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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:36 am 
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Because he doesn't deserve it. For whatever reason. This isn't Holmgren's Seahawks. Pete has shown a commitment to playing whoever can help this team win, when they deserve to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:41 am 
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Smellyman wrote:
it is frustrating that we lament the fact we need game breakers who threaten a D and desperately want to see harvin, have a guy on the bench who does just that.


1. When you have one of the best backs in the league like Lynch, it's hard to not give him touches for an unproven rookie.

2. Michael still has to learn pass protection. It's not as easy as just saying "He's exciting, let's get him in the game." He has a lot of responsibility other than just carrying the rock. Until he's got all that down, Pete isn't going to play him...........especially when he has two backs that know what they're doing ahead of him.

Michael is more than likely the back of the future, but that's not for another 2-3 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:44 am 
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COMPete baby.

He has to earn the playing time over others at his position.

He obviously hasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:46 am 
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I would like to see Michael given a chance on kickoff and maybe punt returns, it seems his speed and toughness would translate well to those roles. He's got the quickness of Leon, but he's bigger.

But maybe Pete doesn't trust him, who knows. But if he's going to see the field, it seems logical that it'd be in that role.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:47 am 
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http://www.nfl.com/player/christinemichael/2539322/profile

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster/Christine-Michael/410dee6f-25e3-4122-9636-b1ab0acbcb54

It's really not that difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:55 am 
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Smellyman wrote:
it is frustrating that we lament the fact we need game breakers who threaten a D and desperately want to see harvin, have a guy on the bench who does just that.

A few packages and plays per game would be nice


don't be silly. Michael hasn't shown anything yet. People get way to carried away with preseason performance. The fact is he's had 9 carries against the worst team in the NFL and is average just 4.1 yards a carry.

The guy isn't some electric player, if he was he'd be playing more. They would find ways to get him the ball. The fact that they haven't is telling. He just isn't ready to be a major contributor yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:56 am 
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I just think he has to win playing time. Hard to get on the field with those two guys ahead of him.

Not to mention, I think he's the future after Lynch so they're probably bringing him along slowly and making sure he knows the mental side of his position before putting him out there to learn on the job.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:04 am 
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I understand being intoxicated with what this kid can do, but at the risk of appealing to authority, I trust Pete to do right by Michael. Golden Tate was a talented dude too, but didn't get how to be a professional and how to run routes. It took him time, why should we assume CM won't take time? CM has documented issues with his college coaching staff, perhaps he is learning as much about life right now as he is about football. Or not learning, which could also be the explanation for his lack of time.

Brandon Browner got benched for not playing within the frame of the defense. The limited bit we have seen CM suggests he doesn't play well in the frame of the offense, ignoring the one cut to look for the bigger play.

What is so hard to understand about not trusting the rook?

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:19 am 
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Honestly I think the reason everybody expected to see more of him right out of the gate was simply due to what we did last year starting all the rookies. This year practically the only rookie starters are due to injuries.

I would still love to see Bevell throw a few plays together with Cmike and Percy Harvin in at the same time. No one would have film on them and it could be stunning. Imagine a wishbone with Lynch, Mrob and CMike and then Harvin and Tate as the wideouts! How the hell would you defend that?

Gotta be patient.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:31 am 
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Who knows? When we're ahead 60 points Monday against the Lambs and need to drain the clock, maybe Beast and Turbo will get tired and Michael will get some carries!

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:36 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I understand being intoxicated with what this kid can do, but at the risk of appealing to authority, I trust Pete to do right by Michael. Golden Tate was a talented dude too, but didn't get how to be a professional and how to run routes. It took him time, why should we assume CM won't take time? CM has documented issues with his college coaching staff, perhaps he is learning as much about life right now as he is about football. Or not learning, which could also be the explanation for his lack of time.

Brandon Browner got benched for not playing within the frame of the defense. The limited bit we have seen CM suggests he doesn't play well in the frame of the offense, ignoring the one cut to look for the bigger play.

What is so hard to understand about not trusting the rook?



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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:37 am 
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ivotuk wrote:
Why would anyone want ot start an inexperienced rookie behind this line? You think Marshawn is having fumble problems? Put Michael in there and see what you get, well besides him getting your franchise QB killed.

I never understand why people bemoan the fact that an untested rookie is not playing and seem to think he will be the next big thing. In reality, those kind of moves hurt a team, not help it. Relax, Lynch and Turbin are playing well and are one of the main reasons our QB can still walk.

Go back and watch some of the blocks Marshawn and Robert make, then imagine Christine attempting those blocks and what would happen to Russell Wilson. Remember Lynch spitting up blood?

I'm guessing here, but I believe they are making their decisions based on what they are seeing in practice.


I think we need to get our argument straight.

"Why would anyone want ot start an inexperienced rookie "
Um, where in god's green earth has anyone said that they want Michael to take the starting job away from BeastMode? This is called a STRAW MAN argument, where you argue against an argument you've created out of thin air.

Regarding fumbles, why would you assume Michael fumbles more than Lynch? Lynch and even more so Tate, have a real problem with securing the ball. There is very little correlation between experience and fumbling. Some players have major issues with fumbling, some have almost zero issues with fumbling. It has to do with how the player secures the ball. If you watch Tate run for instance, he holds the ball away from his body --almost any touch and the guy will fumble. Lynch doesn't have a problem nearly as bad, but it's obvious when he is struggling for more yards, the ball tends to move away from his body and he rarely has two hands securing the ball. This is a recipe for fumbling. Christine does not struggle for yardage like Beastmode. I haven't seen enough to say whether he is a fumbler or not, but to assume he is based on his experience is nonsense.

You have a lot of "imagine" or "guess" in your post. You may be right, or you may be wrong. But there is a difference between practice and real games, and coaches are susceptible to mistakes just like any human. YOu won't see his influence unless he gets a chance.

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Smellyman wrote:
it is frustrating that we lament the fact we need game breakers who threaten a D and desperately want to see harvin, have a guy on the bench who does just that.


1. When you have one of the best backs in the league like Lynch, it's hard to not give him touches for an unproven rookie.

2. Michael still has to learn pass protection. It's not as easy as just saying "He's exciting, let's get him in the game." He has a lot of responsibility other than just carrying the rock. Until he's got all that down, Pete isn't going to play him...........especially when he has two backs that know what they're doing ahead of him.

Michael is more than likely the back of the future, but that's not for another 2-3 years.


This is a reason to give Michael some running opportunities. You have Lynch who gives 100% on every run. Players are injury prone or not, and Lynch has shown in his time with us that he is NOT (in Buffalo it was another story), but you still do not want to get to the playoffs with a 75% Lynch. You want to give him as much rest as possible. Turbin is simply too much of a drop off in capability from Lynch. Michael is definitely not. In my mind, in order to have a 100% Lynch, you want to run him as little as possible while not affecting the outcome of the game. In this scenario, I would give Michael some time.

The only argument which can be made not to give him time is that they are not comfortable with his understanding and or blocking. Which makes perfect sense. Russell is the #1 guy on this team, superbowl hopes would go up in flames if he got hurt, so if Michael increases that chance, then you don't give him time. But this is the only argument against Michael. And you can better judge once he is in their for a few snaps in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:48 am 
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plyka wrote:

The only argument which can be made not to give him time is that they are not comfortable with his understanding and or blocking. Which makes perfect sense. Russell is the #1 guy on this team, superbowl hopes would go up in flames if he got hurt, so if Michael increases that chance, then you don't give him time. But this is the only argument against Michael. And you can better judge once he is in their for a few snaps in the game.


That's not the only argument. We don't run by committee. He is the third string back. Even Leon only got carries during blowouts. This is PC's philosophy.

On top of that, you have no idea how he performs in practice, when these guys actually compete for their spot. He obviously hasn't earned his place as the number two, so why are you questioning PC? Michael will get his supposed needed game time experience when PC feels he's ready and not before then. Just because he was our first pick (at the end of the second round btw) doesn't entitled him to anything his rookie season.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:13 am 
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Michael was drafted as insurance for the 2 guys ahead of him on the depth chart and as a plan for the future. He was never intended to be a feature of this year's offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I think we can go back and forth all day long about why Pete is holding CM out. In the end, only the team knows. The camp that wants to see CM now has every right to demand as much. It's just too easy to say "CM is a 3rd string back....has trouble blocking...troubles with special team play". There's no position easier to transition from college to pro, than RB. IF after almost 3 months CM is still not ready, he was drafted WAY too high.

When we used our 1st pick on a back, most of us asked WTH? But we grew comfortable with the pick because CM was damn "near Harvin-like" in terms of explosiveness. "Just wait til you see this guy". OK, we're waiting. IF CM was as deadly as promised, they would have found a place to work him in from time to time. It's not like we have been blowing teams out week after week and again, if the concern is "games have been tight, can't risk a turnover". if that's the case, again, he was drafted WAY too high.

"We're saving him for the future". Why? Did we fear the NCAA was getting ready to ban RBs? There's never a shortage of RBs, but in 2013, we did have a shortage of top draft picks.

The argument "there are many 3rd string backs with no more carries than CM" only holds water if those backs were 1st or 2nd rounders.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:08 pm 
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hawk79 wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted, but what is going on with Michael? Why are they not using him more? Kind of surprised.


BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS PETE CARROLL AN IDIOT, BUT HE DIDN'T LIKE CHRISTINE MICHAEL ANYWAY AND ONLY PICKED HIM BECAUSE SCHNEIDER REALLY WANTED HIM AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS THE BEGINNING OF A RIFT BETWEEN CARROLL AND SCHNEIDER THAT WILL DERAIL OUR SUPER BOWL DREAMS. ALSO, CARROLL HAS IT OUT FOR MICHAEL AS AN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE HIS MOTHER.

Just kidding. Hawk79's question was totally innocent. But I do wonder sometimes what the Michael fans are looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:11 pm 
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I like Michael but there is obviously some reason he hasn't seen the field yet. I liked the kid coming out of college and think that with the right motivation he could be a #1 RB easily. But that isn't going to happen overnight and likely without injury to Lynch or Turbin I don't see it happening this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:18 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
I think we can go back and forth all day long about why Pete is holding CM out. In the end, only the team knows. The camp that wants to see CM now has every right to demand as much. It's just too easy to say "CM is a 3rd string back....has trouble blocking...troubles with special team play". There's no position easier to transition from college to pro, than RB. IF after almost 3 months CM is still not ready, he was drafted WAY too high.

When we used our 1st pick on a back, most of us asked WTH? But we grew comfortable with the pick because CM was damn "near Harvin-like" in terms of explosiveness. "Just wait til you see this guy". OK, we're waiting. IF CM was as deadly as promised, they would have found a place to work him in from time to time. It's not like we have been blowing teams out week after week and again, if the concern is "games have been tight, can't risk a turnover". if that's the case, again, he was drafted WAY too high.

"We're saving him for the future". Why? Did we fear the NCAA was getting ready to ban RBs? There's never a shortage of RBs, but in 2013, we did have a shortage of top draft picks.

The argument "there are many 3rd string backs with no more carries than CM" only holds water if those backs were 1st or 2nd rounders.

Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:26 pm 
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We should cut Beast Mode so Christine can play.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:27 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
hawk79 wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted, but what is going on with Michael? Why are they not using him more? Kind of surprised.


BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS PETE CARROLL AN IDIOT, BUT HE DIDN'T LIKE CHRISTINE MICHAEL ANYWAY AND ONLY PICKED HIM BECAUSE SCHNEIDER REALLY WANTED HIM AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS THE BEGINNING OF A RIFT BETWEEN CARROLL AND SCHNEIDER THAT WILL DERAIL OUR SUPER BOWL DREAMS. ALSO, CARROLL HAS IT OUT FOR MICHAEL AS AN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE HIS MOTHER.

Just kidding. Hawk79's question was totally innocent. But I do wonder sometimes what the Michael fans are looking for.


I think we'd all like to be Michael fans. As of today, he's a top pick not seeing playing time. Hard to be a fan of that. I figured we drafted Michael to replace ML as early as 2014 (based on salary). But I also thought he'd have this year to prep for that 1 spot. I hoped we'd figure out a way to keep Lynch and as of now, I see Lynch returning for 2014 and possibly beyond. So that's the bright spot in this for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:35 pm 
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He's a bum.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:28 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
As of today, he's a top pick not seeing playing time. Hard to be a fan of that.


This is actually common for a championship team. Once a team becomes a perennial contender, they often go into "maintenance mode" with their high picks and ease them in while the current stars wear down. They were selected with a specific role in mind, but there's no hurry to rush them into that role as there would be with a bad team. They have more wiggle room for "luxury picks".

As for Seattle - well, we could debate over whether they went into maintenance mode prematurely, but they did almost make the NFCCG last year. And RB's wear down fast. I never really raised an eyebrow at the Michael pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:40 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
As of today, he's a top pick not seeing playing time. Hard to be a fan of that.


This is actually common for a championship team. Once a team becomes a perennial contender, they often go into "maintenance mode" with their high picks and ease them in while the current stars wear down. They were selected with a specific role in mind, but there's no hurry to rush them into that role as there would be with a bad team. They have more wiggle room for "luxury picks".

As for Seattle - well, we could debate over whether they went into maintenance mode prematurely, but they did almost make the NFCCG last year. And RB's wear down fast. I never really raised an eyebrow at the Michael pick.


I am probably a bit more perturbed with the situation than I would typically be. I didn't like the hits ML was taking at the line last year to get his 1600. So naturally I was hoping for OL, with WR no longer a concern due to the Harvin signing. Now....with our 2nd rounder on the bench and our line in even worse shape, I am irritable. ; )

Hopefully Pete and co are merely waiting for the return of Okung for better protection and / or the powder keg Harvin to distract defenses before unleashing CM onto the free world. In all actuality, we are fine without CM, I just need to know he's the real deal, then I'll be fine with everything. But yes, I am a bit concerned whether or not that is the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:24 pm 
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I would love to see production from our 2nd rd pick this year, but right now we have not necessarily needed him yet, plus they probably still want him to improve on certain aspects of his game such as pass pro.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Blitzer88 wrote:
I would love to see production from our 2nd rd pick this year, but right now we have not necessarily needed him yet, plus they probably still want him to improve on certain aspects of his game such as pass pro.


Your last sentence is the one that causes me the most discomfort, Blitzer. In college, CM played at a major program where the passing game was prominent. He should have been fairly well dialed in on protection from his time there, alone.

Since that time, he's had the luxury of some of the worlds best coaches working with him while being surrounded by some of the best players in the league. We know that he is a very talented athlete, so with all that coaching and all that talent, how is it that he can't get on a football field? For me, it's troubling.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:25 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
Blitzer88 wrote:
I would love to see production from our 2nd rd pick this year, but right now we have not necessarily needed him yet, plus they probably still want him to improve on certain aspects of his game such as pass pro.


Your last sentence is the one that causes me the most discomfort, Blitzer. In college, CM played at a major program where the passing game was prominent. He should have been fairly well dialed in on protection from his time there, alone.

Since that time, he's had the luxury of some of the worlds best coaches working with him while being surrounded by some of the best players in the league. We know that he is a very talented athlete, so with all that coaching and all that talent, how is it that he can't get on a football field? For me, it's troubling.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:39 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Shaun Alexander had a few splinters in his butt that first year also. We can start a new tradition though, the Wheres Micheal weekly Thread, I think we see one every week sionce he looked so dynamic in pre season.


We can add that to the "holy crap someone sneezed in China and Turbin fell down" thread we see every week.

Meanwhile, Turbin ran over 5 guys in the Arizona game on his way to a 3-4 yard run and looked like Lynch doing it. But no one will mention it when anything good happens since he seems to be a pariah on this board now.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
Shaun Alexander had a few splinters in his butt that first year also. We can start a new tradition though, the Wheres Micheal weekly Thread, I think we see one every week sionce he looked so dynamic in pre season.


We can add that to the "holy crap someone sneezed in China and Turbin fell down" thread we see every week.

Meanwhile, Turbin ran over 5 guys in the Arizona game on his way to a 3-4 yard run and looked like Lynch doing it. But no one will mention it when anything good happens since he seems to be a pariah on this board now.

Not with me, he isn't. Yeah, I would like to see Turbo run with more balance, but I love his pass catching. Now, that run in Arizona where he ran for 30 yards to gain 2 was dumb, and got Carpenter hurt, but overall I liked his game.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Is Turbin loathed on this board? I can't imagine why that would be. Perhaps people don't always consider what a rhythmic position RB is. Asking for more than we are getting from Turbin, is asking a lot of a guy that sees the ball so infrequently. He runs with authority, catches well and holds onto the ball. LOVE the guy. Oh yeah, and he's cheap!


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:00 pm 
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I have called out Turbin to loathe him after the Texans game.

I think he's an ace 3rd down back for sure but I feel his pass protection is vastly overrated by some, he's good but he's not one of the best at his position or anything, and I feel he's still an average rusher overall who needs to rely on O-Line play for production. Also, I'm not sure if he's a special team standout.

My biggest thing about Turbin is he doesn't look his part, he's a tank but tries to run like Chris Johnson and flash to the outside. I'd rather have a more sucessful short yardage bruiser than well rounded change of pace guy. I feel like Turbin is getting better, he's starting to figure out what he can and can't do as a rusher. And he's slowly changing his style and adjusting to the O-Line.

I like Turbin, he was my favorite RB in the 2012 draft after Chris Polk but after seeing what Michael can do with his athleticism purely as a rusher. You just don't forget that and it should burn your patience up a little bit... with so much explosive play-making ability just wasting away.

Its cool though, the team is above Michael, we are 6-1 with him seeing limited action, he'll continue to grow, he'll continue to watch Lynch and learn what it takes to be the most physically overwhelming RB in the NFL today. 4 -5 years down the road, when we would have all but have forgotten the legacy of Beast Mode, Michael will be the next best RB in the NFL and we will be comparing him as a hybrid of Lynch and Peterson. And we will be giving Michael nicknames like Seattle's Sweetness or Sonic Sweetness or Sonic Dynamite.

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YOU WANTED THIS NOISE, AMERICA.
DON'T PLAY WITH DYNAMITE, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE BOOM.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:35 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Shaun Alexander had a few splinters in his butt that first year also. We can start a new tradition though, the Wheres Micheal weekly Thread, I think we see one every week sionce he looked so dynamic in pre season.


Ricky "Running" Watters was the primary back near the end of his prime when Alexander was drafted. No doubt that Shaun and Ricky were aware of the impending change of the guard. It will happen, folks - Christine Michael will be your starting running back soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Turbin had a bad preseason, but is having a great regular season. Let's not paint with a broad brush. Maybe he got better, or maybe he wasn't in form yet back in August.


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Could we do 10 seconds of research to get the spelling of names correct please?


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 Post subject: Re: Christain Michael
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:14 pm 
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nsport wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
Shaun Alexander had a few splinters in his butt that first year also. We can start a new tradition though, the Wheres Micheal weekly Thread, I think we see one every week sionce he looked so dynamic in pre season.


Ricky "Running" Watters was the primary back near the end of his prime when Alexander was drafted. No doubt that Shaun and Ricky were aware of the impending change of the guard. It will happen, folks - Christine Michael will be your starting running back soon.


Excellent reference. Our running game was an absolute work of art as the fiery Watters tried to stave off the silky smooth Alexander. That's the formula we need to get going with Lynch and Michael. I'm a Turbin fan, but from day 1, he has looked too comfortable in ML's shadow. As I mentioned previously, every back needs a multitude of touches to find his stride. Turbin's not really getting enough touches to make a real determination of his capability. But some of that is on him. He needs to pick his step up while running with anger on every single carry. Last year, he had some great runs, but there were also times he ran almost apologetically. I like Turbin a lot, but I believe Michael will make the most of his chances. Like SA vs. Watters, we need to pit Michael against Lynch, asap, IMO.


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