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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
I am with HawksFTW in that I have serious doubts about you actually watching football given the above post.

That's fine, everybody is entitled to their opinions. You know the saying, Opinions are like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Good that you're not offended but I said what I said because the 70's-early 80's Pittsburgh defense was the antithesis of bend/don't break. Like the current NY Giants their scheme is built on pressure from their front 7 what made Pittsburgh stellar is not only did they have a superior front 7 but a secondary as good as the LOB. Pete believes in a shutdown secondary consisting of long rangy CB's combined with LB's with wicked speed and multiple edge rushers built on speed. Very similar to Pittsburgh but with the emphasis on the secondary rather than the front 7. In otherwords Seattle's scheme is about as far from bend/don't break as Kansas is in opposite direction.

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Last edited by MizzouHawkGal on Sat May 11, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Against Atlanta - both offenses scored 28, but the 49er defense was still better than the 'Hawks by 6 points, and keep in mind *both* Justin and Aldon were hurt, and the starters played about 90% of the snaps throughout the year. Clemons was hurt too, but other than Clemons, I don't recall any other significant 'Hawk injuries. Defense clearly is the issue for the 'Hawks, however I don't think you adequately addressed it in the offseason. Again, just my opinion.


Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:53 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Giedi wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
I am with HawksFTW in that I have serious doubts about you actually watching football given the above post.

That's fine, everybody is entitled to their opinions. You know the saying, Opinions are like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Good that you're not offended but I said what I said because the 70's-early 80's Pittsburgh defense was the antithesis of bend/don't break. Like the current NY Giants their scheme is built on pressure from their front 7 what made Pittsburgh stellar is not only did they have a superior front 7 but a secondary as good as the LOB. Pete believes in a shutdown secondary consisting of long rangy CB's combined with LB's with wicked speed and multiple edge rushers built on speed. Very similar to those Pittsburgh but with the emphasis on the secondary rather than the front 7.


Again, bend but don't break defenses are used when you dont' have defensive talent to go toe to toe with an offense between the 20's.

As for the Giants. The Old Giants Parcells defense is a yardage defense. Meaning they will stifle your offense yardage-wise. Carl Banks, Lenard Marshall and Lawrence taylor, to name a few were very disruptive players and disrupted offenses. Those were athletic freaks, like Howie Long, that just by their athletic ability will disrupt an offense. However, the Giants defense philosophically was to try stifle your offense (at least the ones run by Bill Parcells) with solid mistake free team defense. They had big guys in the front and outside guys that could pass rush, and DB's that could cover. It was a stifling defense, never made any mistakes, and never needed to blitz. Same with the Steeler Defense, they had only like four defensive formation calls and nobody could beat them despite knowing exactly which defense was bieng called.

Disruptive defenses like the Raider defenses of old used gap penetration schemes to achieve their ends, which is to get into the backfield and destory blocking schemes or take out the QB. Old raider defenses had the primary purpose of taking away the football from the opposing offense. Whereas Steeler and Giant's defense of old were very solid, physically imposing, and simply stronger than almost all offenses - didn't gap penetrate and simply held their ground and didn't let you move or go anywhere.

Good solid front 7 play is a must in any defense. Be it the Tampa 2, Wide 9, Eagle 5-2, or 46. That goes without saying. No, my main point is that when Pete was with the 49ers they rarely blitzed, and I can see in the games last year and the year before, he still runs a cautious defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:05 pm 
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True he doesn't blitz because he'd rather stop you at the jump like Pittsburgh of old and no that isn't the definition of bend/don't break hence I question your knowledge or more exactly if you know the definition or meaning of the terminology you're throwing around. Because I think you're meaning something else than you think you do.

Pete does the opposite of bend/don't break. He wants to stone you on defense while shortening the game by running not play some game of field position hockey. He wants short fields to build up a big lead and proceed to play keepaway via running. That style demands an aggressive in your face defense not reckless like Arizona or St. Louis for example.

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Last edited by MizzouHawkGal on Sat May 11, 2013 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
You know the saying, Opinions are like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Some worse than others.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:25 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
True he doesn't blitz because he'd rather stop you at the jump like Pittsburgh of old and no that isn't the definition of bend/don't break hence I question your knowledge or more exactly if you know the definition or meaning of the terminology you're throwing around. Because I think you're meaning something else than you think you do.

Pete does the opposite of bend/don't break. He wants to stone you on defense while shortening the game by running not play some game of field position hockey. He wants short fields to build up a big lead and proceed to play keepaway via running. That style demands an aggressive in your face defense not reckless like Arizona or St. Louis for example.

That's my point. He doesn't blitz. LeBeau is what I mean when you say *aggressive* defense. LeBeau's schemes are calculated defensive calls that aren't sit back and wait for the offense to do something and react to it. Pete's offense, (I take it from your post - since I dont' watch a lot of Seattle games) he's a 4-3 guy, not a 3-4 guy? And he doesn't do a lot of movement and shifting on the defensive side? He lines up in the 4-3 and plays it pretty straight and beats you with solid mistake free team defense like the Parcells and Noll defenses of old?


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:27 pm 
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BlueTalon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
You know the saying, Opinions are like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Some worse than others.

Well, KCH is doing the best she can I'm sure. Everybody has their bad days... :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
No, my main point is that when Pete was with the 49ers they rarely blitzed, and I can see in the games last year and the year before, he still runs a cautious defense.

You go ahead and keep thinking that.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
True he doesn't blitz because he'd rather stop you at the jump like Pittsburgh of old and no that isn't the definition of bend/don't break hence I question your knowledge or more exactly if you know the definition or meaning of the terminology you're throwing around. Because I think you're meaning something else than you think you do.

Pete does the opposite of bend/don't break. He wants to stone you on defense while shortening the game by running not play some game of field position hockey. He wants short fields to build up a big lead and proceed to play keepaway via running. That style demands an aggressive in your face defense not reckless like Arizona or St. Louis for example.

That's my point. He doesn't blitz. LeBeau is what I mean when you say *aggressive* defense. LeBeau's schemes are calculated defensive calls that aren't sit back and wait for the offense to do something and react to it. Pete's offense, (I take it from your post - since I dont' watch a lot of Seattle games) he's a 4-3 guy, not a 3-4 guy? And he doesn't do a lot of movement and shifting on the defensive side? He lines up in the 4-3 and plays it pretty straight and beats you with solid mistake free team defense like the Parcells and Noll defenses of old?
I see the problem we're using the terminology differently. Pete uses what's called a 4-3 under with a single high safety as the base but really, it shifts often and presents as 4-3 or 3-4 as the situation dictates. I am not technical so I'm explaining this horribly, but he's by no means is he running his defense conservative or just base as you're defining it.

He blitzes plenty but what he's trying to do is achieve pressure/turnovers by shutting off the run and baiting you to pass long without the constant blitzes It's almost like an aggressive Tampa 2 , tempt you to pass but with press coverage and quick pressure from the edge while collapsing the pocket up the middle hence Jesse Williams and the guy from Tampa via FA.

It's the dink and dunk that kills us because it's quick hitting. Hence the Winfield signing both to stop the up the middle running and the quick slant.

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Last edited by MizzouHawkGal on Sun May 12, 2013 12:44 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Against Atlanta - both offenses scored 28, but the 49er defense was still better than the 'Hawks by 6 points, and keep in mind *both* Justin and Aldon were hurt, and the starters played about 90% of the snaps throughout the year. Clemons was hurt too, but other than Clemons, I don't recall any other significant 'Hawk injuries. Defense clearly is the issue for the 'Hawks, however I don't think you adequately addressed it in the offseason. Again, just my opinion.


Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.


lol I didn't say WE DESERVED. I said we did pretty good minus our best outside and interior pass rushers, starting a rookie and an unknown DE and expecting a pass rush out of necessity, and playing a very competitive early game while allowing 6 points more then your vaunted SF defense did in a late game. Were the Vikings and the Rams such powerhouses that you couldn't overcome the 1 PM Eastern 2.5% (maybe) 2 play a game (maybe) effect of the time zone difference? Why does Goodell prevent East Coast teams from coming west more than two times a season for 2.5% with no thought to West Coast teams going East? I know which way I'd rather travel. Been there and done it.

As for the Ravens, Ray Lewis was barely a difference maker on the field, before or after his absence. Nor did their defense depth step it up, their offense carried them (barely, thank the Steeler collapse) to the playoffs. Unless you are addicted to football, casual fans outside of Baltimore never even heard of Kruger and Ellerbe until after Lewis had returned. His impact wasn't as a best player, it was pure motivation.

I don't even consider the Giants to have a great defense, they regularly get shellacked, yet know how to play on the road, or in the post season. Coughlin does a fine job with those guys. They go to another team, and most of them suck.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
BlueTalon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
You know the saying, Opinions are any like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Some worse than others.

Well, KCH is doing the best she can I'm sure. Everybody has their bad days... :mrgreen:

Nevermind.

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Last edited by MizzouHawkGal on Sat May 11, 2013 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Giedi wrote:
BlueTalon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
You know the saying, Opinions are like arm pitts. Everybody has them, and they all stink.

Some worse than others.

Well, KCH is doing the best she can I'm sure. Everybody has their bad days... :mrgreen:

Nice. You won't chase me off that easily.:)

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Giedi wrote:

Again, bend but don't break defenses are used when you dont' have defensive talent to go toe to toe with an offense between the 20's.

As for the Giants. The Old Giants Parcells defense is a yardage defense. Meaning they will stifle your offense yardage-wise. Carl Banks, Lenard Marshall and Lawrence taylor, to name a few were very disruptive players and disrupted offenses. Those were athletic freaks, like Howie Long, that just by their athletic ability will disrupt an offense. However, the Giants defense philosophically was to try stifle your offense (at least the ones run by Bill Parcells) with solid mistake free team defense. They had big guys in the front and outside guys that could pass rush, and DB's that could cover. It was a stifling defense, never made any mistakes, and never needed to blitz. Same with the Steeler Defense, they had only like four defensive formation calls and nobody could beat them despite knowing exactly which defense was bieng called.

Disruptive defenses like the Raider defenses of old used gap penetration schemes to achieve their ends, which is to get into the backfield and destory blocking schemes or take out the QB. Old raider defenses had the primary purpose of taking away the football from the opposing offense. Whereas Steeler and Giant's defense of old were very solid, physically imposing, and simply stronger than almost all offenses - didn't gap penetrate and simply held their ground and didn't let you move or go anywhere.

Good solid front 7 play is a must in any defense. Be it the Tampa 2, Wide 9, Eagle 5-2, or 46. That goes without saying. No, my main point is that when Pete was with the 49ers they rarely blitzed, and I can see in the games last year and the year before, he still runs a cautious defense.


How is the 1st in scoring Defense, and 4th in yards Defense a "bend but don't break". I don't think you actually paid much attention to the Seahawks D last year if that is truly what you think. The D did have issues with the pass rush and especially later in the year, the run defense, but they were a top D by basically every available metric. The Seahawks team overall last year was 1st in DVOA and is not a fluke team. Seattle has some of the best defensive talent in the league and your post reads like wishful thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:25 am 
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Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Against Atlanta - both offenses scored 28, but the 49er defense was still better than the 'Hawks by 6 points, and keep in mind *both* Justin and Aldon were hurt, and the starters played about 90% of the snaps throughout the year. Clemons was hurt too, but other than Clemons, I don't recall any other significant 'Hawk injuries. Defense clearly is the issue for the 'Hawks, however I don't think you adequately addressed it in the offseason. Again, just my opinion.


Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

You should also mention the second week of travel. The Niners like to use the excuse at the Clink that they were tired from just traveling to NE and that is why they were demolished in Seattle yet it apparently should be a non factor for Seattle to travel back to back road games in the playoffs including the second of those at 10am. Really the Niners have proven beyond any doubt that in the same scenario we went through, Atlanta would have killed them.

You also left out that Lynch was playing on a sprained ankle and his fumble is as big a factor as anything in that loss. Do you think Kaep could have put his team on his back the way Wilson did if Gore was playing injured? It is very clear that Gore is the catalyst in that offense (and he turns 30 this week) and without Gore that offense takes a huge hit. When things weren't going well for the Niners it was their running game they turned to not their passing game.


Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Also relying on an off the street kicker turned out to be one of the biggest problems. Akers accuarcy sucked last season but his distance and trajectory were still fine. On the final defensive stand with 31 seconds remaining our kicker sent the ball low and short not giving our ST's time to get in position to make a stop. The result was Atlanta starting that drive around the 40 yard line and with 28 seconds only needing to go around 25 yards to get into field goal range. If Hauschka is making that kick they are likely starting around the twenty.

Keep in mind that was just the final kickoff. He had three other poor kickoffs as well and all effected field position.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:38 am 
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Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Against Atlanta - both offenses scored 28, but the 49er defense was still better than the 'Hawks by 6 points, and keep in mind *both* Justin and Aldon were hurt, and the starters played about 90% of the snaps throughout the year. Clemons was hurt too, but other than Clemons, I don't recall any other significant 'Hawk injuries. Defense clearly is the issue for the 'Hawks, however I don't think you adequately addressed it in the offseason. Again, just my opinion.


Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.



So then your saying your loss at the clink was only about a 1.5% variable? Sounds about right to me. If everything was in perfect alignment for the Niners that night we probably only win by 25.

Dude your homer double standards are painful to read. We didn't do enough on defense but your draft will save you.

Come on man at least read your own write ups.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:47 am 
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RichNhansom wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:

Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.



So then your saying your loss at the clink was only about a 1.5% variable? Sounds about right to me. If everything was in perfect alignment for the Niners that night we probably only win by 25.

Dude your homer double standards are painful to read. We didn't do enough on defense but your draft will save you.

Come on man at least read your own write ups.


LOL.

If everything is in perfect alignment for the 49ers they still lose by 25 points?

Wow. Who's the homer again?

Come on...are you seriously gonna tell me that you think the 'hawks are consistently 25 point better than SF?


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:54 am 
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How is that a homer response? I was simply using your guys math formula of 2.5%. If that is remotely accurate then I under estimated. Either that or your guy is as clueless as you.

If we didn't deserve to make the playoffs due to that 2.5% then you guys definitely didn't deserve to be in the playoffs when you factor in your 10am road record that you could only beat the Jets and your back to back road games where you were demoralized by Seattle.

How do you ignore that?

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:29 am 
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I dont see why it is hard for people to understand why the 49ers are favs. They almost won the Super Bowl last year and probably should have because that was pass interference. They pretty much return everyone besides Goldson and their left/right guard I think? Also they upgraded in a couple spots and had a lot of draft picks to get a few more pieces. On paper they should be the favorites.

I do think we will win it this year though, I think these next 2 years are ours to lose. I am not just saying that as a homer either, I am usually the guy who is very critical of Seattle teams. I just feel like we have an elite quarterback with an elite rushing game and an elite defense now with Percy Harvin thrown in to make things even more monstrous.

It will be tough though, the 49ers will be a force again and I have a feeling the Rams might even make the other Wild Card spot making 3 NFC West teams in the playoffs. We need to go 5-1 in division and I think we will grab the #1 NFC seed and run through the playoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:39 am 
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Well if how you finished last year matters then the Ravens should be #1 but it's not based on last year alone it is based on last years performance and the upgrades and downgrades since that time.

Based on that the Niners are replacing an all pro safety with a rookie. Lost both starting and back up NT's and their H-back who is also their back up TE. Their receiving core consists of two guys that have caught passes from Kaepernick and their star running back turns 30 this week and their best defender is returning from injury and turns 34 in September. Add all that to a coach who doesn't play his back ups or rooks and before you assume the Niners only drafted allpro's remember Jenkins was their #1 pick last year and didn't have a single catch on the season despite lacking competition to keep him off the field. Many liked the Jenkins pick at the time also. Will this years class be better than last? Or will we see a repeat of last years draft?

In their three 10am starts the only team they could beat was the Jets and in the second week of travel they were demoralized in Seattle.

Don't buy the excuses that everyone that left was the worst player in the NFL. That is beyond ridiculous and even if they were as bad as the Niner fans want you to believe it is a direct reflection on their lack of depth and inability to plug holes where needed. I don't see any reason for that to have changed.

Niners fans want you to believe that getting Boldin was a better deal than getting Harvin. It's not. Harvin would be the best receiver on that team with everything he brings to the field. Crabtree was never in the topic of MVP last year for a season.

They want you to believe that Bennett and Avril are questionable moves that may or may not pan out but Caradine and Reid will instantly upgrade their team.

Don't buy all the bull. We are returning every position except 3 tech and DE and those are being replaced with guys that are statistically better plus Clemons will likely return at some point and be 100% by the playoffs. . Our draft was boring for a reason. We had zero holes going into the draft. We didn't desperately need to hit on a safety or NT and we don't desperately need to find quality receivers plus everyone but Harvin already has chemistry with Wilson.

It's really not a stretch to see why most have Seattle as the best team in football right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:49 pm 
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The pundits look at the paper and see Glenn Dorsey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Eric Reid, Anquan Boldin, Tavon Austin and perhaps even Craig Dahl as great improvement on the defense while they lost Goldson, Sopoaga and Francois. They don't look at the fact that lack of continuity on the defense is going to effect the Niners on defense early. Look for a lot of breakdowns in coverage to happen the first half of the season for the Niners. The niners also don't have a lot of depth. They're one injury away in the secondary and on the defensive line from having an average to below average squad in both of those respected catgories.

Seattle already boasts one of the best secondaries in the league... if not the best. Lane can step in at either corner position and hold the position down. We signed Winfield to play nickel and let Trufant go, which is a push. We resigned Jeron Johnson, who is one of the most underrated safeties in the league, simply because he's stuck behind Thomas and Chancellor, two of the best safeties in the league. We added Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett, two top notch DEs to a defensive line that still has Mebane and Bryant with Irvin as an up and comer at DE or LB and two highly touted DTs competing for playing time. We lost Leroy Hill, but we've been grooming 3 linebackers in Toomer, Smith and Morgan behind him with great physical tools the last 2 years. Wagner and Wright should only get better and they're already really good to begin with. Let's not forget about our Special Teams Ace Heath Farwell either.

Our offensive lines are a push and both should perform extremely well this year due to their experience and continuity. Neither team lost any major players and both have quality depth. Receivers are a push and Backs are a push. Quarterbacks are a push. Both are still young relatively inexperienced quarterbacks with great playmaking ability. Problem is... San Fran is playing against Seattle in Seattle their second game of the year where Kaepernick had problems last year and where all the breakdowns in coverage will occur due to the lack of continuity on the Niners defense. San Fran will get stomped on in Seattle after Seattle comes back from Carolina. Then Seattle plays in San Fran 2 weeks after a bye week with a home game against New Orleans in between. By this time, San Fran will be feeling the effects of a key injury or two on defense and Seattle will put the nail in the coffin by sweeping San Fran due to San Fran's faltering defense that was plagued with lack of continuity at the beginning of the season and effected by lack of depth to injuries later in the season. Timing of the schedule mixed with lack of depth on the Niners defense is going to cost the Niners the division title and possibly a playoff spot this year. They appear to be better on paper when you compare their starting lineup to other starting lineups, but they're depth and lack of continuity is going to be their achilles heel.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:03 pm 
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bend but don't break is just a rubbish term used to describe a defense that appears to allow a lot of yards but not give up many points, its not a "style of defense".

If it was, the Pete Carroll scheme would be the very definition of what bend but don't break really means - in that the entire defense is try to stop every play and give up the occasional big play as a result, but to stop the big play ever happening and allowing teams to take lots of short yardage plays


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:34 pm 
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themunn wrote:
bend but don't break is just a rubbish term used to describe a defense that appears to allow a lot of yards but not give up many points, its not a "style of defense".

If it was, the Pete Carroll scheme would be the very definition of what bend but don't break really means - in that the entire defense is try to stop every play and give up the occasional big play as a result, but to stop the big play ever happening and allowing teams to take lots of short yardage plays

Bendability is legit IMO... And Seattle led the league last year. It's a very telling statistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:04 am 
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I did not roll thru the whole thread here, so forgive me if this is just reiterating others' opinions.

The past has nothing to do with how any individual game in 2013 will unfold...however our performance last season as a whole is definitely an indication of how the 2013 season may be expected to unfold. That being said...the exact same sentiment exists for the Niners.

I fully do not expect to beat down the Niners this year like we did last year. At this point, I'd be shocked if we swept them, and surprised if we beat them by 10 at home. We are a great team, but so are they. I'm not surprised at all that they are getting the nod over us on a national scale- media, fan, or otherwise. They have recent NFC Championship experience- they are a great team. However...if there is a team that I would predict to be the Niners' replacement in the Superbowl, it would be the Hawks.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:20 am 
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60niners wrote:
themunn wrote:
bend but don't break is just a rubbish term used to describe a defense that appears to allow a lot of yards but not give up many points, its not a "style of defense".

If it was, the Pete Carroll scheme would be the very definition of what bend but don't break really means - in that the entire defense is try to stop every play and give up the occasional big play as a result, but to stop the big play ever happening and allowing teams to take lots of short yardage plays

Bendability is legit IMO... And Seattle led the league last year. It's a very telling statistic.


The Bend-Don't Break philosophy applies to more aspects of the game than the end result. "Bend-Don't Break" isn't defined by "not giving up the big play" or else it would just be a "Prevent" defense. "The Bend-Don't Break" philosophy applies to the way a player plays the game on every down. It requires player's playing disciplined and not taking themselves out of a play.

When a player lunges for tackles, misses and takes themselves out of the play; they're not adhering to the "Bend-Don't Break" philosophy. When a player takes a gamble on cutting off a pass and gets beat by the double-move, they're not adhering to the "Bend-Don't Break" philosophy. When a player overshoots the backfield and can't recover or blows containment on the backside and takes themselves out of the play, they're not adhering to the "Bend-Don't Break" philosophy. When a player doesn't jam a receiver at the LOS and let's the receiver blow by unscathed, they're not adhering to the "Bend - Don't Break" philosophy.

The "Bend - Don't Break" philosophy doesn't revolve around not giving up the big play downfield or not giving up the TD. It revolves around players Bending their assignments to make plays, but not breaking assignment and letting opponents make bigger plays than they should've due to undisciplined play. To me... That's the most important dynamic to installing a successful "Bend - Don't Break' philosophy. The sense of the "Bend -Don't Break" philosophy that says "It's okay to let a team have lots of yards, as long as they don't score" is a bad philiosophy. It allows opponents to control the clock and control the pace of the game. The premise of "Bend - Don't Break" should be "It's okay to overplay an assignment a little bit and lose a little ground to the opponent in order to stay in the play or make a play, but it's not okay to blow an assignment or take yourself out of the play."


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:53 am 
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RichNhansom wrote:
Well if how you finished last year matters then the Ravens should be #1 but it's not based on last year alone it is based on last years performance and the upgrades and downgrades since that time.

Based on that the Niners are replacing an all pro safety with a rookie. Lost both starting and back up NT's and their H-back who is also their back up TE. Their receiving core consists of two guys that have caught passes from Kaepernick and their star running back turns 30 this week and their best defender is returning from injury and turns 34 in September. Add all that to a coach who doesn't play his back ups or rooks and before you assume the Niners only drafted allpro's remember Jenkins was their #1 pick last year and didn't have a single catch on the season despite lacking competition to keep him off the field. Many liked the Jenkins pick at the time also. Will this years class be better than last? Or will we see a repeat of last years draft?

In their three 10am starts the only team they could beat was the Jets and in the second week of travel they were demoralized in Seattle.

Don't buy the excuses that everyone that left was the worst player in the NFL. That is beyond ridiculous and even if they were as bad as the Niner fans want you to believe it is a direct reflection on their lack of depth and inability to plug holes where needed. I don't see any reason for that to have changed.

Niners fans want you to believe that getting Boldin was a better deal than getting Harvin. It's not. Harvin would be the best receiver on that team with everything he brings to the field. Crabtree was never in the topic of MVP last year for a season.

They want you to believe that Bennett and Avril are questionable moves that may or may not pan out but Caradine and Reid will instantly upgrade their team.

Don't buy all the bull. We are returning every position except 3 tech and DE and those are being replaced with guys that are statistically better plus Clemons will likely return at some point and be 100% by the playoffs. . Our draft was boring for a reason. We had zero holes going into the draft. We didn't desperately need to hit on a safety or NT and we don't desperately need to find quality receivers plus everyone but Harvin already has chemistry with Wilson.

It's really not a stretch to see why most have Seattle as the best team in football right now.


Wow.

Where to start...

1) While I think Reid might be better long term I agree that Goldson will be a loss. I've never been Goldsons biggest fan, but he was a very good safety. He got WAY, WAY overpaid in Tampa tho. He was nowhere near as good a safety as Earl Thomas. BTW...I also think Whitner is way overrated and he's still on the roster.

2) Those starting and backup DT? Yeah....the 49ers were looking to UPGRADE at those positions because they played poorly...RJF in particular. Why did the Niner D fall apart when Justin Smith went out? It fell apart because his replacement (RJF) got mauled. Just watch Lynch's first TD in Seattle and see what happens to RJF on the play. Sopoaga was the 82nd rated DT in the league last year according to PFF. The Niners could have resigned both of those guys. They chose not to.

3) Losing Delanie Walker is one of the biggest loses to me. The guy did drop a ton of passes and is drove me crazy, but I really liked Delanie. That was the guy I really didn't want to see go. We'll just have to see if the combo of McDonald and Boldin will be able to fill that roll.

4) Doesn't play his backups or rookies...what the hell are you talking about? Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati both started as rookies. So did Bruce Miller. Aldon didn't start, but played enough to get 14 sacks. Kendall Hunter got significant playing time. So did Chris Culliver. It's funny how ONE YEAR forms everyones opinions. Jenkins was never going to start. Neither was James. Those were two of the deepest positions on the team before injuries depleted them. They didn't use the packups in the front 7 last year because as I said before, they SUCKED. RJF blew. Parys Haralson was hurt in Preseason. They didn't play their backups because they didn't have a ton of depth and they had a rash of injuries at OLB. Thats' why they focused on the front 7 in the draft. Those guys will play. Count on it. We'll see if they are better than their predecessors.

5) Gore and Justin getting old? Justified comment....but thats probably why they have drafted a RB in every draft for the past 4 years (Anthony Dixon, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, and Marcus Lattimore). Hunter and James really look like keepers. Dixon not so much and we'll just have to see on Lattimore. Drafting Tank Carradine is about depth behind Justin AND an attempt to find his eventual replacement. This is a common theme tho among Seahawks fans..."Niners are getting old, we are young...we'll dominate and Niners will fade". Its a nice little story, but it's pretty much wishful thinking. Even after trading for Boldin and McCoy, the Niners STILL had 13 picks and drafted 11 players. The 49ers have ALREADY drafted possible eventual replacements for a number of their aging players (Hunter, James, Lattimore for Gore; Jenkins, Patton for Moss/Boldin; Kilgore for Goodwin, Looney for Leonard Davis, Carradine for Justin Smith). They started this process 2 years ago. Oh, BTW....they ALREADY have 10 picks next year which will probably include a 1, 2 2's and 3 3's or a 1, a 2 and FOUR 3's depending on if KC can get to 8-8 this year. Its wishful thinking to think that the Niners are going to fade away.

6) It's really funny to me how everyone looks at the Jenkins pick and just thinks "hey...look at THAT pick!! These guys suck at drafting". First off, Jenkins has been around 1 year. Lets see what he does THIS year. You also just skipped over the OTHER players the Niner drafted these past few years...Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, NaVorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller and LaMichael James. I'm leaving out the guys who look promising and just haven't gotten their shot yet. Of course there is no guarantee any of the rooks will be an all-star (tho I keep hearing on this site that Christine Michael will be a superstar), using Jenkins as the example is really just cherry picking.

7) The comment about the players leaving weren't as bad as we are saying...um, yes they were. They DID have a lack of depth. Alot of that was due to injury. On the D-Line they lost Justin for a whiloe, they lost Will Tukuafu and Demarcus Dobbs earlier in the year. RJF just sucked HARD last year. Sopoaga was a decent player, but it appears father time has caught up with him. AT OLB, the niners were CRUSHED by injury losing Parys Haralson, Darius Fleming and Cameron Johnson tom injury. They ended up signing Clark Haggins...who sucked. They now have Haralson back and drafted Lemonier. If you think the Seahawks aren't going to have to use draft picks for depth, you are kidding yourself.

8) Harvin/Boldin: Harvin is the better player right now. No argument from me. However, Boldin doesn't NEED to be anything more than a #2 WR and didn't cost them a 1 , a 7, and a 3 next year. The Crabtree comment makes me laugh. Who said anything about MVP? What is worth noting tho is that Crab had 3 career 100 yard games before Kaep took over. In the 10 games Kaep did start, Crab had 880 yards and 8 TDs. Crab wasn't the issue. The QB was the issue. I'll take Crab over Harvin thank you. You'll disagree of course, but I'd rather have Crab.

9) Avril/Bennett: I am skeptical of these 2, but I do think they provide very, very good depth. Losing Clemons was a killer for you guys last year just as losing Justin was to us. I'm simply not a big fan of those players, but they certainly represent an upgrade to overall depth on that line.

10) The comment about your "boring" draft makes me laugh. You guys had a boring draft because you had few holes and were drafting for the furure and for depth while the 49ers draft of 2012 was just a failure. Actually, the Niners were doing last year exactly what Seattle did THIS year. They drafted for depth and the future and traded several of their picks for picks THIS year (which is why they at one point had 15 picks) and selected injured players for value(just like they did again this year).





Look...I got no prob when people refer to Seattle as a very, very talented team. They are. They are stacked all over the roster. Don't start ripping apart the 49ers roster tho because it's pretty clear you don't understand it. I'm not going to rip on Seattles moves because I clearly don't know them as well as you guys do....and I can admit that. I suggest you do the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:57 am 
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Marvin49 wrote:
RichNhansom wrote:
Well if how you finished last year matters then the Ravens should be #1 but it's not based on last year alone it is based on last years performance and the upgrades and downgrades since that time.

Based on that the Niners are replacing an all pro safety with a rookie. Lost both starting and back up NT's and their H-back who is also their back up TE. Their receiving core consists of two guys that have caught passes from Kaepernick and their star running back turns 30 this week and their best defender is returning from injury and turns 34 in September. Add all that to a coach who doesn't play his back ups or rooks and before you assume the Niners only drafted allpro's remember Jenkins was their #1 pick last year and didn't have a single catch on the season despite lacking competition to keep him off the field. Many liked the Jenkins pick at the time also. Will this years class be better than last? Or will we see a repeat of last years draft?

In their three 10am starts the only team they could beat was the Jets and in the second week of travel they were demoralized in Seattle.

Don't buy the excuses that everyone that left was the worst player in the NFL. That is beyond ridiculous and even if they were as bad as the Niner fans want you to believe it is a direct reflection on their lack of depth and inability to plug holes where needed. I don't see any reason for that to have changed.

Niners fans want you to believe that getting Boldin was a better deal than getting Harvin. It's not. Harvin would be the best receiver on that team with everything he brings to the field. Crabtree was never in the topic of MVP last year for a season.

They want you to believe that Bennett and Avril are questionable moves that may or may not pan out but Caradine and Reid will instantly upgrade their team.

Don't buy all the bull. We are returning every position except 3 tech and DE and those are being replaced with guys that are statistically better plus Clemons will likely return at some point and be 100% by the playoffs. . Our draft was boring for a reason. We had zero holes going into the draft. We didn't desperately need to hit on a safety or NT and we don't desperately need to find quality receivers plus everyone but Harvin already has chemistry with Wilson.

It's really not a stretch to see why most have Seattle as the best team in football right now.


Wow.

Where to start...

1) While I think Reid might be better long term I agree that Goldson will be a loss. I've never been Goldsons biggest fan, but he was a very good safety. He got WAY, WAY overpaid in Tampa tho. He was nowhere near as good a safety as Earl Thomas. BTW...I also think Whitner is way overrated and he's still on the roster.

2) Those starting and backup DT? Yeah....the 49ers were looking to UPGRADE at those positions because they played poorly...RJF in particular. Why did the Niner D fall apart when Justin Smith went out? It fell apart because his replacement (RJF) got mauled. Just watch Lynch's first TD in Seattle and see what happens to RJF on the play. Sopoaga was the 82nd rated DT in the league last year according to PFF. The Niners could have resigned both of those guys. They chose not to.

3) Losing Delanie Walker is one of the biggest loses to me. The guy did drop a ton of passes and is drove me crazy, but I really liked Delanie. That was the guy I really didn't want to see go. We'll just have to see if the combo of McDonald and Boldin will be able to fill that roll.

4) Doesn't play his backups or rookies...what the hell are you talking about? Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati both started as rookies. So did Bruce Miller. Aldon didn't start, but played enough to get 14 sacks. Kendall Hunter got significant playing time. So did Chris Culliver. It's funny how ONE YEAR forms everyones opinions. Jenkins was never going to start. Neither was James. Those were two of the deepest positions on the team before injuries depleted them. They didn't use the packups in the front 7 last year because as I said before, they SUCKED. RJF blew. Parys Haralson was hurt in Preseason. They didn't play their backups because they didn't have a ton of depth and they had a rash of injuries at OLB. Thats' why they focused on the front 7 in the draft. Those guys will play. Count on it. We'll see if they are better than their predecessors.

5) Gore and Justin getting old? Justified comment....but thats probably why they have drafted a RB in every draft for the past 4 years (Anthony Dixon, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, and Marcus Lattimore). Hunter and James really look like keepers. Dixon not so much and we'll just have to see on Lattimore. Drafting Tank Carradine is about depth behind Justin AND an attempt to find his eventual replacement. This is a common theme tho among Seahawks fans..."Niners are getting old, we are young...we'll dominate and Niners will fade". Its a nice little story, but it's pretty much wishful thinking. Even after trading for Boldin and McCoy, the Niners STILL had 13 picks and drafted 11 players. The 49ers have ALREADY drafted possible eventual replacements for a number of their aging players (Hunter, James, Lattimore for Gore; Jenkins, Patton for Moss/Boldin; Kilgore for Goodwin, Looney for Leonard Davis, Carradine for Justin Smith). They started this process 2 years ago. Oh, BTW....they ALREADY have 10 picks next year which will probably include a 1, 2 2's and 3 3's or a 1, a 2 and FOUR 3's depending on if KC can get to 8-8 this year. Its wishful thinking to think that the Niners are going to fade away.

6) It's really funny to me how everyone looks at the Jenkins pick and just thinks "hey...look at THAT pick!! These guys suck at drafting". First off, Jenkins has been around 1 year. Lets see what he does THIS year. You also just skipped over the OTHER players the Niner drafted these past few years...Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, NaVorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller and LaMichael James. I'm leaving out the guys who look promising and just haven't gotten their shot yet. Of course there is no guarantee any of the rooks will be an all-star (tho I keep hearing on this site that Christine Michael will be a superstar), using Jenkins as the example is really just cherry picking.

7) The comment about the players leaving weren't as bad as we are saying...um, yes they were. They DID have a lack of depth. Alot of that was due to injury. On the D-Line they lost Justin for a whiloe, they lost Will Tukuafu and Demarcus Dobbs earlier in the year. RJF just sucked HARD last year. Sopoaga was a decent player, but it appears father time has caught up with him. AT OLB, the niners were CRUSHED by injury losing Parys Haralson, Darius Fleming and Cameron Johnson tom injury. They ended up signing Clark Haggins...who sucked. They now have Haralson back and drafted Lemonier. If you think the Seahawks aren't going to have to use draft picks for depth, you are kidding yourself.

8) Harvin/Boldin: Harvin is the better player right now. No argument from me. However, Boldin doesn't NEED to be anything more than a #2 WR and didn't cost them a 1 , a 7, and a 3 next year. The Crabtree comment makes me laugh. Who said anything about MVP? What is worth noting tho is that Crab had 3 career 100 yard games before Kaep took over. In the 10 games Kaep did start, Crab had 880 yards and 8 TDs. Crab wasn't the issue. The QB was the issue. I'll take Crab over Harvin thank you. You'll disagree of course, but I'd rather have Crab.

9) Avril/Bennett: I am skeptical of these 2, but I do think they provide very, very good depth. Losing Clemons was a killer for you guys last year just as losing Justin was to us. I'm simply not a big fan of those players, but they certainly represent an upgrade to overall depth on that line.

10) The comment about your "boring" draft makes me laugh. You guys had a boring draft because you had few holes and were drafting for the furure and for depth while the 49ers draft of 2012 was just a failure. Actually, the Niners were doing last year exactly what Seattle did THIS year. They drafted for depth and the future and traded several of their picks for picks THIS year (which is why they at one point had 15 picks) and selected injured players for value(just like they did again this year).





Look...I got no prob when people refer to Seattle as a very, very talented team. They are. They are stacked all over the roster. Don't start ripping apart the 49ers roster tho because it's pretty clear you don't understand it. I'm not going to rip on Seattles moves because I clearly don't know them as well as you guys do....and I can admit that. I suggest you do the same.

I'm not saying you were one of them (even though you may have been I honestly can't remember). But, I had an argument on here a year or two ago with a whole group of 49ers posters on which defensive backfield was better. Each and every Niner fan on here made the argument that Whitner and Goldson were better than Thomas and Chancellor (which was just as absurd back then as is it now). It is just funny to me that every Niner fan on this board during that time was so on the Goldson bandwagon and now that he is gone their tune has completely changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 am 
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pcbball12 wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:
RichNhansom wrote:
Well if how you finished last year matters then the Ravens should be #1 but it's not based on last year alone it is based on last years performance and the upgrades and downgrades since that time.

Based on that the Niners are replacing an all pro safety with a rookie. Lost both starting and back up NT's and their H-back who is also their back up TE. Their receiving core consists of two guys that have caught passes from Kaepernick and their star running back turns 30 this week and their best defender is returning from injury and turns 34 in September. Add all that to a coach who doesn't play his back ups or rooks and before you assume the Niners only drafted allpro's remember Jenkins was their #1 pick last year and didn't have a single catch on the season despite lacking competition to keep him off the field. Many liked the Jenkins pick at the time also. Will this years class be better than last? Or will we see a repeat of last years draft?

In their three 10am starts the only team they could beat was the Jets and in the second week of travel they were demoralized in Seattle.

Don't buy the excuses that everyone that left was the worst player in the NFL. That is beyond ridiculous and even if they were as bad as the Niner fans want you to believe it is a direct reflection on their lack of depth and inability to plug holes where needed. I don't see any reason for that to have changed.

Niners fans want you to believe that getting Boldin was a better deal than getting Harvin. It's not. Harvin would be the best receiver on that team with everything he brings to the field. Crabtree was never in the topic of MVP last year for a season.

They want you to believe that Bennett and Avril are questionable moves that may or may not pan out but Caradine and Reid will instantly upgrade their team.

Don't buy all the bull. We are returning every position except 3 tech and DE and those are being replaced with guys that are statistically better plus Clemons will likely return at some point and be 100% by the playoffs. . Our draft was boring for a reason. We had zero holes going into the draft. We didn't desperately need to hit on a safety or NT and we don't desperately need to find quality receivers plus everyone but Harvin already has chemistry with Wilson.

It's really not a stretch to see why most have Seattle as the best team in football right now.


Wow.

Where to start...

1) While I think Reid might be better long term I agree that Goldson will be a loss. I've never been Goldsons biggest fan, but he was a very good safety. He got WAY, WAY overpaid in Tampa tho. He was nowhere near as good a safety as Earl Thomas. BTW...I also think Whitner is way overrated and he's still on the roster.

2) Those starting and backup DT? Yeah....the 49ers were looking to UPGRADE at those positions because they played poorly...RJF in particular. Why did the Niner D fall apart when Justin Smith went out? It fell apart because his replacement (RJF) got mauled. Just watch Lynch's first TD in Seattle and see what happens to RJF on the play. Sopoaga was the 82nd rated DT in the league last year according to PFF. The Niners could have resigned both of those guys. They chose not to.

3) Losing Delanie Walker is one of the biggest loses to me. The guy did drop a ton of passes and is drove me crazy, but I really liked Delanie. That was the guy I really didn't want to see go. We'll just have to see if the combo of McDonald and Boldin will be able to fill that roll.

4) Doesn't play his backups or rookies...what the hell are you talking about? Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati both started as rookies. So did Bruce Miller. Aldon didn't start, but played enough to get 14 sacks. Kendall Hunter got significant playing time. So did Chris Culliver. It's funny how ONE YEAR forms everyones opinions. Jenkins was never going to start. Neither was James. Those were two of the deepest positions on the team before injuries depleted them. They didn't use the packups in the front 7 last year because as I said before, they SUCKED. RJF blew. Parys Haralson was hurt in Preseason. They didn't play their backups because they didn't have a ton of depth and they had a rash of injuries at OLB. Thats' why they focused on the front 7 in the draft. Those guys will play. Count on it. We'll see if they are better than their predecessors.

5) Gore and Justin getting old? Justified comment....but thats probably why they have drafted a RB in every draft for the past 4 years (Anthony Dixon, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, and Marcus Lattimore). Hunter and James really look like keepers. Dixon not so much and we'll just have to see on Lattimore. Drafting Tank Carradine is about depth behind Justin AND an attempt to find his eventual replacement. This is a common theme tho among Seahawks fans..."Niners are getting old, we are young...we'll dominate and Niners will fade". Its a nice little story, but it's pretty much wishful thinking. Even after trading for Boldin and McCoy, the Niners STILL had 13 picks and drafted 11 players. The 49ers have ALREADY drafted possible eventual replacements for a number of their aging players (Hunter, James, Lattimore for Gore; Jenkins, Patton for Moss/Boldin; Kilgore for Goodwin, Looney for Leonard Davis, Carradine for Justin Smith). They started this process 2 years ago. Oh, BTW....they ALREADY have 10 picks next year which will probably include a 1, 2 2's and 3 3's or a 1, a 2 and FOUR 3's depending on if KC can get to 8-8 this year. Its wishful thinking to think that the Niners are going to fade away.

6) It's really funny to me how everyone looks at the Jenkins pick and just thinks "hey...look at THAT pick!! These guys suck at drafting". First off, Jenkins has been around 1 year. Lets see what he does THIS year. You also just skipped over the OTHER players the Niner drafted these past few years...Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, NaVorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller and LaMichael James. I'm leaving out the guys who look promising and just haven't gotten their shot yet. Of course there is no guarantee any of the rooks will be an all-star (tho I keep hearing on this site that Christine Michael will be a superstar), using Jenkins as the example is really just cherry picking.

7) The comment about the players leaving weren't as bad as we are saying...um, yes they were. They DID have a lack of depth. Alot of that was due to injury. On the D-Line they lost Justin for a whiloe, they lost Will Tukuafu and Demarcus Dobbs earlier in the year. RJF just sucked HARD last year. Sopoaga was a decent player, but it appears father time has caught up with him. AT OLB, the niners were CRUSHED by injury losing Parys Haralson, Darius Fleming and Cameron Johnson tom injury. They ended up signing Clark Haggins...who sucked. They now have Haralson back and drafted Lemonier. If you think the Seahawks aren't going to have to use draft picks for depth, you are kidding yourself.

8) Harvin/Boldin: Harvin is the better player right now. No argument from me. However, Boldin doesn't NEED to be anything more than a #2 WR and didn't cost them a 1 , a 7, and a 3 next year. The Crabtree comment makes me laugh. Who said anything about MVP? What is worth noting tho is that Crab had 3 career 100 yard games before Kaep took over. In the 10 games Kaep did start, Crab had 880 yards and 8 TDs. Crab wasn't the issue. The QB was the issue. I'll take Crab over Harvin thank you. You'll disagree of course, but I'd rather have Crab.

9) Avril/Bennett: I am skeptical of these 2, but I do think they provide very, very good depth. Losing Clemons was a killer for you guys last year just as losing Justin was to us. I'm simply not a big fan of those players, but they certainly represent an upgrade to overall depth on that line.

10) The comment about your "boring" draft makes me laugh. You guys had a boring draft because you had few holes and were drafting for the furure and for depth while the 49ers draft of 2012 was just a failure. Actually, the Niners were doing last year exactly what Seattle did THIS year. They drafted for depth and the future and traded several of their picks for picks THIS year (which is why they at one point had 15 picks) and selected injured players for value(just like they did again this year).





Look...I got no prob when people refer to Seattle as a very, very talented team. They are. They are stacked all over the roster. Don't start ripping apart the 49ers roster tho because it's pretty clear you don't understand it. I'm not going to rip on Seattles moves because I clearly don't know them as well as you guys do....and I can admit that. I suggest you do the same.

I'm not saying you were one of them (even though you may have been I honestly can't remember). But, I had an argument on here a year or two ago with a whole group of 49ers posters on which defensive backfield was better. Each and every Niner fan on here made the argument that Whitner and Goldson were better than Thomas and Chancellor (which was just as absurd back then as is it now). It is just funny to me that every Niner fan on this board during that time was so on the Goldson bandwagon and now that he is gone their tune has completely changed.


To be fair, opinions of Goldson within the 49er fanbase vary wildly. Some just see him deliver those huge hits and love him for that. Some (like myself) see him take alot of poor angles and get exposed in the secondary. Whitner gave up more TDs than any safety in the NFL last season. I'd be looking for him to only be in SF one more year.

Against the run both of those guys are monsters. Against the pass, not so much. Very often it doesn'tmatter tho because the pass rush was able to cover it.WHen both Justin and Aldon were hurt, it exposed the safeties. Thats why the Niners loaded up in the front 7 instead of the secondary in the draft.

I do like the Niner corners, but the safeties were overrated.

BTW, on some Niner boards I've seen it argued by Seattle fans that Wagner is just as good as Willis/Bowman. That to me is just as crazy as saying the Niner secondary was as good as Seattles.


Last edited by Marvin49 on Mon May 13, 2013 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 am 
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Generally agree with pretty much everything you've said except Harvin/Crabtree. In identical situations, Harvin is the much better player. +

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:14 am 
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Tical21 wrote:
Generally agree with pretty much everything you've said except Harvin/Crabtree. In identical situations, Harvin is the much better player. +


To each his own. Both players have struggled largely based on the offense they were in and the QB who was behind center.

Crab really started to show the player he was at Texas Tech once Kaep started throwing the ball to him.

Harvin is just a different type of player. While Crab is more of a classic WR, Harvin can do everything well. It'll be interesting to see how they both do this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:14 am 
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BTW, on some Niner boards I've seen it argued by Seattle fans that Wagner is just as good as Willis/Bowman. That to me is just as crazy as saying the Niner secondary was as good as Seattles.


Although I am very high on Wagner, I agree with you on that one. I do believe he will deserve to be talked about in that category in a year or two...but Willis and Bowman are 1A and 1B in the league to me right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:32 am 
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And somewhere on a Niner board there are 150 pages of: "Are the Seahawks kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs..." Flavor of the day...that's all.

Opinions are just that until proven as fact. We will have to wait a few months on that. One thing people ARE agreeing on though...that the Hawks and Niners are two of the current super powers in the NFL. But wait...ask a Rams fan what THEY think...

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:34 am 
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BlueTalons wrote:
And somewhere on a Niner board there are 150 pages of: "Are the Seahawks kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs..." Flavor of the day...that's all.

Opinions are just that until proven as fact. We will have to wait a few months on that. One thing people ARE agreeing on though...that the Hawks and Niners are two of the current super powers in the NFL. But wait...ask a Rams fan what THEY think...


LOL....and don't sleep on the Cardinals.

I think we Niners and Seahawks fans can join in laughing at them and their MLB situation. LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:47 am 
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firebee wrote:
It revolves around players Bending their assignments to make plays, but not breaking assignment and letting opponents make bigger plays than they should've due to undisciplined play.


Uh, is there a philosophy that DOESN'T revolve around that?

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:04 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Giedi wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
True he doesn't blitz because he'd rather stop you at the jump like Pittsburgh of old and no that isn't the definition of bend/don't break hence I question your knowledge or more exactly if you know the definition or meaning of the terminology you're throwing around. Because I think you're meaning something else than you think you do.

Pete does the opposite of bend/don't break. He wants to stone you on defense while shortening the game by running not play some game of field position hockey. He wants short fields to build up a big lead and proceed to play keepaway via running. That style demands an aggressive in your face defense not reckless like Arizona or St. Louis for example.

That's my point. He doesn't blitz. LeBeau is what I mean when you say *aggressive* defense. LeBeau's schemes are calculated defensive calls that aren't sit back and wait for the offense to do something and react to it. Pete's offense, (I take it from your post - since I dont' watch a lot of Seattle games) he's a 4-3 guy, not a 3-4 guy? And he doesn't do a lot of movement and shifting on the defensive side? He lines up in the 4-3 and plays it pretty straight and beats you with solid mistake free team defense like the Parcells and Noll defenses of old?
I see the problem we're using the terminology differently. Pete uses what's called a 4-3 under with a single high safety as the base but really, it shifts often and presents as 4-3 or 3-4 as the situation dictates. I am not technical so I'm explaining this horribly, but he's by no means is he running his defense conservative or just base as you're defining it.

He blitzes plenty but what he's trying to do is achieve pressure/turnovers by shutting off the run and baiting you to pass long without the constant blitzes It's almost like an aggressive Tampa 2 , tempt you to pass but with press coverage and quick pressure from the edge while collapsing the pocket up the middle hence Jesse Williams and the guy from Tampa via FA.

It's the dink and dunk that kills us because it's quick hitting. Hence the Winfield signing both to stop the up the middle running and the quick slant.


That's basically a Bill Parcells kind of defense. No constant blitzing like Lebeau. 4-3 unders really need a strong middle. I can see why Pete let Branch go to the Bills. Wagner looks like a keeper at ILB. Bennet has a question mark with that shoulder surgery. Mebane will be pushed by Willaims. So that middle is a little bit of a questionmark. Dink and dunk offenses have a easy time with read and react 4-3 unders because of the option routes. Zone bliting 3-4's give dink and dunk more problems because it cancels out the read option, but they are based on the 3-4 alignment, not the 4-3. I don't see Pete/Quinn going to a more aggressive 3-4 (like you said 4-3 unders look like 3-4 alignments that have shifted to the weakside) since I don't think that's in Quinn's or Pete's comfort level. When he was DC for the 49ers, Seifert/Carroll played a straight 4-3 with Bryant Young and Dana Subblefield, and it was read and react, not a blitzing gap penetrating kind of defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.


lol I didn't say WE DESERVED. I said we did pretty good minus our best outside and interior pass rushers, starting a rookie and an unknown DE and expecting a pass rush out of necessity, and playing a very competitive early game while allowing 6 points more then your vaunted SF defense did in a late game. Were the Vikings and the Rams such powerhouses that you couldn't overcome the 1 PM Eastern 2.5% (maybe) 2 play a game (maybe) effect of the time zone difference? Why does Goodell prevent East Coast teams from coming west more than two times a season for 2.5% with no thought to West Coast teams going East? I know which way I'd rather travel. Been there and done it.

As for the Ravens, Ray Lewis was barely a difference maker on the field, before or after his absence. Nor did their defense depth step it up, their offense carried them (barely, thank the Steeler collapse) to the playoffs. Unless you are addicted to football, casual fans outside of Baltimore never even heard of Kruger and Ellerbe until after Lewis had returned. His impact wasn't as a best player, it was pure motivation.

I don't even consider the Giants to have a great defense, they regularly get shellacked, yet know how to play on the road, or in the post season. Coughlin does a fine job with those guys. They go to another team, and most of them suck.

As a west coast team the 49ers seem to have handled regional time differences and have been successful, so I don't see regional time difference as an issue that will prevent any west coast team from winning games. Yes Circadian rythms do exist, and yes it does affect performance, but conversly late games should also be a benefit to west coast teams. Theoretically, they should even out over time.

I didn't mean that Ray Lewis was an impact player on the Baltimore defense this year, what I meant was that if you look at any championship team, they have very good depth on the defensive side. Well, good depth all around, really. That's what I meant. As for the Giants, their pass rush got old this year, and hence their defensive depth really lost some substance. I think Osi was let go and signed with another team, if I recall correctly.

The vikings and the rams exposed a weakned defensive line, and that's what the 49ers remedied this past draft. Seattle ran over the 49er replacement DE in December 23, 2012. That's what happens if a team does not have championship depth.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Archer wrote:
Giedi wrote:

Again, bend but don't break defenses are used when you dont' have defensive talent to go toe to toe with an offense between the 20's.

As for the Giants. The Old Giants Parcells defense is a yardage defense. Meaning they will stifle your offense yardage-wise. Carl Banks, Lenard Marshall and Lawrence taylor, to name a few were very disruptive players and disrupted offenses. Those were athletic freaks, like Howie Long, that just by their athletic ability will disrupt an offense. However, the Giants defense philosophically was to try stifle your offense (at least the ones run by Bill Parcells) with solid mistake free team defense. They had big guys in the front and outside guys that could pass rush, and DB's that could cover. It was a stifling defense, never made any mistakes, and never needed to blitz. Same with the Steeler Defense, they had only like four defensive formation calls and nobody could beat them despite knowing exactly which defense was bieng called.

Disruptive defenses like the Raider defenses of old used gap penetration schemes to achieve their ends, which is to get into the backfield and destory blocking schemes or take out the QB. Old raider defenses had the primary purpose of taking away the football from the opposing offense. Whereas Steeler and Giant's defense of old were very solid, physically imposing, and simply stronger than almost all offenses - didn't gap penetrate and simply held their ground and didn't let you move or go anywhere.

Good solid front 7 play is a must in any defense. Be it the Tampa 2, Wide 9, Eagle 5-2, or 46. That goes without saying. No, my main point is that when Pete was with the 49ers they rarely blitzed, and I can see in the games last year and the year before, he still runs a cautious defense.


How is the 1st in scoring Defense, and 4th in yards Defense a "bend but don't break". I don't think you actually paid much attention to the Seahawks D last year if that is truly what you think. The D did have issues with the pass rush and especially later in the year, the run defense, but they were a top D by basically every available metric. The Seahawks team overall last year was 1st in DVOA and is not a fluke team. Seattle has some of the best defensive talent in the league and your post reads like wishful thinking.

Seattle is a top D, no question. But that doesn't mean you don't play various kinds of defenses. Some teams, I"m sure, you'll blitz to death because you can, and because they are behind. Some teams are ahead, and you have to play straight up because that's how the game is going. My simple point was that Pete Carroll, from his time with the 49ers is a very conservative defensive coach. He doesn't like to take chances if he can avoid it. Contrast that with guys like LeBeau, who build in aggression and high risk/high reward plays into their basic defenses. From what limited games I've seen of Pete's defense, he's still pretty much the same coach I remember from the 1990's.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:30 pm 
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RichNhansom wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
Jones had been on IR since 12/28. Red was dealing through a plantar fascia injury. So we had to take a situational rookie DE and plant him in Clemons spot and expect him to anchor the run (a weakness for Irvin all season) with nobody to relieve him AND Red but a player that hadn't played a NFL football down in 5 years and whose name rhymes with Chupacabra. Now, I like Irvin, but he isn't a world beater, and rookie Dlineman take quite awhile to get used to regular season games much less get thrown out of position and expected to hold 3 downs against a good O line in a Divisional playoff game.

Small wonder it didn't work? If anything, gambling that Clemons wouldn't get hurt and not adequately addressing depth was more the problem with the defense in that loss. We did address that in the offseason with Avril and Bennett. Whether or not they'll be world beaters remains to be seen.

As for the 6 points, lol. Seattle was the only west Coast playoff team to visit an east coast stadium with a 1 pm ET kickoff time. There's just no excuse for that in the playoffs, IMO. Out of three regular season 1PM ET starts the 9ers endured in 2012, their only win was at the Jets.

Despite all that, 28 seconds and 2 points short of a road playoff win after being down 27-7 in the 3rd quarter is hardly anything to be ashamed of, considering our dline issues.


Jones and Red seem to have durability problems, from your info above. If 'Hawks are going to be a championship team, they have to have championship depth. The 49ers, back in their heyday had Hall of Fame players backing up hall of fame players. Of course, that's drastically changed with the Salary cap. But take the NY Giants, they won the superbowl because they had sufficient depth to get through the rough spots during the season, and weather the storm. When their stars came back - it was just in time for a superbowl run. I think it's the same with Baltimore. They suffered losses to Ray Lewis and I believe Ed Reed and still were able to make the playoffs and make a superbowl run. I just don't think this years draft added much to your defensive depth.

As for regional time zone differences, if the effect is 2.5% - in a 70 play game that's a difference of 1.75 plays. If your team can't overcome one or two good plays by the opposing home team, you don't deserve to be in the Playoffs or Superbowl. Laofo and I had an extensive discussion on this and that's why defense is so important in playoff or big game scenarios with regional time zone differences.



So then your saying your loss at the clink was only about a 1.5% variable? Sounds about right to me. If everything was in perfect alignment for the Niners that night we probably only win by 25.

Dude your homer double standards are painful to read. We didn't do enough on defense but your draft will save you.

Come on man at least read your own write ups.

I don't think regional time zone differences affect teams in the same time zone. Maybe *you* should re-read your post before you submit it?


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:39 pm 
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firebee wrote:
The pundits look at the paper and see Glenn Dorsey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Eric Reid, Anquan Boldin, Tavon Austin and perhaps even Craig Dahl as great improvement on the defense while they lost Goldson, Sopoaga and Francois. They don't look at the fact that lack of continuity on the defense is going to effect the Niners on defense early. Look for a lot of breakdowns in coverage to happen the first half of the season for the Niners. The niners also don't have a lot of depth. They're one injury away in the secondary and on the defensive line from having an average to below average squad in both of those respected catgories.

Seattle already boasts one of the best secondaries in the league... if not the best. Lane can step in at either corner position and hold the position down. We signed Winfield to play nickel and let Trufant go, which is a push. We resigned Jeron Johnson, who is one of the most underrated safeties in the league, simply because he's stuck behind Thomas and Chancellor, two of the best safeties in the league. We added Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett, two top notch DEs to a defensive line that still has Mebane and Bryant with Irvin as an up and comer at DE or LB and two highly touted DTs competing for playing time. We lost Leroy Hill, but we've been grooming 3 linebackers in Toomer, Smith and Morgan behind him with great physical tools the last 2 years. Wagner and Wright should only get better and they're already really good to begin with. Let's not forget about our Special Teams Ace Heath Farwell either.

Our offensive lines are a push and both should perform extremely well this year due to their experience and continuity. Neither team lost any major players and both have quality depth. Receivers are a push and Backs are a push. Quarterbacks are a push. Both are still young relatively inexperienced quarterbacks with great playmaking ability. Problem is... San Fran is playing against Seattle in Seattle their second game of the year where Kaepernick had problems last year and where all the breakdowns in coverage will occur due to the lack of continuity on the Niners defense. San Fran will get stomped on in Seattle after Seattle comes back from Carolina. Then Seattle plays in San Fran 2 weeks after a bye week with a home game against New Orleans in between. By this time, San Fran will be feeling the effects of a key injury or two on defense and Seattle will put the nail in the coffin by sweeping San Fran due to San Fran's faltering defense that was plagued with lack of continuity at the beginning of the season and effected by lack of depth to injuries later in the season. Timing of the schedule mixed with lack of depth on the Niners defense is going to cost the Niners the division title and possibly a playoff spot this year. They appear to be better on paper when you compare their starting lineup to other starting lineups, but they're depth and lack of continuity is going to be their achilles heel.

Personally, I think the continuity in coaching (Gus to Dan) is going to be more of a hinderance than the 49ers plugging in new defensive players on a stable coaching staff that had zero turnover. I think your coaching staff, Dan and Travis are new. You also (as you pointed out above in your post) have to integrate new players from the draft and also free agent from other teams - so that's the same on both teams. Dan and Travis dont' have impressive resume's as far as I know, but I don't know much about them in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:32 am 
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Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
lol I didn't say WE DESERVED. I said we did pretty good minus our best outside and interior pass rushers, starting a rookie and an unknown DE and expecting a pass rush out of necessity, and playing a very competitive early game while allowing 6 points more then your vaunted SF defense did in a late game. Were the Vikings and the Rams such powerhouses that you couldn't overcome the 1 PM Eastern 2.5% (maybe) 2 play a game (maybe) effect of the time zone difference? Why does Goodell prevent East Coast teams from coming west more than two times a season for 2.5% with no thought to West Coast teams going East? I know which way I'd rather travel. Been there and done it.

As for the Ravens, Ray Lewis was barely a difference maker on the field, before or after his absence. Nor did their defense depth step it up, their offense carried them (barely, thank the Steeler collapse) to the playoffs. Unless you are addicted to football, casual fans outside of Baltimore never even heard of Kruger and Ellerbe until after Lewis had returned. His impact wasn't as a best player, it was pure motivation.

I don't even consider the Giants to have a great defense, they regularly get shellacked, yet know how to play on the road, or in the post season. Coughlin does a fine job with those guys. They go to another team, and most of them suck.

As a west coast team the 49ers seem to have handled regional time differences and have been successful, so I don't see regional time difference as an issue that will prevent any west coast team from winning games. Yes Circadian rythms do exist, and yes it does affect performance, but conversly late games should also be a benefit to west coast teams. Theoretically, they should even out over time.

I didn't mean that Ray Lewis was an impact player on the Baltimore defense this year, what I meant was that if you look at any championship team, they have very good depth on the defensive side. Well, good depth all around, really. That's what I meant. As for the Giants, their pass rush got old this year, and hence their defensive depth really lost some substance. I think Osi was let go and signed with another team, if I recall correctly.

The vikings and the rams exposed a weakned defensive line, and that's what the 49ers remedied this past draft. Seattle ran over the 49er replacement DE in December 23, 2012. That's what happens if a team does not have championship depth.


Take away the non salary cap, and early Free Agency years from SF's record and I think you'd be less impressed. All those Saint, Buc, and Stl Rams for 3 1 PM ET time slot a year pads sure ran up the stats when they didn't have a hope in hell of producing equal teams. Regardless, if you are the best in the league at traveling time zones, why should that matter?

Roger Goodell saw fit to fix east coast teams so they did not have to ride west more then twice a year. Based upon the lesser phenomenon of traveling from east to west. Are you arguing that bias shouldn't matter to me? Or should you tell him if he's going to pad east coast winning percentages with this policy, then perhaps he shouldn't schedule massive 1 PM ET starts for west coast teams in east coast stadiums, just to make the policy ALL INCLUSIVE.

Perhaps, if he did that, PST teams wouldn't be so radically up and down or just perennially suck and build some market power to rival the east?

Nothing theoretical about this, its about keeping larger markets on the east coast by not subjecting them to radical time differences, artificially padding their winning percentages, so they don't have the huge bandwagon swings that West Coast teams have.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:45 am 
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Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
lol I didn't say WE DESERVED. I said we did pretty good minus our best outside and interior pass rushers, starting a rookie and an unknown DE and expecting a pass rush out of necessity, and playing a very competitive early game while allowing 6 points more then your vaunted SF defense did in a late game. Were the Vikings and the Rams such powerhouses that you couldn't overcome the 1 PM Eastern 2.5% (maybe) 2 play a game (maybe) effect of the time zone difference? Why does Goodell prevent East Coast teams from coming west more than two times a season for 2.5% with no thought to West Coast teams going East? I know which way I'd rather travel. Been there and done it.

As for the Ravens, Ray Lewis was barely a difference maker on the field, before or after his absence. Nor did their defense depth step it up, their offense carried them (barely, thank the Steeler collapse) to the playoffs. Unless you are addicted to football, casual fans outside of Baltimore never even heard of Kruger and Ellerbe until after Lewis had returned. His impact wasn't as a best player, it was pure motivation.

I don't even consider the Giants to have a great defense, they regularly get shellacked, yet know how to play on the road, or in the post season. Coughlin does a fine job with those guys. They go to another team, and most of them suck.

As a west coast team the 49ers seem to have handled regional time differences and have been successful, so I don't see regional time difference as an issue that will prevent any west coast team from winning games. Yes Circadian rythms do exist, and yes it does affect performance, but conversly late games should also be a benefit to west coast teams. Theoretically, they should even out over time.

I didn't mean that Ray Lewis was an impact player on the Baltimore defense this year, what I meant was that if you look at any championship team, they have very good depth on the defensive side. Well, good depth all around, really. That's what I meant. As for the Giants, their pass rush got old this year, and hence their defensive depth really lost some substance. I think Osi was let go and signed with another team, if I recall correctly.

The vikings and the rams exposed a weakned defensive line, and that's what the 49ers remedied this past draft. Seattle ran over the 49er replacement DE in December 23, 2012. That's what happens if a team does not have championship depth.


Take away the non salary cap, and early Free Agency years from SF's record and I think you'd be less impressed. All those Saint, Buc, and Stl Rams for 3 1 PM ET time slot a year pads sure ran up the stats when they didn't have a hope in hell of producing equal teams. Regardless, if you are the best in the league at traveling time zones, why should that matter?

Roger Goodell saw fit to fix east coast teams so they did not have to ride west more then twice a year. Based upon the lesser phenomenon of traveling from east to west. Are you arguing that bias shouldn't matter to me? Or should you tell him if he's going to pad east coast winning percentages with this policy, then perhaps he shouldn't schedule massive 1 PM ET starts for west coast teams in east coast stadiums, just to make the policy ALL INCLUSIVE.

Perhaps, if he did that, PST teams wouldn't be so radically up and down or just perennially suck and build some market power to rival the east?

Nothing theoretical about this, its about keeping larger markets on the east coast by not subjecting them to radical time differences, artificially padding their winning percentages, so they don't have the huge bandwagon swings that West Coast teams have.


SMDH.

Are you seriously going to try and talk like you know anything about the older days of the NFC West and then have us take you seriously when you quote the Bucs as a team in that division?

Really?

Year after year the 49ers were the most traveled team in the NFL. Thats not an advatage no matter how you want to spin it. The Siants, Rams, and FALCONS also had times when they were good teams and contended for the playoffs...they just couldn't compete with SF.

I am soooooo tired of theis "if you take away the pre salary cap era its not as impressive". Um....There was no free agency. The Niner drafted almost all of the players on theier roster. Having all that money isn't the advantage you think when nobody can escape their team.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:49 am 
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Marvin49 wrote:
Year after year the 49ers were the most traveled team in the NFL. Thats not an advatage no matter ow you want to spin it.


You're right, it's not; but all the corruption and cheating by a certain DeBartolo back in the day sure was. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:58 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:
Year after year the 49ers were the most traveled team in the NFL. Thats not an advatage no matter ow you want to spin it.


You're right, it's not; but all the corruption and cheating by a certain DeBartolo back in the day sure was. 8)


SMDH. Dude.

Seriously? That crap? Please explain to me what cheating you are referring to. There was no salary cap. Where did they cheat?

The only thing that they were guilty of was a modification to Brent Jones final contract as a 49er that allowed them to sign....wait for it....Jim Druckenmiller. They then tunred THEMSELVES in and lost a 3rd round pick.

I understand it's the popular notion of teams that hate the Niners to circulate this crap, but it ain't true. Its just an excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:34 am 
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Marvin49 wrote:
Lady Talon wrote:
Giedi wrote:
As a west coast team the 49ers seem to have handled regional time differences and have been successful, so I don't see regional time difference as an issue that will prevent any west coast team from winning games. Yes Circadian rythms do exist, and yes it does affect performance, but conversly late games should also be a benefit to west coast teams. Theoretically, they should even out over time.

I didn't mean that Ray Lewis was an impact player on the Baltimore defense this year, what I meant was that if you look at any championship team, they have very good depth on the defensive side. Well, good depth all around, really. That's what I meant. As for the Giants, their pass rush got old this year, and hence their defensive depth really lost some substance. I think Osi was let go and signed with another team, if I recall correctly.

The vikings and the rams exposed a weakned defensive line, and that's what the 49ers remedied this past draft. Seattle ran over the 49er replacement DE in December 23, 2012. That's what happens if a team does not have championship depth.


Take away the non salary cap, and early Free Agency years from SF's record and I think you'd be less impressed. All those Saint, Buc, and Stl Rams for 3 1 PM ET time slot a year pads sure ran up the stats when they didn't have a hope in hell of producing equal teams. Regardless, if you are the best in the league at traveling time zones, why should that matter?

Roger Goodell saw fit to fix east coast teams so they did not have to ride west more then twice a year. Based upon the lesser phenomenon of traveling from east to west. Are you arguing that bias shouldn't matter to me? Or should you tell him if he's going to pad east coast winning percentages with this policy, then perhaps he shouldn't schedule massive 1 PM ET starts for west coast teams in east coast stadiums, just to make the policy ALL INCLUSIVE.

Perhaps, if he did that, PST teams wouldn't be so radically up and down or just perennially suck and build some market power to rival the east?

Nothing theoretical about this, its about keeping larger markets on the east coast by not subjecting them to radical time differences, artificially padding their winning percentages, so they don't have the huge bandwagon swings that West Coast teams have.


SMDH.

Are you seriously going to try and talk like you know anything about the older days of the NFC West and then have us take you seriously when you quote the Bucs as a team in that division?

Really?

Year after year the 49ers were the most traveled team in the NFL. Thats not an advatage no matter how you want to spin it. The Siants, Rams, and FALCONS also had times when they were good teams and contended for the playoffs...they just couldn't compete with SF.

I am soooooo tired of theis "if you take away the pre salary cap era its not as impressive". Um....There was no free agency. The Niner drafted almost all of the players on theier roster. Having all that money isn't the advantage you think when nobody can escape their team.


If you're going to be emotional, go stay in smack shack where it's normal talk. Go look at the time stamp of my post and realize it was probably a mistake. I make them. If you're tired of people's opinions of the Niners, stay out of the Seahawks fan forum. Also, if you demand post perfection, type with less spelling errors, looks bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:35 am 
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And we've reached a conclusion to this thread

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