The "Percy Harvin" effect. Hawk drop to #4 in several polls.

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  • hawk45 wrote:Harvin had a big value as insurance for Rice. Without Harvin, we're counting on Rice to go injury free 2 years in a row. To me, that downgrades our chances of the WRs playing at the level they played at last year.

    Not saying it's a killer for a team with this D and this run game, but I can see dropping a couple of spots for that reason.


    Well if your going to base predictions or rankings off expected injuries or how teams compensate for said injuries, shouldn't you do the same for other teams? Those rankings assume that Justin Smith and Gore will not only be 100% healthy but 100% as productive as previous years. They are looking at guys like Lockette to step up and somehow that doesn't seem to be a problem? Reports on Jenkins are putrid again this year and now Culliver is out for the year when they were already wiling to sign DB's with PED suspensions and multiple DUI's including one that will like have a four game suspension this year if he even lands on a team.

    I know what your saying but the argument doesn't hold water. It is way more reasonable to expect the Niners to struggle do to existing injuries, aging key players and losses of key players than to think Rice could go down and we will have no answer. Remember, Rice put on 20 pounds of muscle before last year that was designed to help him with the injury bug. I don't think he lost all that weight did he?
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  • mretrade wrote:Williams is going to be ready week 1. Manningham probably by week 3 if not by week 1. Delanie Walker is the back up tight end. lol.


    Really?

    Wide receivers Mario Manningham and Kyle Williams were joined by linebacker Darius Fleming and running back Kendall Hunter on the list. Running back Marcus Lattimore, defensive tackles Tank Carradine and Quinton Dial and offensive tackle Luke Marquardt were placed on the non-football injury list.

    You sound more optimistic than most but I suspect there might be a bit of homer in your prediction. Either way, even if you were correct do you expect them to come back full strength? What am I saying, of course you do.

    Oh and your back up TE was your QB's #2 target, your H-back and played a huge role in your running game and protecting your QB. If Crabtree were healthy that might not be as big a deal but you guys are down your #1, #2, #4 and #5 pass catchers. How do you think that won't negatively impact your offense? I know you think you have the greatest QB and greatest coach to ever be affiliated with the game. God it's going to be fun watching you Niner fans melt as reality swipes through your season.
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  • formido wrote:Haven't dropped in Vegas:

    http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/



    Excellent point...though also a popularity poll. I pointed out in another thread that if you look deeper into that Vegas line...it is clear their projection is Seattle vs. Denver, with Denver a slight favorite, in the SB.

    Harvin was the joker and I looked forward to seeing some obscure formations and plays utilizing his special talents. But we are first and foremost a smash mouth football team and if Michael is as advertised (Lynch jr), defenses will be wishing Harvin was healthy. This year we let RW loose and I think that will translate to a lot of 2nd and shorts / 3rd and shorts. That will translate to worn out D-linemen watching time expire from the clock.

    This is the team I always wanted and I think we are about to see football not seen since Al Gore invented the forward pass.
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  • Throwdown wrote:Oh lawd Jesus we're doomed, just give us Jadaveon Clowney now!!!


    DOOMED!
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  • Werent we #1 BEFORE we signed Percy????
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    mretrade wrote:Williams is going to be ready week 1. Manningham probably by week 3 if not by week 1. Delanie Walker is the back up tight end. lol.


    Really?

    Wide receivers Mario Manningham and Kyle Williams were joined by linebacker Darius Fleming and running back Kendall Hunter on the list. Running back Marcus Lattimore, defensive tackles Tank Carradine and Quinton Dial and offensive tackle Luke Marquardt were placed on the non-football injury list.

    You sound more optimistic than most but I suspect there might be a bit of homer in your prediction. Either way, even if you were correct do you expect them to come back full strength? What am I saying, of course you do.

    Oh and your back up TE was your QB's #2 target, your H-back and played a huge role in your running game and protecting your QB. If Crabtree were healthy that might not be as big a deal but you guys are down your #1, #2, #4 and #5 pass catchers. How do you think that won't negatively impact your offense? I know you think you have the greatest QB and greatest coach to ever be affiliated with the game. God it's going to be fun watching you Niner fans melt as reality swipes through your season.


    Hey buddy, if your going to knock a team get your facts straight and stop spreading misinformation.

    Kyle Williams has since been activated from PUP and has been practicing in full pads with no limitations.

    Delanie Walker was somewhat important but wasn't too great last year. I see Vance McDonald doing fine replacing him. He was not number 2 in targets last year. He had 38 targets. Vernon Davis had 61. Crabtree had 128. Randy Moss had 51. Manningham had 57.

    Our receivers are going to be better this year than they were in 2011 prior to Crabtree emerging as a top threat. Anquan Boldin had more receiving yards last year than any NFC West receiver not named Michael Crabtree. As long as we can stretch the field and utilize Vernon, Williams, and Jenkins, I think we will be fine. Manningham will play most of the year anyway so I really don't consider him a loss.
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  • two words.... so what. :thirishdrinkers:
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  • As a long time fan, I can't bring myself to knock anything Boldin. But he is the epitome of possession receiver and (now) makes his living strictly out-positioning and out-muscling DBs. He was a great complement to Kaep and will have continued success against a percentage of teams. The Hawks won't be in that percentile. We have multiple counters to his style of play.

    If Boldin is a possession receiver, Manningham is a pedestrian receiver. He won't scare anyone and I will be surprised if he is on your roster this time next year. The same can likely be said for Boldin.

    The two guys above will move the chains but more times cause frustration (by lack of separation) for Kaep. This will cause him to take chances he probably shouldn't take. What happens when young QBs try to force the game?

    Unless Harbaugh is as dumb as a box of rocks, anticipate LeMichael James becoming a HUGE part of your offense this year. But he's small. Won't last. Go Hawks.
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  • He is a possession receiver and still very productive. He had more yards last year than any Seahawks receiver. I will gladly take him. I don't see you guys knocking Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, or Doug Baldwin. All who are put up far inferior numbers last year.

    "He was a great complement to Kaep and will have continued success against a percentage of teams."

    Uhh he has never played with Kaepernick before.

    Manningham is a nice complementary receiver. He is much faster than Boldin (you called him pedestrian comparatively) but speed isn't his game. He runs good routes and is more of a finesse guy.

    Not saying these guys will set the world on fire but our current crop of receivers are better than what we had in 2011 when we won the division over yours truly.

    Crabtree is expected back late in the year but I am not banking on it. Crabtree/Boldin would be deadly.
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  • mretrade wrote:Williams is going to be ready week 1. Manningham probably by week 3 if not by week 1. Delanie Walker is the back up tight end. lol.


    who cares?
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  • Harvin is a stud, but not THAT big of an impact, my god...
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  • Thinking objectively; is it impossible to believe that outside of any bias some people out there might actually think there are better teams in the league than the Seahawks?
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  • 60niners wrote:Thinking objectively; is it impossible to believe that outside of any bias some people out there might actually think there are better teams in the league than the Seahawks?


    Not all of us are coming at this wearing rose colored glasses so please, don't lump everybody in there... I actually said in another post that it would take 13 wins for the Hawks to win the division. Looking at schedules, situations, etc., I can easily see the 49ers winning 12 or 13 games and so, I am definitely tempering my enthusiasm/expectations. Plus, I do follow what's going on in the bay just because I take great interest in our division. Seems to me that while many outside of the Niners fan base believe that Crabtree's injury will cause a huge setback, I for one don't see it. It's not a popular opinion around here though, so... I digress. While I would like to believe that the Seahawks are next up to take this division, I am not so delusional that I actually would put money on it, if that makes any sense...
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  • themunn wrote:
    mretrade wrote:Williams is going to be ready week 1. Manningham probably by week 3 if not by week 1. Delanie Walker is the back up tight end. lol.


    who cares?


    The guy who initiated the 49ers discussion here, duh.
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  • mretrade wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    mretrade wrote:Williams is going to be ready week 1. Manningham probably by week 3 if not by week 1. Delanie Walker is the back up tight end. lol.


    who cares?


    The guy who initiated the 49ers discussion here, duh.


    He didn't initiate a discussion, he made a point that Seattle are being penalised for losing one measly player to injury while it appears to have been overlooked on San Francisco's side.

    YOU initiated a "discussion". Nobody else here cares when your players get back from injury or how good your new drafted backup tight end is going to be or how well your crappy wide receivers are practicing. You want to peddle that nonsense then go back to your own board.
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  • Who cares? How many preseason power ranking/odds favorites have won it all in the last decade? Pats in 04 maybe.
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  • Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.
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  • 13thMan wrote:Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.


    You've been here a week so I'll give you a pass.
    This place has been a joke over the offseason, you can't have a single Seahawk discussion without a Niner fan coming in and adding their 2 cents regarding their team.

    I don't give a shit about the Niners, we play them twice a year. This isn't a Niner forum and they can't seem to get their thick heads around that

    This thread was started discussion the laughable assertion that Percy Harvin was so important to our team and we're "lost" without him (obviously 4th is hardly lost, but you get my point). What does that have to do with San Francisco? Like I said, if Niner fans want to discuss when their crappy players get back from injury and how beastly they're going to be, fine. Just don't do it on a Seahawks board
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  • Point taken... I wasn't aware that this forum was being overtaken. Personally, though, I do have a "care" about, not only the Niners, but the Rams and the Cardinals also... all three of those teams have a fair impact (potentially) on what THIS team achieves. Truth be told, I watch all of the division games every weekend, though I only cheer for one team. Hope this makes sense, but anyway, not trying to ruffle any feathers.
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  • themunn wrote:
    13thMan wrote:Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.


    You've been here a week so I'll give you a pass.
    This place has been a joke over the offseason, you can't have a single Seahawk discussion without a Niner fan coming in and adding their 2 cents regarding their team.

    I don't give a shit about the Niners, we play them twice a year. This isn't a Niner forum and they can't seem to get their thick heads around that

    This thread was started discussion the laughable assertion that Percy Harvin was so important to our team and we're "lost" without him (obviously 4th is hardly lost, but you get my point). What does that have to do with San Francisco? Like I said, if Niner fans want to discuss when their crappy players get back from injury and how beastly they're going to be, fine. Just don't do it on a Seahawks board


    Don't blame 49ers fans for this. RichNhansom (a Seahawks fan) was the 1st poster to dedicate a post about the 49ers and incidentally it was filled with misinformation. A 49ers fan corrected him and now it's all us 49ers fans fault for derailing a thread topic?? Please. You guys are just as responsible. Don't blame 49ers fans presence. Maybe you guys should strive not to mention the 49ers in every goddamn thread.
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  • SoHo9erFan wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    13thMan wrote:Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.


    You've been here a week so I'll give you a pass.
    This place has been a joke over the offseason, you can't have a single Seahawk discussion without a Niner fan coming in and adding their 2 cents regarding their team.

    I don't give a shit about the Niners, we play them twice a year. This isn't a Niner forum and they can't seem to get their thick heads around that

    This thread was started discussion the laughable assertion that Percy Harvin was so important to our team and we're "lost" without him (obviously 4th is hardly lost, but you get my point). What does that have to do with San Francisco? Like I said, if Niner fans want to discuss when their crappy players get back from injury and how beastly they're going to be, fine. Just don't do it on a Seahawks board


    Don't blame 49ers fans for this. RichNhansom (a Seahawks fan) was the 1st poster to dedicate a post about the 49ers and incidentally it was filled with misinformation. A 49ers fan corrected him and now it's all us 49ers fans fault for derailing a thread topic?? Please. You guys are just as responsible. Don't blame 49ers fans presence. Maybe you guys should strive not to mention the 49ers in every goddamn thread.


    Um actually I was the first Seahawk fan to dedicate a post solely to 49ers fans.

    viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65263
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  • SoHo9erFan wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    13thMan wrote:Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.


    You've been here a week so I'll give you a pass.
    This place has been a joke over the offseason, you can't have a single Seahawk discussion without a Niner fan coming in and adding their 2 cents regarding their team.

    I don't give a shit about the Niners, we play them twice a year. This isn't a Niner forum and they can't seem to get their thick heads around that

    This thread was started discussion the laughable assertion that Percy Harvin was so important to our team and we're "lost" without him (obviously 4th is hardly lost, but you get my point). What does that have to do with San Francisco? Like I said, if Niner fans want to discuss when their crappy players get back from injury and how beastly they're going to be, fine. Just don't do it on a Seahawks board


    Don't blame 49ers fans for this. RichNhansom (a Seahawks fan) was the 1st poster to dedicate a post about the 49ers and incidentally it was filled with misinformation. A 49ers fan corrected him and now it's all us 49ers fans fault for derailing a thread topic?? Please. You guys are just as responsible. Don't blame 49ers fans presence. Maybe you guys should strive not to mention the 49ers in every goddamn thread.


    WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DOING HERE
    Once again, his post was simply pointing out the ridiculousness of the fact that Seattle is being "punished" for losing Harvin, but those very same things that are being used as negatives (and being pointed out as negatives) by one particular media outlet are apparently not enough to bring the 49ers down.

    If it was Denver who'd lost their wide receivers we'd be talking about Denver right now, but at least we'd be able to have that conversation without some Broncos fans coming in and trying to correct everything we say. We're not a Broncos board, we're not a Cardinals board, we're not a Panthers board or a Bears board and we are most definitely NOT a Niners board.
    Last edited by themunn on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Its so nice to just have 49er fans (who have the right) back on here to talk their mess.
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  • SoHo9erFan wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    13thMan wrote:Munn, don't get your panties in a bunch... The sole purpose of starting a thread is to DISCUSS. Sheeeesh, chill out dude. I swear the level of sensitivity on the part of some posters is just off the charts. Relax.


    You've been here a week so I'll give you a pass.
    This place has been a joke over the offseason, you can't have a single Seahawk discussion without a Niner fan coming in and adding their 2 cents regarding their team.

    I don't give a shit about the Niners, we play them twice a year. This isn't a Niner forum and they can't seem to get their thick heads around that

    This thread was started discussion the laughable assertion that Percy Harvin was so important to our team and we're "lost" without him (obviously 4th is hardly lost, but you get my point). What does that have to do with San Francisco? Like I said, if Niner fans want to discuss when their crappy players get back from injury and how beastly they're going to be, fine. Just don't do it on a Seahawks board


    Don't blame 49ers fans for this. RichNhansom (a Seahawks fan) was the 1st poster to dedicate a post about the 49ers and incidentally it was filled with misinformation. A 49ers fan corrected him and now it's all us 49ers fans fault for derailing a thread topic?? Please. You guys are just as responsible. Don't blame 49ers fans presence. Maybe you guys should strive not to mention the 49ers in every goddamn thread.


    If you weren't here it wouldn't be going on. Pretty simple really.
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  • ^^^ That is simply false. We aren't starting the Kaepernick/Harbaugh/49er obsession fest.

    Like I said before, Seahawks can beat us twice a year 100 to 0, I wouldn't care if the 49ers won the division. Head to head means very little in the NFL.
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  • mretrade wrote:^^^ That is simply false. We aren't starting the Kaepernick/Harbaugh/49er obsession fest.

    Like I said before, Seahawks can beat us twice a year 100 to 0, I wouldn't care if the 49ers won the division. Head to head means very little in the NFL.


    blah blah blah blah, we don't have an obsession, they're a divisional rival (and our closest competitor to the division title), of course they're going to be mentioned in passing.

    however, that doesn't mean we need you to come in and "correct" everything we say, because guess what... we don't give a rats arse about your opinion of your team
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  • Its not opinion, its not subjective, he stated things that were not true.

    Delanie Walker was not 2nd in targets last year
    Kyle Williams is not out injured
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  • Kinda funny how many of us here complain about going to the Niners boards and being shouted down, harassed and run out of their forums and then come back here saying what a-holes they are... hmmmm.... These Niner fans aren't that bad, and I think it adds a little spice to have 'em here. If they do get that bad, they get banned. Just sayin'.
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  • Personnally, I am wondering how Harvin will fare with less opportunities. (once he is healthy of course) I
    presume that our talent is far deeper than the Vikings.

    It will be nice to have him on board.
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  • Lords of Scythia wrote:
    formido wrote:Haven't dropped in Vegas:

    http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

    Those odds are set by bookmakers to hedge the betting, not a prediction who will win the SB. Does anyone really think glass-neck, freaked-out-by-outside-stadiums Payton Manning will suck it up all the way through the Superbowl?


    Do I think he'd do it 2 times in 11 identical seasons? I think that's a reasonable estimate, yes.
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  • formido wrote:
    Lords of Scythia wrote:
    formido wrote:Haven't dropped in Vegas:

    http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

    Those odds are set by bookmakers to hedge the betting, not a prediction who will win the SB. Does anyone really think glass-neck, freaked-out-by-outside-stadiums Payton Manning will suck it up all the way through the Superbowl?


    Do I think he'd do it 2 times in 11 identical seasons? I think that's a reasonable estimate, yes.



    Sorry, formido, but Our odds actually HAVE DROPPED im Vegas. I was there (The Hilton/LVH) on Tuesday. We are now 10-1 for Super Bowl and 5-1 for Conference. We had this discussion in another thread as I was on a plane to Vegas a couple days ago and I looked into it. Another noard member did the same. For some reason, that vegasinsider is not accurate.
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  • mretrade wrote:He is a possession receiver and still very productive. He had more yards last year than any Seahawks receiver. I will gladly take him. I don't see you guys knocking Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, or Doug Baldwin. All who are put up far inferior numbers last year.

    "He was a great complement to Kaep and will have continued success against a percentage of teams."

    Uhh he has never played with Kaepernick before.

    .


    Thanks for the clarity. I think most of us thought Kaep was Boldin's QB at FSU, then again at Arizona. You're like a frikin' NFL encyclopedia!
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