Football Outsiders offensive line continuity scores

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  • You can guess where we rank. This isn't a list of the best or worst offensive lines, it's a list of how cohesive each O-line unit in the NFL is, because there's typically a considerable correlation between how good an O-line is and how much time the same guys on it play together.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra- ... ity-scores

    We're 3rd-worst in the league, lol. A revolving door of personnel for our O-line, both this year and last year. Man, it'd be nice to see the same 5 guys there all year long...However, we did actually rank pretty well (3rd in run blocking, 20th in pass pro) considering the changes our O-line went through.
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  • Our pass protection is pretty crappy most of the time, but Russell has the wheels to make it work. I would like to see him get more time in the pocket this season as that is an area on which we can stand to improve greatly.
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  • I think its more continuity than talent. And, I think the Hawks line is better at pass protection than they get credit for. Especially when the unit began gelling late last season.
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  • I love watching Wilson scramble, but I sorely wish he didn't have to do it as much; or at least have to resort to it as quickly.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:I love watching Wilson scramble, but I sorely wish he didn't have to do it as much; or at least have to resort to it as quickly.


    Same here. I hope the OL is a primary target in the draft.
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  • The Outfield wrote:Same here. I hope the OL is a primary target in the draft.


    I'd be giddy if we took a DT in round 2, and an OL in round 3.
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  • How much of the "poor line play" is due to the fact the Hawks QB isn't really throwing to spots, more WR's. And, he's instructed, the #1 priority is NOT turning it over. Each takes more time.

    I think the pass protection is railed on unnecessarily.
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  • Pe, seeing as how Football Outsiders actually counts the time it takes each lineman to get pushed back, or how long until they push their opponent forward, or how long they stay matched up on the same spot, for every snap of every game...I'm gonna say it's fairly accurate.

    Our O-line has been a source of frustration for many years, though. If/when we ever get an elite line, we might be a bit behind in recognizing it. *shrug*
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  • pehawk wrote:I think its more continuity than talent. And, I think the Hawks line is better at pass protection than they get credit for. Especially when the unit began gelling late last season.

    Was it the 6 sacks we gave up vs the Rams, the constant pressure in the Skins game, or the horrendous pass blocking in the first half vs the Falcons that led you to that conclusion?
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  • Come on, Scotte. You can't count bad performances. They just get a bad rap for pass pro from people here because we're all idiots.

    :lol:
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    The Outfield wrote:Same here. I hope the OL is a primary target in the draft.


    I'd be giddy if we took a DT in round 2, and an OL in round 3.


    Me too. That would be awesome-- assuming that OLman doesn't turn out like Moffitt
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    pehawk wrote:I think its more continuity than talent. And, I think the Hawks line is better at pass protection than they get credit for. Especially when the unit began gelling late last season.

    Was it the 6 sacks we gave up vs the Rams, the constant pressure in the Skins game, or the horrendous pass blocking in the first half vs the Falcons that led you to that conclusion?


    The Skins blitz, and paid for that pressure. Rams are just good along the line, especially good when the gameplan for the Hawks offense is "don't show anything for the playoffs".
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  • pehawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    pehawk wrote:I think its more continuity than talent. And, I think the Hawks line is better at pass protection than they get credit for. Especially when the unit began gelling late last season.

    Was it the 6 sacks we gave up vs the Rams, the constant pressure in the Skins game, or the horrendous pass blocking in the first half vs the Falcons that led you to that conclusion?


    The Skins blitz, and paid for that pressure. Rams are just good along the line, especially good when the gameplan for the Hawks offense is "don't show anything for the playoffs".

    Breno can't handle Long, our RG situation was a mess. If Russell isn't Russell, that 20th number is closer to 30th, plain and simple.
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  • Breno can't handle Long, but I bet it wouldn't be as glaring if the Hawks offense didn't roll into that game with a Thomas Kinkade gameplan.

    I thought the line started really getting better towards the end of the year. It could still improve. But, with Pete and Wilson, the plays will always require more time than most.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Breno can't handle Long, our RG situation was a mess. If Russell isn't Russell, that 20th number is closer to 30th, plain and simple.

    +1

    @Pe: They got quite a bit better in run blocking. Pass pro...Marginal improvement at best, maybe. I think it had more to do with Russell improving than our line.
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  • Sweezy was still getting blown up in pass protection through the final playoff game. I'm still more comfortable with Moffitt in that spot, even if he gives you a little less in run blocking. I would be interested to see a PFF comparison between the two players.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Breno can't handle Long, our RG situation was a mess. If Russell isn't Russell, that 20th number is closer to 30th, plain and simple.

    +1

    @Pe: They got quite a bit better in run blocking. Pass pro...Marginal improvement at best, maybe. I think it had more to do with Russell improving than our line.


    Roland/ Scotte;

    To what extent of improvement do you forsee for Moffitt and Sweezy? I'm kind of holding out hope that we've got enough talent & Bodies at Guard, (Carp, Sweezy, Moffitt & Rishaw) they just needed some time to develop. I've got to beleive that Sweezy will be vastly improved with a year under his belt and an offseason improving his technique. I could see Carp and Sweezy starting and being significant upgrades over the level of guard play in 2012. Which leads me to desire us drafting a tackle to compete with Breno and add depth. What say you? Is guard really that big of a need?
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  • Sweezy, I think, has considerable upside. Moffitt, I'm clueless on. I can't read the guy. He has flashes of brilliance, and flashes of "Man, he made Giacomini's bad days look good"; so, I don't know...Also, the way Moffitt jokes around in the M-Rob videos, I love his personality but it's hard not to wonder when he makes comments like "I don't know how I'm in the NFL, I have no skill" if he's serious about his job, or not.

    I think Sweezy might well be a long-term starter for us starting this year or next year, though. Just a hunch. You don't switch from DL to OL quickly, and he needs more experience. We'll see what Cable can do with him.

    Scotte can answer this better than I can, though.
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  • pehawk wrote:Breno can't handle Long, but I bet it wouldn't be as glaring if the Hawks offense didn't roll into that game with a Thomas Kinkade gameplan.

    I thought the line started really getting better towards the end of the year. It could still improve. But, with Pete and Wilson, the plays will always require more time than most.


    Russell likes to make that first deep read, so yeah, there is something to that. I am more disturbed by the number of bad beats our guys have where they give up pressure in less than 2 seconds.
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  • Okung, Carpenter, Unger, McQuistan, Someone not on the roster. I think that's a line that can do well. They just need to play together for a stretch.

    The Moffit/Sweezy carousel makes me want to pull my hair out. Mainly because Moffit IMO is much better than Sweezy and Moffits nothing to write home about.
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  • Moffitt is a big disappointment for me. He stood out as so nasty in college, and there hasn't been much of that. He is athletically pretty limited, in space he looks like he is doing a forklift imitation.

    Sweezy pass protects like he is playing defense. Lunges a lot. But he might be the most athletic guard in the league, and is pretty fun to watch in space run blocking. I hate predicting 2nd year improvement, but considering he never played OL before last year, he is the guy I would look to see make the biggest improvement from last year.

    I feel bad about wanting Breno replaced, I like his kick ass attitude so much. But simple logistics say he will be gone, we need his cash next year, and his deal is over after 2013. I lean towards a RT with the 58th pick.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Moffitt is a big disappointment for me. He stood out as so nasty in college, and there hasn't been much of that. He is athletically pretty limited, in space he looks like he is doing a forklift imitation.

    Sweezy pass protects like he is playing defense. Lunges a lot. But he might be the most athletic guard in the league, and is pretty fun to watch in space run blocking. I hate predicting 2nd year improvement, but considering he never played OL before last year, he is the guy I would look to see make the biggest improvement from last year.

    I feel bad about wanting Breno replaced, I like his kick ass attitude so much. But simple logistics say he will be gone, we need his cash next year, and his deal is over after 2013. I lean towards a RT with the 58th pick.


    If we could get a plug and play RT @ 58th. That would be awesome. I don't mind Breno, but I'd like to see a young buck push him this year. I think his spot is the most upgradeable.
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  • I still remember way too many plays in which Wilson had 10 whole seconds behind the LOS without even needing to scramble. A lot of the late-season pass pro issues were against secondary blitzes, which is difficult for any O-line to handle and which is a big gamble for the defense.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Moffitt is a big disappointment for me. He stood out as so nasty in college, and there hasn't been much of that. He is athletically pretty limited, in space he looks like he is doing a forklift imitation.

    Sweezy pass protects like he is playing defense. Lunges a lot. But he might be the most athletic guard in the league, and is pretty fun to watch in space run blocking. I hate predicting 2nd year improvement, but considering he never played OL before last year, he is the guy I would look to see make the biggest improvement from last year.

    I feel bad about wanting Breno replaced, I like his kick ass attitude so much. But simple logistics say he will be gone, we need his cash next year, and his deal is over after 2013. I lean towards a RT with the 58th pick.


    Made me LOL. :lol:
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:I still remember way too many plays in which Wilson had 10 whole seconds behind the LOS without even needing to scramble. A lot of the late-season pass pro issues were against secondary blitzes, which is difficult for any O-line to handle and which is a big gamble for the defense.


    Indeed the line really pulled together towards the end, and Wilson really struggled against the blitz right through until the Atlanta game where he discovered Miller will always be available
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Also, the way Moffitt jokes around in the M-Rob videos, I love his personality but it's hard not to wonder when he makes comments like "I don't know how I'm in the NFL, I have no skill" if he's serious about his job, or not.


    That's definitely not what he says and you're misunderstanding him.

    He says things like "just two pieces of **** made it to the league who should never be here" and "a guy like ME in the NFL".

    He's referring to the fact that he's a total loonball and doesn't fit the mould of what you'd expect of an NFL player.
    There's not a player on the team that doesn't think he's good enough to be in the NFL... confidence in your ability is the number 1 trait Pete Carroll looks for in his players.
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  • Wilson was simply amazing last season no doubt. I was so convinced we were doomed early last season due to Wilsons height and the sad state of our OL. At first I thought Wilson was getting lucky (which he did on a few occasions) but week after week he found a way. He is amazingly accuracte while he is mobile. I remember a few plays where he failed to see a wide open WR :shock: but that happens to all QB's occasionally. I'm in.

    I was worried teams would figure out that he has to roll out in order to see the field and start containing the edge and collapsing the pocket. And try they did but Wilson proved to be quick enough to escape and make something out of nothing. I remember Favre making risky plays (and Hass without as much success in his early years). At first I thought Turnover City would be making a return to Seattle but Wilson has proven to take care of his football. Smart :th2thumbs: That play where everyone thought it was busted and somehow Wilson found ex Duck Tuinei comes to mind.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Was it the 6 sacks we gave up vs the Rams, the constant pressure in the Skins game, or the horrendous pass blocking in the first half vs the Falcons that led you to that conclusion?


    Actually, I thought the pass pro against the Falcons was pretty good. The Rams and Skins, sure. Though the Rams were tied for #1 in sacks last year and the Skins were way up there too.

    Seattle's adjusted sack rate last year was middle of the pack. I think our problems came from being overly aggressive with JR Sweezy (though that will probably look wise with time) and the fact that Breno Giacomini is a bit of a hot and cold performer. McQuistan seemed to have a slightly down year too, though I thought he was an adequate starter instead of a slightly above average one like he was in 2011.
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  • :229031_shrug:

    We were still rebuilding coming into 2012, and the O-line was coming off significant injury problems from the end of 2011. And sure, they made a couple of questionable decisions concerning Sweezey and Moffit.

    I suspect we'll be rated much higher after 2013, knock on wood of course. If we don't lose 3 of 5 starters for significant numbers of games we'll be into the 30's on those scores, easily. Given Wilson's mobility and Beastmode's ability to run over, under, around and through people, we don't need the No 1 line on that stat, just a pretty good one.

    I'm sure we'll draft at least one O-lineman who probably won't start, and we'll have a spirited competition in camp. The 5 guys who end up starting in September will be fine IMHO. Plus, we'll have 4 or 5 pretty solid backups as well.
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  • It is a salary cap league - you can't have it all.

    With the QB in place and the explosive WRs and Rbs in our system we will simply live with spending less on the O-line....
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  • Thanks Roland. I was having a pretty good day until I looked at that. The one aspect of this team that scares the hell out of me. Just crossing my fingers and hoping #3 lives to see an o-line that can extend his career, not endanger it.
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  • I'm hoping they draft TWO o-lineman in the draft this year. This team flat out needs more depth on the O-Line, especially w/the injuries, and the fact that RW ran for his life last year.
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  • Too bad all those good tackles in this draft will be gone waaaayyy before we pick.

    Was watching a bit yesterday on NFLN, and M-Faulk was commenting about how this-years draft, being so top-heavy with o-lineman, has got to be frustrating for teams in need who aren't in an immediate position to take advantage. Something deep inside me is telling me that a trade to get up into a spot to grab one of those beasts isn't outside the realm of possibility.

    It's almost spooky that all our acquisitions so far have ZERO O-line implications. Given the Sweezy project and the fluidity of our guys swapping spots, the unrest of our line has got to be in the forefront of our draft-room workings.

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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I'm hoping they draft TWO o-lineman in the draft this year. This team flat out needs more depth on the O-Line, especially w/the injuries, and the fact that RW ran for his life last year.

    I think the line needs some work, but this a over dramatization of the issue. Wilson didn't run for his life. Tarvaris ran for his the first 8 games of 2011, for reference.
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  • In all honesty the key to getting the existing O-Line gelling will just be health. For the past two years it has been a revolving door of whoever is healthy is in. You have potentially 3-4 pro bowl caliber linemen in Unger, Okung, McQuistan and Carpenter, when they are healthy. Breno, Moffit, Sweezy and (?) might just need that extra bit of time, conditioning and training to step it up to the same level.

    Dave Kreig spent his whole career here waiting for an O-line that never came, and I doubt Pete is eager to repeat that mistake.
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  • Evil_Shenanigans wrote:Dave Kreig spent his whole career here waiting for an O-line that never came, and I doubt Pete is eager to repeat that mistake.


    Ahhh the good ol days. Steve Raible - "Kreig rolls out" pulls back for the pass, arm goes forward but where's the ball? Used to shoot a beer every time. Got pretty hammered during some of those games.

    I sure am thankful for Wilsons ball control.
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  • themunn wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:I still remember way too many plays in which Wilson had 10 whole seconds behind the LOS without even needing to scramble. A lot of the late-season pass pro issues were against secondary blitzes, which is difficult for any O-line to handle and which is a big gamble for the defense.


    Indeed the line really pulled together towards the end, and Wilson really struggled against the blitz right through until the Atlanta game where he discovered Miller will always be available


    ^^ This.
    Wilson had a lot of time on numerous occasions, but held, and held, and held the ball. I'm hoping that Percy Harvin gives him another reliably-open option, so DangerRuss isn't holding onto the ball so long. Yeah, once he figured out to look for Zack... he was lights-out.
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  • So, what did I tell you? First two players taken were tackles. Even a blind squirrel...

    OK, so I'm not going to sit by the TV all day to watch us trade up, cuz it's just not going to happen. Who wants to make a wager that our pick is an o-lineman though?
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  • olyfan63 wrote:
    themunn wrote:^^ This.
    Wilson had a lot of time on numerous occasions, but held, and held, and held the ball. I'm hoping that Percy Harvin gives him another reliably-open option, so DangerRuss isn't holding onto the ball so long. Yeah, once he figured out to look for Zack... he was lights-out.


    This is also tied to separation downfield. This is why we got Percy Harvin
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:Who wants to make a wager that our pick is an o-lineman though?

    I'll wager against you. I say DT. What are we wagering?

    mikeak wrote:This is also tied to separation downfield. This is why we got Percy Harvin

    Don't need separation with a big target that just goes up for it. :) I'd love to see Zach get 90 catches this year. Hell, I want Zach, Percy, Golden, Sidney, and Doug to all have 90+ catches this year. Set a new record for offense in the NFL. 8)
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