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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 pm 
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kearly - your way smarter than me when it comes to this, but I look at his arms in the pictures and videos out there. To me, I see a Defensive tackle that is highly underdeveloped with ALOT of room to grow where it will matter most for him - in his core. With proper nutrition and a real full time strength and conditioning program, think about whaty he will grow into. He has a huge bubble, but underdeveloped upper body (his bench press actually reflects this, there is room to grow there). His hand technique is already highly developed and a considered a plus. He shows he knows how to play Low in those videos, but his lack of strength hurts him.

To help him grow, we are puting him under the tutilidge of what may be considered the premiere DL coach. Quinn wanted him for a reason. This guy is going to fit in in a major way. Look at late tape - I'm totally jazzed about this pick - I fully expect that they pack at least another 10 to 15 pounds of muscle on his frame.

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Last edited by Uberman on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:54 pm 
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12 tackles and 2 sacks in a game vs an Wisconsion O-Line is not to shabby.

Not sure what he projects to in the future on our line, but could see big role for him this season being coming in for Mebane in Nickel packages and obvious passing downs.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:10 pm 
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I actually don't get what Kearly's talking about with the arms...he actually has pretty strangely long arms for a DT his size, 33 1/2 inches.

To compare, that's as long as a guy like Sly Williams, while longer than Hankins, Brandon Williams, or Montori Hughes. Only a tenth of an inch smaller than Lotulelei and a half inch smaller than John Jenkins. Not to mention, he has the longest arms of any DT this year of his height (though there aren't many with his height so it's not saying a ton).

He can get stronger in his upper body, that's my biggest thing with him. That and learning to anchor more consistently, though if you want him as a 3-tech that's less of a big deal. If he does learn those things...well, I don't know a ton of scouts, so I'm not going to pretend to be "in the know," but I take a big interest in DTs, so I ask about them a lot. Of the few I've talked to, when I asked which late round DT they thought had the most Geno Atkins-like upside, two said Hill without question. I don't think he's on that level, but I definitely look forward to seeing what he does.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:53 pm 
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I see a guy who stunts well and has great mobility. He has great hands to disengage. He was everywhere. I like
this pic. Wow! I am sure because of his build he will draw comparisons to Darby. In my opinion this guy is more agile and energetic.

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Last edited by Atradees on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Might just be the Kool-Aid, but I trust PC and JS. Excited to see Hill in action

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:08 pm 
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I agree with kearly, i like all the reaches that have worked out for the seahakws in the past 3 years. Im also against all the reaches that havent worked out, that sounds good right. I dont like ahtletic defensive tackles with all the physical tools neccasary to play in the nfl.I dont like drafting defensive tackles that dominated nfl caliber talent in college. I dont like drafting players in the 3rd round with 1st round production, what was our gm thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:41 pm 
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We'll see how it goes, I think it's great we have analyst here who study film and have opinions, I think JS has reached on some guys in the past and while a lot have panned out, some have not. I think he's earned the right to let these guys compete -- I'm not so worried about "Who we could have had" I'm more concerned with how well is the guy we took going to produce.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:52 pm 
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I echo Falcon Moore on what others are saying about Hill. Danny Kelly re-tweeted an opinion one of the Bengals bloggers had to say about Hill

Quote:
Danny Kelly ‏@FieldGulls 1h
Whoa RT@JoeGoodberry: Everyone always comparing mid round DTs to Geno Atkins, but Hill is the first DT that actually warranted it from me.


Knowing what I do about our FO over the past few years, I give them the benefit of the doubt. They are not infallible but if they come close to what others are saying, I won't complain.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:57 pm 
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He has some of the most unique highlights I've seen from the DTs. He moves like a LB, very natural in space, and is very hard to cut. I definitely think Hill fits in with Pete's motto of 'tell me what you can do, not what you can't.' He's a slasher and gets up-field. I'm going to have a lot of fun seeing how the Hawks use him. Like Pete and John said today in their presser, he's very different than their other interior d-lineman.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Falcan Moore, thanks for your post! Great insight.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:20 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Jordan Hill conference call from .com

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... fb8b966995


"I love to compete" and he emphasized the PETE. Winner.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Falcan Moore wrote:
Opposing fan here, Falcons myself...as you might've guessed, I'm a gigantic fan of Hill's, so I thought I'd give you guys something to be happy about in regards to him. Actually compares pretty well to Mebane in a lot of ways, but he's quicker, and his skillset is really special for the position he's playing. As to getting him in the fourth or fifth - that was a pipe dream. Some teams gave him second round grades, according to Hill, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would lie about that.



That first guy he beats is Chance Warmack. He beats several other top 10 OL prospects throughout the video, so you know he's faced NFL caliber talent - heck, his best games have come against bigger guys because he gets under their pads better than with an agile player.

Highlights don't tell the whole story, but more often than not they do with Hill. Penn State have fielded a great run defense ever since he's been there, and the way he continued to produce (even more) without Still shows he can do it by himself. Often double teamed, even at his size. Leverage is some of the best of any DT in the draft, as is his hand usage, and he's very quick and strong, all things considered. He isn't going to be the type of guy who collapses a pocket, but if you're looking for a great pass rushing one gap NT, he's perfect for that role.

An interesting quote that sums up just how good he is in terms of underused statistics:

Quote:
While big names like Sharif Floyd and Star Lotulelei dominate the discussion about defensive tackles, Jordan Hill deserves to be discussed based on his stats alone. As a pass rushing DT, Hill grades out with a Snaps Per Pressure (SPP) of 13.3, which makes him the most efficient pass rusher of the DTs (slightly ahead of Sheldon Richardson) and more efficient than some pass rushing DEs like Datone Jones. Hill also had the most combined tackles in the backfield and 1-2 yards from the LOS (25 tackles), more than any defensive tackle. Based on these metrics alone, Hill should be considered solid all-around DT to be picked earlier than the 4th-5th round he’s projected in.


He'd visited Atlanta so I was hoping we could get him...congrats guys, you got a steal. You'll see a couple years from now, maybe even this year. Fantastic player.

Looking forward to meeting you again this year.


Wonderful post.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Huge Penn st fan Jordan Hill is good real good very happy with this pick. He was a beast at state hope he keeps it up. I love this pick.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Falcan Moore wrote:
I actually don't get what Kearly's talking about with the arms...he actually has pretty strangely long arms for a DT his size, 33 1/2 inches.

To compare, that's as long as a guy like Sly Williams, while longer than Hankins, Brandon Williams, or Montori Hughes. Only a tenth of an inch smaller than Lotulelei and a half inch smaller than John Jenkins. Not to mention, he has the longest arms of any DT this year of his height (though there aren't many with his height so it's not saying a ton).

He can get stronger in his upper body, that's my biggest thing with him. That and learning to anchor more consistently, though if you want him as a 3-tech that's less of a big deal. If he does learn those things...well, I don't know a ton of scouts, so I'm not going to pretend to be "in the know," but I take a big interest in DTs, so I ask about them a lot. Of the few I've talked to, when I asked which late round DT they thought had the most Geno Atkins-like upside, two said Hill without question. I don't think he's on that level, but I definitely look forward to seeing what he does.


Well, I wrote that before the arm measurements were out, and didn't exactly say he had short arms, just said he didn't have visibly long arms. I never thought arm length was a problem for him, my issue came with how he only controls gaps and struggles to get past blockers. He lacks strength of all 3 varieties (upper, lower, core), and that makes him more of a finesse controller with high effort and quickness than a beast type.

I like Jordan Hill, and I think in a normal year I'd call it a great pick. But in the 2013 draft which is insanely deep, I'm pretty sure we could have had him much later in the draft, and there were several other DTs with much higher upside, IMO. He was a solid pick in a draft where I'll expect solid picks in the 6th and 7th rounds.

Side note- I don't think there is a Geno Atkins this year. Atkins ran a 4.75 forty at the combine. Datone Jones was the only true DT this year who came close, with a 4.80 (Hill was a 5.17 at the combine, and a 5.03 at his pro-day). Atkins was a special athlete with monster upside but was overlooked because he lacked production. I think Hill is more comparable to someone like Stephen Paea with less strength and run defense.

Again, I'm not a Hill hater. Hell, I was touting him as a hidden gem in the draft for a couple months. Back in January I was railing hard against the "DT or Bust" crowd with our 1st round pick, pointing to Jordan Hill specifically and saying "we can get this guy later and he's 90% as good." My opinion of Hill has cooled slightly since then, but I get the enthusiasm. Believe me, I do.

I'm just giving the fairest evaluation I possibly can. He's not a bad prospect, but I would have waited at least two rounds later before taking him, personally.


Last edited by kearly on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:59 pm 
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I'm sure we'll get the down low on this guy in the next RRR. Although, the opinion might be a bit biased! But, it will also be worth hearing what Mike Rob has to say about this kid, Rob is generally a really honest guy.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Pete Carroll wants to get after the QB.

Hill looks like he will be overpowered by double teams in the run game, but his use of his hands to disengage and his closing speed appear top notch.

This guy is an interior pass rusher. He will be a niche player that will come in on packages dictated by down and distance.

Think of how the Colts built their defense around Manning. They could get beat by the running game, but most of the time they were playing with a lead and consistently put the pressure on.

Carroll is adding players for that scenario. Seattle mitigates the late comebacks by Atlanta, Miami, and Detroit with interior rushers like Hill.
His closing speed is what got their attention.

The bottom line is that when Russell Wilson gets you that late game lead, you need guys like Hill pressuring from the inside to seal the deal. The opponents ability to overpower him with the run game is of little concern under such circumstances.

I really like the pick and I think Hill contributes well within his niche. The Niner's O-line/Gore will wallop him with the run game in the first half, but if Seattle has a two score lead, Hill will be a pain in their backside in the second half. I expect that Carroll will put him in a position to succeed.


Last edited by Mick063 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:15 pm 
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The Seahawks had Hill (supposedly, **wink-wink**) as a player they were considering to pick in the 2nd round, along with Michael. So whether we personally agree with picking Hill in the 3rd or 5th round, they spent a few months thinking about this player and had assigned him a much higher value to the organization.

If we are to believe that Dan Quinn knows his stuff, then to me just like the Irvin pick, I am going to wait to see what they saw in the player.

EDIT: Nice post Mick063

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:19 pm 
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kearly wrote:
I would have waited at least two rounds later before taking him, personally.


If JS made a pick that someone didn't feel was a reach, I would start to worry.

He's making his name off of guys that everyone feels "meh" about. Williams was supposed to be better than Okung. Lynch was a thug only worth a 4th round pick. Sherman was a converted WR and Browner was too big to player corner.

I had a pretty good laugh today with Sando's blog about how predictable the Niner's draft is. He said it is because the FO has been around a few years and we can see their trends. I don't know if there is a person on this planet that can predict what our FO is gonna do next and I love that about them.

As for Hill himself, I think you have to look at him in a bubble. Where does he really fit in the d line? He's unlikely to start and he's more of a pass rusher more than a run stuffer. So he's likely going to be in a crazy pass rush package that we come up with. If his game is all about effort, than our secondary should allow him to put that to good use to create pressure.

As for the elite skills versus effort thing, some of our best players are effort/intangible guys. You don't have to look any further than our starting RB. He does not have elite speed or cutting ability. He just has heart and determination.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:20 pm 
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:sarcasm_on: He doesnt have a grill or rock dreads so I don't like the pick. :sarcasm_off:


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Mick063 wrote:
Hill looks like he will be overpowered by double teams in the run game, but his use of his hands to disengage and his closing speed appear top notch.


Most guys get overpowered by double teams. It takes a strange freak of nature to battle two NFL-caliber guys and come out on top. If he's a great interior pass rusher with great closing speed, then he's the right pick for this organization.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Mick063 wrote:
Hill looks like he will be overpowered by double teams in the run game, but his use of his hands to disengage and his closing speed appear top notch.


Most guys get overpowered by double teams. It takes a strange freak of nature to battle two NFL-caliber guys and come out on top. If he's a great interior pass rusher with great closing speed, then he's the right pick for this organization.


I'm not going to disagree with you, but some players hold up better than others. Sometimes an interior lineman just needs to anchor a 3 foot area for an extra half second so the mike linebacker can make a play. A guy like the Raven's nose tackle can anchor a spot long enough to be effective. Perhaps they all get beat by double teams. Some get beat a little worse.

I don't expect Carroll will put Hill in that position. Carroll will put Hill in a position to succeed.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:00 am 
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amill87 wrote:
kearly wrote:
I would have waited at least two rounds later before taking him, personally.




I had a pretty good laugh today with Sando's blog about how predictable the Niner's draft is. He said it is because the FO has been around a few years and we can see their trends. I don't know if there is a person on this planet that can predict what our FO is gonna do next and I love that about them.

.


Just for the record and for fun, Kearly did hit on the Michael pick, and I myself has advocated Jordan Hill selection throughout the draft process mocking him to the Seahawks between the 2nd - 4th rounds. But Hill was the guy that I wanted, my one constant, I wanted him in Seahawk blue, much like I wanted Mebane, as well as, Bryant in Seahawks blue in their respective draft classes.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:08 am 
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I dunno...I like the pick and don't feel it's a reach. I love how nimble and slippery this guys is. He won't physically dominate in the sense of bull rushing or collapsing the pocket, but the dude is quick and slippery, and he gets behind the LOS quite regularly regardless of OL size. That could be Kryptonite for big, corn-fed OLs like the Whiners. The guy has some unique skills that are hard to grade in traditional fashion when looking at DL players. Yeah, he won't totally dominate, but I think he's gonna be a head scratcher to protect against. If anyone can maximize his unique skillset, it's Quinn and PC.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Looks like our Justin Smith equivalent I like it!

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:46 pm 
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He's underated i think he'll be a good player for us. Pete and John have a track record of identifying players that are better than there draft grade .


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:58 pm 
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He fits as a back-up for Red Bryant and Mebane and can rotate anywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:42 am 
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Kearly knows his stuff and I respect his opinion. There's a contradiction here though. The guy kicked butt on Wisconsin. He kicked butt on some very good olinemen. I always say actions speak louder than words. And Quinn wanted him. I just don't think this guy's a reach. But hey, that's the fun of preseason, seeing who pans out and who doesn't. It's a crap shoot and the Hawks have shown they're better than most at crap shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:13 am 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Looks like our Justin Smith equivalent I like it!


LOL, no, Justin is a pocket collapser and run plugger who can occupy double teams. He doesn't rely on slipping by people, but instead dominates with power and brute strength. Very stout at the point of attack. Entirely different athlete.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:38 am 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Looks like our Justin Smith equivalent I like it!


Might be a stretch to compare him to the best all around DE in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:36 am 
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My favourite pick of the draft. Anyone who's compared to Geno Atkins excites me - he's almost the exact same height and weight as Geno and he looks like he can easily add more bulk up top. I don't know a whole lot about him but if he was nursing an injury at combine then his measurables can be even better when fully healthy.

Looking at those game highlights, he seems to have a knack for sliding around and making plays. Wasn't Geno Atkins's crutch that he didn't produce as much as he should in college? I think Hill could be the same sort of steal. If he is, then we've just found the last piece of a championship defense.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:58 am 
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I really like Hill to develop as a inside penetrating guy we don't really have. I think he could become Henry Melton.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:24 am 
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Getting to know your pick. Here is an article on Jordan Hill containing video of him talking about being picked, another of his mom on the day of the draft, a party at his home town the next day celebrating his selection and a slideshow with friends/family after they ran out and got Seahawks gear to wear to his celebration party.

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2013/04/steelton_proud_penn_state_stan.html

They originally thought he was going to go in the 3rd round to Dallas with one of the Cowboys 2 picks.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:49 am 
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drdiags wrote:
Getting to know your pick. Here is an article on Jordan Hill containing video of him talking about being picked, another of his mom on the day of the draft, a party at his home town the next day celebrating his selection and a slideshow with friends/family after they ran out and got Seahawks gear to wear to his celebration party.

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2013/04/steelton_proud_penn_state_stan.html

They originally thought he was going to go in the 3rd round to Dallas with one of the Cowboys 2 picks.


Seems like a good kid. I hope he's one nasty SOB on the field though.

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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:37 am 
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Jordan Hill will be a stud tacking machine in a Seahawks uniform for a long time. Love the never say die motor on this guy.

There's a reason why they picked this guy to be a 3Tech runstopper before 'Jesse the Monstar'. And that right there says a lot. What I like most is that now that we have both, Hill will set the high energy tone, and also bring out the best in Jesse Williams' longevity, by saving him some wear and tear on the knees from too many double teams like at 'Bama.


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 Post subject: Re: At 87 Seattle selects Jordan Hill, DT, Penn St.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:09 am 
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Hill was elite vs Wisconsin. You can really see it from the 2:00 minute mark forward. His bullrush, swim and rip moves are very effective and he got his way against bigger opponents.



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