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 Post subject: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:30 am 
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i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start? Did you think it was the right decision to start RW? Obviously it was, but I don't really remember the reaction. Also does anyone have ALL RW's highlights of the game?

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:16 am 
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Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:32 am 
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Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start? Did you think it was the right decision to start RW? Obviously it was, but I don't really remember the reaction. Also does anyone have ALL RW's highlights of the game?


A lot were calling for Flynn, but I was pretty content with his final drive that game to the goal line, its not his fault Edwards and Baldwin couldn't hang on to the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:38 am 
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If we had got just 1 of 2 ather than 0 of those possible end zone catches RW would have been a winner in his 1st real NFL game. Both were possible plays were the ball was well placed. I was impressed with his ability to stand up to a well designed blitz package

To me I was nervous about his early seeming quickness to bail from the pocket, but he seemed to get stronger each series as he gained confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:13 am 
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Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start?


What idiot would do that?

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:13 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start? Did you think it was the right decision to start RW? Obviously it was, but I don't really remember the reaction. Also does anyone have ALL RW's highlights of the game?


A lot were calling for Flynn, but I was pretty content with his final drive that game to the goal line, its not his fault Edwards and Baldwin couldn't hang on to the ball.


Didn't we have something like 7 downs to make that score? Gah. Seeing Dougie flub that catch in the end zone on 4th down still haunts me to this day.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:59 am 
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Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start? Did you think it was the right decision to start RW? Obviously it was, but I don't really remember the reaction. Also does anyone have ALL RW's highlights of the game?


They were even through the Dolphins game. Most those people now have amnesia though. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:01 am 
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dumbrabbit wrote:
Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:06 am 
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SmokinHawk wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start? Did you think it was the right decision to start RW? Obviously it was, but I don't really remember the reaction. Also does anyone have ALL RW's highlights of the game?


A lot were calling for Flynn, but I was pretty content with his final drive that game to the goal line, its not his fault Edwards and Baldwin couldn't hang on to the ball.


Didn't we have something like 7 downs to make that score? Gah. Seeing Dougie flub that catch in the end zone on 4th down still haunts me to this day.

Wasn't the 4th down incompletion to Braylon Edwards? Last play of the game, right?

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:14 am 
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Recon_Hawk wrote:
Wasn't the 4th down incompletion to Braylon Edwards? Last play of the game, right?


That is correct. Right through his hands.

DB lost a couple of teef in that series too.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:18 am 
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There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:46 am 
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400WattHPSHawk wrote:
Recon_Hawk wrote:
Wasn't the 4th down incompletion to Braylon Edwards? Last play of the game, right?


That is correct. Right through his hands.

DB lost a couple of teef in that series too.

That's right! It was that play he tried a full out superman catch, but couldn't come down with it and landed right on his face. It was excellent effort just too tough of a catch.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:05 am 
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I wanted Flynn to start that game, but by the time the game ended, I was sold on Wilson. In his first game, in a very hostile environment, with a Cards team licking their chops to get after a first timer, Wilson adapted quickly. He had the team in a position to win on the road and the team let him down.

I think if that game were played in week 12 with the same lineup in AZ, that he would have killed them. I think if Flynn started that game, that the Hawks would have won, I even think the Hawks would be 10-6, maybe 9-7, but PC was able to give Wilson the learning experience while going 500.

Once Wilson was given the green light with the offense, he tore it up, in fact he made it look easy.

This guy is special, it was evident as soon as he was given the chance. Holding him back was the safe move IMHO. Flynn would have won games as the starter, but Wilson is next-level and is just starting.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:50 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.


This is a load of crap. Stats are the IT factor. And hindsight is the only thing that ever quantifies a quarterback. Eli has the IT factor because he won 2 superbowls. If that never happened, Eli would be in the same sentences as Philip Rivers. Everyone can see potential in anyone that makes it into the NFL. And when that person does was he is suppose to, and wins, its easy to say, "Its obvious he had the IT factor".

I can tell you who else had the IT factor when they entered in the NFL. Jarmacus Russel, Aaron Currey, Ryan Leaf... ect. We can all site reasons, in hindsight of their careers, for why they didnt have the IT factor. But they had IT when they were in apparently. The IT factor, has and always will be, nothing but hindsight praise.

Now all that being said. I think Wilson has the IT factor.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Hasselbeck wrote:
Crizilla wrote:
i cant remember but was anyone flipping out and screaming for Flynn to start?


What idiot would do that?

:mrgreen:


We get it, you HATE Wilson. Jesus, let it go.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Cartire wrote:
I can tell you who else had the IT factor when they entered in the NFL. Jarmacus Russel, Aaron Currey, Ryan Leaf... ect. We can all site reasons, in hindsight of their careers, for why they didnt have the IT factor. But they had IT when they were in apparently. The IT factor, has and always will be, nothing but hindsight praise.


The IT factor is exactly what those guys didn't have.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Cartire wrote:
I can tell you who else had the IT factor when they entered in the NFL. Jarmacus Russel, Aaron Currey, Ryan Leaf... ect. We can all site reasons, in hindsight of their careers, for why they didnt have the IT factor. But they had IT when they were in apparently. The IT factor, has and always will be, nothing but hindsight praise.


The IT factor is exactly what those guys didn't have.


Of course not, cause in hindsight, we can say that. But this is my point. Had they succeeded, you would all continue to say they have it. But they didnt, so we now change this to the obvious answer of, no IT factor.

The stats are what quantify the IT factor. So its a load of crap when people say they know football better then stat geeks, because they can see the IT factor.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:55 pm 
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where's the classic quote from whomever who said Wilson was the worst Seahawks QB he'd ever seen and he'd been around to see them all again?
someone dig it out for me


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:04 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
dumbrabbit wrote:
Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


I really hate these kind of premature statements. Flynn is a solid WCO style QB and he is also a winner. In every chance he's gotten to play and show his skills from High School to the NFL he has put his team in position to win a game even winning a national championship. Flynn is still in the NFL, can't say that about JaMarcus Russell can you.

I'm not a big Flynn supporter so don't mark me as so (I didn't care who the QB was last year, I just wanted to win games) but I hope Flynn does well, and I hope he succeeds.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:13 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:58 am 
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Cartire wrote:
pehawk wrote:
There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...


Hmm. Rings not be too important then to let a few of them slip, then.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:16 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
Russell Wilson is the son of Zeus.


B S he IS Zeus :D

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:33 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Cartire wrote:
pehawk wrote:
There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


...except for all of them have the stats to back it up...


Hmm. Rings not be too important then to let a few of them slip, then.


Like who?

Eli is just crappy enough, where if he didnt win 2 rings, he would never have never be considered as someone who has the IT factor.

Plenty of guys have only 1 ring, and there stats were poor enough that they never had the IT factor. Trent Dilfer ring a bell.

But win enough rings, and you all of a sudden have it.

So you either have the stats to back up the IT factor, (Dan Marino anyone), or you have multiple rings. This is the defining IT factor. No one else has IT.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:48 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:01 am 
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AF_Hawk wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.


Of course he was. And not a single person said he had the IT factor when he came into the league. He was a 6th round talent as a career backup. All off a sudden he's amazing, and now its because he has the IT factor. Do you see what im saying here. This is the whole point.

No one has IT until they are proven. And the Stats are what prove it. Lots of people will make claims before someone is proven that they have IT (Jamarcus Russel), but as soon as they fail, they no longer have IT.

Does Brandon Weeden have the IT factor? No. But let him win 2 superbowls, and I guarantee every single person will say he has IT.

Stats or Rings. The only quantifier for IT. A great buzz word.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:11 am 
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pehawk wrote:
There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.

That's a smug, self-serving take on the situation. Way to pat yourself on the back and put down those who had a different take on the QB situation at the time. For one thing, stats had nothing to do with it. Neither QB had put up any stats to go by. What the concern in the minds of those who wanted to start Flynn was had to do with Wilson being a rookie with a rookie learning curve that would cost the Seahawks games in a season where people felt we could contend for the title. Flynn didn't have a lot of starts, but he was ready to start. Given the choice of a veteran who's ready to start and a rookie who had half the snaps a QB usually gets in the preseason, it was totally logical to think the team will struggle and lose more games starting the rook.

And it was true. We did. Just look at how lousy AZ was last year and we lost that game. Then look at how good SF was that year and how we blew them out later in the season once Wilson had caught on.

It was never about Wilson not having the talent. It was about winning NOW. That was made perfectly plain to those who backed Wilson from the get go by those backing Flynn. To overlook that point now and pat yourself on the back for "understanding the game" is smug, self-serving and disingenuous.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:27 am 
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Maaahhh, Salish, did I hurt your feelings? I'm sorry, snookums, hugs!

Actually, its the opposite of self-serving. I'm an ex-junkie idiot and I could see, without a doubt, Wilson was going to just be a winner. It wasn't something I could back with stats, or measurables, it was just a sense. And, ALOT of others got that same feeling...stating it from preseason on.

So, it cant be that me, a HS drop-out, junkie is smarter than anyone. It must be sometimes people are too focused on measurables. Their focus is so laser-pointed, they cant see anything else. The same way I'd be susceptible to focusing too much on an intangible and be wrong because of that (Tui, Leif, Henne are personal examples).

I may come off like a confident douche, but its really the opposite.

And, Cartire, you made my point by pointing out how crappy Eli can look. He'll always be crappy, but he'll always be in the mix too. That was fairly evident, more evident actually, seeing him at Ole Miss. The opposite of his brother, who needed Tee Martin to get his title for him.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:47 am 
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It wasn't the stats that mislead people. It was how many of us interpreted them. People looked at the poor numbers from a small sample size, extrapolated that across the entire season, and said, "Oh sweet mother of God, we might want to pull Wilson if we want to make the playoffs" or something bolder to that effect with much more profanity. It's the same fear motivating people to pull their stock in a recession. In the end, the numbers said he wasn't playing well, and he certainly wasn't, but the eyes said he was growing increasingly steadfast in his ability to play the game, and he certainly was. If you're throwing statistical analysis under the bus because it was misused/overused by your fellow fans, that's pretty fallacious.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:51 am 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:

It was never about Wilson not having the talent. It was about winning NOW. That was made perfectly plain to those who backed Wilson from the get go by those backing Flynn. To overlook that point now and pat yourself on the back for "understanding the game" is smug, self-serving and disingenuous.


I can't speak for everyone who was backing Wilson from the start, but for me, I agree that it's about winning NOW.

But I was (and still am) of the belief that the only way for a QB to reach his potential is by playing. Really, really playing. Not sitting and holding a clipboard, not watching someone else, but by actually being out in it.

Add that to the belief I had (and still have) that Wilson's talent FAR outshines anything Flynn can deliver, and that's why I argued so vociferously for Wilson and against Flynn. To start Flynn, in my view, was to do nothing more than agree that we're all fine with 7-9 to 9-7 seasons and that average is just fine and dandy by us. In my view, Flynn was and will ever be nothing more than a stopgap, a journeyman type of QB. He's not the guy who can take a team, put it on his back, and lead them to a crucial victory. I believe Wilson IS that type of QB, and so in the interests of winning NOW, it made absolutely no sense to me to start Flynn. All it would be doing was setting us back a year or more while we twiddled our thumbs with a journeyman QB when we had a potential superstar just sitting his ass on the pine. We'd have been wasting time and watching our defensive stars and our top-flight RB getting a year older while we settled for mediocrity instead of taking a chance and swinging for the fences with Wilson's massive potential.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:54 am 
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Cartire wrote:
AF_Hawk wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Well, I disagree. I can't expand too much, but, people that rely too much on concrete stats, spirals, arm-strength, measurables are USUALLY right. But, when they're wrong, they're REALLY wrong.

There's no stat that captures the "it" dudes like Ray Lewis, Wilson, Brady, Eli, Montana, etc had. None.


I'm with pe. What kind of stats could people pull for someone like Brady? He was pretty average going into the league.


Of course he was. And not a single person said he had the IT factor when he came into the league. He was a 6th round talent as a career backup. All off a sudden he's amazing, and now its because he has the IT factor. Do you see what im saying here. This is the whole point.

No one has IT until they are proven. And the Stats are what prove it. Lots of people will make claims before someone is proven that they have IT (Jamarcus Russel), but as soon as they fail, they no longer have IT.

Does Brandon Weeden have the IT factor? No. But let him win 2 superbowls, and I guarantee every single person will say he has IT.

Stats or Rings. The only quantifier for IT. A great buzz word.


I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:02 am 
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AF_Hawk wrote:
I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

Eli has 2 superbowls
Brady has 3.

Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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But HE DOES HAVE TWO RINGS, BECAUSE OF HIS IT FACTOR. That's the point. And, alot of people knew he would be an ugly QB who won, because, wait for it, he has more it than ebay.

Now, Wilson has the most "it" I've ever seen in my 35 years following the game. I could be wrong on it, way wrong, but I doubt it. It's too obvious. I just cant comprehend anyone NOT seeing that.


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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Cartire wrote:
AF_Hawk wrote:
I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

Eli has 2 superbowls
Brady has 3.

Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.


I just don't agree that stats and rings prove you have IT.

Edit. Obviously having IT is subjective, lol.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:43 am 
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I don't really get the premise of this thread. If you look at Flynn's resume, BCS title in his only year starting, GB records, come from behind win against Detroit in a playoff environment and would have been against the Pats if the defense would have done anything, nearly doubling Brady's production in that game with wind, rain and snow that kept Brady's numbers very pedestrian and then cap it off by actually watching his play. How he goes through his progressions, reads defenses, utilizes the whole field, makes line calls on and on you could easily make the argument that Flynn has that IT factor.

I remember jewhawk posting a link the the Detroit game as evidence of Flynns poor play and the overwhelming response was WOW, that link completely accomplished the opposite of his goal.

We don't know how it would have worked out had they started Flynn so these debates are pretty pointless but those trying to make the argument for or against the IT factor while simultaneously trying to say Flynn hasn't shown anything are really reaching.

We will see soon enough if Flynn is a capable starter. I don't expect him to carry Oakland to any promise land as I wouldn't expect Brady, Eli or even Peyton to be able to carry that team in the current condition it is in but I think we will be able to formulate a much better opinion of whether Flynn can be starter quality or is really just a back up.

I am betting he looks pretty good all things considered in Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:35 am 
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Cartire wrote:
AF_Hawk wrote:
I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

Eli has 2 superbowls
Brady has 3.

Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.


Yeah but PE's point is that some of us, many of us, saw and believed that RW had IT even when he didn't have the stats to back it up yet.

Of course hindsight tells us whether a player was good enough to succeed or not. Sometimes you can see it as it's happening. That's not hindsight.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:43 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
dumbrabbit wrote:
Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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SeaTown81 wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
dumbrabbit wrote:
Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.


To be fair.. Flynn is playing FOR OAKLAND.

Name 2 players on their offense not named Darren McFadden. Without cheating.

The guy had much more talent in Seattle and Green Bay obviously. So yeah I think it's a little unfair to expect great things out of him as a Raider next year. I still think Matt Flynn can be a good QB in this league, but it's pretty apparent Russell Wilson is one of those "once every decade" type QB's... whereas Flynn is a "once every 1-2 years in Round 3" type guy.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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JSeahawks wrote:
Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.


Didn't they acquire Willie Gault?


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:33 am 
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Not gonna lie.....I thought that we should of given Flynn a look at that point. Glad I was wrong though!

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:36 am 
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SeaTown81 wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
dumbrabbit wrote:
Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.


Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.


Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.


For the record I thought trading him was a necessity, But you also have those people who are going to want to either ignore the supporting cast or are just plain ignorant to the fact it matters. It will likely be alot of those guys who hitched their wagon to Flynn sucks even though they could never explain why and either ignored his performances or were ignorant to them.

It also depends on how you measure success. If it is only in the win loss column then yeah I think Flynn is screwed for next year but much like the premise of this thread, you should be able to see if he is comfortable in the pocket, goes through his progressions, makes accurate throws, stays calm under pressure on and on. Sometimes it takes more than a good QB to bail a team out. Look at the Seahawks from 2008 to 2010. First thing Pete and John did was have a fire sale. If you think Wilson would have looked anything in those offenses like he did last year you are dreaming.

A good supporting cast will make an average QB look much better and vice verse.

I think you will also see Ponder and Papaki both take huge steps back this season in large part to the supporting cast.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
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Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Cartire wrote:
AF_Hawk wrote:
I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.


I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

Eli has 2 superbowls
Brady has 3.

Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.

OHH! :34853_doh: , now I get "IT"
So until Wilson wins a Super Bowl, he won't be PROVEN to have the "IT FACTOR", :th2thumbs: GOTCHA!


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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.


Badda bing badda boom. This is a great explanation. I will throw another one out, and that's all of the same guys who couldn't go on long enough about how worthless Ichiro was to the 2001 Mariners, and how they were seeing stuff that wasn't there, because the stats PROVED he wasn't good. They PROVED IT. Look at his amount of walks and his OBP and his OPS and there is PROOF that Ichiro SUCKED and that the team was headed nowhere.

Last time I checked, that was the last competitive baseball team that took the field as the home squad in Safeco and Ichiro was clearly the difference on that team, but statheads were having their brains explode because their metric said he sucked, and they couldn't deny hard enough that there was no such thing as "it" and "it" doesn't make a team better from top to bottom when you all of a sudden inject "it" into the equation.

We saw it with Ichiro, we saw it with Russ, I'll go so far as to say we saw it with the guy with the "worst stats" on the 90's Sonics in Nate McMillan. Facts showed that the Sonics were a better team when they had both Payton and Mac on the court at the same time, and that's what they did. When Payton was running the point on his own and Mac was on the bench early in Glove's career then he struggled, the team struggled. Then "Glue" started getting extended minutes with "Glove" and the team as a whole became exponentially better and Glove became one of the best players to ever suit up. Interesting to watch statheads blow up when they would go off and say Mac needed to sit down and blahbedy blah blah, but the evidence was in the success that the TEAM was having. Same with Russ. Same with Ichi-balls (thank Buhner for that one), and same with the Sonics rotations in about 95-96-ish. Even Derrick McKey started to play like he was always supposed to. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: RW after week 1 last season
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Not to take any magic from Wilson, but we will never know how are seaon would have ended if we started Flynn.

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