With the SF game on the horizon, and Harbaugh still talking

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  • FrankTheTank21 wrote:LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

    After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

    I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.


    Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

    In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

    You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!
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  • BuddyRyans46 wrote:
    HawkWow wrote:This is consistent with every thing I have stated...and yes, I remember Muster well. It's become clear there are 3 types of people not aware of this VERY common knowledge about Harbaugh...the young, the disinterested and the 49er fan.

    But John knows. Let's not forget, Harbaugh didn't speak to, let alone congratulate, brother John on his SB win for an entire week after. How can anyone defend such a character? Call him a "great coach" if you want. That can be accepted or at least debated. Calling him anything resembling a good human only raises questions about you.


    HawkWow, you seem to know your football. I respect that. Kudos. Harbaugh is just an arrogant, confrontational, immature, uber-competitive jerk. Basically, he is proud of the fact that most people think he lacks perspective in life. You know, the type of guy who walks around with the proverbial chip on his shoulder, just daring someone to knock it off. He seems to me to be the type of guy who views everything as a "challenge" of some sort. You remember the old Seinfeld episode with the "Mandelbaums." You know, the family of old dudes who always thought Jerry was challenging them to see who was stronger (i.e. who could lift the heaviest object over their head). That basically is Harbaugh. He is the prototypical, "WHAT, YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME OR SOMETHING?!!!" guy.


    LOL...Thanks...now I'm having a hard time shaking the image of Harbaugh, with a block of wood balanced on his shoulder, muttering the words "Go, ahead...I dare ya'..I DOUBLE dare ya'". Then his mother's voice comes in "Jim...are you playing in the bathroom again...please come out now".

    I take it you're a Bears fan. Great franchise. It would be inappropriate for me to ask your age, but if you are my age, you've seen some GREAT players wear your uni., as well as the greatest team in the history of the sport (IMO). You'd think some of these SF jokers would appreciate your opinion on this subject. But they're an appreciative bunch, these 9er fans. ; )
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  • nsport wrote:
    FrankTheTank21 wrote:LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

    After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

    I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.


    Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

    In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

    You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!




    But what shenanigans are we talking about?

    Punching Jim Kelly 20 years ago? Flipping over card tables during poker games with the Bears? Slapping Jim Schwartz on the back?

    I'm just not sure how that relates to his interaction with his players. I think coaches get in trouble when they pull antics ON THEIR PLAYERS without gaining their respect. I remember when Marty Mornhinweg tried to prove a point by kicking all of his players out of the first practice or something like that. It just comes across corny. I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, but all indications are that the players love Harbaugh. It's just a far cry from the Nolan/Singletary days (aka "the dark times").

    BTW I'm a Bruin so I despise Pete Carroll. :D
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  • I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

    so,

    Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.
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  • nsport wrote:
    FrankTheTank21 wrote:LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

    After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

    I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.


    Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

    In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

    You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!


    Brilliant!
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  • Smellyman wrote:I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

    so,

    Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.



    LOL this post made me laugh.
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  • Smellyman wrote:I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

    so,

    Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.


    Thread over.
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  • This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

    The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

    Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

    Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

    Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

    Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.
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  • ...to further your point, those QBs Pete had, 1st rounders or not, were basically crap. He tapped every bit of talent they had and that's why they continue to fail miserably at the next level. They left it all at SC. Luck would have won 2 or 3 nattys with Pete and if I recall, I don't think Luck liked Harbaugh either.
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  • Further, Harbaugh only had 2 bowl appearances. Never a champion. He got destroyed by Oklahoma in his first bowl game and destroyed by chip Kelly the next year leading to a cream puff orange bowl against Virginia tech (while Oregon played in the BCS championship). While he was bragging about his win over USC, Carroll was laughing because the little putz never even took the Pac 10 from Oregon.

    Harbaugh has never won a championship in a major league. He's always been a second place runner up. A wanna be. He never even won the Pac 10.

    Chip Kelly yawns when you mention his name. Don James can't hear you because all those rose bowl trophies are in the way. And Pete Carroll is too busy getting the last laugh while others continue to argue his USC teams as the greatest of all time.
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  • And I'm gonna put it out here right now:

    Harbaugh is going to bail at the first sign of adversity in San Francisco. He's going to jump ship, like he always has. Find a team with more talent looking for a coach, and run for the hills. The man has never stood with any team for more than a few years. Never coached or led anyone through hardship or to a championship.

    You Niner fans can quote me. Harbaugh is a b!$#@h. You watch what happens when Kaepernick gets injured or y'all have a losing season. A tiger can't change its stripes.
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  • I respect Harbaugh as far as a coach. He ain't no Mike Singletary. I don't know if his personality grinds on his players or not. Listening to Kap in an interview is just like listening to Harbaugh, imo, so maybe the players and the coach are cut from the same mold.

    The thing that makes me think that he is the same card table flipping crazy man is his antics on the sideline. He looks like a card table flipping maniac.

    I think that he was already pre-disposed to be the way he is, but I also think that he respects Mike Ditka and Ditka was the same way on the sideline.
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  • HansGruber wrote:And I'm gonna put it out here right now:

    Harbaugh is going to bail at the first sign of adversity in San Francisco. He's going to jump ship, like he always has. Find a team with more talent looking for a coach, and run for the hills. The man has never stood with any team for more than a few years. Never coached or led anyone through hardship or to a championship.

    You Niner fans can quote me. Harbaugh is a b!$#@h. You watch what happens when Kaepernick gets injured or y'all have a losing season. A tiger can't change its stripes.


    Exactly and I've said this since his hiring. The stakes are now too high for Harbaugh. He used to just flip cards, now he's building houses with them. The implosion is coming.

    I can only laugh at the 9er fans, so shallow that they think we loathe this cartoon because he's their coach (WTF?). Look through all the threads sheeple. Count how many you see like this about Fisher or any other coaches (not named Shanahan) we compete against. Revolt now!
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  • Comeinpeace wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:Any whiner fans gonna jump in here and defend this clown?

    I didnt think so.

    Harbaugh seems to have the maturity of an 11 year old boy.

    And thats pushing it.


    Ok, I typically stay away from these sort of topics and stay in NFL talk, but since you requested, I will oblige.

    I love Harbaugh. He is extremely intelligent and everything he does has a motive behind it. He takes no s*** from nobody and supports his players no matter what. The greater percentage of people outside of the 49ers organization and fanbase dislike him. But guess what, the opinion of opposing fans means absolutely nothing and the opinion of opposing coaches means absolutely nothing. All that matters to him is the success of his team and the organization. He loves his players and his players love him.

    I love his attitude and how he keeps the attention of the media on him instead of the players. The media is trying to get to Kap, but Harbaugh is keeping the attention on him.

    His sideline antics show his passion. I wish I could find people as passionate about their job as he is about his. His reactions are extreme because he cares. He cares about his team and his players. If you have issues with that, than you have issues with yourself.


    Love how 9er fans casually dismiss psychotic behavior mixed with telltale signs of asperger syndrom as passion.
    "I cannot believe this............ I am stunned right now. This is now a rebuilding year for us. Our offense is crap now"

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  • Harbaugh seems like the type of guy who randomly challenges other dudes to arm wrestling contests.
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  • HansGruber wrote:This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

    The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

    Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

    Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

    Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

    Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.




    I understand the Harbaugh hate, but I think you've gone to great lengths to downplay his accomplishments.

    Harbaugh didn't have Andrew Luck his first year. Tavita Pritchard was the QB, and he beat USC in the Coliseum when Stanford was a 41-point underdog.

    I don't understand the Alex Smith point. Harbaugh revived his moribund career. He doesn't get any credit for developing him as a player?

    Harbaugh never faced adversity? Taking over a floundering program that was 1-11 the year before he got there isn't adversity? Chip Kelly was the head coach of Oregon for 4 years, same number of years as Harbaugh. Kelly was about to get hit with a show-cause penalty after the recruiting scandal, but you don't seem to be accusing him of jumping ship. BTW he took over a solid program that Mike Belotti shepherded for a long time. I'm not downplaying his accomplishments. I'm just pointing out that the situations at Stanford and Oregon were not analogous.

    How does a team go from 1-11 to 12-1 in a power conference with "garbage" recruiting? How does that happen?

    Pete Carroll's run at SC was legendary. He took over for Paul "Can't" Hackett, and returned SC to glory. Carroll is unquestionably a Hall of Fame coach. However, SC is a traditional power. Stanford isn't. Harbaugh's achievements at Stanford shouldn't be dismissed.
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  • HawkWow wrote:...to further your point, those QBs Pete had, 1st rounders or not, were basically crap. He tapped every bit of talent they had and that's why they continue to fail miserably at the next level. They left it all at SC. Luck would have won 2 or 3 nattys with Pete and if I recall, I don't think Luck liked Harbaugh either.



    Carroll had multiple 4 or 5-star QBs at USC every season. Star rankings aren't a definitive gauge of success, but they weren't short on talent.

    When does a coach get credit for development?

    I've never heard anything about Luck not liking Harbaugh. I've heard a lot of the opposite, though.

    Regardless, what does it matter? Luck chose to play for Harbaugh, and he enjoyed great success with him.
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  • I guess I have to write off 49er fans as delusional.

    Case in point.

    If you ask around here, people will pretty much unanimously agree that Jim Mora was a terrible coach, and not a good person, either, throwing players under the bus both during his tenure and after.

    I think you'll also find that people will pretty much unanimously agree that Mike Holmgren was a great football coach, but a terrible evaluator of talent and he did a piss poor job in the front office.

    How hard would it be to say, as a 49er fan, that Jim Harbaugh has some personality and behavior issues, but is apparently a good motivator and coach? Seems to me that this would be accurate, and not all that hard to say...

    All this defending of Jim Harbaugh as some sort of ninth dimensional chess act like this to draw off the media type of deal is just delusional and makes the 49er fanbois look like, well, fanbois.

    BTW, I agree with some of the other posters here as well, I think Jim runs away at the first sign of adversity... if the 49ers implode on the field, or there's some incident with the assistant coaches pushing back that leaks from the locker room, he's gone. If he gets an opportunity to go elsewhere, he will. I think ultimately he can't stand the heat, which is ironic, in that his public persona is that of a man who loves the biggest challenges. I think his great displays of frustration will ultimately be his undoing... that and his ridiculous hubris.
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  • HansGruber wrote:This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

    The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

    Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

    Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

    Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

    Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.



    Great read! :snack:
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  • BocciHawk wrote:I guess I have to write off 49er fans as delusional.

    Case in point.

    If you ask around here, people will pretty much unanimously agree that Jim Mora was a terrible coach, and not a good person, either, throwing players under the bus both during his tenure and after.

    I think you'll also find that people will pretty much unanimously agree that Mike Holmgren was a great football coach, but a terrible evaluator of talent and he did a piss poor job in the front office.

    How hard would it be to say, as a 49er fan, that Jim Harbaugh has some personality and behavior issues, but is apparently a good motivator and coach? Seems to me that this would be accurate, and not all that hard to say...

    All this defending of Jim Harbaugh as some sort of ninth dimensional chess act like this to draw off the media type of deal is just delusional and makes the 49er fanbois look like, well, fanbois.

    BTW, I agree with some of the other posters here as well, I think Jim runs away at the first sign of adversity... if the 49ers implode on the field, or there's some incident with the assistant coaches pushing back that leaks from the locker room, he's gone. If he gets an opportunity to go elsewhere, he will. I think ultimately he can't stand the heat, which is ironic, in that his public persona is that of a man who loves the biggest challenges. I think his great displays of frustration will ultimately be his undoing... that and his ridiculous hubris.



    I don't think any 9er fans care about that stuff. Until his behavioral "problems" cost us in the locker room or on the field consistently, it's nothing more than pop psychology fare on message boards.

    And I don't understand this "quitter" notion. When has he quit in his coaching career? Why would he go somewhere else when he's found a franchise QB?

    With Wilson and Kaepernick under center, I think the Seahawks and 49ers are going to be really good for a long time.
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  • Harbaugh is such an unlikable douche.
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  • FrankTheTank21 wrote:But what shenanigans are we talking about?

    Punching Jim Kelly 20 years ago? Flipping over card tables during poker games with the Bears? Slapping Jim Schwartz on the back?

    I'm just not sure how that relates to his interaction with his players. I think coaches get in trouble when they pull antics ON THEIR PLAYERS without gaining their respect. I remember when Marty Mornhinweg tried to prove a point by kicking all of his players out of the first practice or something like that. It just comes across corny. I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, but all indications are that the players love Harbaugh. It's just a far cry from the Nolan/Singletary days (aka "the dark times").

    BTW I'm a Bruin so I despise Pete Carroll. :D


    It's the entirety of everything. You can boil it down to even the last 7 days. Complaining about the QB hitting rules like a baby, responding to the fight on the sidelines after the late hit on Kaepernick, the very unreasonable arguing and emotional outbursts on the sidelines during a game. It's all pretty ridiculous.

    I really think that most people here actually like him as a football brain and even a "short term motivator" - but his personality, his antics, and his track record are something that are just inexcusable in my humble opinion. Honestly, I think I'd be embarrassed to have him is the coach of my favorite team (if I was a Niner fan).
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  • FrankTheTank21 wrote:But what shenanigans are we talking about?

    Punching Jim Kelly 20 years ago? Flipping over card tables during poker games with the Bears? Slapping Jim Schwartz on the back?

    I'm just not sure how that relates to his interaction with his players. I think coaches get in trouble when they pull antics ON THEIR PLAYERS without gaining their respect. I remember when Marty Mornhinweg tried to prove a point by kicking all of his players out of the first practice or something like that. It just comes across corny. I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, but all indications are that the players love Harbaugh. It's just a far cry from the Nolan/Singletary days (aka "the dark times").

    BTW I'm a Bruin so I despise Pete Carroll. :D


    It's the entirety of everything. You can boil it down to even the last 7 days. Complaining about the QB hitting rules like a baby, responding to the fight on the sidelines after the late hit on Kaepernick, the very unreasonable arguing and emotional outbursts on the sidelines during a game. It's all pretty ridiculous.

    I really think that most people here actually like him as a football brain and even a "short term motivator" - but his personality, his antics, and his track record are something that are just inexcusable in my humble opinion. Honestly, I think I'd be embarrassed to have him is the coach of my favorite team (if I was a Niner fan).
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  • FrankTheTank21 wrote:I understand the Harbaugh hate, but I think you've gone to great lengths to downplay his accomplishments.

    Harbaugh didn't have Andrew Luck his first year. Tavita Pritchard was the QB, and he beat USC in the Coliseum when Stanford was a 41-point underdog.

    I don't understand the Alex Smith point. Harbaugh revived his moribund career. He doesn't get any credit for developing him as a player?

    Harbaugh never faced adversity? Taking over a floundering program that was 1-11 the year before he got there isn't adversity? Chip Kelly was the head coach of Oregon for 4 years, same number of years as Harbaugh. Kelly was about to get hit with a show-cause penalty after the recruiting scandal, but you don't seem to be accusing him of jumping ship. BTW he took over a solid program that Mike Belotti shepherded for a long time. I'm not downplaying his accomplishments. I'm just pointing out that the situations at Stanford and Oregon were not analogous.

    How does a team go from 1-11 to 12-1 in a power conference with "garbage" recruiting? How does that happen?

    Pete Carroll's run at SC was legendary. He took over for Paul "Can't" Hackett, and returned SC to glory. Carroll is unquestionably a Hall of Fame coach. However, SC is a traditional power. Stanford isn't. Harbaugh's achievements at Stanford shouldn't be dismissed.


    Ha ha ha, cute post. I especially enjoyed the part about Harbaugh taking Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1. Too bad that never happened, woulda made a great story.

    In fact, in Harbaugh's 4 seasons at Stanford, they looked like this:

    2007: 4-8, 7th place in the Pac 10
    2008: 5-7, 6th place in Pac 10
    2009: 8-5, 2nd place in Pac 10, lost bowl game to Oklahoma
    2010: 12-1, 2nd place in Pac 10, beat VA Tech in Orange Bowl

    LOL. And even though he was just a flash in the pan, he still doesn't have the career win percentage of Carroll. Doesn't even come close actually. His career record? 29-21, win pct of .580. Carroll was 90-21, win pct of .811. Any argument about where they started would actually favor Carroll because he inherited a program that was in worse shape and had little funding, where Harbaugh came into a program with a newly renovated stadium and a huge influx of donations to the athletic programs including massive funding for scholarships and facilities. That stuff was done before he even got there.

    One thing you have to give him credit for, in four short seasons, he was able to lose as many games as Carroll did in his entire career at USC.

    Carroll's assistant coaches have actually had greater success than Harbaugh. He knows that and it drives him nuts.

    Even funnier is that he was a colossal douchebag at Stanford, and was making highly questionable statements to the press from day one, like this little gem:
    "Pete Carroll's only got one more year, though. He'll be there one more year. That's what I've heard. I heard it inside the staff." (In fact, Carroll would be at USC for three more years.)
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  • Are we really debating Harbaugh's college coaching career? Dude turned Stanford into a physical team. Of course I cant back that up with numbers, I simply watched the games and grew up with Pac-10 football. Anyone that converts Stanford into a power-rush, physical team, is a savant. Harbaugh IS a savant.

    Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a good coach, hell yes. But, I need to see a bit more before I call him legendary. He's a brilliant running game tactician, simply genius. But, I need to see him do that without being handed a ready made offensive line and RB, a bit.
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  • HansGruber wrote:Ha ha ha, cute post. I especially enjoyed the part about Harbaugh taking Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1. Too bad that never happened, woulda made a great story.

    In fact, in Harbaugh's 4 seasons at Stanford, they looked like this:

    2007: 4-8, 7th place in the Pac 10
    2008: 5-7, 6th place in Pac 10
    2009: 8-5, 2nd place in Pac 10, lost bowl game to Oklahoma
    2010: 12-1, 2nd place in Pac 10, beat VA Tech in Orange Bowl



    In Walt Harris's last year (2006), Stanford went 1-11.

    How was my statement wrong?
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  • pehawk wrote:Are we really debating Harbaugh's college coaching career? Dude turned Stanford into a physical team. Of course I cant back that up with numbers, I simply watched the games and grew up with Pac-10 football. Anyone that converts Stanford into a power-rush, physical team, is a savant. Harbaugh IS a savant.

    Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a good coach, hell yes. But, I need to see a bit more before I call him legendary. He's a brilliant running game tactician, simply genius. But, I need to see him do that without being handed a ready made offensive line and RB, a bit.


    A physical team? What makes you say that? Not trying to attack you, I'm honestly curious how you'd define Stanford as "physical".

    I watched their games as well, am a Pac 10 football fanatic. Luck used his size advantage to scramble effectively and Fleener often won his matchups, was able to use his size to break tackles and gain yards, but it's not like they had some bruising run offense that could wear you down. That's why they got stomped by Oregon in 2010. They just didn't have the size or physicality to run at Oregon and control the clock, and their defense just wasn't stout enough to slow down Oregon's offense, so Oregon was able to come back in that game and then just blow them out. That lack of physicality was really apparent when Auburn put a beating on Oregon's offense, the contrast of those games really shows the difference (in 2010) between the Pac-10 and SEC.
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  • Their offense was a lot closer to SF's than the Colt's current offense. And, it was indeed physical for Stanford. He added a toughness.

    I respect the hell our of Harbaugh.
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  • FrankTheTank21 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Ha ha ha, cute post. I especially enjoyed the part about Harbaugh taking Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1. Too bad that never happened, woulda made a great story.

    In fact, in Harbaugh's 4 seasons at Stanford, they looked like this:

    2007: 4-8, 7th place in the Pac 10
    2008: 5-7, 6th place in Pac 10
    2009: 8-5, 2nd place in Pac 10, lost bowl game to Oklahoma
    2010: 12-1, 2nd place in Pac 10, beat VA Tech in Orange Bowl



    In Walt Harris's last year (2006), Stanford went 1-11.

    How was my statement wrong?


    Harbaugh didn't take that team from 1-11 to 12-1. He took them from 1-11 to 4-8, then started with a new QB, and took them from 4-8 to 5-7. In year 3, Luck was already obviously the best QB in college football and they still only got from 5-7 to 8-5 and it wasn't that impressive. It wasn't until Harbaugh's final year they finally got from 8-5 to 11-1. And that was after 2 years of playing in the weakest PAC-10 in history, weaker than the ACC, weaker than any division in the NCAA. And they still didn't win anything meaningful. Unless you were impressed by that weak bowl game against a cream puff VA Tech (gimme a break). There's a reason the AP & BCS didn't take Stanford seriously. Sorry that your 49er homerism prevents you from seeing that truth.

    And I think you know how your statement is dishonest, or at the least, not quite the way you're trying to present it.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Are we really debating Harbaugh's college coaching career? Dude turned Stanford into a physical team. Of course I cant back that up with numbers, I simply watched the games and grew up with Pac-10 football. Anyone that converts Stanford into a power-rush, physical team, is a savant. Harbaugh IS a savant.

    Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a good coach, hell yes. But, I need to see a bit more before I call him legendary. He's a brilliant running game tactician, simply genius. But, I need to see him do that without being handed a ready made offensive line and RB, a bit.


    A physical team? What makes you say that? Not trying to attack you, I'm honestly curious how you'd define Stanford as "physical".

    I watched their games as well, am a Pac 10 football fanatic. Luck used his size advantage to scramble effectively and Fleener often won his matchups, was able to use his size to break tackles and gain yards, but it's not like they had some bruising run offense that could wear you down. That's why they got stomped by Oregon in 2010. They just didn't have the size or physicality to run at Oregon and control the clock, and their defense just wasn't stout enough to slow down Oregon's offense, so Oregon was able to come back in that game and then just blow them out. That lack of physicality was really apparent when Auburn put a beating on Oregon's offense, the contrast of those games really shows the difference (in 2010) between the Pac-10 and SEC.


    um...huh?

    In 2012 they ran for 2440 yards. In 2011 they ran for 2738 yards. In 2010 they ran for 2779 yards. In 2009 they ran for 2837 yards.

    What on earth are you talking about? The Harbaugh offense is all about the run game. If you don't know that they you haven't been paying attention. Andrew Luck got the pub, but that was a RUNNING team. Especially with Gerhart. Jeez...they guy had 1800 plus yards and 27 TDs for cryin' out loud.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    FrankTheTank21 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Ha ha ha, cute post. I especially enjoyed the part about Harbaugh taking Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1. Too bad that never happened, woulda made a great story.

    In fact, in Harbaugh's 4 seasons at Stanford, they looked like this:

    2007: 4-8, 7th place in the Pac 10
    2008: 5-7, 6th place in Pac 10
    2009: 8-5, 2nd place in Pac 10, lost bowl game to Oklahoma
    2010: 12-1, 2nd place in Pac 10, beat VA Tech in Orange Bowl



    In Walt Harris's last year (2006), Stanford went 1-11.

    How was my statement wrong?


    Harbaugh didn't take that team from 1-11 to 12-1. He took them from 1-11 to 4-8, then started with a new QB, and took them from 4-8 to 5-7. In year 3, Luck was already obviously the best QB in college football and they still only got from 5-7 to 8-5 and it wasn't that impressive. It wasn't until Harbaugh's final year they finally got from 8-5 to 11-1. And that was after 2 years of playing in the weakest PAC-10 in history, weaker than the ACC, weaker than any division in the NCAA. And they still didn't win anything meaningful. Unless you were impressed by that weak bowl game against a cream puff VA Tech (gimme a break). There's a reason the AP & BCS didn't take Stanford seriously. Sorry that your 49er homerism prevents you from seeing that truth.

    And I think you know how your statement is dishonest, or at the least, not quite the way you're trying to present it.


    Again...HUH?

    The team was 1-11 when he took it over. They were 12-1 the last year he was there. He took the team from 1-11 to 12-1.

    Not complicated.

    Trying to paint what he did at Stanford as anything other than miraculous is comical.
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  • The best line of this thread? A reference to Oregon's "size and physicality".
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  • pehawk wrote:The best line of this thread? A reference to Oregon's "size and physicality".


    LOL. :D

    It sounds like someone has the teams in reverse.

    Team SPEED is what killed at Oregon...and thats one reason why Chip Kelly in Philly scares me a bit. They have some of the horses to make that thing go.
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  • pehawk wrote:The best line of this thread? A reference to Oregon's "size and physicality".


    Whoever said Oregon had size or physicality? If you're referring to my post, you should go back and re-read it and you'll find that I said Auburn was a physical team that dominated Oregon due to a lack of size and physicality on Oregon's team. I'm getting very bored of you trying to misquote every single one of my posts because you have some trollish vendetta against me. I accepted it in the Shack, but we're in the main forum. Go back to the Shack if you want to troll.


    I also find it hilarious that some 49er moron is quoting stats from 2011 and 2012 to talk about Harbaugh's Cardinal team. Typical of a Niners fan. Probably doesn't realize Harbaugh wasn't there.


    Further, hilarious argument that running yards = physicality. And then you say Oregon wasn't physical. Of course, you probably don't realize that Oregon had far more rushing yards than Stanford every single year that Harbaugh and Gerhart were there. Does that mean Oregon is more physical? Was Oregon a physical team?

    Funniest of all, go to this site and look for yourself at rushing totals per season, with all Div-1a teams ranked:

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... /year/2007
    Woops. Stanford at 103, with 1334 total yards. According to this chart, Navy and Air Force were the most physical teams in NCAA football that year. :lol:

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... /year/2008
    Uh oh. Stanford up a bit at 31, but still behind #3-ranked Oregon, #1-ranked Navy, #4-ranked Nevada (a spread offense, but they were apparently far more physical than Stanford), and those physical powerhouses at New Mexico, TCU, Ball State, Connecticut, Air Force, etc.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... /year/2009
    Well, Stanford's up to #10 in 2009, but still behind #1 Nevada, Oregon, TCU, Navy, Air Force, and Fresno State. None of whom would be considered "physical", but uh... yeah.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... /year/2010
    Back down to #18 in 2010. What I find hilarious about this year is that right above Stanford in the physicality rankings in Virginia Tech. If I have to explain why that's funny, you probably don't watch college football anyway, so why bother. Hilarious that once again, Oregon is up at #5.


    According to the 49er geniuses here, that would make Oregon more of a "physical" offense than Stanford every single year that Harbaugh was coaching.

    But wait a second... didn't they run the notorious Chip Kelly spread offense? And how about Nevada? They ranked consistently in the top-5 as well. I thought they were a spread offense, too?

    Well, yes sir, they were. See, that's kind of the point of a spread offense. It allows runners to take advantage of less men along the defensive front and pick up a lot of yards. Kind of like how Stanford played with those 4-receiver sets and double-TE's, with Luck scrambling out of the backfield and throwing on the move quite a bit.

    This is almost too easy. It's not fair, really.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Are we really debating Harbaugh's college coaching career? Dude turned Stanford into a physical team. Of course I cant back that up with numbers, I simply watched the games and grew up with Pac-10 football. Anyone that converts Stanford into a power-rush, physical team, is a savant. Harbaugh IS a savant.

    Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a good coach, hell yes. But, I need to see a bit more before I call him legendary. He's a brilliant running game tactician, simply genius. But, I need to see him do that without being handed a ready made offensive line and RB, a bit.


    A physical team? What makes you say that? Not trying to attack you, I'm honestly curious how you'd define Stanford as "physical".

    I watched their games as well, am a Pac 10 football fanatic. Luck used his size advantage to scramble effectively and Fleener often won his matchups, was able to use his size to break tackles and gain yards, but it's not like they had some bruising run offense that could wear you down. That's why they got stomped by Oregon in 2010. They just didn't have the size or physicality to run at Oregon and control the clock, and their defense just wasn't stout enough to slow down Oregon's offense, so Oregon was able to come back in that game and then just blow them out. That lack of physicality was really apparent when Auburn put a beating on Oregon's offense, the contrast of those games really shows the difference (in 2010) between the Pac-10 and SEC.
    Last edited by pehawk on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • pehawk wrote:The best line of this thread? A reference to Oregon's "size and physicality".


    I love how you consistently open your mouth and remove all doubt. You really do my work for me. See above post and get back to me on the Oregon thing and how rushing yards equate to physicality.

    And I'm dying to hear your thoughts on how Auburn consistently ranked lower than both Oregon and Stanford in rushing yards, which must mean Auburn was less "physical". Right?
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  • Umm, are you really going to sit here and say Oregon running backs are "similar" to, I don't know, Gerheart?

    If you cant see the difference between Harbaugh's power running game and Oregon's spread running game, then, yeah. Okay, I'll just say you're right?
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  • pehawk wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Are we really debating Harbaugh's college coaching career? Dude turned Stanford into a physical team. Of course I cant back that up with numbers, I simply watched the games and grew up with Pac-10 football. Anyone that converts Stanford into a power-rush, physical team, is a savant. Harbaugh IS a savant.

    Do I like him? No. Do I think he's a good coach, hell yes. But, I need to see a bit more before I call him legendary. He's a brilliant running game tactician, simply genius. But, I need to see him do that without being handed a ready made offensive line and RB, a bit.


    A physical team? What makes you say that? Not trying to attack you, I'm honestly curious how you'd define Stanford as "physical".

    I watched their games as well, am a Pac 10 football fanatic. Luck used his size advantage to scramble effectively and Fleener often won his matchups, was able to use his size to break tackles and gain yards, but it's not like they had some bruising run offense that could wear you down. That's why they got stomped by Oregon in 2010. They just didn't have the size or physicality to run at Oregon and control the clock, and their defense just wasn't stout enough to slow down Oregon's offense, so Oregon was able to come back in that game and then just blow them out. That lack of physicality was really apparent when Auburn put a beating on Oregon's offense, the contrast of those games really shows the difference (in 2010) between the Pac-10 and SEC.


    Physical teams like Auburn have defenses that can shut down the run. They have DEs that can dominate at the OL and shutdown an entire offensive game plan - see last few BCS championships for examples. Auburn, Alabama and Texas are teams that I would call "physical". Harbaugh-era Stanford?
    :roll:

    Stanford was completely unable to shutdown Oregon's pass attack, the rush, anything. They got absolutely destroyed by Oregon's offense. I was at that game. It was a joke. Stanford had the lead and should have won, but instead, Oregon started picking off your boy Luck, started smacking around that Stanford offense like a pee-wee team. Stanford made Oregon look like Auburn on defense. Then Oregon's offense would get back on the field and put up another 7 points in less than a minute. It's kinda what put Chip Kelly's offense in the national spotlight and the reason they went to the BCS Championship in 2010. If you actually watched college football that year, you would already know that, and it's amazing to me that you would even argue it.

    Further, it's hilarious to me that you would argue that Stanford was a "physical" team. Tells me you didn't even watch them play. Sure, they weren't Nevada or Oregon, they weren't running some crazy spread offense all the time, but they were more spread than old-school SEC smash-mouth football. In fact, in 2010, that was the argument - that the PAC-10 was all soft, no physicality anywhere (which wasn't true - Cal and USC were physical teams that could beat you with defense). I'm literally stunned that you're trying to argue the opposite. It's actually pretty funny.
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  • Umm, yeah, I think you should probably stop now Hans. I know you think its cool to attack me and stuff on other life issues, but with football, you're out of your depths. You just are, really.

    Stanford/Harbaugh runs from traditional I or split sets, with close to 50% of those runs, coming off the A gap. That means power run game. And, the fact you're mixing and comparing conferences, is well, again, you should really stop. I'm being honest.

    I respect the hell out of what Harbaugh did. Again, he converted a team populated solely of engineers and pre-med students run into a power running game. I apologize if you took me sticking up for that personal or as trolling, but, I would've interjected regardless of who said it on the main forum. It makes us all look bad.
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  • come on guys, let's get things back on track.
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  • pehawk wrote:Umm, are you really going to sit here and say Oregon running backs are "similar" to, I don't know, Gerheart?

    If you cant see the difference between Harbaugh's power running game and Oregon's spread running game, then, yeah. Okay, I'll just say you're right?


    Say whatever you want. I'm saying Stanford was not a "physical" team, they were not a physical offense, and you have yet to show how they would fall into that category.

    Gerhart was tall and put up a lot of rushing yards. Ok. And TCU put up more. So did Navy and Air Force. And a handful of other teams that were anything but "power running" teams. I'm telling you the "power rush" thing was nonsense, and hype.

    Go back and look at Stanford's 2010 schedule and results. They were putting up 40 points a game. They could run because people were scared of Luck. Luck could scramble and throw on the run, or he could kill you from within the pocket. It's a whole lot easier to run when everyone is expecting you to throw for 400-500 yards a game.

    Take Stanford out of the butter-soft Pac-10 and they weren't so "physical". You want to explain what happened against Oklahoma in 2009? That was their only "physical" opponent from 09-10, and they got whooped. How do you explain those losses to TCU in 2007 and 2008? Those were another of their very few non-PAC10 games, and they got owned and that "power rush" was nowhere to be found. Or how about Notre Dame in 2007? They couldn't put up more than 14 there, either.

    Physical teams don't put up 40 every week, face one strong run team, and suddenly collapse. Just because the press called Harbaugh's run offense a "power rush" that doesn't suddenly make them physical. You prove your physicality by winning those non-conference games, by running even when you face a great defense.

    Let's go back to the Oregon-Stanford matchup. Stanford put up 170 yards rushing to Oregon's 380. LaMichael James, who you just said was not a physical back, ran for 257 yards against Stanford by himself. How is that physical? Just a few weeks after that, Auburn totally shutdown Oregon's offense, and specifically their run game. How do you correlate that?
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  • Back on track.....Harbaughs a douchebag
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