PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades

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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:47 am
  • bellingerga wrote:I don't get why people are so pissed at Breno. As far as I remember, he got beat... once, maybe twice but I only remember once. I don't even remember hearing about him the entire rest of the game except when dude got frustrated and punched him in the face......

    I will rewatch the game on NFL Game Rewind, but this sounds to be like the haters are just looking for a reason to dislike Breno.


    That's just it, once or twice turns into "all game". He gave up the sack/fumble and so that sticks in everybody's mind but really he played well most of the game, best I could tell.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:49 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:Going to be some growing pains with KJ at a new position.


    According to Wagner he played the same position (WILL) in the nickle package last year. So there shouldn't be that much in terms of "Growing pains."


    Playing every down in the base defense as a WILL and in the nickel is just different. The biggest issue for KJ right now is he has to think through it, whereas he was more instinctive as a SAM. Hence, growing pains.

    It's not a negative or a knock, it's the reality. Just like there will be growing pains when Bruce Irvin gets back and plays SAM. Guys are learning new positions and new roles and it takes some time to flourish.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:So I guess my first impression was correct, but my overall impression was that our secondary did a good job. Strange then, that our LBers and a DB get the worst ratings.


    Wright/Wags mostly graded poorly in run defense. They were closer to middle-of-the-road in pass coverage. I think this is somewhat to be expected vs. a read-option QB. There's a lot more hesitation/decision-making involved in defending running plays with a mobile QB. Thurmond was the only player on defense to get a really bad score in pass coverage. I initially thought he did okay, but Steve Smith was certainly having his way with someone early on in the game.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 am
  • bellingerga wrote:I don't get why people are so pissed at Breno. As far as I remember, he got beat... once, maybe twice but I only remember once. I don't even remember hearing about him the entire rest of the game except when dude got frustrated and punched him in the face......

    I will rewatch the game on NFL Game Rewind, but this sounds to be like the haters are just looking for a reason to dislike Breno.


    I actually like Breno and I was very critical of his performance yesterday. It seemed like his side of the line was getting pushed back into the pocket consistently. He's a mauler in run blocking (usually) but his pass blocking was very poor yesterday.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:18 am
  • DavidSeven wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:So I guess my first impression was correct, but my overall impression was that our secondary did a good job. Strange then, that our LBers and a DB get the worst ratings.


    Wright/Wags mostly graded poorly in run defense. They were closer to middle-of-the-road in pass coverage. I think this is somewhat to be expected vs. a read-option QB. There's a lot more hesitation/decision-making involved in defending running plays with a mobile QB. Thurmond was the only player on defense to get a really bad score in pass coverage. I initially thought he did okay, but Steve Smith was certainly having his way with someone early on in the game.



    Just because Newton had less than 200 yards passing doesn't mean our secondary did a great job. He completed 64% of his passes. I think we would have lost had CAR not come out with an ultra vanilla game plan on offense.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:36 am
  • lukerguy wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:So I guess my first impression was correct, but my overall impression was that our secondary did a good job. Strange then, that our LBers and a DB get the worst ratings.


    Wright/Wags mostly graded poorly in run defense. They were closer to middle-of-the-road in pass coverage. I think this is somewhat to be expected vs. a read-option QB. There's a lot more hesitation/decision-making involved in defending running plays with a mobile QB. Thurmond was the only player on defense to get a really bad score in pass coverage. I initially thought he did okay, but Steve Smith was certainly having his way with someone early on in the game.



    Just because Newton had less than 200 yards passing doesn't mean our secondary did a great job. He completed 64% of his passes. I think we would have lost had CAR not come out with an ultra vanilla game plan on offense.


    I don't know if they did a great job, but they certainly did a good job in limiting big plays, which is the philosophical hallmark of a Pete Carroll team. Carolina did an okay job of moving the ball, but they never broke Seattle's D. Cam was limited to fewest passing yards of his career in spite of his completion %. Gotta credit Seattle's secondary at least some for that, though I'm sure Carolina's play-calling didn't help.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:36 am
  • lukerguy wrote:Just because Newton had less than 200 yards passing doesn't mean our secondary did a great job. He completed 64% of his passes. I think we would have lost had CAR not come out with an ultra vanilla game plan on offense.


    Yeah, for less than 8 yards a pop.
    In Wilson's worst game as a pro he completed just 9 passes for as many yards as Newton managed yesterday
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:51 am
  • lukerguy wrote:Just because Newton had less than 200 yards passing doesn't mean our secondary did a great job. He completed 64% of his passes. I think we would have lost had CAR not come out with an ultra vanilla game plan on offense.

    64% of his passes for 5.4 yards per pass. It's easy to complete passes when they're practically all checkdowns. Besides, completion percentage and YPA are inflated with mobile QBs like Newton and Wilson, because when there's no one open, they will scramble instead of throwing it away. Sometimes they get sacked or get tackled for a loss, but that doesn't show up in their passer stats.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:52 am
  • Interesting..... The oline had to preform much better this upcoming weekend if we even have a chance against the niners
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:53 am
  • I noticed bryant, whenever they ran right the hole wasn't even close to as big as it was on the other side. Schoefield wasn't even close to as good holding the edge. I really hope Clem can play sunday, as least Avril
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:55 am
  • do u have a snap count for Mcquistan and sweezy?
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:51 pm
  • Here is the thing that I hate about their grading and I know these situations are hard to quantify:

    Kearse gets a 0.0 for catching the game winning TD on a magnificent grab.
    Lynch gets a -3.1 for the game sealing key run to not give them the ball back.
    Thomas gets a -.3 for making causing the potentially game saving fumble.

    Tough for me to accept that those 3 plays alone do not warrant high grades purely for their key contribution to this tough win.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:57 pm
  • How do they come up with these ridiculous numbers?
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 pm
  • bellingerga wrote:I don't get why people are so pissed at Breno. As far as I remember, he got beat... once, maybe twice but I only remember once. I don't even remember hearing about him the entire rest of the game except when dude got frustrated and punched him in the face......

    I will rewatch the game on NFL Game Rewind, but this sounds to be like the haters are just looking for a reason to dislike Breno.


    I just rewatched the game for the third time. I still havent watched all-22 (its not released yet).

    From what I have seen, once again, .net over-reacts to anything Breno. Breno had a good game yesterday with a few bad plays. Plus, him and Unger seem to have to switch off giving extra support to Sweezy. Ever since the beginning of last year with Breno getting some flags thrown, this board has hated him with a passion and seem to think he is horrible. He is pretty damn good. Amazing in teh run game, and above average in pass support. His hard hitting till the whistle tenacity is what sometimes gets him trouble, but that what helps make this team good.

    But this will all be taken with a grain of salt, because like I said, .net doesnt care and wants to hate him for some reason.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:37 pm
  • bellingerga wrote:I don't get why people are so pissed at Breno. As far as I remember, he got beat... once, maybe twice but I only remember once. I don't even remember hearing about him the entire rest of the game except when dude got frustrated and punched him in the face......

    I will rewatch the game on NFL Game Rewind, but this sounds to be like the haters are just looking for a reason to dislike Breno.

    +1 for Breno. I like him, and didn't think he did as bad as everyone else. PFF backs up my opinion. Though, I am surprised he was in the positives.

    Poor poor Beast Mode.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:12 pm
  • Turbin had one of the biggest runs of the day on a 3rd down play to set up our only TD, yet he scores negative? What is with all the Turbin hate on this board? I'm not just talking about this one topic. I continue to hear people bringing him down on this board. Its like you all expect us to have a Jerry friggin Rice caliber player at every position. All Turbin did was average 4 1/2 yards per carry as a ROOKIE. We should be damn grateful to have such a talented RB backing up Beast Mode.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:14 pm
  • OreIdahawk wrote:Turbin had one of the biggest runs of the day on a 3rd down play to set up our only TD, yet he scores negative? What is with all the Turbin hate on this board? I'm not just talking about this one topic. I continue to hear people bringing him down on this board. Its like you all expect us to have a Jerry friggin Rice caliber player at every position. All Turbin did was average 4 1/2 yards per carry as a ROOKIE. We should be damn grateful to have such a talented RB backing up Beast Mode.


    That score is from PFF, not this board.

    And I dont hear the hate you hear. People are high on Michael, but no one has ever called Turbin a slouch.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:31 pm
  • I get down on Breno because i think he is our worst starting lineman. And, I don't mind the occassional whistle for playing hard (regardless of whether it is on Breno or Sweezy). It seems to me that more often than not, when RW is running for his life, it is Breno's man coming through. That may not have been the case last Sunday, because I honestly saw people coming through everywhere (I also don't believe that Breno was that much better than everyone else).

    I also blame RW for some of that pressure. (The pressure on the unreal pass and catch to Doug Baldwin was really caused by RW dropping way, way too deep. No way breno or Okung could stop their guys from sprinting past them when they did not know that RW was 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage.)
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:37 pm
  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:How do they come up with these ridiculous numbers?


    Nobody outside of PFF knows the answer.

    The Pro Football Focus rating system is built on subjective judgments. Suggestions that it rubs up against science or math are designed to facilitate subscription sells and build site traffic. PFF has, to my knowledge, never completed a meaningful public disclosure of methods or algorithms.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:54 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    CALIHAWK1 wrote:How do they come up with these ridiculous numbers?


    Nobody outside of PFF knows the answer.

    The Pro Football Focus rating system is built on subjective judgments. Suggestions that it rubs up against science or math are designed to facilitate subscription sells and build site traffic. PFF has, to my knowledge, never completed a meaningful public disclosure of methods or algorithms.



    IF you read it, its a play by play analysis. And its actually pretty smart and simple. You get a + point for doing something amazing. You get a zero grade for doing your job normally, and you get a - point for missing your assignment. Pretty simple and smart if you ask me. then they just take your number of plays and divide for the average. There is a small amount of subjectiveness, but as its been stated, if the evaluator cant tell if you played your assignment correctly, then you just get a 0 (which does nothing to effect your grade). AND lets say your lynch, and you get stuffed behind the line, but it was obvious that its because a lineman missed his block and a defender crashed down on you, you will just get a 0 and not a - point because it wasnt your fault.

    I actually like it very much, because its quite simple but accurate in measuring your average play throughout the game.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:31 pm
  • bellingerga wrote:I don't get why people are so pissed at Breno. As far as I remember, he got beat... once, maybe twice but I only remember once. I don't even remember hearing about him the entire rest of the game except when dude got frustrated and punched him in the face......

    I will rewatch the game on NFL Game Rewind, but this sounds to be like the haters are just looking for a reason to dislike Breno.

    Dude going off on him is a victory for Breno--getting into a mofo's head out there, pushing him around.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:41 pm
  • Cartire wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    CALIHAWK1 wrote:How do they come up with these ridiculous numbers?


    Nobody outside of PFF knows the answer.

    The Pro Football Focus rating system is built on subjective judgments. Suggestions that it rubs up against science or math are designed to facilitate subscription sells and build site traffic. PFF has, to my knowledge, never completed a meaningful public disclosure of methods or algorithms.



    IF you read it, its a play by play analysis. And its actually pretty smart and simple. You get a + point for doing something amazing. You get a zero grade for doing your job normally, and you get a - point for missing your assignment. Pretty simple and smart if you ask me. then they just take your number of plays and divide for the average. There is a small amount of subjectiveness, but as its been stated, if the evaluator cant tell if you played your assignment correctly, then you just get a 0 (which does nothing to effect your grade). AND lets say your lynch, and you get stuffed behind the line, but it was obvious that its because a lineman missed his block and a defender crashed down on you, you will just get a 0 and not a - point because it wasnt your fault.

    I actually like it very much, because its quite simple but accurate in measuring your average play throughout the game.


    Good post. The only thing I question is if their grades are based on the All-22 tape or the TV feed. I always assumed it was from the All-22 tape, but these grades seemed to come out before that was made available to the media (or do they have super early access?).
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:14 pm
  • DavidSeven wrote:
    Good post. The only thing I question is if their grades are based on the All-22 tape or the TV feed. I always assumed it was from the All-22 tape, but these grades seemed to come out before that was made available to the media (or do they have super early access?).


    Its suppose to be the All-22 because they grade every player, every play. Which would be impossible without All-22. I'm not sure if/how they get it early.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:41 pm
  • Earl got a negative score? Didn't he force the fumble? Or did they credit Sherman?
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:42 pm
  • Cartire wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    CALIHAWK1 wrote:How do they come up with these ridiculous numbers?


    Nobody outside of PFF knows the answer.

    The Pro Football Focus rating system is built on subjective judgments. Suggestions that it rubs up against science or math are designed to facilitate subscription sells and build site traffic. PFF has, to my knowledge, never completed a meaningful public disclosure of methods or algorithms.



    IF you read it, its a play by play analysis. And its actually pretty smart and simple. You get a + point for doing something amazing. You get a zero grade for doing your job normally, and you get a - point for missing your assignment. Pretty simple and smart if you ask me. then they just take your number of plays and divide for the average. There is a small amount of subjectiveness, but as its been stated, if the evaluator cant tell if you played your assignment correctly, then you just get a 0 (which does nothing to effect your grade). AND lets say your lynch, and you get stuffed behind the line, but it was obvious that its because a lineman missed his block and a defender crashed down on you, you will just get a 0 and not a - point because it wasnt your fault.

    I actually like it very much, because its quite simple but accurate in measuring your average play throughout the game.


    I've read it. They have a simple point assignment convention used in conjuction with a limited collection of subjective judgements. It certainly doesn't exhaust all grading considerations or weights or styles of play. Its attraction is its simplicity.

    They also glance over other considerations ... to avoid confusion and keep their presentation simple.

    What I am attempting to convey is that PFF is not the definitive authority.
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:49 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    I've read it. They have a simple point assignment convention used in conjuction with a limited collection of subjective judgements. It certainly doesn't exhaust all grading considerations or weights or styles of play. Its attraction is its simplicity.



    We get, yada yada. It is simple, but a valid grading system to judge how a player played in a particular game. Not necessarily his skill compared to the rest. And honestly, its fine. Because guess what, the top dogs try and make their own rating systems that factor every aspect of everything, and it still gets scrutinized and ridiculed. And why? Because Football is very hard to quantify with Sabermetrics. The variables are so vast, and the amount of data available for each conceivable situation is so small, that it just cant be perfect. QBR and DVOA I think have great return for their numbers. Yet they are scrutinized constantly.

    So lets get off the high-and-mighty horse and appreciate someone even taking the time to systematically record every down, for every player, in a timely manner and assign a grade. I watch the All-22, and rewatch games like a champ. Ive seen sundays game 4 times now, and have watched 5 others games as well. And I can tell you that I have not studied every single player on every single play. So I appreciate when someone takes the time too.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:59 pm
  • I think many place far too much weight on PFF numbers as a starting point for inferences.

    However, PFF and this site exist for entertainment purposes only.

    From time to time we all lose track of that fact. LOL
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:10 pm
  • minormillikin wrote:Earl got a negative score? Didn't he force the fumble? Or did they credit Sherman?


    The Seahawks credited Earl Thomas with the forced fumble. He also lead both teams in tackles during the Carolina game. NFL.com numbers: 8 tackles, 2 assists, 1 force fumble.

    Don't know about how PFF arrived at that negative number for Earl. :229031_shrug: Since it comes from an entertainment site, it just might be a tiny bit suspect. LOL
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:08 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    minormillikin wrote:Earl got a negative score? Didn't he force the fumble? Or did they credit Sherman?


    The Seahawks credited Earl Thomas with the forced fumble. He also lead both teams in tackles during the Carolina game. NFL.com numbers: 8 tackles, 2 assists, 1 force fumble.

    Don't know about how PFF arrived at that negative number for Earl. :229031_shrug: Since it comes from an entertainment site, it just might be a tiny bit suspect. LOL


    Chances are, on all those plays, he got high marks. But remember, ET plays every down, so its very reasonable to believe that he may have screwed up on plays where it didnt matter.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:51 pm
  • Cartire wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    minormillikin wrote:Earl got a negative score? Didn't he force the fumble? Or did they credit Sherman?


    The Seahawks credited Earl Thomas with the forced fumble. He also lead both teams in tackles during the Carolina game. NFL.com numbers: 8 tackles, 2 assists, 1 force fumble.

    Don't know about how PFF arrived at that negative number for Earl. :229031_shrug: Since it comes from an entertainment site, it just might be a tiny bit suspect. LOL


    Chances are, on all those plays, he got high marks. But remember, ET plays every down, so its very reasonable to believe that he may have screwed up on plays where it didnt matter.

    I can understand how PFF loyalists and subscribers might cling to such a notion.
    After all, it was on the internet. And anything on the internet must be true. LOL
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:13 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    Cartire wrote:Chances are, on all those plays, he got high marks. But remember, ET plays every down, so its very reasonable to believe that he may have screwed up on plays where it didnt matter.

    I can understand how PFF loyalists and subscribers might cling to such a notion.
    After all, it was on the internet. And anything on the internet must be true. LOL


    Im neither a loyalist or a subscriber. But Im also a realist. And so far, your only argument is to make fun of it. Sound rebuttal there. You have given no facts, data, or even your own analysis, but you sure seem determined to devalue something because you dont like its outcomes.

    You are just like a lot of people though. You make up your own analysis over your own assumptions, and then ridicule anything that disagrees with that. You should take the time yourself and show us your grades. I would love the chance to pick apart everything you have said and laugh at you, cause you know, its on the internet.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:24 pm
  • Cartire wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    Cartire wrote:Chances are, on all those plays, he got high marks. But remember, ET plays every down, so its very reasonable to believe that he may have screwed up on plays where it didnt matter.

    I can understand how PFF loyalists and subscribers might cling to such a notion.
    After all, it was on the internet. And anything on the internet must be true. LOL


    Im neither a loyalist or a subscriber. But Im also a realist. And so far, your only argument is to make fun of it. Sound rebuttal there. You have given no facts, data, or even your own analysis, but you sure seem determined to devalue something because you dont like its outcomes.

    You are just like a lot of people though. You make up your own analysis over your own assumptions, and then ridicule anything that disagrees with that. You should take the time yourself and show us your grades. I would love the chance to pick apart everything you have said and laugh at you, cause you know, its on the internet.

    The subject wasn't about you or me.
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    Jville
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:34 pm
  • minormillikin wrote:Earl got a negative score? Didn't he force the fumble? Or did they credit Sherman?


    Didn't Earl miss the tackle at first but caught up to Williams and stripped it but only after Sherman had already hit Williams?..

    I've seen them on twitter when discussing Earl, they don't rate him as high because of his bad tackling. They had him ranked 39th out of all safeties, which is why I don't take they're grading seriously..
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    Killa Kam
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:08 pm
  • DavidSeven wrote:OFF:

    Coleman 2.4
    Russell Wilson 2.2
    Baldwin 2.0
    Giacomini 1.8

    Tate 0.8
    Rice 0.7
    Kearse 0.0
    Ware 0.0
    Turbin -0.2
    Person -0.9
    Okung -1.2
    Unger -1.3
    Miller -1.4
    Stephen Williams -1.6
    Sweezy -2.0
    Luke Willson -2.0
    McQuistan -2.2
    Carpenter -2.3
    Lynch -3.1


    So yeah, Carp didn't play too well. McQ, however, was basically just as bad. Rough day for the O-line overall (except Breno).

    DEF:

    Bryant 2.0
    Maxwell 1.9
    Sherman 1.8

    D'Anthony Smith 0.7
    Chancellor 0.6
    Malcom Smith 0.5
    Maragos 0.0
    Mayowa 0.0
    McDaniel 0.0
    Mebane -0.1
    Thomas -0.3
    Schofield -0.5
    Bennett -0.6
    Morgan -1.0
    Wagner -1.6
    Thurmond -2.0
    Wright -2.9


    Link?
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    Sturm
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Re: PFF Week 1 Seahawks Grades
Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:15 pm
  • Sturm wrote:Link?


    Someone posted the bare numbers on Twitter. You need a subscription with ProFootballFocus to get their full analysis of the game. Here's their more general recap of the game if you're interested.
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    DavidSeven
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