DVR review - Offense

The Essential Online Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. RATING: PG-13
Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:56 pm
  • Cartire wrote:My point was, he should have seen it, at least the timing, because he looked right first after the snap. Him looking to the left at that point, I dont consider blindsided, because he should have known that guys was coming. Im not saying its Wilsons fault on that one, as I think Breno could have stalled him a bit longer, but Wilson should have anticipated that hit, as he should have seen it coming.


    I think you are partially correct so I won't argue. I've heard NFL coaches say that any sack that comes from the right side is on the QB (unless he's a lefty).

    Giacomini did get owned on the play though. Wilson clearly did not expect pressure to arrive that soon.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10271
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:12 pm
  • Nice one, Kearly. I'm looking forward to re-watching the game myself. I'm also looking forward to watching that Philly game. If we are moving away from the traditional blocking FB role, I wonder how much of that Chip Kelly style we might be able to pull off. The same way our coaches stole a few pages from the RG3 playbook last year, I'd be curious to see if we could wrinkle it up with some fast-paced flying around. We have plenty of speed, good hands, and great decision-making at the skill spots, but I don't really know what it takes to implement those kinds of plays and pace.
    Image
    User avatar
    HawkAroundTheClock
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1403
    Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:30 pm
    Location: Olympia


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:16 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Cartire wrote:My point was, he should have seen it, at least the timing, because he looked right first after the snap. Him looking to the left at that point, I dont consider blindsided, because he should have known that guys was coming. Im not saying its Wilsons fault on that one, as I think Breno could have stalled him a bit longer, but Wilson should have anticipated that hit, as he should have seen it coming.


    I think you are partially correct so I won't argue. I've heard NFL coaches say that any sack that comes from the right side is on the QB (unless he's a lefty).

    Giacomini did get owned on the play though. Wilson clearly did not expect pressure to arrive that soon.



    I just got to stand up for my boy Giac. He gets far to much flak on this board, and I think a lot of it is assumed. He loses from time to time, but honestly, show me a RT that doesnt. Theres a few, but you cant leave your first hand before running out of names. And hes a bruiser, something that you just need to have on the line.
    Time of possession is the most meaningless statistic in football. -RolandDeschain
    User avatar
    Cartire
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2331
    Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:49 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:22 pm
  • Question I have for you soapbox....

    When should we realistically expect Wilson to start to shift protections, identify where the pressure is coming from presnap, change the play, and beat teams with his mind instead of his legs?

    Brady and Manning are not fleet of foot but are hard to sack because of what they do presnap.

    Wilson must take this next step.
    Image
    User avatar
    Tech Worlds
    * Capt'n Dom *
    * Capt'n Dom *
     
    Posts: 9074
    Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 am
    Location: Granite Falls, WA


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:52 pm
  • I'm just glad upon further review, by a highly intelligent poster, who has been doing game reviews for a while that the team didn't play as bad as it looked. No, it wasn't the best execution but given the circumstances, it wasn't all woe and catastrophe as some posters painted it out to be hitting their red alert buttons.

    Good job, Kearly. Keep it up. One day you'll get paid for this.
    #11 is the Gatling Gun, coming at Ds in multiple, unpredictable ways spreading the field horizontally.

    #10 is the Sniper Rifle, if you don't respect his deep field speed opposing DBs will end up in a pink mist.

    #24 is the Boomstick, get in his way when you're the lone defender, I dare you.
    Pandion Haliaetus
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1630
    Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:07 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:59 pm
  • bestfightstory wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:I say that because Kearse was able to leap vertically to get both hands on the ball whereas Williams had to stretch out horizontally and in the direction he was headed (ie overthrow albeit slight ie imperfect ie a bit short)


    Agree to disagree, I suppose. -- thought both had an opportunity on decently placed bombs. Still expect both to be big play weapons throughout the season.


    Agree with all of that! :thirishdrinkers:


    I would have to watch it again but it seemed like Wilson held the ball a bit longer on the throw to Kearse and threw it more on a line rather than float it over. The Williams throw had more "touch" on it. Like I said, I need to watch it again but that's what I remember thinking in the moment. It looked like Wilson held a second longer and then put a little more on it while bring the trajectory down. Both throws were placed where only the WR had a play on the ball. That's the most important part. RW is just plain good. Period. Both Williams and Kearse will make plays this year.
    "Home of the Greatest Defense on planet Earth."
    User avatar
    Gametime
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:39 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:59 pm
  • kearly wrote:-Seattle's last drive was their best one. They looked very much like themselves on that drive, which began at their own 7 yard line and ate up nearly 6 minutes of game clock.


    First of all thanks for the time and effort put into your breakdown. I appreciate it very much as I see many others on the board do.

    Next, I'm used to looking at the offensive line as a unit. Particularly in zone blocking scheme it seems very difficult to conclude who is the weakest link in the chain. In my opinion, as a unit, the OL was miserable. Too much pressure, too soon on pass plays. No push or getting to the second level on running plays. Some claim that's because of how great the Panther front seven is, but I don't buy it. Our OL simply failed to make plays and do their job.

    Finally, what changed in that final drive? Why couldn't they do that in any of the previous possessions?
    I have Seahawks swag older than any current Seahawks player.
    AK Seahawks Fan on Facebook
    AK Seahawks Fan on Twitter
    User avatar
    akseahawkfan
    * NET PITA *
     
    Posts: 815
    Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:54 pm
    Location: Anchorage Alaska


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:20 pm
  • akseahawkfan wrote:
    Finally, what changed in that final drive? Why couldn't they do that in any of the previous possessions?


    Only saw the drive once while fully inebriated, but looked like they were just taking what the defense was giving them instead of going for the intermediate or deep ball.

    Also Carroll said this:

    “We just didn’t get it done the way that we liked it,” Carroll said. “I contributed to that. So I’ve got to make sure that I help out and do the right things to help us, and get us on a track on what’s really important to us.


    “We didn’t zero in early enough, where we could make the adjustments that we normally make. It just took us a while. At the end of the game, we were able to run the ball enough to make


    the drives that we needed and things worked out. It just took us longer than we needed in that game in particular.”
    User avatar
    hoxrox
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1190
    Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:29 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:19 pm
  • bigtrain21 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:I thought Sweezy looked bad in the 2nd level too, whiffed a couple of times. I saw the Carp whiff, it was pretty unathletic looking.


    The Carp whiff wasn't really unathletic looking. He simply made no attempt to block the only guy really available. He just ran right by him. Kuechly didn't factor in the tackle but it was more of a head scratcher than unathletic.

    If you have Game Rewind, two eyes in fair working condition, and solely focus on James Carpenter's play over the course of the game you can reach no other conclusion than...he was absolutely terrible. You can excuse his poor performance by blaming injury, conditioning, rust, whatever. But, there can be no excuse for his complete lack of effort.

    + There were a half dozen plays where he simply gives up and doesn't block anyone.
    + There were another half dozen plays where he tries to block someone and whiffs badly.
    + There were a number of plays that were completely blown to pieces directly due to Carp's laziness.

    I am not sure that he won a single block the entire game, although he did finally get to the second level on Turbin's big run, and at least got a paw on 58. Most of the time he was combo blocking with Okung / Unger or reaching a stalemate with the DT who generally appeared to be loitering to guard against Wilson taking off.

    Contrast his play with McQuistan who was active every snap he got, occasionally getting blocks on multiple defenders. Even the holding call on McQ came after he successfully blocked the defender for like 4 seconds while Russell held the ball forever which eventually caused penalties on both Okung and McQ. Yes, McQuistan will give some ground on running plays on occasion but he can at least block and pull and slide step and basically be an offensive guard. Carp can't.

    Why is he out there? Can anyone, ANYONE, point me to a game where this guy has actually played well? Ever? Clearly we have an investment in him and the front Office wants some return but this is dismal. Maybe they are trying to work him into shape, but to what end? He is fat, slow and he routinely commits the cardinal sin on a Pete Carroll team: He does not compete. Enough already...
    "It was so loud Derrick Coleman heard it."
    User avatar
    Thunderhawk
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 493
    Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:44 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:26 pm
  • The Seahawks are forcing their hand with Carpenter. They most likely want him in better condition, and the weather in Carolina was perfect to get him into the mix and knock off all that injury rust and get his body in motion.

    The fact remains though, Carpenter will decide his fate, he'll either step up or he won't and will be replaced after this season.

    The Seahawks are throwing him out their to see what he has, we'll see if he can stick or not.
    #11 is the Gatling Gun, coming at Ds in multiple, unpredictable ways spreading the field horizontally.

    #10 is the Sniper Rifle, if you don't respect his deep field speed opposing DBs will end up in a pink mist.

    #24 is the Boomstick, get in his way when you're the lone defender, I dare you.
    Pandion Haliaetus
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1630
    Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:07 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:59 am
  • Thunderhawk wrote:If you have Game Rewind, two eyes in fair working condition, and solely focus on James Carpenter's play over the course of the game you can reach no other conclusion than...he was absolutely terrible. You can excuse his poor performance by blaming injury, conditioning, rust, whatever. But, there can be no excuse for his complete lack of effort.

    + There were a half dozen plays where he simply gives up and doesn't block anyone.
    + There were another half dozen plays where he tries to block someone and whiffs badly.
    + There were a number of plays that were completely blown to pieces directly due to Carp's laziness.

    I am not sure that he won a single block the entire game, although he did finally get to the second level on Turbin's big run, and at least got a paw on 58. Most of the time he was combo blocking with Okung / Unger or reaching a stalemate with the DT who generally appeared to be loitering to guard against Wilson taking off.

    Contrast his play with McQuistan who was active every snap he got, occasionally getting blocks on multiple defenders. Even the holding call on McQ came after he successfully blocked the defender for like 4 seconds while Russell held the ball forever which eventually caused penalties on both Okung and McQ. Yes, McQuistan will give some ground on running plays on occasion but he can at least block and pull and slide step and basically be an offensive guard. Carp can't.

    Why is he out there? Can anyone, ANYONE, point me to a game where this guy has actually played well? Ever? Clearly we have an investment in him and the front Office wants some return but this is dismal. Maybe they are trying to work him into shape, but to what end? He is fat, slow and he routinely commits the cardinal sin on a Pete Carroll team: He does not compete. Enough already...


    I think you are really overstating your position.

    Game totals
    McQuistan 19 plays 43 yards (2.26 Yards per play) 4 - 3 & outs
    Carp 39 plays 285 yards (7.31 Yards per play!)

    McQuistan played one more drive than carp and had 20 less plays. Every drive Carp was in for was successful.

    You don't average 7.31 yards per play with your left guard not winning a single block as you say.
    User avatar
    bigtrain21
    * NET GIF Master *
     
    Posts: 1030
    Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:48 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:28 am
  • On Carpenter, the all 22 showed a few bad plays early, with Carp doing some ugly forklift imitations. But I also noticed that as the game went on, the Panthers kind of stayed away from him, especially in the pass rush.

    On the first down play that Lynch lost 5, Kip kind of laid the responsibility on Willson. It was Sweezy who really blew it. He had the responsibility of ZBS assist on the DT, then 2nd level on the LB. He didn't have to do much assist, then totally whiffed on Kuechly, who closed a big gap and redirected Lynch outside. Willson actually executed the block as assigned, there was no way he could know he would end up blocking his guy right into Lynch.

    Twice, personal fouls could have been called that were not. Both Sweezy and Carp tried to cut block engaged linemen.

    The Line seemed to me to be undone by a small number of really bad plays, some caused by seemingly bad communication. Unger snapped the ball early once, surprising everyone, and on that play Carpenter looked really bad as a DT just strolled by him to blow up an already blown up play. I struggle to see how that is Carpenter's fault, he had no chance to make a play even if he got off the snap, the gap left by Unger was that big. The sack and fumble in the red zone was an awful one on a miscue by Breno, he got deked into anchoring by the DE who kind of slowplayed him, then as he tried to re-anchor the guy got past him and was on Wilson in about 3 total seconds.

    I would also say that Carolina has 3 really good run stopping linebackers, and our lack of a fullback who could pick one of them off was pretty clear in some our run game. I thought there were a few occasions where a cutback lane evaporated because our tight ends and fill in fullbacks didn't pick one of those linebackers off.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 10541
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:27 am
  • Per Pete's presser Monday, the team is trying to be the best on scrambling QB. They have accepted this as a fact. What that tells me is RW will not throw from the pocket unless he has a clear throwing window or we need to throw it in clutch. He acrambles so that he can get an even better throwing lane than what he can or cannot see. The receivers are all running their routes and look back where if he is scrambling they run back or sideways away from the defender that is not scripted to get positive yards and move the chains. Dynamic plays, or when plays breakdown it is harder to defend against it. There is no ser pattern for these setups for people to learn. The only pattern will be RW scrambling a certain way and defenders figure out how to get to him. So everything has been molded to maximize RW skills which is exactly how it should be.
    seahawks08
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 625
    Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:19 am
  • falcongoggles wrote:
    kearly wrote:-JR Sweezy allowed a pressure in the first half, but was otherwise solid in pass pro.

    Sweezy -2.0 - tied for fifth worst score on team by PFF. If we consider that this score is accurate, either his run blocking was atrocious and thus brought the overall score down or his pass pro was not "solid"

    kearly wrote:-For all Carpenter's struggles, he was actually pretty solid in pass protection.

    Carpenter -2.3 - Lowest ranked lineman by PFF - something is not squaring here. What is your definition of solid?

    kearly wrote:-Giacomini had a legit hold, and also surrendered the only sack of the game that I would put squarely on the OL. The sack he allowed was the one where Wilson was looking to his left and fumbled after the blindside hit, which cost Seattle at least 3 points right before half time.


    Some of your strongest criticism for the only lineman that had a positive (and rather positive at that) score assigned by PFF.

    kearly wrote:-The run blocking was a lot better than I expected.

    End result i.e. 71 yards, 2.7 YPC would say otherwise.

    kearly wrote:-Wilson had plenty of time to throw on numerous occasions, particularly 3rd down. When he did end up scrambling, it was almost always because of coverage, not protection.

    If the pass protection was good then why did PFF assign these numbers?

    Giacomini 1.8
    Okung -1.2
    Unger -1.3
    Sweezy -2.0
    McQuistan -2.2
    Carpenter -2.3

    kearly wrote:-Seattle had several good looking drives, and Carolina pretty much stayed in a base defense.

    Head scratcher - the offense was brutal to watch


    Who care what other sites rate them? Breno has the most obvious bad play of any of the OLmen. Breno got beat badly for the sack that ended a scoring drive before halftime. If you look at the play Breno makes a very odd move, to which the defender took advantage. The Sad part is WIlson have Turbin wide open in the flat and seemed to have saw him but never pulled the trigger.
    jlwaters1
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2363
    Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:48 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:25 am
  • My only issue is characterizing Wilson throw to WIlliams as an overthrow.

    To me that incorrect. An otherthrow as defined by me, would be any throw that does not give the WR/TE the opportunity to make a play on the ball.
    The throw in the first quater that sailed 2-3 feet over Tate's outstretched hands was clearly an overthrow. This throw however hit Williams in both hands. In other words he gave Williams a chance with his throw. Was the throw 100% accurate? No, but it was probably 80% accurate, which is close enough (6 inches shorter and it would have been perfect). Therefore it hard to really give Wilson a negative mark for that.
    jlwaters1
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2363
    Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:48 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:29 am
  • I thought the Williams throw was damn near perfect.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 10541
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:31 am
  • Out of curiosity, how was the PT split between McQ and Carp? Which one played more. It seemed to me that the oline fared a little better in the earlier part of the game when Carp replaced McQ. Didn't really pay much attention to the oline after that.
    Go Hawks!
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 561
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:36 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:My only issue is characterizing Wilson throw to WIlliams as an overthrow.

    To me that incorrect. An otherthrow as defined by me, would be any throw that does not give the WR/TE the opportunity to make a play on the ball.
    The throw in the first quater that sailed 2-3 feet over Tate's outstretched hands was clearly an overthrow. This throw however hit Williams in both hands. In other words he gave Williams a chance with his throw. Was the throw 100% accurate? No, but it was probably 80% accurate, which is close enough (6 inches shorter and it would have been perfect). Therefore it hard to really give Wilson a negative mark for that.


    I took it one further. Williams noticably slows down as he turns to look for the ball. Had he kept his current speed, he would have hit the ball in stride for a perfect catch and a TD. Only cause it took Williams a little longer to track the ball did it actually sail a few inches to far.
    Time of possession is the most meaningless statistic in football. -RolandDeschain
    User avatar
    Cartire
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2331
    Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:49 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:39 am
  • I know this was an offensive thread, but the all-22 shows that KJ did not have a good time in coverage.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 10541
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:10 am
  • You're right, KJ got lost and turned around, maybe more times than I have ever seen from him.

    The Williams ball, although nearly perfect, was slightly overthrown. If you have a fast WR running a fade at full speed and he had to lay out, the ball is slightly overthrown. Not by much, mind you. Who gets more fault for the pass being incomplete, Wilson or Williams? The degree of difficulty is high, and you don't expect Wilson to hit every single one of them by any stretch, but that would have been one of the top plays on Sportscenter has Williams caught it. Like Kearly said, we're talking inches, not feet. Just a few inches shorter from Wilson, it is a TD. Williams could have caught the ball, absolutely, but that fact alone doesn't make it a perfect pass.

    I was ready to blame Unger for Luto's game. And after re-watching some, yeah, the rookie kind of showed the All-Pro a little bit. But I also agree a lot of his freedom was by design, and all three guards didn't quite get to him on a few scoop blocks. He's going to be a player.

    I need to watch again. Wilson still ran backwards more often than I would like to see. Do we not have hot routes, or are they not getting open? Something isn't right. Meh, I'm too lazy to figure out what. Will one of you address this at some point? Thanks!
    "So between my friends and I we have been at every home game to date this year, and we have all been plotting the offensive plays called. " ------Anthony!
    User avatar
    Tical21
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1290
    Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:37 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:11 am
  • You're right, KJ got lost and turned around, maybe more times than I have ever seen from him.

    The Williams ball, although nearly perfect, was slightly overthrown. If you have a fast WR running a fade at full speed and he had to lay out, the ball is slightly overthrown. Not by much, mind you. Who gets more fault for the pass being incomplete, Wilson or Williams? The degree of difficulty is high, and you don't expect Wilson to hit every single one of them by any stretch, but that would have been one of the top plays on Sportscenter has Williams caught it. Like Kearly said, we're talking inches, not feet. Just a few inches shorter from Wilson, it is a TD. Williams could have caught the ball, absolutely, but that fact alone doesn't make it a perfect pass.

    I was ready to blame Unger for Luto's game. And after re-watching some, yeah, the rookie kind of showed the All-Pro a little bit. But I also agree a lot of his freedom was by design, and all three guards didn't quite get to him on a few scoop blocks. He's going to be a player.

    I need to watch again. Wilson still ran backwards more often than I would like to see. Do we not have hot routes, or are they not getting open? Something isn't right. Meh, I'm too lazy to figure out what. Will one of you address this at some point? Thanks!
    "So between my friends and I we have been at every home game to date this year, and we have all been plotting the offensive plays called. " ------Anthony!
    User avatar
    Tical21
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1290
    Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:37 pm


Re: DVR review - Offense
Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:11 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:When you do a review of defense, I'd be curious to see what happened to Wagner.


    I won't be.



    Well. That certainly was hurtful.
    "Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk
    "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)
    User avatar
    bestfightstory
    * Glitter over Knives *
     
    Posts: 8511
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:13 pm


Next


It is currently Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:18 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online