Carpenter vs A. Bailey and more OL questions

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  • It seems like Carpenter struggles more often than he doesn't and being that the coaches seem to really like Alvin Bailey almost as much as Bowie, why hasn't Bailey been given a shot to play LG? Is Bailey strictly a tackle? Or is it just as simple as being without 3 starters already, they didn't want to stick Bailey into the fire even though he could be more talented than Carpenter? once we get our starters back on the OL, is it possible we could see Bailey getting practice time as the 2nd string LG? Or, if Bowie keeps impressing at RT, what happens when Breno comes back? Keep Bowie at RT and move Breno to LG? Vice versa? Is McQuistan without question the best LG on this team? Seems like there could be a lot of possible moves on the OL the next few weeks.
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  • because James carpenter has all that hidden potential locked away. Don't worry if you're patient enough you might one day see it.
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  • ShaunPope wrote:It seems like Carpenter struggles more often than he doesn't and being that the coaches seem to really like Alvin Bailey almost as much as Bowie, why hasn't Bailey been given a shot to play LG? Is Bailey strictly a tackle? Or is it just as simple as being without 3 starters already, they didn't want to stick Bailey into the fire even though he could be more talented than Carpenter? once we get our starters back on the OL, is it possible we could see Bailey getting practice time as the 2nd string LG? Or, if Bowie keeps impressing at RT, what happens when Breno comes back? Keep Bowie at RT and move Breno to LG? Vice versa? Is McQuistan without question the best LG on this team? Seems like there could be a lot of possible moves on the OL the next few weeks.


    Carpenter has looked good in spots. He's a very good run blocker at the point of attack but he's not quick enough to get out on linebackers. There's no doubt that he's struggling.

    I think you answered your own question when you indicated that we were (until last Sunday) without 3 starters...actually 4 if you count McQ playing out of position. At this point, they need stability, and Carpenter gives them that. I suspect that once Okung comes back, they'll start platooning McQ and Carpenter at LG.
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  • I agree, Carpenter just isn't cutt'n it. I think he should sit untill he understands, ya don't wander around with no goal in mind on the playing field! Block/Hit somebody. Isn't that what your suppose to do untill the whistle?
    Bailey is hungry, I'm sure, take all that enthusiasm and let see what he does for a quarter. The Razorback is pretty good but, ya gotta give him some reps. I think he should get to play the second quarter and if we see something possitive play him a good share of the second half.
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  • Carp struggles, but he also flashes. I wouldn't be shocked if Bailey was tried out in that spot for a practice or two, but it just didn't get out. You gotta trust the coaches with the decisions they make sometimes. Consistency is very important to an O-Line's success. Had we lost more than one game this year, you might have seen some changes made. Coaching decisions have allowed us to be 5-1, so they're going to stick with what gets the job done.

    RT will be interesting when Breno is healthy enough to play, but wouldn't assume that it means Breno goes to guard. You don't just put your 5 best lineman out there and call it an o-line without looking at fits at Tackle, Center and Guard.
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  • Carpenter is physically a very gifted lineman. Extremely powerful, explosive and capable of winning most of the battles he engages in... WHEN he engages. Problem is... He seems to consistently miss blocks, which means he doesn't engage as often as he should. He's explosive and quick out of his stance, but it seems he just becomes a waste of space after the play gets past the LOS. NO MOTOR. He doesn't hit anybody at the second level and often misses blocks on the pull or the cross. I'm beyond disappointed with Carpenter at this point. Definitely going down as a bust in my book, unless he makes some kind of miraculous turn around and starts cleaning clocks consistently off the snap and through the 2nd level.
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  • I keep hearing that only "lazy" posters bag on Carpenter and they only do so because it is "safe" and "easy"
    But reading all of the above seems rational to me. And fair.

    I'm glad the kid has stayed healthy this year, and hope he continues to improve. Consistency and rhythm will come with familiarity and have to count for something in the interior 3, with both our starting tackles missing so many games.
    Last edited by bestfightstory on Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Let's face it --Carp is too fat to be an above average LG. It's obvious when he has his chubby hands on his knees, running out of breath. The guy needs to get in shape! Eat less of that fried rice, fried french fries, fried donut, fried chicken and anything else breaded and fried and get on a vegatble diet. Seriously, with all the exercise he gets you know the dude slams down 6k calories per day. He needs to lose that belly, which will automatically increase his endurance, speed/quickness as well as strength if we assume he replaces a % of that tub with muscle.

    The fact that he has been in the league as long as he has, and he is as out of shape as he is, tells me he simply does not care. He doesn't want to be the best he can be, he wants to get that check and eat, in more ways than one.
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  • plyka wrote:Let's face it --Carp is too fat to be an above average LG. It's obvious when he has his chubby hands on his knees, running out of breath. The guy needs to get in shape! Eat less of that fried rice, fried french fries, fried donut, fried chicken and anything else breaded and fried and get on a vegatble diet. Seriously, with all the exercise he gets you know the dude slams down 6k calories per day. He needs to lose that belly, which will automatically increase his endurance, speed/quickness as well as strength if we assume he replaces a % of that tub with muscle.

    The fact that he has been in the league as long as he has, and he is as out of shape as he is, tells me he simply does not care. He doesn't want to be the best he can be, he wants to get that check and eat, in more ways than one.


    I bet you wouldn't talk like that to his face. lol
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  • King Dog wrote:
    plyka wrote:Let's face it --Carp is too fat to be an above average LG. It's obvious when he has his chubby hands on his knees, running out of breath. The guy needs to get in shape! Eat less of that fried rice, fried french fries, fried donut, fried chicken and anything else breaded and fried and get on a vegatble diet. Seriously, with all the exercise he gets you know the dude slams down 6k calories per day. He needs to lose that belly, which will automatically increase his endurance, speed/quickness as well as strength if we assume he replaces a % of that tub with muscle.

    The fact that he has been in the league as long as he has, and he is as out of shape as he is, tells me he simply does not care. He doesn't want to be the best he can be, he wants to get that check and eat, in more ways than one.


    I bet you wouldn't talk like that to his face. lol


    Agreed. Carpenter is the strongest guy on the team and you don't get that from a 6'5 200 pounder. He was brought in here to be the road grader he is. And if you look closely at the game footage he is getting better all the time.
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  • Carps biggest problem is that he's so massive that when he screws up, it's really stands out.

    I give him a little leeway right now for being forced to played beside McQuistan.

    But Bowie is becoming a revelation. Breno is good as gone.
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  • If the coaches think Bailey would be an upgrade don't you think he would be in there?

    He more than likely is not better than Carp at this point and can we afford putting 2 rookies on the line?
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  • Largent80 wrote:If the coaches think Bailey would be an upgrade don't you think he would be in there?

    He more than likely is not better than Carp at this point and can we afford putting 2 rookies on the line?


    I think the coaches see Bailey as a LT, and that's why you don't see them messing with him.
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  • Carpenter is the type that is dominant in a phone booth. If you have him is space or at RT, he is in trouble. Not sure what the state of his legs are from past injuries but he can move people. I look forward to him finishing a season without having to sit due to injury. Will conditioning help him with the spatial issues? No clue.

    Saw a play where he took two DL and pushed them both out the hole, one on each arm.
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  • BIG GAME JAMES!

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    and the game winning touchdown...
    are running Marshawn right behind Big Game James into the end zone.

    I get the feeling Marshawn trusts him, so I will place trust in, and root for him, too...

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  • King Dog wrote:
    plyka wrote:Let's face it --Carp is too fat to be an above average LG. It's obvious when he has his chubby hands on his knees, running out of breath. The guy needs to get in shape! Eat less of that fried rice, fried french fries, fried donut, fried chicken and anything else breaded and fried and get on a vegatble diet. Seriously, with all the exercise he gets you know the dude slams down 6k calories per day. He needs to lose that belly, which will automatically increase his endurance, speed/quickness as well as strength if we assume he replaces a % of that tub with muscle.

    The fact that he has been in the league as long as he has, and he is as out of shape as he is, tells me he simply does not care. He doesn't want to be the best he can be, he wants to get that check and eat, in more ways than one.


    I bet you wouldn't talk like that to his face. lol


    Oh hell no i wouldn't...you crazy mofo, don't you know the biggest benefit of the Internet is anonymity?
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  • Largent80 wrote:If the coaches think Bailey would be an upgrade don't you think he would be in there?

    He more than likely is not better than Carp at this point and can we afford putting 2 rookies on the line?


    That's what I said when McQ was playing ahead of Carpenter before Okung went down.
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  • Y'know. I'm going to make a point of focusing exclusively on Carp tomorrow against some quality opposition and see what I see.

    I'm sure you will all be monitoring this situation closely.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:Y'know. I'm going to make a point of focusing exclusively on Carp tomorrow against some quality opposition and see what I see.

    I'm sure you will all be monitoring this situation closely.


    He sometimes remind me of my son when I was helping to coach him with Rainier's 89ers (6-10 year olds). He was 7 at the time and they made him a RG. He would fire out on his guy and get a good push, then he would just stand up and look around while the action was still going on. Drove me nuts and the other coaches as well, though they never took him out as a starter. I kept hoping some kid would earhole him so he would lose that habit.
    Last edited by drdiags on Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • ^I have definitely seen the stand upright and look around from Carpenter. Weird. That is usually coached out of football players by 11th grade.
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  • Carp should play NT
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  • IIRC, he hasn't even played football long, right?

    I feel sympathy for the dude, actually. Being picked round one always comes with scrutiny. But even more so if the team that selected you was trying desperately to trade down. Then he blew out a knee. He busted his ass to get back, way ahead of schedule, but he didn't get any credit for that. His circumstances have not allowed him to ever get into NFL shape. Once he does, I think he'll be above-average and great in power run-game.

    IMO, we dont know what he can be. And, I'm assuming Cable knows his stuff.
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  • Just rewatched the shortcuts.

    Carpenter had two big plays that stood out negatively. The false start and the hold.

    He was the most consistent at holding the pocket. He was the most consistent at pushing his man off the line of scrimmage. One of the TD's Carp hits his man, stands him up, then drives him into the endzone.

    He did struggle trying to engage a LB once or twice, and the DT 93 hits the gap faster two times. One time carp pushed that way because it was a roll out and the second time it was a run that way. Carp ended up pushing the guy right out of the play. But from my understanding allowing that penetration on the ZBS is a big no no.

    He had one funny slow looking cut block and one really good looking one.

    Overall I think he held the point of attack better than most on the pass, and really moved people off the line on running plays.

    After re-watching that game I think I will re-watch the colts and Huston game. Also I think people give him less credit than he deserves because his gaffs are really obvious and his positives are subtle.
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  • The Texans game is the one that gave Carp some problems. He had Antonio Smith I think as his assignment but whomever it was, they were quick. The hold he got against the Titans was when #53 rushed him. He was a LB I think and his speed was a handful for Carp. If you try to physically dominate Carp, you are in for a battle.
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  • I just watched the first drive.. carp was awesome.
    Left tackle got beat on every single play; except the Decided run play.
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  • McGruff wrote:Carps biggest problem is that he's so massive that when he screws up, it's really stands out.

    I give him a little leeway right now for being forced to played beside McQuistan.

    But Bowie is becoming a revelation. Breno is good as gone.


    That's what my untrained eye is telling me. Bowie's play made a jump against Tennesse! Lookout Breno.
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  • Bowie did make a huge leap, huh? Bowie's as at least a quality "depth" guy at this point.

    Originally assuming Carp struggles, then after further review recognizing Carp's also flashes dominance, is good to hear. He's also just now matching his most consistent PT stretch in the NFL right? Certainly at Guard he is. So, he will get better.
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  • After watching another round of .GIFs from Fieldgulls, it's clear that Carpenter isn't just good on running plays, he's borderline elite. Has a couple "Walter Jones 2005" moments where he just walks his man ten yards downfield like he's nothing. His pass protection gaffes are, unfortunately, rather spectacular in the opposite sense, but Lynch isn't getting his yards because of McQ and Sweezy, I'll assure you of that. He's learning to trust Carp. Insulate Carp with a competent left tackle and I doubt Bailey unseats him any time soon.
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  • Ever since I saw this posted in a Field Gulls comment, I have not been able to get this picture of James out of my head.

    This play was a Lynch screen (tripped on Lem) that turned into an incompletion.

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    look at poor james, just wandering in the wilderness
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  • The Outfield wrote:Ever since I saw this posted in a Field Gulls comment, I have not been able to get this picture of James out of my head.

    This play was a Lynch screen (tripped on Lem) that turned into an incompletion.

    Image

    Comment:
    look at poor james, just wandering in the wilderness


    This was the one game I have't seen, so I don't know the exact play, but if it was a screen, then often you will find the guards downfield to block for the screen. In that case, it wouldn't be odd to see carpenter out there like that.
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  • Fudwamper wrote:
    Also I think people give him less credit than he deserves because his gaffs are really obvious and his positives are subtle.
    lol, welcome to life as an offensive lineman...
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  • If he was in shape we would give him less crap.
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  • Pear shaped doesn’t count..?
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  • McGruff wrote:
    The Outfield wrote:Ever since I saw this posted in a Field Gulls comment, I have not been able to get this picture of James out of my head.

    This play was a Lynch screen (tripped on Lem) that turned into an incompletion.

    Image

    Comment:
    look at poor james, just wandering in the wilderness


    This was the one game I have't seen, so I don't know the exact play, but if it was a screen, then often you will find the guards downfield to block for the screen. In that case, it wouldn't be odd to see carpenter out there like that.


    No no no... This has always been my issue with Carpenter. Very strong and dominant at the point of attack, but gets beat with quickness and has a hard time making blocks at the second level. For a point of attack run blocker, he's very very good, but his lacking ability to effectively block quicker pass rushers and make blocks downfield has become a noticeable problem. Probably wouldn't be that big of a deal if he was a late round pick, but a 1st round pick on a one dimensional interior lineman is kind of disappointing. People can talk about his health, but we're talking about 3 years he's been with the team.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:If he was in shape we would give him less carp.

    fixed that for ya
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  • I think this is James Carpenter's prove it year. His contract is guaranteed thru this year. But, next year .... his fourth year .... there are no guarantees.

    James has 21 NFL starts and has played in 23 games. Unfortunately, one would be hard pressed to argue that his body of work, to date, warrants consideration for anything significant in the way of a second multi-year contract. However, with any luck, that outlook could change as the year continues to unfold. It's really up to Carpenter.

    For anyone who might be inclined to think that Cable's interest in less mobile but very powerful specialists is waning, I think of the recent addition of Zach Allen to the practice squad as a contrary indicator.
    Last edited by Jville on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • firebee wrote:Probably wouldn't be that big of a deal if he was a late round pick, but a 1st round pick on a one dimensional....


    Paging Bruce Irvin...
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