RW after week 1 last season

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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Sun May 26, 2013 9:13 pm
  • pehawk wrote:There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    ...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 6:58 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    pehawk wrote:There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    ...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...


    Hmm. Rings not be too important then to let a few of them slip, then.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 7:11 am
  • Russell Wilson is the son of Zeus.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 7:16 am
  • Throwdown wrote:Russell Wilson is the son of Zeus.


    B S he IS Zeus :D
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 7:33 am
  • pehawk wrote:
    Cartire wrote:
    pehawk wrote:There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    ...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...


    Hmm. Rings not be too important then to let a few of them slip, then.


    Like who?

    Eli is just crappy enough, where if he didnt win 2 rings, he would never have never be considered as someone who has the IT factor.

    Plenty of guys have only 1 ring, and there stats were poor enough that they never had the IT factor. Trent Dilfer ring a bell.

    But win enough rings, and you all of a sudden have it.

    So you either have the stats to back up the IT factor, (Dan Marino anyone), or you have multiple rings. This is the defining IT factor. No one else has IT.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 7:48 am
  • pehawk wrote:Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

    There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:01 am
  • AF_Hawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

    There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.


    Of course he was. And not a single person said he had the IT factor when he came into the league. He was a 6th round talent as a career backup. All off a sudden he's amazing, and now its because he has the IT factor. Do you see what im saying here. This is the whole point.

    No one has IT until they are proven. And the Stats are what prove it. Lots of people will make claims before someone is proven that they have IT (Jamarcus Russel), but as soon as they fail, they no longer have IT.

    Does Brandon Weeden have the IT factor? No. But let him win 2 superbowls, and I guarantee every single person will say he has IT.

    Stats or Rings. The only quantifier for IT. A great buzz word.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:11 am
  • pehawk wrote:There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

    Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

    It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

    I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.

    That's a smug, self-serving take on the situation. Way to pat yourself on the back and put down those who had a different take on the QB situation at the time. For one thing, stats had nothing to do with it. Neither QB had put up any stats to go by. What the concern in the minds of those who wanted to start Flynn was had to do with Wilson being a rookie with a rookie learning curve that would cost the Seahawks games in a season where people felt we could contend for the title. Flynn didn't have a lot of starts, but he was ready to start. Given the choice of a veteran who's ready to start and a rookie who had half the snaps a QB usually gets in the preseason, it was totally logical to think the team will struggle and lose more games starting the rook.

    And it was true. We did. Just look at how lousy AZ was last year and we lost that game. Then look at how good SF was that year and how we blew them out later in the season once Wilson had caught on.

    It was never about Wilson not having the talent. It was about winning NOW. That was made perfectly plain to those who backed Wilson from the get go by those backing Flynn. To overlook that point now and pat yourself on the back for "understanding the game" is smug, self-serving and disingenuous.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:27 am
  • Maaahhh, Salish, did I hurt your feelings? I'm sorry, snookums, hugs!

    Actually, its the opposite of self-serving. I'm an ex-junkie idiot and I could see, without a doubt, Wilson was going to just be a winner. It wasn't something I could back with stats, or measurables, it was just a sense. And, ALOT of others got that same feeling...stating it from preseason on.

    So, it cant be that me, a HS drop-out, junkie is smarter than anyone. It must be sometimes people are too focused on measurables. Their focus is so laser-pointed, they cant see anything else. The same way I'd be susceptible to focusing too much on an intangible and be wrong because of that (Tui, Leif, Henne are personal examples).

    I may come off like a confident douche, but its really the opposite.

    And, Cartire, you made my point by pointing out how crappy Eli can look. He'll always be crappy, but he'll always be in the mix too. That was fairly evident, more evident actually, seeing him at Ole Miss. The opposite of his brother, who needed Tee Martin to get his title for him.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:47 am
  • It wasn't the stats that mislead people. It was how many of us interpreted them. People looked at the poor numbers from a small sample size, extrapolated that across the entire season, and said, "Oh sweet mother of God, we might want to pull Wilson if we want to make the playoffs" or something bolder to that effect with much more profanity. It's the same fear motivating people to pull their stock in a recession. In the end, the numbers said he wasn't playing well, and he certainly wasn't, but the eyes said he was growing increasingly steadfast in his ability to play the game, and he certainly was. If you're throwing statistical analysis under the bus because it was misused/overused by your fellow fans, that's pretty fallacious.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:51 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    It was never about Wilson not having the talent. It was about winning NOW. That was made perfectly plain to those who backed Wilson from the get go by those backing Flynn. To overlook that point now and pat yourself on the back for "understanding the game" is smug, self-serving and disingenuous.


    I can't speak for everyone who was backing Wilson from the start, but for me, I agree that it's about winning NOW.

    But I was (and still am) of the belief that the only way for a QB to reach his potential is by playing. Really, really playing. Not sitting and holding a clipboard, not watching someone else, but by actually being out in it.

    Add that to the belief I had (and still have) that Wilson's talent FAR outshines anything Flynn can deliver, and that's why I argued so vociferously for Wilson and against Flynn. To start Flynn, in my view, was to do nothing more than agree that we're all fine with 7-9 to 9-7 seasons and that average is just fine and dandy by us. In my view, Flynn was and will ever be nothing more than a stopgap, a journeyman type of QB. He's not the guy who can take a team, put it on his back, and lead them to a crucial victory. I believe Wilson IS that type of QB, and so in the interests of winning NOW, it made absolutely no sense to me to start Flynn. All it would be doing was setting us back a year or more while we twiddled our thumbs with a journeyman QB when we had a potential superstar just sitting his ass on the pine. We'd have been wasting time and watching our defensive stars and our top-flight RB getting a year older while we settled for mediocrity instead of taking a chance and swinging for the fences with Wilson's massive potential.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 8:54 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

    There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


    I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.


    Of course he was. And not a single person said he had the IT factor when he came into the league. He was a 6th round talent as a career backup. All off a sudden he's amazing, and now its because he has the IT factor. Do you see what im saying here. This is the whole point.

    No one has IT until they are proven. And the Stats are what prove it. Lots of people will make claims before someone is proven that they have IT (Jamarcus Russel), but as soon as they fail, they no longer have IT.

    Does Brandon Weeden have the IT factor? No. But let him win 2 superbowls, and I guarantee every single person will say he has IT.

    Stats or Rings. The only quantifier for IT. A great buzz word.


    I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

    There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 9:02 am
  • AF_Hawk wrote:I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

    There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


    I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

    Eli has 2 superbowls
    Brady has 3.

    Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

    I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.
    hawksincebirth wrote:So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 9:10 am
  • But HE DOES HAVE TWO RINGS, BECAUSE OF HIS IT FACTOR. That's the point. And, alot of people knew he would be an ugly QB who won, because, wait for it, he has more it than ebay.

    Now, Wilson has the most "it" I've ever seen in my 35 years following the game. I could be wrong on it, way wrong, but I doubt it. It's too obvious. I just cant comprehend anyone NOT seeing that.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 9:10 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

    There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


    I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

    Eli has 2 superbowls
    Brady has 3.

    Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

    I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.


    I just don't agree that stats and rings prove you have IT.

    Edit. Obviously having IT is subjective, lol.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 9:43 am
  • I don't really get the premise of this thread. If you look at Flynn's resume, BCS title in his only year starting, GB records, come from behind win against Detroit in a playoff environment and would have been against the Pats if the defense would have done anything, nearly doubling Brady's production in that game with wind, rain and snow that kept Brady's numbers very pedestrian and then cap it off by actually watching his play. How he goes through his progressions, reads defenses, utilizes the whole field, makes line calls on and on you could easily make the argument that Flynn has that IT factor.

    I remember jewhawk posting a link the the Detroit game as evidence of Flynns poor play and the overwhelming response was WOW, that link completely accomplished the opposite of his goal.

    We don't know how it would have worked out had they started Flynn so these debates are pretty pointless but those trying to make the argument for or against the IT factor while simultaneously trying to say Flynn hasn't shown anything are really reaching.

    We will see soon enough if Flynn is a capable starter. I don't expect him to carry Oakland to any promise land as I wouldn't expect Brady, Eli or even Peyton to be able to carry that team in the current condition it is in but I think we will be able to formulate a much better opinion of whether Flynn can be starter quality or is really just a back up.

    I am betting he looks pretty good all things considered in Oakland.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 10:35 am
  • Cartire wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

    There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


    I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

    Eli has 2 superbowls
    Brady has 3.

    Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

    I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.


    Yeah but PE's point is that some of us, many of us, saw and believed that RW had IT even when he didn't have the stats to back it up yet.

    Of course hindsight tells us whether a player was good enough to succeed or not. Sometimes you can see it as it's happening. That's not hindsight.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 10:43 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    dumbrabbit wrote:Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


    Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


    Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:10 am
  • SeaTown81 wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    dumbrabbit wrote:Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


    Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


    Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.


    To be fair.. Flynn is playing FOR OAKLAND.

    Name 2 players on their offense not named Darren McFadden. Without cheating.

    The guy had much more talent in Seattle and Green Bay obviously. So yeah I think it's a little unfair to expect great things out of him as a Raider next year. I still think Matt Flynn can be a good QB in this league, but it's pretty apparent Russell Wilson is one of those "once every decade" type QB's... whereas Flynn is a "once every 1-2 years in Round 3" type guy.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:12 am
  • Jacoby Ford, Denarius Moore...
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:16 am
  • Bo Jackson, Tim Brown...
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:26 am
  • Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:27 am
  • JSeahawks wrote:Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.


    Didn't they acquire Willie Gault?
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:33 am
  • Not gonna lie.....I thought that we should of given Flynn a look at that point. Glad I was wrong though!
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:36 am
  • SeaTown81 wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    dumbrabbit wrote:Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


    Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


    Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.


    For the record I thought trading him was a necessity, But you also have those people who are going to want to either ignore the supporting cast or are just plain ignorant to the fact it matters. It will likely be alot of those guys who hitched their wagon to Flynn sucks even though they could never explain why and either ignored his performances or were ignorant to them.

    It also depends on how you measure success. If it is only in the win loss column then yeah I think Flynn is screwed for next year but much like the premise of this thread, you should be able to see if he is comfortable in the pocket, goes through his progressions, makes accurate throws, stays calm under pressure on and on. Sometimes it takes more than a good QB to bail a team out. Look at the Seahawks from 2008 to 2010. First thing Pete and John did was have a fire sale. If you think Wilson would have looked anything in those offenses like he did last year you are dreaming.

    A good supporting cast will make an average QB look much better and vice verse.

    I think you will also see Ponder and Papaki both take huge steps back this season in large part to the supporting cast.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:51 am
  • Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

    What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 11:51 am
  • Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

    What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 12:32 pm
  • Cartire wrote:
    AF_Hawk wrote:I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

    There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


    I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

    Eli has 2 superbowls
    Brady has 3.

    Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

    I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.

    OHH! :34853_doh: , now I get "IT"
    So until Wilson wins a Super Bowl, he won't be PROVEN to have the "IT FACTOR", :th2thumbs: GOTCHA!
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 pm
  • pehawk wrote:There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

    Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

    It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

    I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.


    Badda bing badda boom. This is a great explanation. I will throw another one out, and that's all of the same guys who couldn't go on long enough about how worthless Ichiro was to the 2001 Mariners, and how they were seeing stuff that wasn't there, because the stats PROVED he wasn't good. They PROVED IT. Look at his amount of walks and his OBP and his OPS and there is PROOF that Ichiro SUCKED and that the team was headed nowhere.

    Last time I checked, that was the last competitive baseball team that took the field as the home squad in Safeco and Ichiro was clearly the difference on that team, but statheads were having their brains explode because their metric said he sucked, and they couldn't deny hard enough that there was no such thing as "it" and "it" doesn't make a team better from top to bottom when you all of a sudden inject "it" into the equation.

    We saw it with Ichiro, we saw it with Russ, I'll go so far as to say we saw it with the guy with the "worst stats" on the 90's Sonics in Nate McMillan. Facts showed that the Sonics were a better team when they had both Payton and Mac on the court at the same time, and that's what they did. When Payton was running the point on his own and Mac was on the bench early in Glove's career then he struggled, the team struggled. Then "Glue" started getting extended minutes with "Glove" and the team as a whole became exponentially better and Glove became one of the best players to ever suit up. Interesting to watch statheads blow up when they would go off and say Mac needed to sit down and blahbedy blah blah, but the evidence was in the success that the TEAM was having. Same with Russ. Same with Ichi-balls (thank Buhner for that one), and same with the Sonics rotations in about 95-96-ish. Even Derrick McKey started to play like he was always supposed to. ;)
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 3:55 pm
  • Not to take any magic from Wilson, but we will never know how are seaon would have ended if we started Flynn.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 4:26 pm
  • We also will never know how our season would have ended if Clemons had been taken out for one play for a breather and not blown out his knee, or if we had kept Mike Williams around instead of Braylon Edwards, or let TO stick on the roster. There are always a million possibilities. I think the fact that we got the season we did with a rookie QB is one of the greatest success stories ever, so I am not one who really cares what Flynn might have done. Just as I'm not all that interested in seeing what T-Jack might have done. I really liked both guys, and thought they were both great teammates and hard workers, but we have our guy now, and that's what we really needed more than anything out of last year. Now it's time to move forward, and we took that one big step that needed to take place. Everything after qualifying for the playoffs was a bonus. Actually everything beyond smashing the holy hell out of the 49ers on a week where the 9ers were a "shoo-in" to win due to the media's infatuation with Captain Comeback and his tantrums was pretty much gravy in my book.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 4:46 pm
  • 12thMode wrote:Not to take any magic from Wilson, but we will never know how are seaon would have ended if we started Flynn.


    We don't know how it would have gone at all. I'm guessing it'd be closer to 8-8 and no playoffs than :30 away from the NFCCG though. Flynn doesn't appear to have IT IMO.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 5:09 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:Badda bing badda boom. This is a great explanation. I will throw another one out, and that's all of the same guys who couldn't go on long enough about how worthless Ichiro was to the 2001 Mariners, and how they were seeing stuff that wasn't there, because the stats PROVED he wasn't good. They PROVED IT. Look at his amount of walks and his OBP and his OPS and there is PROOF that Ichiro SUCKED and that the team was headed nowhere.

    Last time I checked, that was the last competitive baseball team that took the field as the home squad in Safeco and Ichiro was clearly the difference on that team, but statheads were having their brains explode because their metric said he sucked, and they couldn't deny hard enough that there was no such thing as "it" and "it" doesn't make a team better from top to bottom when you all of a sudden inject "it" into the equation.

    We saw it with Ichiro, we saw it with Russ, I'll go so far as to say we saw it with the guy with the "worst stats" on the 90's Sonics in Nate McMillan. Facts showed that the Sonics were a better team when they had both Payton and Mac on the court at the same time, and that's what they did. When Payton was running the point on his own and Mac was on the bench early in Glove's career then he struggled, the team struggled. Then "Glue" started getting extended minutes with "Glove" and the team as a whole became exponentially better and Glove became one of the best players to ever suit up. Interesting to watch statheads blow up when they would go off and say Mac needed to sit down and blahbedy blah blah, but the evidence was in the success that the TEAM was having. Same with Russ. Same with Ichi-balls (thank Buhner for that one), and same with the Sonics rotations in about 95-96-ish. Even Derrick McKey started to play like he was always supposed to. ;)


    The irony of this is the best scouting departments use both traditional methods and statistics to evaluate players. The stat geek vs fundamentalist meat-head debate is useless because people can be both or combine their skills with the differing skills of others, and this is exactly what the best scouts and scouting departments do. If you're throwing statistics under the bus when it comes to evaluating players, that's like trying to win a boxing match with your non-dominant hand tied behind your back. It can be done but why voluntarily handicap yourself so severely?
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 5:25 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start?


    What idiot would do that?

    :mrgreen:


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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 5:30 pm
  • The "IT factor" isn't real. It's like "muscle memory" or "intelligence" in that it's a phrase or word we use to describe a variety of different biological nuances and traits combining together to form some immense quality in a person. ("Muscle memory" is used to describe mainly the white matter brain tissue myelin and the very important job it does. "Intelligence" is usually used to describe innate ability and expertise/experience in a given task or set of tasks.) "IT factor" is likely along similar lines with only a subtle advantage separating the good from the great, or there's no advantage at all and we're just saying people have "it" to attribute what's truly a streak of good luck to a person's skill (this is in fact a well-documented bias we all have to some extent or another, although it's based on studying occupations where it's easier to separate luck from skill). Either way, we can't actually say if anyone has "it" or not until we actually know what "it" is. We can keep guessing though.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Mon May 27, 2013 6:19 pm
  • Good stuff, BirdsCommaAngry. But, I think we are getting close to quantifying "it"...we're getting closer with every nerdy stats sight put up.

    And, honestly, I dont know if I'll like the game as much when/if a time comes where the "humanity" portion of the game is able to be measured with a %. I just dont know..
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Tue May 28, 2013 12:59 am
  • It factor is most certainly real. Especially when it comes to NFL qb's. Anyone who argues otherwise works for Skynet and should not be trusted.
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Re: RW after week 1 last season
Tue May 28, 2013 2:03 am
  • Blitzer88 wrote:Not gonna lie.....I thought that we should of given Flynn a look at that point. Glad I was wrong though!


    OF COURSE YOU DID! Why am I not surprised?!
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