Tjack or Quinn (Update: TJack flying in for visit)

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  • kidhawk wrote:
    Chukarhawk wrote:the list is not in any particualr order, just back ups I could think of


    And not a one of them is on our team, so that means you think Jackson is the best back up we have right? (well have after the official signing)


    yes, I do. This was a respnse to people saying he's a top 5 back up. He's not.
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  • Chukarhawk wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Chukarhawk wrote:the list is not in any particualr order, just back ups I could think of


    And not a one of them is on our team, so that means you think Jackson is the best back up we have right? (well have after the official signing)


    yes, I do. This was a respnse to people saying he's a top 5 back up. He's not.


    That's all really just subjective there, fans will usually do one of two things, completely overrate or completely underrate players on their own team. We really don't know what kind of backup he'll be, and hopefully we'll never find out, because I don't want Wilson to miss any time unless we're up by 3-4 touchdowns in the 4th quarter.
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  • some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.
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  • Chukarhawk wrote:some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.


    That's wonderful for Cousins, but he ain't an option here. You're taking this conversation to a whole other unnecasarry place.
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  • Chukarhawk wrote:some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.


    Obviously you are going to find a lot of guys through the draft with a ton of potential, but we don't currently have that option, the market is what it is. If you want to push for them to draft a qb next year, that's fine, but that won't help us this year. Personally, I don't think we need to waste the draft capital on a backup qb when we can find serviceable guys out there like Jackson to get us by. When you get a guy like Wilson, you put the franchise on his back and let him carry you through as long as you can. To do that, you will need to fill the team with talented youngsters, because as guys age they start to cost more. Getting inexpensive qb's to play backup from the heap of unwanted is the easiest way to continue to keep the roster churning with fresh young and inexpensive talent while being able to pay your core group of players to keep them.
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  • True, a young guy like Russell, you're likely looking at a career backup.
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  • Throwdown wrote:
    Chukarhawk wrote:some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.


    That's wonderful for Cousins, but he ain't an option here. You're taking this conversation to a whole other unnecasarry place.


    you must have missed the part where i said this was in reponse to the idae that Jackson is a top 5 back up. Im not advocating getting anyone on that list. Jackson is probably the best guy available right now.
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  • It's almost official....Carroll says that Jackson and Quinn will comPETE for the backup qb job.

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2013/06/13/carroll-tarvaris-jackson-and-brady-quinn-will-compete-for-backup-qb-job/

    “So we bring him back with the thought that he’ll make this a real competitive situation. … Russell’s our quarterback. There’s no question about that. But if Tarvaris comes back in, he understands the system. We’re very familiar with him. He’s comfortable in these setting and surroundings, and we’ll expect him to battle.”
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  • Chukarhawk wrote:some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.


    How much does Cousins benefit from the "backup we've never seen play before" factor that made John Skelton (and strangely, Kevin Kolb when he returned from injury) look like a serviceable QB for a couple of games?
    If the rest of the league thought he was genuinely a QB who could play and win 10+ games in a season (ie. the same number RGIII won, so that would make him just as good as RGIII), then you can be damn certain the Redskins would have recouped one of those 1st round picks they traded away last year for him

    Cousins sure looked good when he went 3-10 for 31 yards against us in the playoffs that's for sure
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  • themunn wrote:
    Chukarhawk wrote:some of the guys I list like Cousins, are there becuase of upside and having watched them play, they are light years ahead of Tjack. Look at cousins play, his pocket presence is already way ahead of Jackson.


    How much does Cousins benefit from the "backup we've never seen play before" factor that made John Skelton (and strangely, Kevin Kolb when he returned from injury) look like a serviceable QB for a couple of games?
    If the rest of the league thought he was genuinely a QB who could play and win 10+ games in a season (ie. the same number RGIII won, so that would make him just as good as RGIII), then you can be damn certain the Redskins would have recouped one of those 1st round picks they traded away last year for him

    Cousins sure looked good when he went 3-10 for 31 yards against us in the playoffs that's for sure

    And Matt Cassell led the Pats to the playoffs in TB's absence, he sure did great in KC last year. Hell you could argue Cassell's not even a quality backup for how shite he looked in KC.
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  • Happypuppy wrote:Tjack still completed 60% of his passes and threw for for over 3000 yards. His QBR was a bit over 79. He was also sacked a lot also. I don't think these numbers a too bad for a backup QB that has the familiarity and respect of many of the Seahawks


    His passer rating was 79, true.

    His QBR was 37.7

    In that goofy ESPN stat, 50 represents "average" and 100 is the max.

    For context:
    Alex Smith was the NFC West leader that year with a QBR of 45.8.
    Skelton was 35.1 and Kolb came in at 34.4.
    Bradford ranked 32nd in the league with 28.6.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2011
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  • QBR is a garbage stat, but at least this one time, it doesn't sound too far off. The median passer rating in 2011 was 86, so a 79 passer rating would have been pretty close to 37.7th percentile in that area too.
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  • It's official, T-Jack signed his deal.

    http://mynorthwest.com/292/2295297/Tarvaris-Jackson-back-in-Seahawks-plans

    Quarterback Tarvaris Jackson may not have been on the field for the Seahawks' final offseason workout, but he is in the team's plans after signing a one-year contract with Seattle Thursday afternoon.
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  • kidhawk wrote:It's official, T-Jack signed his deal.

    http://mynorthwest.com/292/2295297/Tarvaris-Jackson-back-in-Seahawks-plans

    Quarterback Tarvaris Jackson may not have been on the field for the Seahawks' final offseason workout, but he is in the team's plans after signing a one-year contract with Seattle Thursday afternoon.



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  • I wonder if it is more than league minimum. He signed before for 4 mill a year but obviously he's not getting anything like that now.
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  • RichNhansom wrote:I wonder if it is more than league minimum. He signed before for 4 mill a year but obviously he's not getting anything like that now.


    He's a vet, so the league minimum is already in the millions. He'll probably get minimum and be happy with that. He's in no position for negotiations as a backup when no other team is looking.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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  • The real question is what was the signing bonus. If they wanted to entice him, they may have increased the signing bonus so he'd at least have some money in his pocket if he doesn't stick around
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  • My guess is T-Jack won't look very good against our secondary either. Most starters in this league won't.
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  • I'm happy about this. TJ can go .500 with this team easily if called on, if Pete/JS think Quinn can do better, then Quinn will be the guy instead. Nothing but upside here.
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  • There really seems to be two points in this argument:

    Group A thinks Tarvaris Jackson is the perfect BACK UP QB, despite his pedestrian stats he has familiarity within Bevell's system (he has been in Bevell's system in all but 1 season), T-Jack garnered mad respect of his Seahawks teammates during his 2011 season as the Seahawks starting QB , so much so, that the Seahawks had to trade him in order to move the chain of command to either Wilson or Flynn. While Jackson has pedestrian stats, he is still better than Quinn.

    Group C thinks Tarvaris Jackson isn't the answer and never will be. They have argued points against him as if he will become the starting QB. Stating that he has slow drop back and an even slower read. Argued against Quinn is that Quinn has never been on good teams and still has a considerable amount of upside. (Which is almost fruitless because T-Jack was drafted in 2006, Quinn in 2007). T Jack couldn’t also survive the Buffalo Bills. So he’s worthless. Except for the facts that T-Jackson had to endure 3 changes of scenery in 3 years, 1) Vikings to the Seahawks in a lock-out shortened year 2) Seahawks to Bills in a trade in which he had to learn a new system for the first time in his career 3) Coaching change, FO change, meant another new system on the only team that spent a 1st round pick on a QB.

    Simply to say Jackson isn’t worthwhile or worthless because he didn’t do jack squat with the Bills is a very cheap and ill formed statement.

    However, the camp in Group A and the camp in Group C need to conform to the logical reason to those of Group B:

    1) Tarvaris Jackson, although signed, isn’t going to be handed the back-up job, he’s going to have to compete for it with Quinn and Johnson

    2) That fans can think and say whatever they want, but it’s the Seahawks that have the final decision as to who will make this team, they’ll pick the best guy they feel is best fit to backup Russell Wilson.

    3) Whether that guy is Jackson, Quinn, or even Johnson… the best way to find out who will be that guy behind Wilson is competition…give the QB who probably thinks he’s in comfortable space a reason to watch his back, make the QB who is fighting for a chance feel like he has an even slimmer chance, and give another opportunity to a QB that deserves another opportunity to be part of this team but guarantee him nothing…. One of these guys will come out on top and likely better than they were going in.

    It is not about “Who your favorite?” or “Who deserves it?” or “Who has the most upside?”… It’s about constructing the best 53 players out of 90 or so players and winning some damn football games to hoist a Lombardi.
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  • i'll just leave this hear

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  • So how much are they paying for TJak?

    It is Quinn money it is a fantastic deal. If they are paying him double that I am not going to be so upbeat.
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  • Why does it matter how much he's making?

    Now people wanna count the mans money, some of you are pathetic.
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  • T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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  • Cartire wrote:T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.


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  • Cartire wrote:T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.

    Interesting, I don't believe anyone's brought that up yet.
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  • ClumsyLurk wrote:
    Cartire wrote:T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.

    Interesting, I don't believe anyone's brought that up yet.

    As a poster, I think you have no upside.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    ClumsyLurk wrote:
    Cartire wrote:T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.

    Interesting, I don't believe anyone's brought that up yet.

    As a poster, I think you have no upside.

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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    ClumsyLurk wrote:
    Cartire wrote:T-Jack is back, its a fact.

    Oh btw, this is for the backup spot. I dont remember so much controversy over a backup position.

    Interesting, I don't believe anyone's brought that up yet.

    As a poster, I think you have no upside.


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  • It's' not counting his money. If he is getting paid twice what Quinn is it could be a factor in whether he stays or not. Our cap is real important coming into the near future.
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  • Wow, 16 pages over the return of a potential backup QB.

    All I'll say is what I told Leif the other day. It feels good, for a change, to be able to discuss the merits of multiple tragically flawed quarterbacks as the Seahawks BACKUP QB. I'm so used to these discussions about a QB's limitations, flaws, etc. being about the Seahawks starting QB. It's nice to finally have that Franchise guy leading the way, one who the rest of the league will envy at season's end if they don't already.

    That's what I'm taking away from these 16 pages of gloriousness. Where the names Tarvaris Jackson, Brady Quinn, and Jerrod Johnson have been dropped more than their families would probably even care to admit.

    Oh, and who else is hyped for TJack on the Real Rob Report?! I know I am!
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  • RichNhansom wrote:It's' not counting his money. If he is getting paid twice what Quinn is it could be a factor in whether he stays or not. Our cap is real important coming into the near future.


    The only way getting paid double Quinn would affect his staying or not would be the possibility of him going. We know we have our starter, so they aren't going to go out and overpay the backup. Quinn is scheduled to make $715,000 this year, I'd expect Jackson's salary to be perhaps slightly more, but in a similar ball park.
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  • he's back
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  • Does anyone know what Jackson resigned for in Buffalo before he was released?
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  • RichNhansom wrote:Does anyone know what Jackson resigned for in Buffalo before he was released?


    He was still on the contract that he signed with Seattle during his time with the Bills. He signed a two year, 8 million dollar deal with the Hawks in 2011, with him earning 2 mil in 2011 and 4 mil in 2012 (with Buffalo. Great move looking back on it when you consider cost/production/draft pick that turned into Harvin). If you're wondering, the additional two million were individual/team performance incentives available.

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2011/08/26/mcintyre-a-closer-look-at-hawks-contracts-2/

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    The first unrestricted free agent the Seahawks added was quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, who agreed to a two-year, $8 million contract that immediately drew comparisons to Charlie Whitehurst’s deal from last March. While Whitehurst’s contract was technically a one-year, $6.8 million extension – Whitehurst had signed a one-year restricted free agent tender worth $1.176 million before the trade – the structures of the deals for the two quarterbacks are nearly identical.


    Whitehurst received a $2 million roster bonus and $2 million base salary in 2010, with a $4 million base salary in 2011 and $1 million in incentives in each year of the contract. Jackson received a $1.5 million signing bonus and will receive a $500,000 roster bonus if he’s on the 53-man roster for Week One. Jackson has base salaries of $2 million in 2011 and $4 million in 2012, with $2.05 million in individual and team performance incentives available between the two years ($1 million in 2011, $1.05 million in 2012).
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  • He was scheduled to make a $1.25m base salary from Buffalo. They also paid him a $500,000 signing/workout bonus, which he has already pocketed.
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  • NYCoug wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Does anyone know what Jackson resigned for in Buffalo before he was released?


    He was still on the contract that he signed with Seattle during his time with the Bills. He signed a two year, 8 million dollar deal with the Hawks in 2011, with him earning 2 mil in 2011 and 4 mil in 2012 (with Buffalo. Great move looking back on it when you consider cost/production/draft pick that turned into Harvin). If you're wondering, the additional two million were individual/team performance incentives available.

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2011/08/26/mcintyre-a-closer-look-at-hawks-contracts-2/

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    The first unrestricted free agent the Seahawks added was quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, who agreed to a two-year, $8 million contract that immediately drew comparisons to Charlie Whitehurst’s deal from last March. While Whitehurst’s contract was technically a one-year, $6.8 million extension – Whitehurst had signed a one-year restricted free agent tender worth $1.176 million before the trade – the structures of the deals for the two quarterbacks are nearly identical.


    Whitehurst received a $2 million roster bonus and $2 million base salary in 2010, with a $4 million base salary in 2011 and $1 million in incentives in each year of the contract. Jackson received a $1.5 million signing bonus and will receive a $500,000 roster bonus if he’s on the 53-man roster for Week One. Jackson has base salaries of $2 million in 2011 and $4 million in 2012, with $2.05 million in individual and team performance incentives available between the two years ($1 million in 2011, $1.05 million in 2012).



    Actually we traded Jackson in his last year of his contract. This is true, but the Bills re-signed him to a new contract for the 2013 season, then they had the regime change and the draft and free agency and went in another direction.

    Jackson has $550,000 from the bills for his trouble. That is the dead money attributed to cutting him. Likely that was a signing bonus, although it could have been guaranteed money. Basically he was paid half a million to miss out on a few months of free agency
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  • I just got owned hard!

    Well done David and kidhawk :bow:

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  • TJack got caked up and now he's gonna get a ring? Who the hell has it better than him?
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  • RichNhansom wrote:It's' not counting his money. If he is getting paid twice what Quinn is it could be a factor in whether he stays or not. Our cap is real important coming into the near future.


    Why would Jackson's salary play into it at all? I highly doubt he signed for all that much more than Quinn. And even if he did, so what? He signed a one year deal. The Hawks wouldn't have signed him to a contract that screws up their salary cap this year. That makes no sense at all. Going into it, they had something like $4 mil in cap space. Even if TJack made over a mil, they'd be fine. This isn't like Matt Flynn making starter money and impacting your ability to re-sign Chancellor or make other moves. The roster is basically set. They aren't adding $4 mil more salary between now and week one.
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  • Throwdown wrote:TJack got caked up and now he's gonna get a ring? Who the hell has it better than him?


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  • It's just a question Sea town relax. The point was of he signed for let's say 1.5 and Quinn is at .75 then it could play into decision making. That would actually support the supporters because the FO onviously UST think higher of him and if it didn't work out it could partially be for financial reason.

    As for the cap, every penny is going to be important soon and 3/4 of a mill could be rolled into next years cap.
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  • According to the Seahawks twitter, Jerrod Johnson was cut for Jackson's spot.
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    Throwdown
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  • Throwdown wrote:According to the Seahawks twitter, Jerrod Johnson was cut for Jackson's spot.


    Say it ain't so! Now we'll never win a Super Bowl!
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    Spounge84
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  • Throwdown wrote:TJack got caked up and now he's gonna get a ring? Who the hell has it better than him?


    Seriously, he's getting hooked up pretty good here. Nobody can say he got mistreated by Seattle, that's for sure. He got a full year to start, proved he was a tough career backup, got hit by the RW bullet train, shipped to Buffalo, paid half a mil, then back to Seattle for the ice. Hopefully that'll innoculate us against the whiners who used to talk about how bad the poor guy always had it.
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  • SeaTown81 wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:It's' not counting his money. If he is getting paid twice what Quinn is it could be a factor in whether he stays or not. Our cap is real important coming into the near future.


    Why would Jackson's salary play into it at all? I highly doubt he signed for all that much more than Quinn. And even if he did, so what? He signed a one year deal. The Hawks wouldn't have signed him to a contract that screws up their salary cap this year. That makes no sense at all. Going into it, they had something like $4 mil in cap space. Even if TJack made over a mil, they'd be fine. This isn't like Matt Flynn making starter money and impacting your ability to re-sign Chancellor or make other moves. The roster is basically set. They aren't adding $4 mil more salary between now and week one.


    Cap rolls. $4million over this year is $4million you can spend next year. The money left under the cap now matters unlike before

    Hey Sherman - do you want to make $1million less per year than you think you are worth because we signed TJack over Quinn

    Just saying it matters. If you get your moneys worth then great if you are not then you don't spend it just because you are under the cap
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  • T-Jax is terrible. League average QB (at absolute BEST) for 3 quarters, and an absolute disaster in the 4th Quarter. He almost ruined my Christmas 2 years ago in that Xmas eve loss to the 9ers. That entire season I said we were a QB away from an instant 10 win team, and I'll be damned I was right. The least clutch Seahawks QB I've seen. To go from him to perhaps the most clutch Hawks QB in franchise history (time will tell but it looks bright for RW), I couldn't be more excited. The only problem is Brady Quinn might be just as terrible. I hated to get rid of Flynn as an insurance policiy, but seeing that money turned into some of the great signings they made makes me not as scared about that move. Everybody do a toast to Russell Wilson staying healthy this season and rendering this debate meaningless
    Diehard lifetime Hawks fan and CFL hater. Jacked beyond belief for the Russ Wilson era !!
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