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 Post subject: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:36 am 
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We can debate the who why or what, and especially the who we are missing. But when you look at the stats the offensive line play has been really deplorable. And I think it speaks a lot to Russell's tenacity that the team is 6 and 1.

Russell is the third most sacked QB in the league at 20 sacks. Now if you include how many times he's had to scramble because of pressures, it really could be so much worse. An example of this, here are the other most sacked QB's in the league.

Ryan Tannehill - 24 Sacks - 3-2 Record
Geno Smith - 21 Sacks - 3-3 Record
Carson Palmer - 20 Sacks - 3-4 Record
Terrelle Pryor - 20 Sacks - 2-4 Record
Joe Flacco - 19 Sacks - 3-3 Record

The argument being that the reason we are 6-1 is because of one Russell Wilson and the grinding mentality of our run game. Though I would say in games like Texas it was Russell that was grinding out the critical first down with his feet.

Manning has only been sacked 5 times, Alex Smith 16, Drew Brees 14.

Not trying to make any point here, just commenting on Russell Wilson and his ability to win these games under constant pressure. Not a lot of quarterbacks have the poise and athletic ability to keep there teams on top. So any of those folks in the back of your mind wondering of Tavaris may be a better option, I would think again.

And, I'm going to be really happy to get Okung back, and god forbid, Breno.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:37 am 
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Shock2k wrote:
We can debate the who why or what...

Russell is the third most sacked QB in the league at 20 sacks. Now if you include how many times he's had to scramble because of pressures, it really could be so much worse.


You can't really account for that. Because other QBs that don't have his escapability simply throw earlier or throw the ball away to avoid sacks too. And those instances aren't trackable. If Wilson didn't have his scrambling ability, he'd do what other QBs do.

I'd even go so far as to say his scrambling ability increases his sack totals because he doesn't throw it away but extends plays that maybe only 2 or 3 other QBs in the league would be capable of doing. His sack totals are always going to be higher. And given his consistent ability to turn pressures into first downs via the scramble, I would take higher sack figures resulting from that.

What is a better barometer would be pressures allowed. Because those typically indicate all protection failures irregardless of a QBs alternative options to avoiding sacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:43 am 
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I agree. Wilson has taken a half a dozen sacks this year that he shouldn't have. Tom Brady or Peyton Manning don't take those sacks, even behind this line, although I'm not saying both those QBs would do as well as Wilson behind our OL right now. Wilson holds the ball too long, and what drives me crazy is he sometimes gets caught on his rollouts; it's almost like he thinks he can run away from any DLman, not accounting for how fast some are.

Our OL is beat up, but they're playing better, and run blocking better. AZ was the 8th ranked defense against the run, we had them at their house where teams tend to play better, and we ran well against them. That's an improvement that will help protection, open up our PA pass game and get our offense into a rythm.

Keep in mind, our OL looks bad because we've only played two teams out of 7 that have had a defense ranked outside of #11 overall. That's kind of freakish, and those good defenses will feast on backups. It says a lot about our depth that we're doing this well, that and Wilson's play.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:32 pm 
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I keep hearing in the media that the run blocking has been really good.
I'd say it's fair.
I see Beastmode finding a space between two O linemen and blowing the pile 4 yds forward.
If he gets a hole, he's got 9yds. TGFBM. (THANK GOD FOR BEAST MODE)


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Wilson led the league much of 2012 in TTS (time to sack), which could be used to argue that many of his sacks are coverage sacks where he held onto the ball too long. We know that is by design, and it has been worth risking the occasional sack in order to get all of the benefits that his mobility brings. The fumbles are a different story, if that continues to be a problem I think you will see some minor philosophy adjustments.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:05 pm 
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I look at Wilson's sacks (the holding on too long variety) as I am sure Lion fans looked at Sanders negative yard runs. I'll take the negatives for the magic of the positives.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:45 pm 
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our run blocking has been decent because it's more dependent on our guards and they have been the only consistent part of the O-line.

our pass blocking has been bad because we are playing 2nd string tackles, one who's a rookie and another who is a below avarage backup.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:53 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
I look at Wilson's sacks (the holding on too long variety) as I am sure Lion fans looked at Sanders negative yard runs. I'll take the negatives for the magic of the positives.


It's possible that Pete and Bevell are willing to take sacks in exchange for the plays that Wilson does pull out when improvising and scrambling. It's obvious that he makes a ton more positive plays than negative, and we seem to pick up an above average amount of 3rd and longs because of his athleticism.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
sturg78 wrote:
I look at Wilson's sacks (the holding on too long variety) as I am sure Lion fans looked at Sanders negative yard runs. I'll take the negatives for the magic of the positives.


It's possible that Pete and Bevell are willing to take sacks in exchange for the plays that Wilson does pull out when improvising and scrambling. It's obvious that he makes a ton more positive plays than negative, and we seem to pick up an above average amount of 3rd and longs because of his athleticism.



This is how I look at it.

The fumbles are a shame. But what else should be happening? I would rather risk the fumbles than have a QB that is skittish in the pocket and making desparate and frantic throws. Right now there is just no way for our line to protect him well so he's going to have to make plays if we want to win, plays he can't make if he suddenly spends all his time worrying about the pressure than making a play. Luckily our defense is good enough to absorb the mistakes that will sometimes lead too, but I think it opens up more positives than negatives.

that being said the first fumble where he saw the guy coming and tried to get away rather than just tucking it safely and taking the hit should have been avoided.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Excellent points, thanks for the sober analysis.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
sturg78 wrote:
I look at Wilson's sacks (the holding on too long variety) as I am sure Lion fans looked at Sanders negative yard runs. I'll take the negatives for the magic of the positives.


It's possible that Pete and Bevell are willing to take sacks in exchange for the plays that Wilson does pull out when improvising and scrambling. It's obvious that he makes a ton more positive plays than negative, and we seem to pick up an above average amount of 3rd and longs because of his athleticism.


Not only is it possible it is the truth and Pete has stated it many times.

They want to be the best scramble play team in the league and play to Wilson's strengths.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
It's possible that Pete and Bevell are willing to take sacks in exchange for the plays that Wilson does pull out when improvising and scrambling.


So, we're Mike Martz with a scrambling QB. That...doesn't make me feel too comfortable.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Well they don't have Bulger as a qb (I think the Hawks qb is a little more mobile)
My thoughts are that if you can get to where they are at 6-1, you have just built depth for when you do get your key guys back. And if you don't get them back this year, you know what you have and know how to game plan for game going forward.

Yes, it has not been the 50 pts games that we saw for a stretch last year, but in this league, every team has talent, so to win any game with "backup" talent goes to show how deep the team can be.

#gohawkseh


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Leee-roy wrote:
I keep hearing in the media that the run blocking has been really good.
I'd say it's fair.
I see Beastmode finding a space between two O linemen and blowing the pile 4 yds forward.
If he gets a hole, he's got 9yds. TGFBM. (THANK GOD FOR BEAST MODE)


Everybody looks at stats and says our run blocking is good, but they don't see our guys blocking during the games. I'd say our guys our good at creating a push off their initial blocks, but blocking at the 2nd level is pathetic for a number of reasons. One guy doesn't have the hustle to make it to the next level, another guy doesn't have the experience to locate blocks at the next level while another guy is just inexperienced and not good at blocking.

Of course, you should probably expect this when a converted DT in his 2nd year is at RG, a late round pick rookie is in at RT and a disappointing former 1st round pick is in at LG with your best LG in at LT to replace your Pro Bowl LT that's out along with a really good starting RT.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor Offensive Line Play
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:29 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:

So, we're Mike Martz with a scrambling QB.


Not really. The Seahawks run the ball.

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