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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Restructure should not be an option. All that does is push around money and put you in cap hell sooner. Look at the Stealers.

Rice would need to take a pay cut and Tate would need to give us a hometown discount in order for both to stay.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Happypuppy wrote:
Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.

Tate is not Harvin's backup. They are two completely different WRs. And Tate>>>Baldwin. Tate is an outside WR, period.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Barthawk wrote:
Tate signed a 5yr deal? I thought he was a 4yr deal with this being his 4th year.. hmmm


As far as I know he did sign a 4 year deal, and this is his final year under that original contract.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Tate is getting better every year, it is easy to see, AND he is Tough and becoming a way better blocker, pretty valuable guy and has the Y.A.C. and S.T. factor as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:34 pm 
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I really don't know why would you cut someone that's 26 (barely in their prime), who performed very well last year after dual shoulder surgeries, with a rookie quarterback. This team is much, much better with Rice. He routinely makes incredible catches, and built good chemistry with Wilson last year. Having more than a weapon or two at wide receiver is pretty important. I don't think saving a few million bucks, when the team is already under the cap, is a good reason to lesson your chances of winning a super bowl.

I don't think Rice is going anywhere. Whether or not the Hawks draft a WR today. Bates, Kearse and the rest of the guys competing for WR5 certainly need to be concerned.

Tate's salary isn't even a blip for this season. His status beyond this season is question mark, certainly. But that's another conversation, after the 2013 season.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:39 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.


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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:57 pm 
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DavidSeven wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.


True, but you still need that other outside receiver. We have Rice outside and Harvin as a slot guy, we'd still need to keep a starting capable wide out. Baldwin doesn't fit that bill like Tate does. We may only have to pay Baldwin $1.5 million as a RFA, but we could fill his position as a backup from the draft for a million less.

Looking through the players under contract next season, there are really only 2 players whose contracts we absolutely cannot cut due to dead money and that is Harvin and Irvin. Anyone else, is fair game for cutting, reworking or anything else they may want to do to keep us within the numbers.

We also have currently about $4.5 million under the cap which we could use to get Tate signed to an extension and keep the cap number fairly decent the next two seasons, or we could roll that money over and use it to sign guys next year (tate included). So it's still too early to really call

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:22 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
DavidSeven wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.


True, but you still need that other outside receiver. We have Rice outside and Harvin as a slot guy, we'd still need to keep a starting capable wide out. Baldwin doesn't fit that bill like Tate does. We may only have to pay Baldwin $1.5 million as a RFA, but we could fill his position as a backup from the draft for a million less.

Looking through the players under contract next season, there are really only 2 players whose contracts we absolutely cannot cut due to dead money and that is Harvin and Irvin. Anyone else, is fair game for cutting, reworking or anything else they may want to do to keep us within the numbers. With or without an extra $1 million, I think we'll have to get pretty creative to retain both Tate and Rice as our outside receivers.

We also have currently about $4.5 million under the cap which we could use to get Tate signed to an extension and keep the cap number fairly decent the next two seasons, or we could roll that money over and use it to sign guys next year (tate included). So it's still too early to really call


Yeah, I agree. I would just be surprised if they thought $1.5 million (or even $2 million @ a 2nd round tender) was too much to spend on Baldwin. Of course, I'm one of those guys who thinks Baldwin's pretty underrated. Like you said, though, it's still way too early for this kind of speculation. Tate's value to both Seattle and other teams will vary hugely depending on how he performs in 2013.


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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Happypuppy wrote:
Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.


I look at it as almost the complete opposite. Unless Tate has a monster year, which makes his potential new contract too expensive to afford, he will be back on a reasonable 4 or so year deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
They are two completely different WRs.


Disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Agree with Kidhawk. This is too early to tell.

I also wish everyone would quit prognosticating Miller being a cap casualty. He has less than half of his salaray cap hit next year from this year. We get him at least for 2 more years on a reasonable deal.

Baldwin has show flashes, but he's too injury prone. He won't command much money.

Tate is the big question mark. He's kinda like Harvin without the blazing speed, and better agility. He has elite short area agility and quickness, and is easily as elusive as Harvin, if not more so. He also highpoints the ball better than Harvin, making him a better fit outside. He's the one that's going to be really hard to call what happens to.


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