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 Post subject: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:51 pm 
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But I have liked what I have seen from Winston Guy the past two games. Just sayin.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Man, I hate the guy for his hits in practice, but he is making up for it on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:01 pm 
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He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Too bad he only does it against the third teamers.

He will be cut.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Was gonna post this earlier.He has looked legit since we were dogging on him after week two.He must be a .NETer.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Honestly, I don't get any of the praise being sent his way. 75% of the plays he's involved in, he's cleaning up someone else's good play. He's also extremely one dimensional, he's a thumper, but that's it, he couldn't cover a WR to save his life. And he honestly tends to Whiff more than he hits, he tries too hard to make the "big play". Anytime he get's within arms length of a defender, he acts like he just decleated the guy.

Too inconsistent, liability at practice and on the field, suspended 4 games last year for PED's, easy decision for me.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Looked like the primary backup SS tonight especially. Even did his Pred thing on the field after that dumpoff. I thought he looked like he was quite a bit better than Johnson tonight, who looked a little slow and took a bad angle on Pryor in particular. Speed is one thing, but the misjudged angle was a big no no, IMO.


Last edited by vin.couve12 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:11 pm 
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vin.couve12 wrote:
Looked like the primary backup SS tonight especially. Even did his Pred thing on the field after that dumpoff. I thought he looked like he was quite a bit better than Johnson tonight, who looked a little slow and took a bad angle on Pryor especially. Speed is one thing, but the misjudged angle was a big no no, IMO.


Have you tried to antisipate the angle on a guy that runs a 4.3 40.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:13 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


:?:

:1:

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:13 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
vin.couve12 wrote:
Looked like the primary backup SS tonight especially. Even did his Pred thing on the field after that dumpoff. I thought he looked like he was quite a bit better than Johnson tonight, who looked a little slow and took a bad angle on Pryor especially. Speed is one thing, but the misjudged angle was a big no no, IMO.


Have you tried to antisipate the angle on a guy that runs a 4.3 40.

Yes, in fact, I have. Angle becomes exponentially more important. Especially with the sideline as the extra defender.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Well I have also and a misstep or a second of thought and they will be gone. A fast QB or RB or WR like that will make a lot of people look slow, besides the Free Safety is suppose to come down once he commits, we don't know Jerons first responsibility, you have to be aware of the dump or crossing patterns that Pryor could throw to as well.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:20 pm 
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It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:23 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Well I have also and a misstep or a second of thought and they will be gone. A fast QB or RB or WR like that will make a lot of people look slow, besides the Free Safety is suppose to come down once he commits, we don't know Jerons first responsibility, you have to be aware of the dump or crossing patterns that Pryor could throw to as well.


I have no agenda here. I'd like to keep both as well as Shead, who I think has very high upside, even though Shead isn't going to beat out Maragos as that "practiced" backup center fielder. Jeron has been the more consistent performer previously, but IMO Guy looked more decisive and thus faster today. It's an observation that I believe has some merit. This team is too talented to take sides. If guys show up they show up and there is no question I'd like to keep too many players on this roster. Both Jeron and Winston included, but Guy flashed through my TV screen tonight a few times a la Kam.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:29 pm 
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vin.couve12 wrote:
Looked like the primary backup SS tonight especially. Even did his Pred thing on the field after that dumpoff. I thought he looked like he was quite a bit better than Johnson tonight, who looked a little slow and took a bad angle on Pryor in particular. Speed is one thing, but the misjudged angle was a big no no, IMO.



Actually Jeron took TWO bad angles on Pryor. Came free on a blitz and had him dead to rights in the backfield, then Pryor separated him from his jockstrap.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:30 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


KCHawkGirl you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or are you always this horrible?


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:06 pm 
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bellingerga wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


KCHawkGirl you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or are you always this horrible?


I'm trying to figure out what the hell she was even trying to convey


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:14 pm 
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She doing the cynicism shuffle.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:23 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


I definitely agree with the 2nd part but Guy's probably done here. Jeron and Maragos are both smarter players.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:25 pm 
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The problem I have is that at some point you have to judge people on results.

I have no problem calling out mistakes, so long as you recognize successes too.

The other week Guy shot forward and put tried to shoulder tackle a guy going into the end zone. It would have been a terrible tackle because it wasn't wrapping anything up but since he was defending the end zone I could see him taking a risk to try to jar the ball loose. Which is exactly what happened. Sure he got lucky, but a wrap up wouldn't have done much good either - the receiver already had the ball and had momentum.

Now Guy made a few overly aggressive plays and he did some things that might get a penalty. But he also flew to the ball, was physical against the run and did a pretty good job locating the ball in the air. His actual best position is probably SS, so Ken Hamlin comparison is not far off. That said he isn't a complete liability in coverage either, he just is not stellar. But he is physical.

So give the guy credit for a good game. Some of the other players made mistakes in judgement that led to taking poor angles that let guys break free. He didn't. He actually did a decent job. And he is clearly getting better and making less mistakes with time.

Is he good enough to stick on the roster? Not unless he has any eligibility left for PS. Is he good enough to stick somewhere else? Absolutely. Buffalo needs secondary bad. So do about 5+ other teams, in fact the 49ers still need help there.

So all the Guy hate is ridiculous, he got better, had a good game and whether it was skill, or luck, or someone sacrificing baby goats on the rooftops to an ancient dark lord - somehow he did some good things out there. It isn't unreasonable to give him credit for that.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:45 pm 
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bellingerga wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


KCHawkGirl you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or are you always this horrible?

Just trying to convey he isn't as bad as some people think. Probably doesn't make this team but he will make another team and probably be a starter. This kind of thing is the downside of being a fan of an elite team. I just don't like the tone of the criticism of him some are taking.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:59 am 
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Maybe on another team Guy would be safe, but this team is just too stacked with quality DB's for him to make the squad I think.

IMO he shouldn't still be making the same mistakes in year #2. If you didn't know him, you'd think he was a rookie. Still looks like the game is moving too fast for Guy to catch up.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:12 am 
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I actually think Maragos will be the odd man out. His veteran minimum is too much to pay for a special teams guy. With all the other DBs that have more potential, it would a waste of money to keep him.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:19 am 
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rideaducati wrote:
I actually think Maragos will be the odd man out. His veteran minimum is too much to pay for a special teams guy. With all the other DBs that have more potential, it would a waste of money to keep him.


He's the only FS behind Earl Thomas though and he's solid.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:20 am 
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Chill out, KCFakegirl. Hernia might have been a bit curt, but his point is a very valid one. Guy will likely be cut and will likely end up on one of those two teams, as SF has a need at the position, and the Jags have our old D-coordinator who seems to like snapping up our cast-offs. i don't think it was necessarily an indictment of Guy's play necesarily, as much as it was an acknowledgement that he's likely to be the odd man out this season and will end up on another team.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:35 am 
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Guy's game is kinda like Loutulelie's game . . . Looks good in preseason because it suits individual effort. Reckless, out of control, big plays that stand out . . . But also selfish. A guy who will be out of position too often, and whose stupid penalties, including needless celebrations of the self, will get the team in trouble.

Yesterday was no different. He was fortunate that his reckless play led him into plays rather than past them, but he was still reckless and selfish. And frankly, he got a lot of credit on the broadcast for mop up tackles that other players made the play.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:48 am 
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vin.couve12 wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
vin.couve12 wrote:
Looked like the primary backup SS tonight especially. Even did his Pred thing on the field after that dumpoff. I thought he looked like he was quite a bit better than Johnson tonight, who looked a little slow and took a bad angle on Pryor especially. Speed is one thing, but the misjudged angle was a big no no, IMO.


Have you tried to antisipate the angle on a guy that runs a 4.3 40.

Yes, in fact, I have. Angle becomes exponentially more important. Especially with the sideline as the extra defender.


Incorrect. You don't want to let a guy with speed get outside of you, as he'll do what Pryor did, then get out of bounds without getting touched. You play a sideline angle to force him back inside to your own pursuit. Johnson looked like he took a poor angle because he misjudged Pryor's speed, but in that case you don't use the sideline as a defender with that much field to play with.

You have to force him back inside where more guys can get to him. NEVER let speed get outside of you. The defense is weakest there.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:09 am 
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I'm not going to comment on the quality or precision of his play, but Guy definitely popped on the field tonight. He seemed to be everywhere. There was one sequence where he was in the mix every single play for about six or seven plays in a row. Sure he was probably out of position for some of those plays, and might have been late on some of those plays, but he gets to the football with energy every time.

He may very well not stick on our roster but he will show up on someone else's, and I give him a good chance of being a starter somewhere if he continues to develop.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:22 am 
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Hawks46 wrote:
vin.couve12 wrote:
chris98251 wrote:

Have you tried to antisipate the angle on a guy that runs a 4.3 40.

Yes, in fact, I have. Angle becomes exponentially more important. Especially with the sideline as the extra defender.


Incorrect. You don't want to let a guy with speed get outside of you, as he'll do what Pryor did, then get out of bounds without getting touched. You play a sideline angle to force him back inside to your own pursuit. Johnson looked like he took a poor angle because he misjudged Pryor's speed, but in that case you don't use the sideline as a defender with that much field to play with.

You have to force him back inside where more guys can get to him. NEVER let speed get outside of you. The defense is weakest there.

Nice try, but you don't seem to be following along with what actually happened. He had the sideline and still let him get around and outside of him. You sure you just don't want to argue about something?


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:25 am 
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The weird part is why everyone won't just give him credit for a good game.

Here is the deal, I believe he was something like a 5th or 6th round pick. We have had him for 2 years?

During that time he was on the PS, which means he was working hard or they wouldn't keep him and it means that his effort was making our other players better. He has been a Seahawk for us, worked hard for us and should get some credit for that.

Yes, he had a few plays in camp that were reckless and maybe even dirty. But it is clear that he is still finding himself and so to compensate is a little bit exuberant. And that is where 30% of this weird hate comes from, people don't like him because he looks awkward on some backstage video thing.

But he hasn't cost us anything in games that any of our other backups haven't, he made a lot of plays in that last game and deserves credit for it.

I just find it odd that people want him to play better and then when he does, they won't even give him credit for it. They have their mind made up about the guy and like to throw stones at him for really no reason other than to be a whipping post. He isn't Chris #*(@#$ Massey out there, he is a kid that was on the PS that is trying his best to make a team that is so talented at his position he has little shot. But the "I can't wait for that guy to be gone" stuff is frankly weird.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:34 am 
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hawkfan68 wrote:
It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".

Listening to him talk, you can also see he's not that bright. He played better, but I don't see how he can make the team with the talent in the secondary.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:37 am 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
Chill out, KCFakegirl. Hernia might have been a bit curt, but ...... i don't think it was necessarily an indictment of Guy's play necesarily, as much as it was an acknowledgement that he's likely to be the odd man out this season and will end up on another team.



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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:06 am 
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The reaction to this is.....interesting. It really has much to do with the vast majority of the human population having the propensity to accept what is considered a known vs actually having to review empirical evidence and have to formulate an analysis.

There's always the next game, people.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:12 am 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Sports Hernia wrote:
He'll be a jag or a ninnie by week 1

Monumentaly stupid thinking in my opinion, But shortsighted thinking is legal in this country, in fact I would argue it's the expected baseline.


Would you have preferred the poster to have written, " In my humble opinion, Winston really hasn't shown enough improvement to warrant a roster spot this year." "A trend that's been occuring this year (though I'm sure it's more of a coincidence and/or because of talent evaluation) are ex Seahawk players being claimed by the Jacksonville Jaguars or the San Francisco 49ers.

Just because the execution of their post may be in poor taste, doesn't mean that the idea behind it is shortsided or stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:35 am 
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chris98251 wrote:
we don't know Jerons first responsibility, .


Someone else gets it

We don't know what his assignment is.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:40 am 
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Guy had a good game last night. He took full advantage with his last opportunity this preseason.

Will he make the team? Well that depends on what the Special teams coach has to say.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:15 pm 
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UGotHawked wrote:
But I have liked what I have seen from Winston Guy the past two games. Just sayin.


I believe given a chance people would learn to like Winston! He can play at this level the only question is will it be with this team.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:10 pm 
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C-Dub wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".

Listening to him talk, you can also see he's not that bright. He played better, but I don't see how he can make the team with the talent in the secondary.


Because great football players are all really articulate and well spoken. I'm not sure that I am willing to make a judgement on the guy's football intelligence based on the way he talks. I'm just not that talented.

I guess I just disagree with most here. We are not talking about a starter, but a backup SS to Kam. Me personally, I would rather have the guy who is more talented and coach him up, than a guy who gets left wheezing an athletic QB's dust on two separate plays. I just hope people are as tolerant if Jeron is in the game when SEA sees Cam Newton or Kapersnacks twice. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:44 pm 
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UGotHawked wrote:
C-Dub wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".

Listening to him talk, you can also see he's not that bright. He played better, but I don't see how he can make the team with the talent in the secondary.


Because great football players are all really articulate and well spoken. I'm not sure that I am willing to make a judgement on the guy's football intelligence based on the way he talks. I'm just not that talented.

I guess I just disagree with most here. We are not talking about a starter, but a backup SS to Kam. Me personally, I would rather have the guy who is more talented and coach him up, than a guy who gets left wheezing an athletic QB's dust on two separate plays. I just hope people are as tolerant if Jeron is in the game when SEA sees Cam Newton or Kapersnacks twice. :roll:


Jeron played against Newton and Kaepernick last year. He didn't seem to have a problem. Jeron doesn't celebrate a routine play like it was the biggest thing to ever have happened. Guy seems to think making a simple tackle is the cause for a huge celebration. Act like you've been there before. As for stupid penalties, Guy is sure to make at least one a game. He's like Breno on defense and special teams. It's over-aggression and he's doing it in practice too. Somebody valuable will get hurt because of his recklessness. That's not a good thing. Dude needs to learn to control himself better. He is a good player, no doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:00 pm 
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UGotHawked wrote:
C-Dub wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".

Listening to him talk, you can also see he's not that bright. He played better, but I don't see how he can make the team with the talent in the secondary.


Because great football players are all really articulate and well spoken. I'm not sure that I am willing to make a judgement on the guy's football intelligence based on the way he talks. I'm just not that talented.

I guess I just disagree with most here. We are not talking about a starter, but a backup SS to Kam. Me personally, I would rather have the guy who is more talented and coach him up, than a guy who gets left wheezing an athletic QB's dust on two separate plays. I just hope people are as tolerant if Jeron is in the game when SEA sees Cam Newton or Kapersnacks twice. :roll:


Your making a judgement on Johnson without watching Guy having the same chance, Johnson may have missed, but given Guys record of going for the big score or hit I would think he may over commit and completly take him self out of the play hoping for a highlight hit,Johnson missed but then again Pryor has a whole scrapebook of making guys miss. I'll take smarter and someone that will learn or practice contain while waiting for help to arrive then someone that loves to take chances hoping that he makes the play, which is how I see Guy right now, not saying he can't improve, but he's record to date doesn't imply thats his style.

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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:22 pm 
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UGotHawked wrote:
C-Dub wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
It's a numbers game and Guy makes stupid mistakes each time. He did another one on ST tonight. He's just not bright enough to "get it".

Listening to him talk, you can also see he's not that bright. He played better, but I don't see how he can make the team with the talent in the secondary.


Because great football players are all really articulate and well spoken. I'm not sure that I am willing to make a judgement on the guy's football intelligence based on the way he talks. I'm just not that talented.

I guess I just disagree with most here. We are not talking about a starter, but a backup SS to Kam. Me personally, I would rather have the guy who is more talented and coach him up, than a guy who gets left wheezing an athletic QB's dust on two separate plays. I just hope people are as tolerant if Jeron is in the game when SEA sees Cam Newton or Kapersnacks twice. :roll:



...and speaking of Cam. I'd like Winston Guy a lot more if he didn't celebrate every half tackle like he was Superman. The dude is fighting for a roster spot but conducts himself like he's the second coming of Ray Lewis. Like Barry Sanders once said "act like you've been there before".

I will credit him with some good plays this pre-season and trust the FO to make the right call. I'm fine with or without him.


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 Post subject: Re: I know he is much maligned on here
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:25 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
Chill out, KCFakegirl. Hernia might have been a bit curt, but his point is a very valid one. Guy will likely be cut and will likely end up on one of those two teams, as SF has a need at the position, and the Jags have our old D-coordinator who seems to like snapping up our cast-offs. i don't think it was necessarily an indictment of Guy's play necesarily, as much as it was an acknowledgement that he's likely to be the odd man out this season and will end up on another team.



...."frosting a cake with a paper knife". ;)


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