Seattle a "run-first" team?

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Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:13 am
  • Yea, yea, Seattle is a run-first team. Everybody's been saying so for a while now, and running a rookie quarterback behind one of the best running backs in the game would seem to indicate it as well. And we draft not only another surprise running back in this draft, but two of them. And the receiver we draft is known for his down field blocking. And the tight end we picked up is a really good blocker as well.

    All signs point to it.

    And yet they don't. We picked up one of the most explosive pass catchers in the game with Percy Harvin. And if you go back and look at Wilson's touchdown passes, you'll note he had more longer bombs than Hasselbeck did pretty much his entire career in blue and green. And he tied the record for most touchdown passes thrown by a rookie quarterback. None of those really indicate a "run-first" team. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    So what are we, a "run-first" team or a "passing" team?

    I say neither. We'll continue to do business as we do business. All of those trades and draft picks don't indicate a bent for running or for passing, but rather a goal of more efficiently moving the ball down the field and putting it in the end zone for the score. Harper may be a great blocker, but he's also known for great hands. Ware may be another running back, but he was drafted to fix the problem of not converting third and short situations. And so on.

    I'm putting on my prognosticator's hat for a moment here and saying we will not be a predominantly "run-first" team. Nor will we be ultra-reliant on the passing game. We will still be balanced; we'll just do a much better job of executing, because that's what puts points on the board and wins games.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:14 am
  • I think in todays NFL being a balanced team is being a run first team.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:15 am
  • Run to win, throw to score.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:20 am
  • I think the sense that we are a "run-first" team comes from the fact that we had the most rushing attempts of any team in the league last season and the fewest passing attempts. Seriously, 1st and 32nd. Polar opposites.

    Now, when we DID pass, our yards per attempt were top 10 in the league. So while we passed fewer times than any other team, we made the most of it when we did.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:22 am
  • We'll be a "run first" team, but not a "run only" team. The run will set up the pass. Once teams adjust to stop the run; then the bombs start flying. I do get the impression though that if Pete could run the ball successfully on every down, eating up clock and yardage, he'd be more than happy to do so.

    All the additional pieces in the passing game make the offense super dynamic, but I don't necessarily think it means we are going to drastically change one of Pete's main philosophies; which is pound the rock and play lights out defense. I don't see this recent influx of recieving talent as any kind of indication that we're turning into the`91 Oilers. It just gives us more options for when opponents inevitably step up to stuff the run; now when they do, Russ'll make em pay.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:24 am
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Yea, yea, Seattle is a run-first team. Everybody's been saying so for a while now, and running a rookie quarterback behind one of the best running backs in the game would seem to indicate it as well. And we draft not only another surprise running back in this draft, but two of them. And the receiver we draft is known for his down field blocking. And the tight end we picked up is a really good blocker as well.

    All signs point to it.

    And yet they don't. We picked up one of the most explosive pass catchers in the game with Percy Harvin. And if you go back and look at Wilson's touchdown passes, you'll note he had more longer bombs than Hasselbeck did pretty much his entire career in blue and green. And he tied the record for most touchdown passes thrown by a rookie quarterback. None of those really indicate a "run-first" team. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    So what are we, a "run-first" team or a "passing" team?

    I say neither. We'll continue to do business as we do business. All of those trades and draft picks don't indicate a bent for running or for passing, but rather a goal of more efficiently moving the ball down the field and putting it in the end zone for the score. Harper may be a great blocker, but he's also known for great hands. Ware may be another running back, but he was drafted to fix the problem of not converting third and short situations. And so on.

    I'm putting on my prognosticator's hat for a moment here and saying we will not be a predominantly "run-first" team. Nor will we be ultra-reliant on the passing game. We will still be balanced; we'll just do a much better job of executing, because that's what puts points on the board and wins games.


    I think this is the key point. Seattle wants a balanced attack. As close to 50-50 as possible. Obviously in some games we'll run more, or pass more depending on the opponent. But when USC was kicking arse back in the day they had a scary good run game and a dynamic passing attack all at the same time- Remembe when you had Bush and White pounding the rock both getting 100 yard games routinely. Meanwhile they had guys like DeWayne Jarrett, Steve Smith and along with good pass catching Te's such as Dominique Bird and Anthony McCoy, while also having success with their FB's in Kirtman and Havili.

    The reason they were so succesfful was because they could do it all on offense. I think that's what PC is building here in Seattle. A team that can be physical and pound it, and at the very same time be explosive and efficient in the passing game. I love what the offense is shaping up to be this year. Carolina better be ready, because the struggling offense they faced last year is long gone.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:31 am
  • We're going to keep the opposition guessing ;)
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:33 am
  • Ill take the "run first" label all day... It all starts with the run. Play-action opens up also. If we can prove to teams we can run the ball on all 3 downs and still get a first, in my opinion that's truly dominating a game.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:44 am
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote: We picked up one of the most explosive pass catchers in the game with Percy Harvin.


    You can't forget that Percy Harvin also adds a dynamic element to the run game and was catching a ton of passes in the backfield last season. I don't even really see him as a deep threat guy either. I envision him as being sort of what Pete had with Reggie Bush at USC: an all-purpose weapon.

    Seahawk Sailor wrote: And if you go back and look at Wilson's touchdown passes, you'll note he had more longer bombs than Hasselbeck did pretty much his entire career in blue and green. And he tied the record for most touchdown passes thrown by a rookie quarterback. None of those really indicate a "run-first" team. Quite the opposite, in fact.


    Occasional deep bombs don't really contradict the fact that this is a run first team. That's actually by design and exactly the type of offense Pete wants. You run the ball to establish the play action, and when you take you take your shots in the passing game, you take them deep. You make the most of those passing opportunities. From my understanding, this is the Pete Carroll offense boiled down to its most basic elements (i.e. run first, take deep shots in the passing game). These off-season acquisitions do nothing to suggest a departure from this style of football.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:51 am
  • DavidSeven wrote:Occasional deep bombs don't really contradict the fact that this is a run first team. That's actually by design and exactly the type of offense Pete wants. You run the ball to establish the play action, and when you take you take your shots in the passing game, you take them deep. You make the most of those passing opportunities. From my understanding, this is the Pete Carroll offense boiled down to its most basic elements (i.e. run first, take deep shots in the passing game). These off-season acquisitions do nothing to suggest a departure from this style of football.


    Exactly what I was going to post. A+. The reason we have so many exciting plays where Russell throws deep is because we attempt so many rushes compared to other teams.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 10:57 am
  • FWIW, Pete said in one of his most recent radio interviews that we will continue to be a run-first team.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 11:12 am
  • We are a multifaceted team. We are made to beat anyone, we can play smash mouth run the ball down another teams throat see SF,Pitt, ect , or we can air out out fun and gun with the likes of NE, GB, and NO. It doesn't matter who we face we can be effective. The plus side of being soo great at the run is when we do get the lead we can eat the clock and run out the game. Some teams can put up points but only know how to do it fast.

    I expect to see the most physical run game in the NFL augmented by a top 5 most explosive passing games. If we had a dominate #2 TE I think we'd be impossible to stop.

    So yes we are a run team, and yes we are a passing team. Closest team of the past the compares to us is probably Denver back when Elway, Terell Davis, Ed McCaffery, Rod Smith and Shannon Sharpe were all together.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 am
  • How the Seahawks choose to use their talent will be based on the talent of the opposing team for that specific week. If the opposing team in a certain week has an easier time stuffing the run, we will exploit their passing defense and mix in the run game to keep them honest. If the opposing team is better at playing the pass, we will run the ball down their throats and mix in play actions and pick them apart when we catch them slacking.

    Our offense is balanced. Pick your poison. It's how well the coaching staff implements strategy based around their opponents strengths & weaknesses that will define what type of offense our team will have for that given week.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 12:37 pm
  • I seem to remember PC said he defined a good balance to be 55% pass, 45% run when asked at the Percy signing press conference. Which is the opposite from last year. Starting a rookie put a lot of pressure on Marshawn, at first.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 1:32 pm
  • I loved "Ground Chuck" when I was a L.A. Rams fan living in the area and he was the coach of them at that time. And when he became head coach of the Seahawks and I then lived in the NW, I knew we would have a good competitive team.

    And now all these years later we have this Coach/GM that are working so tight together, and we take an RB with our first pick in the draft and I say, YEAH, we will be running first.

    Oop's.....We can also throw, from anywhere on the field.

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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 1:47 pm
  • i expect to see less running per game to be honest.. Beast can't keep up that pace and punishment to many more seasons, plus i would like to see a more balanced attack, keep them guess as another poster suggested.. as long as we're not predictable like last season, i think we'll be successful at both.. and extremely dangRuss
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 1:52 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:i expect to see less running per game to be honest.. Beast can't keep up that pace and punishment to many more seasons, plus i would like to see a more balanced attack, keep them guess as another poster suggested.. as long as we're not predictable like last season, i think we'll be successful at both.. and extremely dangRuss


    But then again, they invested a 2nd rd pick in Michael and also picked up Ware. We already had Turbin.

    I'd expect to see about 5 more passes a game, especially screens. Expect more passes as we get to the Red Zone.

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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 2:29 pm
  • Basis4day wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:i expect to see less running per game to be honest.. Beast can't keep up that pace and punishment to many more seasons, plus i would like to see a more balanced attack, keep them guess as another poster suggested.. as long as we're not predictable like last season, i think we'll be successful at both.. and extremely dangRuss


    But then again, they invested a 2nd rd pick in Michael and also picked up Ware. We already had Turbin.

    I'd expect to see about 5 more passes a game, especially screens. Expect more passes as we get to the Red Zone.

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    AND we still have MRob, AND Wilson can run AND so can Harvin AND Tate. We can run the shit out of that rock from all sides and angles. I don't expect to see us quite so dependent on Marshawn this year. I bet he cracks 1k yards, but not by much (maybe 1,100 or so).
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 2:45 pm
  • lukerguy wrote:Run to win, throw to score.



    This.

    Pete and Bevell both say this, often.

    Run run run to control the game, and when the other team is selling out to try to make you stop running . . bomb them
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 2:46 pm
  • We're a "win-first" team.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 4:23 pm
  • We're going to run a lot, but I think Marshawn got a bit worn down at the end of the year, thus the fumbles.

    With Michael, Turbin having another year, Harvin and our two FB's, we're not going to back down, we're just going to rest the Beast a bit more.

    Harvin just adds so much versatility, it's going to be a lot more unpredictable. Throw in some read option plays, and mix it up, and we're good.

    Funny thing, we ran the ball a ton last year...but when we went to throw, we'd go 5 wide and THROW. We're so versatile, we have effective formations in play action, 2 TE sets, 3 + WR sets, and the Pistol. I'd hate to be a DC facing this team next year.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 4:32 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:I think the sense that we are a "run-first" team comes from the fact that we had the most rushing attempts of any team in the league last season and the fewest passing attempts. Seriously, 1st and 32nd. Polar opposites.

    Now, when we DID pass, our yards per attempt were top 10 in the league. So while we passed fewer times than any other team, we made the most of it when we did.



    Well technically if you have the most rushing attempts, you should have the least passing attempts. Assuming most teams get about the same touches on the ball.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 4:36 pm
  • gspin2k1 wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:I think the sense that we are a "run-first" team comes from the fact that we had the most rushing attempts of any team in the league last season and the fewest passing attempts. Seriously, 1st and 32nd. Polar opposites.

    Now, when we DID pass, our yards per attempt were top 10 in the league. So while we passed fewer times than any other team, we made the most of it when we did.



    Well technically if you have the most rushing attempts, you should have the least passing attempts. Assuming most teams get about the same touches on the ball.


    We could have the most rushing yards and good passing numbers if the D shuts people down and we have the ball 35+ minutes power game.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 4:41 pm
  • I love having a team that can rush effectively, and clearly Pete does as well. I'm betting we stay very balanced. The key is, in the first games last year they'd rush in situations where a pass would have been more effective because they wanted to bring RW along slowly. Towards the end, they'd still rush a lot, however when the pass was open they'd open the throttle on it to great result.

    Count me in as one who feels that the omnipresent running threat really helps RW kill it when the opportunity presents itself. Freeze the LBs and ball it.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 7:10 pm
  • Basically, there are two reasons to run the ball: to open up the passing game and to end the game with fewer plays/drives for both teams.

    In basketball you see this exact same concept of shortening the game. Teams with 15 point leads in the NBA tend to wait until the final seconds of the shot clock before attempting a basket. By doing so, they reduce the number of total possessions left in the game which means fewer chances for a comeback by the opponent. This probably explains why 300 yard passers historically only win half their games, whereas 100 yard rushers win most of them.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 7:22 pm
  • Good comments all. I'd like to add that while we are a "run first" team, we can (and have on several occasions) air it out and overcome large point deficits when they occur.

    This gives the team confidence. In today's game, a lot of coaches will panic if they can't move the ball and get behind by a couple of scores. We know we can play catch up ball effectively. If necessary, we can keep up with high scoring offenses.

    Plus, our run game is explosive enough that we don't have to completely abandon it if we're behind on the scoreboard.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 7:51 pm
  • WIth the fluidity of Wilson and PErcy, I don't think that PC see's much difference in dumping off to Percy as to handing off to Lynch.

    Too, there will plenty of opps where Percy will be in the backfield with Russ and Lynch.

    It will be an awesome and dynamic a offense as seen in the NFL.. ever.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 7:52 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:i expect to see less running per game


    I have the same opinion here.

    To ne honest, I'd Like to see more pass attempts per game in 2013 season.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 8:37 pm
  • I'd like to see one successful Superbowl win attempt per post-season in 2013 season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 8:38 pm
  • BirdsCommaAngry wrote:I'd like to see one successful Superbowl win attempt per post-season in 2013 season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    There are no more Super Bowls in 2013.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 8:57 pm
  • kearly wrote:Basically, there are two reasons to run the ball: to open up the passing game and to end the game with fewer plays/drives for both teams.

    In basketball you see this exact same concept of shortening the game. Teams with 15 point leads in the NBA tend to wait until the final seconds of the shot clock before attempting a basket. By doing so, they reduce the number of total possessions left in the game which means fewer chances for a comeback by the opponent. This probably explains why 300 yard passers historically only win half their games, whereas 100 yard rushers win most of them.

    Points taken, and agreed with, but I don't think either one of those are really why one would prefer to run the football. The first is that typically running the ball is safer. Less can go wrong. The second is to physically intimidate and impose your will on an opposing defense. For this reason, I think that if it was possible to run the ball 100% of the time, Carroll would do it. Sadly, you need to pass the ball some to be successful running the football. That said, the emphasis will always be on running the ball effectively while Carroll is our coach. Running all over a team demoralizes them in a way that passing all over them doesn't. You feel like you got run over. This matches Carroll's personality more so than a finesse game would. He doesn't want to just beat you, he wants to take your heart out and step on it, put it back in, shake hands and thank you for the competition with a smile.

    It took a long time last season before we started throwing routinely on 1st and 2nd down. That will change, but only to open up the running game. I also agree with JSeahawks, run-first is more of a mentality than a statistical trend. The game just doesn't work the same way. Passing teams score points.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 9:01 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:
    kearly wrote:Basically, there are two reasons to run the ball: to open up the passing game and to end the game with fewer plays/drives for both teams.

    In basketball you see this exact same concept of shortening the game. Teams with 15 point leads in the NBA tend to wait until the final seconds of the shot clock before attempting a basket. By doing so, they reduce the number of total possessions left in the game which means fewer chances for a comeback by the opponent. This probably explains why 300 yard passers historically only win half their games, whereas 100 yard rushers win most of them.

    Points taken, and agreed with, but I don't think either one of those are really why one would prefer to run the football. The first is that typically running the ball is safer. Less can go wrong. The second is to physically intimidate and impose your will on an opposing defense. For this reason, I think that if it was possible to run the ball 100% of the time, Carroll would do it. Sadly, you need to pass the ball some to be successful running the football. That said, the emphasis will always be on running the ball effectively while Carroll is our coach. Running all over a team demoralizes them in a way that passing all over them doesn't. You feel like you got run over. This matches Carroll's personality more so than a finesse game would. He doesn't want to just beat you, he wants to take your heart out and step on it, put it back in, shake hands and thank you for the competition with a smile.

    It took a long time last season before we started throwing routinely on 1st and 2nd down. That will change, but only to open up the running game. I also agree with JSeahawks, run-first is more of a mentality than a statistical trend. The game just doesn't work the same way. Passing teams score points.


    I would add running the ball to take time off the clock as well.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 11:22 pm
  • I know its kinda been covered but I just wanted to add my two pennies.

    If anything our off-season acquisitions point right towards us continuing to use our running game to open up the passing game and continue to be a "run first" mentality. Percy Harvin's value comes in his home run play ability, the guy is a YAC machine. Christine Michael is another home run threat, he's a one cut and go guy with a ridiculous top speed that's known for making big time plays. Putting these types of players on the field is going to make defenses have to account for them to not get in space, allowing us to make plays down field to Rice and Tate. Any defenses primary concern against the 'Hawks will have to be stopping the run and home run play ability from the likes of our backs and Harvin.

    I will say that Chris Harper is an improvement to the passing game. He'll be a ghost mostly between the 20s, but in the red zone he'll be able to play big and physical and be a threat that has to be accounted for at all times in the end zone. I think they definitely focused on boosting the run first, but also found a way to help out the passing game as well. Carroll and Schneider have built up an offense that will keep defenses on their toes and can beat you in a hundred different ways.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Wed May 01, 2013 11:37 pm
  • I wish we could all be hanging out in person right now, cuz all I'd do is giggle.
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    MysterMatt
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Re: Seattle a
Thu May 02, 2013 1:23 am
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:
    gspin2k1 wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:I think the sense that we are a "run-first" team comes from the fact that we had the most rushing attempts of any team in the league last season and the fewest passing attempts. Seriously, 1st and 32nd. Polar opposites.

    Now, when we DID pass, our yards per attempt were top 10 in the league. So while we passed fewer times than any other team, we made the most of it when we did.



    Well technically if you have the most rushing attempts, you should have the least passing attempts. Assuming most teams get about the same touches on the ball.


    We could have the most rushing yards and good passing numbers if the D shuts people down and we have the ball 35+ minutes power game.


    This is why I think no one on the team should be more excited about all these defensive upgrades than Lynch. If things go to plan he could have a legit shot at 2,000 yards if we control the ball like it seems we're destined to.
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    RussellMania
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Thu May 02, 2013 2:25 am
  • I've always considered the idea of running to eat up clock to be absurd. If you're better than your opponent -- in other words, if you can expect your offense to average more points per drive against the opposing defense than the opposing offense can expect to average against your defense -- then you should want to preserve the clock and maximize the number of drives. The ability to sustain long time consuming drives can be useful at times (with a 4th quarter lead or getting the ball with 5:00 left in the 1st half, for example) but as a base offense in situations where the clock/score isn't as much of a factor, running time off the clock should not be a goal.

    When our offense struggled early last year, there was a trend of going run-run-3rd and long pass-punt. When the coaches started taking the training wheels off Wilson and calling some passing plays on 1st and 2nd downs, the offense quickly went from one of the league's worst to the league's best. I would expect that to continue this year with a higher percentage of passing plays, especially on 1st downs.
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Thu May 02, 2013 2:46 am
  • 1. Why would you want to subject a QB to hits via pass rush especially since if you're nursing a lead, the opposing DC will be riding his players to make a play?

    2. Running forces the opposition to blow timeouts instead of saving them for a potential game tying/winning drive. Why take the chance that an incomplete pass save them a timeout that in retrospect helps them in a comeback?

    3. DBs will get chippier and attempt to strip, accept penalties, and otherwise beat the hell out of fragile receivers at the urging of their DC. Why put the ball into their hands instead of a RB that is paid to absorb abuse and protect the rock?

    4. More plays only increase the likelyhood of your team tiring out and sustaining injury.

    All great reasons to consider running out the clock with rushing attempts and as few passing attempts as you can manage if you are holding a lead.
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    Lady Talon
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Re: Seattle a "run-first" team?
Thu May 02, 2013 6:29 am
  • i agree Ladytalon , run to close out a game.. i would like to see a more balanced attack to start the game.. last season we all saw Run Run Pass, every posession until the second half of the season, we saw this in ATL and WAS as well, until Bevell realized we need to get back into the game, and opened the playbook.. why not do that at the beginning of the game to avoid these large deficits... i'm not saying abandon or go away from running, just mix it up, keep the D on their heels, we have the weapons to do it...
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    hawker84
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