Pete and John had this figured out

warden

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One GM made this comment

One NFL general manager labels this draft as the worst draft in 10-12 years, Mike Freeman of CBS Sports reports.

"When we look back at this draft in five or 10 years," said the team executive, "we might view it as one of the worst we've seen in some time."

Few team personnel want to say anything publicly about the paucity of talent out of fear of hearing from the NFL. There's this thought process that if you criticize the draft, you risk the ire of the NFL; the league doesn't want anyone publicly criticizing the draft out of fear of injuring television ratings.

The problem with this draft, says the general manager, is it possibly lacks two important qualities: franchise quarterbacks and large swaths of impact players. There will be more than a few solid players, this GM predicts, but not a large number of great ones.

"There will be 13-15 players picked in the first round that are true first-rounders," he said. "That's a fairly low number."

Last year, according to the general manager, there were 20-23 players who were true first-rounders. That's about average.


What did the Seahawks do (a team who values draft picks more then anything) ? They trade their first round pick for a young player who has the wow factor. These two were all over the fact that it was a weak group of players in the first round. Once again we get the most value.
 

Rat

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They made the trade because an elite playmaker who is only 24 was available, which pretty much never happens. I doubt it had anything to do with the strength of the draft.

I disagree that this is a weak draft overall. It's only a weak draft for QB needy teams picking near the top.
 

pehawk

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Most times I assume any anonymous GM quoted IS JS. He has a very friendly and open relationship with a lot of the NFL guys. I know that’s not true all the time, but sometimes?

Prove me wrong.
 

taz291819

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I agree, this draft is kind of weak. The biggest thing I'm waiting to see is where Lattimore falls to.

I'd even be willing to trade our 2nd and 3rd for an extra 1st next year, in order to double-up and draft Clowney.
 

chihawk

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warden":3rbcrs68 said:
One GM made this comment

Last year, according to the general manager, there were 20-23 players who were true first-rounders. That's about average.

Anyone else feel this is a weird statement? What is this guys criteria for being a "true" first-rounder? There are 32 picks in the first round, so shouldn't an average year have about 32 "true" first-rounders....a less than average year has less than 32 first rounders and an excellent year has 32 first rounders....or do you have to be a top half of the first round talent to be a "true" first-rounder?
 

dontbelikethat

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chihawk":2a7d95xp said:
warden":2a7d95xp said:
One GM made this comment

Last year, according to the general manager, there were 20-23 players who were true first-rounders. That's about average.

Anyone else feel this is a weird statement? What is this guys criteria for being a "true" first-rounder? There are 32 picks in the first round, so shouldn't an average year have about 32 "true" first-rounders....a less than average year has less than 32 first rounders and an excellent year has 32 first rounders....or do you have to be a top half of the first round talent to be a "true" first-rounder?


I get what you're saying, but what I think the GM was trying to say was "based on talent, only 20-23 players deserved to be in the first round". There's always those players who get "reached" for that may not deserve to be in the first round.
 

AbsolutNET

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Getting Harvin for the 25th pick, especially in this draft, is a complete steal. Incredible value looking ahead.
 

therealjohncarlson

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dontbelikethat":on3b573i said:
I get what you're saying, but what I think the GM was trying to say was "based on talent, only 20-23 players deserved to be in the first round". There's always those players who get "reached" for that may not deserve to be in the first round.

Actually, if you think about it further, his statement really doesn't make sense and is just based on some arbitrary grading system. If there are only 20-23 players who "deserve" to be in the first round, then what does that make the other 10 or so first round draft picks in the first round? Does that mean every pick in the lower part of the first round can only get you at best "second round value?"

But here we have a logical fallacy. If the term "first round value" is indeed only based on where certain players should be drafted, how can you not at least fill up the whole first round with players that should be drafted there? More simply, how can only 20-23 players be called first round value when there are 32 picks in that round?
 

v1rotv2

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Here's what I get out of this. This GM says this about the draft but he is probably looking at the draft talent in the usual NFL talent evaluator light. But my guess is that if you look at this year's talent in the way JS and PC does there are some very good players to be had. Of course we won't know right away but by the time the season ends JS/PC will be proven right.
 

Stoned Cold

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I think it is a bad draft. Kevin Colbert said he only views 6-8 draft picks as special. Their may be "pretty good" players in the draft after the top 20 but it doesn't sound like potential is available after 20 and past the 3rd round. When I hear how most teams want to trade back it just seems like after 10-20 most teams want to accumulate picks so they have a better chance at finding anything worth keeping. Forget the lack of top flight QB's and RB's....teams seem unwilling to even want to gamble on prospects like we did with Irvin. I think the Redskins and Seahawks did very well getting out of the 1st round since most teams seem to want to trade back.

I guess we'll see in a few years but I'm glad we aren't picking 25 and got Harvin, and I'm sure the Redskins are glad they got RG3 instead of a late 1st this year.
 

JSeahawks

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I think its a really, solid deep draft. Lots of good NFL players are going to come out of it. Its just not top heavy with elite talent.
 

scutterhawk

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therealjohncarlson":13udodgs said:
dontbelikethat":13udodgs said:
I get what you're saying, but what I think the GM was trying to say was "based on talent, only 20-23 players deserved to be in the first round". There's always those players who get "reached" for that may not deserve to be in the first round.

Actually, if you think about it further, his statement really doesn't make sense and is just based on some arbitrary grading system. If there are only 20-23 players who "deserve" to be in the first round, then what does that make the other 10 or so first round draft picks in the first round? Does that mean every pick in the lower part of the first round can only get you at best "second round value?"

But here we have a logical fallacy. If the term "first round value" is indeed only based on where certain players should be drafted, how can you not at least fill up the whole first round with players that should be drafted there? More simply, how can only 20-23 players be called first round value when there are 32 picks in that round?
Aaron Curry wasn't a true first round talent, although he was projected by many as a safe bet.
Nearly all first rounders are a gamble, and while the odds favor the top 18 to 24, there are usually players that don't get a lot of recognition, because most of the talking heads are up to their arm pits in hyping players that the media have doted on for several months.
Chuck Gruden is a prime example of a guy that doesn't get caught up in the media "fooferahrah", and I respect a guy that takes the time to talk to and asks questions of a player and avoids jumping on a hype wagon.
Just because almost everyone has a first round draft pick, doesn't mean that all the players that are projected to go in round one are legit first rounders.
 

mikeak

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Q) hey should we trade the first round pick for Percy?

A) well let's see the draft will be a dud so where we normally get a possible star we would this year get what we can get in 2nd & 3rd round. Also we are picking late...

Of course strength if draft packed the decision. One of many factors

Secondly. How many duds are there every year in the first round? Apparently 10 that is the point in the statement. Curry, K. Robinson, Jamarcus, Leaf etc
 

Recon_Hawk

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I'm guessing he's not counting offensive linemen as "impact players", but ask any Seahawk fan what it was like after Walter Jones and before Okung, and they would say that offensive linemen (or lack thereof) can make a HUGE impact.
 

two dog

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Pete and Jon's clairvoyance aside, the statement by the GM was absurd. He has no earthly way of knowing
how many of this draft class will excel. Some will certainly be players he does not deem first round worthy.

There will be players who were drafted in the lower rounds who will be starting this year, some may even
make a difference. There will be undrafted players playing as key backups and some as starters by the
2014 season. How do I know? I don't, same as him.

There are some brilliant General managers in the league. Ozzie Newsome, Mike Sherman, our own Jon
Schneider, others. There are also some who are..well, not so brilliant. Owners who run teams, whether
officially or not and I'll never understand how Mike Lombardi scored his gig in Cleveland.

Whatever happened to the mantra of judging a draft class three years out?
 

kearly

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pehawk":v0au7fmd said:
Most times I assume any anonymous GM quoted IS JS. He has a very friendly and open relationship with a lot of the NFL guys. I know that’s not true all the time, but sometimes?

Prove me wrong.

The GM being quoted sounds like an idiot to me. So probably not. Bill Polian said very nearly the exact same thing yesterday. He said normally there are 18-22 first round picks and this year there are 10-15. Bill Polian, btw, is an idiot.

I disagree about the strength of the first round. 2013 is extremely similar to the 2009 group: over-rated and bust laden at the top but extremely strong in the latter half. The 2009 1st round produced a host of pro-bowlers and several nationally famous starters that haven't made the pro-bowl yet. It did suck royally for the first 13 picks though. The 2009 draft was ripped beforehand too, but ended up being very good in retrospect. 2005 was a similar story, too.

Ask Green Bay what they thought of those drafts. They picked late both years and walked out with Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews.

Additionally, the middle rounds this year are the deepest and best I've ever seen (Todd McShay and Mike Mayock have made similar comments). That alone would make the 2013 draft a fantastic draft even if the 1st round was weak, which I don't think it is.

The GM being quoted sounds pretty clueless to me. He puts far too much stake in a 1st round pick. Seattle has drafted fairly well in the 1st round under PC/JS, but it's only a very small part of what made the Seahawks a great team.

I also disagree about the number of 1st round talents this year. A lot of the guys with 2nd round labels are going to make future pro-bowls. I'm guessing they don't have a 1st round grade on Tyler Eifert for example, and Eifert is the best prospect at TE I've seen in a few years (without the benefit of hindsight). Do they have DeAndre Hopkins as a 1st round talent? He's going to be another Roddy White. Come to think of it, White probably didn't have a first round grade himself given that he was a late 1st.

Alex Okafor kicks the crap out of Nick Perry as a prospect, yet Nick Perry drew applause as a late 1st round pick last year while Okafor could easily fall into the 3rd or 4th round in 2013. So while I think it's partially true that the top of this draft lacks starpower at certain positions, the "2nd tier" of this draft is one of the best in it's history, and that means we'll see a sensational late 1st round and we'll see an unusually high number of great picks in the round 2-4 range (in hindsight).

Bookit1
 

JesterHawk

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JSeahawks":8ufn1n1i said:
I think its a really, solid deep draft. Lots of good NFL players are going to come out of it. Its just not top heavy with elite talent.

Must be a lot of ducks in the draft, eh? ;)
 

themunn

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pehawk":w8p8vd4j said:
Most times I assume any anonymous GM quoted IS JS. He has a very friendly and open relationship with a lot of the NFL guys. I know that’s not true all the time, but sometimes?

Prove me wrong.

Schneider would never say something like there's only 15 true first-rounders in the draft, he's probably found that many that will be available in the 5th round.

Also, it'd have to be a spectacularly bad draft to be worse than 2009
 

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