A quick thought

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A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:56 am
  • I've been super busy with non-football things lately, and I ran out of time to finish my DVR review tonight. I did chart the first half yesterday evening though, and wanted to quickly share a few things really quick.

    -Michael Bennett was a STUD. I can't believe I didn't notice him almost at all during the game.

    -Jordan Hill had a ton of pressures and had arguably the best game of all our rookies.

    -Jesse Williams sucked horribly. Colin Cole cubed.

    -Michael Bowie looked very good.

    -Alvin Bailey looked even better than that.

    I'll post all the notes and details when I finish it (sometime soon I hope). I just wanted to get that off my chest in case it takes forever to get around to it.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:54 am
  • Agreed on all fronts, only remember one play where Jesse Williams beat his man.

    Thought Bailey had the best game by a rookie by a wide margin, only remember one hiccup in his game, where a safety hopped to the side of his block and tackled Michael the play right before the final TD. Other than that saw him blow people off the line pretty consistently and give up no room in pass pro.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:02 am
  • Our tackle situation is so good. I think we carry 4, and it makes Breno expendable. I know that pisses off the Breno guys, but I think the dude lacks as a pass blocker against power rushers. And is in a contract year.

    Micheal Bennett is awesome. Doesn't he have a shoulder labrum issue? OUr resident Niner lurkers have been know to say this makes it impossible to to get sacks. Derp.

    I like the Jordan Hill pick, and if he can be a laterally quick rusher it will like a cheap Henry Melton.

    Jesse Williams. He is a study in how big a leap it is to the pros. His strength does not matter now, his lack of technique does. Funny how the pick that the pundits loved the most may be the worse pick.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:17 am
  • I LOLed when I read subject title and saw who the author is :D :th2thumbs: Thanks for being part of .net kearly :179422:
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:22 am
  • Williams looks like Lo Jack.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:40 am
  • This is unacceptable; we are really going to need your A-game out their this year Kearly. Really need ya to buy in and commit to the program or we will have to trade ya. :lol:

    I agree w/ everything there but for one caveat. I think Williams has all the pre-reqs but may be one of those players that takes a couple years to get trained up.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:12 am
  • Jesse Williams is going to need to figure it out fast for us. Our depth at the LDT position is rather slim,though I assume there are number of players sliding around at points.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:18 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:Our tackle situation is so good. I think we carry 4, and it makes Breno expendable. I know that pisses off the Breno guys, but I think the dude lacks as a pass blocker against power rushers. And is in a contract year.

    Micheal Bennett is awesome. Doesn't he have a shoulder labrum issue? OUr resident Niner lurkers have been know to say this makes it impossible to to get sacks. Derp.

    I like the Jordan Hill pick, and if he can be a laterally quick rusher it will like a cheap Henry Melton.

    Jesse Williams. He is a study in how big a leap it is to the pros. His strength does not matter now, his lack of technique does. Funny how the pick that the pundits loved the most may be the worse pick.

    Why would the DT situation have anything to do with Breno?
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:32 am
  • KCHawkGirl wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Our tackle situation is so good. I think we carry 4, and it makes Breno expendable. I know that pisses off the Breno guys, but I think the dude lacks as a pass blocker against power rushers. And is in a contract year.

    Micheal Bennett is awesome. Doesn't he have a shoulder labrum issue? OUr resident Niner lurkers have been know to say this makes it impossible to to get sacks. Derp.

    I like the Jordan Hill pick, and if he can be a laterally quick rusher it will like a cheap Henry Melton.

    Jesse Williams. He is a study in how big a leap it is to the pros. His strength does not matter now, his lack of technique does. Funny how the pick that the pundits loved the most may be the worse pick.

    Why would the DT situation have anything to do with Breno?


    Offensive tackle. Although I'm not sure who the four are that exclude Breno. Okung, Bowie, Bailey and ????
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:36 am
  • Breno is not going anywhere.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:37 am
  • All the missed time in camp has definitely impacted Williams.

    Welcome to the NFL, rook. Now it's time to develop technique...you can't just get away with being the big strong dude like you did in college.

    Let's give him some time...
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:41 am
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Jesse Williams is going to need to figure it out fast for us. Our depth at the LDT position is rather slim,though I assume there are number of players sliding around at points.

    Yeah, I'm not sure who we have on the DT spot to stop the run, other than McDonald and Mebane .
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:42 am
  • KCHawkGirl wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Our tackle situation is so good. I think we carry 4, and it makes Breno expendable. I know that pisses off the Breno guys, but I think the dude lacks as a pass blocker against power rushers. And is in a contract year.

    Micheal Bennett is awesome. Doesn't he have a shoulder labrum issue? OUr resident Niner lurkers have been know to say this makes it impossible to to get sacks. Derp.

    I like the Jordan Hill pick, and if he can be a laterally quick rusher it will like a cheap Henry Melton.

    Jesse Williams. He is a study in how big a leap it is to the pros. His strength does not matter now, his lack of technique does. Funny how the pick that the pundits loved the most may be the worse pick.

    Why would the DT situation have anything to do with Breno?


    He meant "Offensive Tackle" situation. Which is what Okung and Breno play.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:44 am
  • Breno got owned by Dwight Freeney, yes I realize Freeney is on another level but still.

    I've also never been a big fan of his I guess I'll wait and see what happens in the season.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:34 am
  • FlyingGreg wrote:All the missed time in camp has definitely impacted Williams.

    Welcome to the NFL, rook. Now it's time to develop technique...you can't just get away with being the big strong dude like you did in college.

    Let's give him some time...

    That's the thing, he's not an anchor player due to those chicken legs. He's a 1 gapper that needs to play 3 or 5 to be effective, but even then...at Bama I saw those legs get buckled. All that said, lets wait and see ....
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:38 am
  • Pete Carroll singled out Jesse Williams as having a good game. He did exactly what they asked him to do. He took on a lot of double teams to allow others to make plays. Williams will never have the wow plays but that is not how the coaches plan on using him.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:42 am
  • If he continues to be ineffective, I wonder if there's any chance they put Jesse Williams on the "return to season later IR list", let his knee recover more from his surgery last year, and perhaps he will be more effective later in the year with more time to heal.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:43 am
  • warden wrote:Pete Carroll singled out Jesse Williams as having a good game. He did exactly what they asked him to do. He took on a lot of double teams to allow others to make plays. Williams will never have the wow plays but that is not how the coaches plan on using him.


    Don't underestimate the power of coach psychology, especially in the pre-season. Pete is very smart...he may have said that just as a way to keep Williams head up and moving forward.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:45 am
  • oasis wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Jesse Williams is going to need to figure it out fast for us. Our depth at the LDT position is rather slim,though I assume there are number of players sliding around at points.

    Yeah, I'm not sure who we have on the DT spot to stop the run, other than McDonald and Mebane .
    How did McDaniel look by the way?


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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:50 am
  • Kearly, I'm curious as to how you chart games. Are you charting situations, personnel and outcomes, or do you do more of a classic scoring chart?
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:24 am
  • warden wrote:Pete Carroll singled out Jesse Williams as having a good game. He did exactly what they asked him to do. He took on a lot of double teams to allow others to make plays. Williams will never have the wow plays but that is not how the coaches plan on using him.


    What! Are you trying to say Pete Carroll knows more about football than our resident, "experts"? Blasphemy! :les:
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:28 am
  • Glad I'm not crazy. Alvin Bailey looked awesome but I felt like Bowie was doing a great job as well
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:53 am
  • We should be talking more about the linebackers. I feel like the group is suddenly one of the deepest on the squad. Bradford, Lotulelei and Powell may put Schofield, Farwell, Smith and Morgan on the streets and out of a job.

    Bradford closes on the ball so fast and explodes into the tackle. Bradford could end up replacing KJ Wright down the line. Lotulelei diagnoses the play really well and could fill in for Bobby Wagner in a pinch. Looked excellent in ST. I didn't like what I saw from Powell on drops but I thought he did nicely against the run and playing near the LOS. You could really see his size leap out on screen and showed a decent pass rush. Maybe he rotates with Bruce Irvin at SAM.

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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:56 am
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    warden wrote:Pete Carroll singled out Jesse Williams as having a good game. He did exactly what they asked him to do. He took on a lot of double teams to allow others to make plays. Williams will never have the wow plays but that is not how the coaches plan on using him.


    What! Are you trying to say Pete Carroll knows more about football than our resident, "experts"? Blasphemy! :les:


    I am waiting to see what Kearly has to say on Williams, but I don't see it. William was high effort, high motor and drew double teams often when playing with the ones. Any man that can take on two opponents is earning his pay out there, even if he gets pancaked in the process like Williams did. I saw him raise his arms to mess with the qb and get pissed when he was about to get beat by a runner, both good signs in my book.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:57 am
  • SDHawk wrote:We should be talking more about the linebackers. I feel like the group is suddenly one of the deepest on the squad. Bradford, Lotulelei and Powell may put Schofield, Farwell, Smith and Morgan on the streets and out of a job.

    Bradford closes on the ball so fast and explodes into the tackle. Bradford could end up replacing KJ Wright down the line. Lotulelei diagnoses the play really well and could fill in for Bobby Wagner in a pinch. Looked excellent in ST. I didn't like what I saw from Powell on drops but I thought he did nicely against the run and playing near the LOS. You could really see his size leap out on screen and showed a decent pass rush. Maybe he rotates with Bruce Irvin at SAM.

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    Do not count out Schofield
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:58 am
  • warden wrote:
    SDHawk wrote:We should be talking more about the linebackers. I feel like the group is suddenly one of the deepest on the squad. Bradford, Lotulelei and Powell may put Schofield, Farwell, Smith and Morgan on the streets and out of a job.

    Bradford closes on the ball so fast and explodes into the tackle. Bradford could end up replacing KJ Wright down the line. Lotulelei diagnoses the play really well and could fill in for Bobby Wagner in a pinch. Looked excellent in ST. I didn't like what I saw from Powell on drops but I thought he did nicely against the run and playing near the LOS. You could really see his size leap out on screen and showed a decent pass rush. Maybe he rotates with Bruce Irvin at SAM.

    WLB: KJ Wright | Allen Bradford
    ILB: Bobby Wagner | John Lotuleilei
    SAM: Bruce Irvin | Ty Powell



    Do not count out Schofield


    I think his salary is his worst enemy. Same with Farwell.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:16 am
  • Hmmmm...yeah, I mentioned Williams bad technique in an earlier post and was crucified, but whatever, we will see. If we do keep Williams, it says a lot about his potential. After all, he has a bum knee and needs rest in order to play. Every roster spot counts and keeping a run plugger who misses practice and has raw form...that's a big commitment.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:21 am
  • If Bailey and Bowie continue to play well, then I would say either McQuistan or Giacomini will have to play for their jobs.

    McQuistan is a super sub, but if Bailey demonstrates he can back up Okung, then his value is severely curtailed. We have a glut of OGs on this roster. I don't see us paying 3M this year for McQuistan if there were any other player capable of being the LT backup. His salary reflects being really the only good LT alternative.

    I liked Mayowa's burst. It's one thing to hear of it from coaches. It's equally exciting to hear from it from the bystander view in training camp. To have it confirmed multiple times in a game kind of leaves one wanting to see more. I understand the difference in competition level. But that ability to close the distance to the QB is a quality not all DEs possess.

    I liked the quality this team has in it's depth. These guys are going to play this year. By design and necessity. I would not at all be surprised if Seattle leverages this depth by cutting some starters.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:30 am
  • Remember that Williams hasn't been playing football all that long and is possibly a bit of a project.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:13 pm
  • kearly wrote:I've been super busy with non-football things lately, and I ran out of time to finish my DVR review tonight. I did chart the first half yesterday evening though, and wanted to quickly share a few things really quick.

    -Michael Bennett was a STUD. I can't believe I didn't notice him almost at all during the game.

    -Jordan Hill had a ton of pressures and had arguably the best game of all our rookies.

    -Jesse Williams sucked horribly. Colin Cole cubed.

    -Michael Bowie looked very good.

    -Alvin Bailey looked even better than that.

    I'll post all the notes and details when I finish it (sometime soon I hope). I just wanted to get that off my chest in case it takes forever to get around to it.


    Appreciate the extra comments Kearly. I'm especially glad use discussed the DL and OT positions. I agree about Bennett and Hill. They did a really good job. As for Williams perhaps you were a little too critical. It was his first game going against 1st stringers and seemed to always have two players engaged with him. That may have been his job that day. But he does need more work which is what preseason and in many cases your rookie year is all about.

    I did notice you didn't mention Howard at all. He looked really good to me! Any comments on him?

    Last, I also really liked Bailey and just wonder if he could be a possibility at one of our guard positions as a future starter. It seems having him only being a backup LT may be a waste; especially if he could fix our problems at either guard spot now. What do you think?
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:15 pm
  • I think when it's all said and done, Schofield is going to give Irvin a run for his money at the pass-rushing SAM, and I really like Irvin. Schofield looked very natural and dangerous blitzing off the edge. It's quality depth at least and I love the pick up.

    This will sound blasphemous, but I'm not as high on Lotuleilei as it seems others are. I appreciate the high effort, but it seems that undersized LBs have struggled in Pete's system. I just don't see where he fits. If he's a demon on special teams and an improvement over Farwell as a LB, he could fit in as depth, but I wouldn't want to count on him at SAM or WILL against the monster lineman of the NFL.

    It's so early on the young DTs it's hard to make statements either way, but I've noticed that when the words technician and DT are thrown together it can sometimes be seen as a negative. Hill is never going to be a mauler, but when you look at him he is not out of place size or strength wise. He's a player that's going to maximize his abilities--quickness, feet, leverage. I will not be surprised if his ability to anchor will improve as he Seahawks career advances, especially with Quinn coaching him.

    I have no problems with Williams. It was his first preseason game and he was played early against starting NFL lineman. He just has to be healthy, and that's the only question mark for me. Pete knows successfully taking on double teams is a rare quality for NFL dlineman. It's one of the hardest things to do and Williams is the guy who might eventually be able to pull it off. He'll be given every opportunity.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:23 pm
  • I have to wonder why the college strength conditioning coaches pay so little attention to leg strength. I find it interesting that 300+ pound players like Jesse Williams has "bird legs". I've notice the same condition in many of the rookies coming into the league over the last dozen seasons or so. Seems to me if their legs are considerably smaller than their arms, they aren't training properly and just want to show off their "big guns" to the girls. I can understand that a skill player relying on speed as a part of his overall game may not want bulging muscles, but an offensive or defensive lineman should have both very strong legs and upper body to best do his job.

    As a former 15 year weight lifter (reps only, not power lifting) I was taught that weight lifting is exercise for the entire body, not just doing "curls" to get big guns and ignoring the lower body. There is also probably a connection between "leg injuries" and the lack of proper leg strength training. The lack of lower body weight training surely also contributes to many other negatives in actually playing the game. The legs are every players base and need to be as strong as possible, thus many rookies that come into the league may indeed need a year or better in the system to try and get their body's properly strong in more than just their upper bodies.

    Just my take on "bird legs" as a whole. I think there shouldn't be so many players coming into the league with pencil legs just because they devote way too much training time on just their upper bodies. I guess some of that is human nature, but where the heck are the college strength coaches?
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:24 pm
  • McGruff wrote:
    KCHawkGirl wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Our tackle situation is so good. I think we carry 4, and it makes Breno expendable. I know that pisses off the Breno guys, but I think the dude lacks as a pass blocker against power rushers. And is in a contract year.

    Micheal Bennett is awesome. Doesn't he have a shoulder labrum issue? OUr resident Niner lurkers have been know to say this makes it impossible to to get sacks. Derp.

    I like the Jordan Hill pick, and if he can be a laterally quick rusher it will like a cheap Henry Melton.

    Jesse Williams. He is a study in how big a leap it is to the pros. His strength does not matter now, his lack of technique does. Funny how the pick that the pundits loved the most may be the worse pick.

    Why would the DT situation have anything to do with Breno?


    Offensive tackle. Although I'm not sure who the four are that exclude Breno. Okung, Bowie, Bailey and ????


    Breno is the 4th. I expect him to play out his 2013 contract, I was talking about him becoming expendable next year.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:29 pm

Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:43 pm
  • grizbob wrote:I LOLed when I read subject title and saw who the author is :D :th2thumbs: Thanks for being part of .net kearly :179422:


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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:43 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:Kearly, I'm curious as to how you chart games. Are you charting situations, personnel and outcomes, or do you do more of a classic scoring chart?


    I take notes, basically if someone has a stand out play (good or bad), i jot down a quick but (reasonably) detailed description to help me remember later. On most plays, the alignment / personnel stays pretty consistent, but I do try to note when Hill was at the 1-tech or Howard was at the 5-tech, etc.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:45 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    warden wrote:Pete Carroll singled out Jesse Williams as having a good game. He did exactly what they asked him to do. He took on a lot of double teams to allow others to make plays. Williams will never have the wow plays but that is not how the coaches plan on using him.


    What! Are you trying to say Pete Carroll knows more about football than our resident, "experts"? Blasphemy! :les:


    Pete knows a hundred times more about football than any of us- but seriously- Jesse Williams was mostly terrible in the first half. I think it was Pete either not seeing it very well or just using positive psychology.

    Williams was consistently blown back 3-5 yards and was 90% of the reason why Seattle's run defense looked so weak in the first few series. I don't think I had him down for a single positive play either, though I did note that he can run shockingly fast when given some space.

    If this is how his whole preseason ends up, I think he makes our roster but lives on the inactive portion, similar to Jaye Howard last year.

    The good news is that Williams unexpected struggles in run defense can probably be corrected with time and coaching. There were some battles he lost badly because he didn't go to the ground against a double team, etc. I don't think he's used to the higher level of competition yet and he probably didn't respect the Chargers O-line as much as he should have.

    kf3339 wrote:I did notice you didn't mention Howard at all. He looked really good to me! Any comments on him?


    Go to my random thoughts thread and CTRL-F Howard. You'll like what I had to say.

    Right now we can make observations, but not judgements. I do agree with you though- it's early but Bailey just seems way too talented to be a backup. Bowie too. The preseason can be incredibly deceptive though. We have starters on our own roster who looked like world beaters in the preseason the last couple years but reverted to being merely solid contributors in real games (Breno, McQ, Wright, Johnson, etc). The real games are another step up the ladder, and we can only guess how well any player will adjust to the higher level of difficulty. But with that caveat established, I really, really like what I've seen from Bowie and Bailey so far.
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    kearly
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:20 pm
  • Fuzzman55 wrote:This will sound blasphemous, but I'm not as high on Lotuleilei as it seems others are. I appreciate the high effort, but it seems that undersized LBs have struggled in Pete's system. I just don't see where he fits. If he's a demon on special teams and an improvement over Farwell as a LB, he could fit in as depth, but I wouldn't want to count on him at SAM or WILL against the monster lineman of the NFL.


    Watching Lotulelei I am reminded of a non-headcase Aaron Curry. He's a missile, but his guidance system is faulty. He's worth keeping around because if he figures the position out he could be a good starter, but everyone slobbering his knob definitely needs to take a step back. Same thing with the the Luke Willson promoters. Both have above average potential, but both have a lot further to get there than I think most people realize.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:55 pm
  • The thing with Lotulelie is similar to why raw pass rushers can make a splash in preseason. It's easy to get the fan base excited about spectacular individual effort in preseason where all you worry about is making the team . . . It's a whole different thing to fit in to the team once you've made it. The first requires effort, athleticism and a certain reckless abandon. The second requires discipline, cooperation and study. The stuff you don't see on the field until a player is running the wrong direction while the play busts through the hole he was supposed to be covering.

    It's why Mayowa may just be another Reed or Law and Lotulelie may just be anther Tracy Porter.
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    McGruff
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:11 pm
  • Thanks for the additional info Kearly. Bennett did have a pretty under rated game that's for sure.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:16 pm
  • If Williams was asked to occupy guys on the line it's one thing, guys that have thick bittoms are usually asked for this task to free up space for penetraion players. Having not been in pads to master his technique against guys at playing speed I can see where he could look overwhelmed. Then again with the niks of injuries that were held out he may have been asked to perform a job that he wasn't slated for either.

    I'll give him a pass for a few games till he has a chance to adjust his game, it's not like he was drafted number four and was thought of as the safest pick in the draft and asked to perform.
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Re: A quick thought
Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:48 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:If Williams was asked to occupy guys on the line it's one thing, guys that have thick bittoms are usually asked for this task to free up space for penetraion players. Having not been in pads to master his technique against guys at playing speed I can see where he could look overwhelmed. Then again with the niks of injuries that were held out he may have been asked to perform a job that he wasn't slated for either.

    I'll give him a pass for a few games till he has a chance to adjust his game, it's not like he was drafted number four and was thought of as the safest pick in the draft and asked to perform.


    Your second paragraph is very funny, and actually very true!
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