made the decision to get the seats, so now you should swallow it instead of being cheap ESPECIALLY since you can't make the games by your own choice. Or is that too obvious of a solution other than trying to get it back from people on the forum? If you're desire is to make back that money, go to Stubhub rather than pretending your doing people a favor by discounting tickets by 25% to $750.

To be quite honest, I don't appreciate your tone, or the way you are twisting my intentions, and I guarantee you wouldn't speak to me this way in person.

1) Don't call me cheap. I give more every year to charity and benevolent funds than you make annually.
2) You are making this a personal attack on my situation. Perhaps I should have left my situation out of it, but I didn't want people to think selling my tickets for profit was the reason for me buying the CSLs. I bought the CSL to attend the games. I was merely trying to sell them for what they are worth. My seats aren't worth $120 dollars based upon scarcity.
3) You don't know the reasons why I am unable to make the game. Please don't assume you do.
4) If we look at the merits of your arguments, I don't see any. I'm trying hash out the pros and cons of allowing tickets to be sold over face value and at true value. There are some CLEAR advantages to it.
5) I'm not pretending to anyone a favor. However, there are members who do purchase tickets on stubhub. And If I'm not interested in increasing my net amount made on the tickets (which I'm not), Then there is the possibility of moving tickets off of Stub Hub and on to .Net for cheaper for everyone alike.
If someone said, "Legally we cannot allow it", I would easily appreciate the feedback and that would be the end of the open conversation. If it's "We're a family, and we don't do that to family." Then I think there are some excellent points to why it may be a good idea as I noted in the OP.

AbsolutNET · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":15pm95qu said:
grizbob":15pm95qu said:

lukerguy":15pm95qu said:

grizbob":15pm95qu said:

Classified forum, Craigslist, eBay. :roll:

Click to expand...

Which brings up the fee part of the equation, but certainly other fans can still access them. Classified forum still only allows face value sales.

Click to expand...

There's still PMs

Click to expand...

I was trying to communicate with an individual interested in my tickets a few weeks ago, and they just sat in my outbox, never sent. I couldn't tell whether or not a moderator had filtered it because the gentleman didn't receive it, ever.

No need for a tinfoil cap.

Sarlacc83 · Jan 7, 2014

lukerguy":3qzmnuh2 said:
Sarlacc83":3qzmnuh2 said:

lukerguy":3qzmnuh2 said:

Sarlacc83":3qzmnuh2 said:

It means that he never checked his email.

Also, did you really expect to find sympathy your desire to make money on your tickets on a forum which is ostensibly a family? Or does it hurt so much to be even slightly generous by not marking up your product?

Click to expand...

Desire isn't to make money, simply not lose money. I paid $12,000 for 3 CSLs for excellent seats. I appreciate your tone though.

Click to expand...

See, now, this goes to show that problem is not the board. It's you. Your problem here is that you're trying to make back that CSL money that's more than most people care to afford. You made the decision to get the seats, so now you should swallow it instead of being cheap ESPECIALLY since you can't make the games by your own choice. Or is that too obvious of a solution other than trying to get it back from people on the forum? If you're desire is to make back that money, go to Stubhub rather than pretending your doing people a favor by discounting tickets by 25% to $750.

Click to expand...

To be quite honest, I don't appreciate your tone, or the way you are twisting my intentions, and I guarantee you wouldn't speak to me this way in person.

1) Don't call me cheap. I give more every year to charity and benevolent funds than you make annually.
2) You are making this a personal attack on my situation. Perhaps I should have left my situation out of it, but I didn't want people to think selling my tickets for profit was the reason for me buying the CSLs. I bought the CSL to attend the games. I was merely trying to sell them for what they are worth. My seats aren't worth $120 dollars based upon scarcity.
3) You don't know the reasons why I am unable to make the game. Please don't assume you do.
4) If we look at the merits of your arguments, I don't see any. I'm trying hash out the pros and cons of allowing tickets to be sold over face value and at true value. There are some CLEAR advantages to it.
5) I'm not pretending to anyone a favor. However, there are members who do purchase tickets on stubhub. And If I'm not interested in increasing my net amount made on the tickets (which I'm not), Then there is the possibility of moving tickets off of Stub Hub and on to .Net for cheaper for everyone alike.
If someone said, "Legally we cannot allow it", I would easily appreciate the feedback and that would be the end of the open conversation. If it's "We're a family, and we don't do that to family." Then I think there are some excellent points to why it may be a good idea as I noted in the OP.

It's funny that you put 1 down, because it clearly shows that you ARE being really cheap. If you're pulling down more than my wife and I are (a nurse and engineer respectively), then you must have millions, which means you're profiteering for what...5000 dollars a year per seat when you're giving well over six figures away a year? Or did you pull that excuse out because it's supposed to somehow shed the action of selling your tickets for scalp-value in a new light? You honestly think it makes a difference? Embarrassing. Absolutely embarrassing.

You weren't trying to hash out pros and cons, you were trying to give reasons why we should turn this place into a Seahawks Stubhub and maximize what you can get from your tickets via people that you 'know'. I'm not misinterpreting your intentions; I'm showing you exactly what you're doing. If I had your kind of 'cash', I wouldn't even have brought this up. Instead, I'd do what my friend does and gives away the tickets he's not using. If you're so generous as you say, maybe you should try it, too.

Evaluating a .NET policy on selling Tickets

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