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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:17 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
Affect. You are welcome.


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Oh boy... You really want to go down this route?

Our crowd has an affect on the game, the effect is we win more games.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:45 am 
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HawksFTW wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
Affect. You are welcome.


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Oh boy... You really want to go down this route?

Our crowd has an affect on the game, the effect is we win more games.


Also wrong.

Our crowd affects the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:53 am 
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Basis4day wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
Oh boy... You really want to go down this route?

Our crowd has an affect on the game, the effect is we win more games.


Also wrong.

Our crowd affects the game.


:roll:

amazingly, the word can be used as a verb and a noun.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:00 am 
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HawksFTW wrote:
Basis4day wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
Oh boy... You really want to go down this route?

Our crowd has an affect on the game, the effect is we win more games.


Also wrong.

Our crowd affects the game.


:roll:

amazingly, the word can be used as a verb and a noun.


Indeed it can, but not in this case. "Affect" as a noun refers to a feeling or emotion. That makes no sense in the context of your example.

You're using "affect" as a noun to convey influence. That is incorrect. Influence as a noun is "effect". Influence as a verb is "affect".

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:23 am 
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Yes, HawksFTW, I do want to go down this road. The thread title, while lacking "the" a couple of times to make it proper, is using "effect" correctly. "Measuring the effect of the 12th man" would be proper. "Measuring the affect of the 12th man" would not be. You are WRONG. You can say "The 12th man affects games", for instance, but you absolutely with 100% certainty CANNOT "measure the affect" or "measure affect" of anything.

The thread title is referencing the effect of the 12th man.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:42 am 
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Wasn't referencing the title, iRo. Try harder.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 am 
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Wait, why is everyone jumping all over J? I thought it was PE who said that the Steelers fans are louder and provide a better atmosphere in (arm)PITT than we do at home...

:hmmmm:

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:56 am 
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Trenchbroom wrote:
Wait, why is everyone jumping all over J? I thought it was PE who said that the Steelers fans are louder and provide a better atmosphere in (arm)PITT than we do at home...

:hmmmm:


Of which he was INCORRECT!

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:09 am 
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Maybe we just suck on the road making it look like the crowd helps at home......

Maybe adderall isn't compatible with flying and getting up at 10am...........

just saying :D


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:13 am 
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Basis4day wrote:
Indeed it can, but not in this case. "Affect" as a noun refers to a feeling or emotion. That makes no sense in the context of your example.

You're using "affect" as a noun to convey influence. That is incorrect. Influence as a noun is "effect". Influence as a verb is "affect".


I have affection for people that knows how to use the word correctly and I appreciate the effective way which you communicated the difference


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:17 am 
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Then it's your failure for not indicating what you were referring to, HawksFTW. It certainly wasn't the post preceding your original statement.

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*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:38 am 
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You guys argue over the dumbest shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:46 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
You guys argue over the dumbest shit.


Its .net


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:51 am 
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mikeak wrote:
Basis4day wrote:
Indeed it can, but not in this case. "Affect" as a noun refers to a feeling or emotion. That makes no sense in the context of your example.

You're using "affect" as a noun to convey influence. That is incorrect. Influence as a noun is "effect". Influence as a verb is "affect".


I have affection for people that knows how to use the word correctly and I appreciate the effective way which you communicated the difference


I'm happy to accept your praise and am glad i was able to explain the exceptions. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Back to the original question.

I agree that visiting teams have typically gone to a silent count to combat the 12th man.

As a result we see the following

More delay of game calls
More timeouts used in dumb situations, just to avoid delay of game calls
Fewer audibles at the line of scrimmage (often they give up on this entirely)
More sacks because the O line doesn't have the typical first mover advantage and also because schemes aren't adjusted with audibles

I believe all of these are true. I think you could easily get stats for these four. I'm sure we get a ton more sacks at home than on the road... and it's probably more dramatic than what most teams see as a differential. I bet we have the fewest audibles per game for visitors of any stadium. I bet that visitors typically use all their timeouts during a game, and often NOT during the last four minutes of each half, as opposed to what is typical. Delay of game is a rare call and I see multiple of them most home games and always on the visiting team...


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:35 pm 
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I understand J's point - that the players and coaches are the most important factor to winning games. I think that's pretty obvious.

But you can't say the 12th Man doesn't have a big impact on how the Seahawks play. Anyone who was there in 2005 can attest to the HUGE impact the 12th Man can have. I was there for those games in '05. It's hard to explain to anyone who wasn't there, but there was a palpable real "vibe" that was very special, and which definitely impacted the team. Holmgren and Hasselbeck have both stated repeatedly, even after leaving Seattle, that the 12th Man was a big part of that season, that the fans pushed the team and helped them win some very close games.

Specifically the Cowboy and Giants games. I was at both. Both were very close, and both had the 12th Man in a frenzy. In both games, the crowd intensity was insane, some of the highest-energy games I've ever been to. Specifically the Giants game, in OT, the Seahawks were visibly impacted by the 12th Man. Many players have commented on it, so it's not just fans making things up to feel better about themselves. I think it's overly cynical and kind of sad to try to take that away from us.

Maybe you didn't get to enjoy that Giants game. Maybe you didn't get to enjoy the 2005 season. If so, I'm sorry for you because it was truly something special that would be hard to put into words. But don't try to steal that from those of us who were there, who got to experience that magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Might as well post this here. #9? Give me a break.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:33 pm 
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HansGruber wrote:


Maybe you didn't get to enjoy that Giants game. Maybe you didn't get to enjoy the 2005 season. If so, I'm sorry for you because it was truly something special that would be hard to put into words. But don't try to steal that from those of us who were there, who got to experience that magic.


I was there for every game starting in 1993 and ending at the Beast Quake game (havnt had season tickets since then) including all those games you mentioned in 05. I'm not trying to steal anything away from you. You're free to have and keep whatever opinion you want. I'm not trying to change your mind, i'm just voicing my opinion. I wasn't even going to post in this thread until techworlds called me out.

12th man is great. They bring tons of energy to the team. I've never once said otherwise. My only point I've ever tried to make is that A. we're not as important as the team and B. we're not the only fan base that helps their team. I'm not even sure why people have a problem with my opinion as they both seem pretty obvious to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:17 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
HansGruber wrote:


Maybe you didn't get to enjoy that Giants game. Maybe you didn't get to enjoy the 2005 season. If so, I'm sorry for you because it was truly something special that would be hard to put into words. But don't try to steal that from those of us who were there, who got to experience that magic.


I was there for every game starting in 1993 and ending at the Beast Quake game (havnt had season tickets since then) including all those games you mentioned in 05. I'm not trying to steal anything away from you. You're free to have and keep whatever opinion you want. I'm not trying to change your mind, i'm just voicing my opinion. I wasn't even going to post in this thread until techworlds called me out.

12th man is great. They bring tons of energy to the team. I've never once said otherwise. My only point I've ever tried to make is that A. we're not as important as the team and B. we're not the only fan base that helps their team. I'm not even sure why people have a problem with my opinion as they both seem pretty obvious to me.


Yeah, wasn't trying to question your attendance or fanhood or anything. Apologies if it came across like that. I see your points and they're valid, and pretty obvious. Although, I've been to many many different stadiums and I think we truly do have something special in Seattle.

My two favorite stadiums so far have been Kansas City and Washington. They lived up to the billing. Lots of fun people at the Washington game, had a really good time, they have an amazing tradition there and I saw a couple families where you'd see 4 generations of fans attending the game together (great-grandpa, grandpa, dad and son). I enjoyed their battle song and they have some interesting and unique traditions. Kansas City was really loud and a lot of fun as well, and some great BBQ outside the stadium. Gillette was pretty cool too, the Patriots fans were all far different than I expected - for the most part, they were hospitable and good sports (although we got our butts kicked so I'm sure that's part of it). Minnesota was also pretty cool but their stadium sucks and the fans were really angry and in a bad mood, with lots of them yelling insults at Childress.

However, most of the other places I've been haven't even compared to the Clink. Not even close. The Giants stadium was bizarrely quiet, like a golf game. One of the fans explained the season tickets were insanely expensive so it's generally just the wealthy country club types that can attend (and that's pretty much what I saw). Philly was way more mellow than I expected. San Francisco last year, they were all watching the Giants baseball game on their phones and not even paying attention to the football game. Not nearly as rowdy as I expected.

With few exceptions, I think Seattle has a very different environment than anywhere else. Sure other fans yell and get loud at times. But nowhere have I seen the same intensity, the same belief that you can actually impact the game, the same knowledge of the game, etc. Most crowds don't all get up at once without being prompted and go absolutely nuts on 3rd Down. None of them had a flag raising for the fans. None of them had that same belief in the fans, or the same amount of interaction between team and fans. I think the 12th Man is really special to Seattle, and I love that I get to part of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:20 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Then it's your failure for not indicating what you were referring to, HawksFTW. It certainly wasn't the post preceding your original statement.


Stop trolling dude.

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 Post subject: Re: Measuring effect of 12th Man
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:58 am 
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Basis4day wrote:


Might as well post this here. #9? Give me a break.


LOL at the 8 second mark, dude in a rice jersey.

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