Measuring effect of 12th Man

Hawken-Dazs · Jun 18, 2013

It seems like visiting teams have been adapting to our loud noise with their snap counts, so the number of false starts (since 2005) have been on a decline. It almost isn't worth keeping track of anymore.

Is there anything else we could tally? I think there was a significant amount of "delay of game's" in the past year.

Tical21 · Jun 18, 2013

Tally W's baby.

RolandDeschain · Jun 18, 2013

Football Outsiders proved we're the only team in the league with a real home field advantage.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-r ... oa-ratings

Football Outsiders":nxwqylrf said:
What makes Seattle's big home-field advantage special is that it actually seems to exist.

Read the article. Great ammo for us Seahawks fans.

Tech Worlds · Jun 18, 2013

The 12th man has no effect on games. It's cute and just makes Seattle fans feel special.

Just ask JSeahawks.

JSeahawks · Jun 18, 2013

Tech Worlds":23l0kfdp said:
The 12th man has no effect on games. It's cute and just makes Seattle fans feel special.

Just ask JSeahawks.

I never said we have no effect. I just don't think its as great as some of us think. And I don't think we're the only fan base that's great for their team. There are plenty of fan bases just as fanatical and into the games as us.

FlyingGreg · Jun 18, 2013

8-0 at home last season. That's the only stat that matters.

v1rotv2 · Jun 18, 2013

JSeahawks":38vxh4ya said:
Tech Worlds":38vxh4ya said:

The 12th man has no effect on games. It's cute and just makes Seattle fans feel special.

Just ask JSeahawks.

Click to expand...

I never said we have no effect. I just don't think its as great as some of us think. And I don't think we're the only fan base that's great for their team. There are plenty of fan bases just as fanatical and into the games as us.

Ah, Grasshopper fanatical yes effective no. The evidence would be the 49'er game in Dec.

Sir, I rest my case.

JSeahawks · Jun 18, 2013

v1rotv2":2fgng1fj said:
JSeahawks":2fgng1fj said:

Tech Worlds":2fgng1fj said:

The 12th man has no effect on games. It's cute and just makes Seattle fans feel special.

Just ask JSeahawks.

Click to expand...

I never said we have no effect. I just don't think its as great as some of us think. And I don't think we're the only fan base that's great for their team. There are plenty of fan bases just as fanatical and into the games as us.

Click to expand...

Ah, Grasshopper fanatical yes effective no. The evidence would be the 49'er game in Dec.

Sir, I rest my case.

What about the 49ers game in September? Did we lose because of their crowd? Or did we lose because the 49ers were the better team that night.

On that night in December the Seahawks would have kicked the 49ers ass in an empty stadium.

Tech Worlds · Jun 18, 2013

See! He's a 12th man hater!

You sir are exposed!

RolandDeschain · Jun 18, 2013

J, stop posting in this thread until you've read the Football Outsiders article entirely and have come to the realization that we are, in fact, a step above at CenturyLink in support of our Seahawks. I know it's probably a bitter pill to swallow because you want to think you're just as good at Oregon games and such, but the evidence just isn't there.

JSeahawks · Jun 18, 2013

RolandDeschain":t3vr7gx7 said:
J, stop posting in this thread until you've read the Football Outsiders article entirely and have come to the realization that we are, in fact, a step above at CenturyLink in support of our Seahawks. I know it's probably a bitter pill to swallow because you want to think you're just as good at Oregon games and such, but the evidence just isn't there.

I've only been to one Ducks game and they got their asses kicked by Boise State.

I skimmed the article, didn't read every word but from what I saw That article says absolutely nothing about the 12th man and their impact. Its just difference between home and away. Maybe we're such a great home team because teams have to travel so far to play us. (kind of how we always bitch about how we have to travel so far and play 10 am games to play other teams).

12th man is great. They're loud as hell and I appreciate them. But their importance is tiny in comparison to the players and coaches. The impact certainly didn't seem to be as big when Tarvaris Jackson or Charlie Whitehurst or Sten Gelbaugh or Dan McGwire was our QB.

Some people act like the 12th man is more important then the players on the field and that's what bugs me and what I argue against. We have a great crowd. No doubt about it.

RolandDeschain · Jun 18, 2013

Again, go actually READ the article. Over several years, virtually every team in the NFL ends up averaging 8.5% of an advantage at home, and losing 8.5% away. West coast teams are slightly higher, but Seattle's a big anomaly with a much higher calculated-by-math home field advantage.

There's only one possible reason. We're the same distance to the vast majority of east coast teams in the NFL as S.F. is, so there can only be one thing remaining that can account for it.

kearly · Jun 18, 2013

J, you are crazy if you don't think stadium environment doesn't impact a game. You watch that SF game, Kaepernick was definitely effected by the stadium environment. He couldn't hear, he was visibly frustrated trying to audible, and it wasn't until the intensity of the crowd waned a bit in the final minutes before he finally completed a TD drive. The Seahawks still slaughter the 49ers, but I'd go so far as to say the noise probably made a 10-14 point difference in that game specifically.

On a side note to another comment in here: the article (the one from FO) says that homefield advantage does exist for every team. The quote:

What makes Seattle's big home-field advantage special is that it actually seems to exist. Well, that's not quite right -- home-field advantage pretty much exists for every team.

I think what got people mixed up is that the article basically says that every NFL team enjoys the same degree of home field advantage except the Seahawks, who enjoy a significantly bigger boost at home than every other NFL team.

RolandDeschain · Jun 18, 2013

Kearly, I think J must be claiming that there's something in the air here that hurts visiting teams. Yeah, that must be it! Couldn't possibly be the crowd that is louder than anyone else.

AndyOswald10 · Jun 18, 2013

I don't think there's anyone on here that actually thinks the 12th Man is more important than the players on the field. Debate all you want if we do or do not have have an effect on visiting teams. But its undeniable that we have an effect on OUR players at home. Nearly every player has said so at one time or another,they feed off of the energy at home. With the talent we have on this team playing up to their potential for whatever reason, it translates to wins, and that all that really matters.

RolandDeschain · Jun 18, 2013

Anybody that thinks the 12th man is more important than the players on the field is a moron. All we're saying is the crowd in Seattle gives an extra bump that no other NFL crowd gives. Even Larry Fitzgerald envies the Seahawks fans.

HawkAroundTheClock · Jun 19, 2013

I feel like 12's have been making as much noise (literally and figuratively) as possible all these years, just waiting for the intensity of the team to match it. We now have that team. I hope I'm not out of line with that, because I know we've had intense players and position groups at various times. But the overall team vibe at this point seems to match the 12's vibe better than ever and it makes sense that they feed off our energy on game day. How could they not, right?! We fans just let loose the insanity and they channel and focus it into smart, tough, dominating football. Woohoo!
:0190l: :0190l: :0190l:

HawksFTW · Jun 19, 2013

Affect. You are welcome.

Basis4day · Jun 19, 2013

JSeahawks":8ttdz862 said:
RolandDeschain":8ttdz862 said:

J, stop posting in this thread until you've read the Football Outsiders article entirely and have come to the realization that we are, in fact, a step above at CenturyLink in support of our Seahawks. I know it's probably a bitter pill to swallow because you want to think you're just as good at Oregon games and such, but the evidence just isn't there.

Click to expand...

I've only been to one Ducks game and they got their asses kicked by Boise State.

I skimmed the article, didn't read every word but from what I saw That article says absolutely nothing about the 12th man and their impact. Its just difference between home and away. Maybe we're such a great home team because teams have to travel so far to play us. (kind of how we always bitch about how we have to travel so far and play 10 am games to play other teams).

12th man is great. They're loud as hell and I appreciate them. But their importance is tiny in comparison to the players and coaches. The impact certainly didn't seem to be as big when Tarvaris Jackson or Charlie Whitehurst or Sten Gelbaugh or Dan McGwire was our QB.

Some people act like the 12th man is more important then the players on the field and that's what bugs me and what I argue against. We have a great crowd. No doubt about it.

If you want to argue the effect of the 12th man when compared to an opposing team's player's skill or coaching you have a solid argument.
But to dismiss the 12th man as simply motivated fans is flat out incorrect. Our stadium is louder than other stadiums period. The specific design of the building focuses the sound onto the field. It does make it difficult on opponents and it does have an impact.

If it didn't, why would other teams bother complaining about the noise or accusing us of piping in sound? It's simple. The noise gave us what they consider an unfair advantage.

RolandDeschain · Jun 19, 2013

HawksFTW":an3s2ise said:
Affect. You are welcome.

Measuring effect of 12th Man

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