SmokinHawk wrote:The nature of Jseahawks' opinion becomes a little clearer when you understand that he's an Oregon U homer, and Walter Thurmond III is an Oregon U alumnus. For the record, I agree with you in that he's yet to truly prove himself for any reasonable length of time. Any player can look awesome when their sample size is about 5 minutes of film.

Ah, I forgot that Jseahawks was all about the O.

I bet the Raiders watched those 5 minutes closely, and are strongly considering sending us 2 future draft picks for him.

SmokinHawk wrote:The nature of Jseahawks' opinion becomes a little clearer when you understand that he's an Oregon U homer, and Walter Thurmond III is an Oregon U alumnus. For the record, I agree with you in that he's yet to truly prove himself for any reasonable length of time. Any player can look awesome when their sample size is about 5 minutes of film.

That's fine, and I understand taking what I say about Ducks with a grain of salt, but also please understand that I love the Seahawks 10 x's more then i love my Ducks. I'd be perfectly fine with Seattle never having another Oregon player on their roster as long as they have somebody better. And when I share my opinion on former Duck players its based on how they could help Seattle or not, not based on the fact that they were once Ducks. (For example, I thought Max Unger was never going to be a very good center. I would have been perfectly fine with the Seahawks getting rid of him after his first couple of year. I'm glad to have been wrong on that one.)

For the recorrd, i've been pro signing Winfield from the start. I'm just saying I think Thurmond can beat him out in camp making Winfield our 4th corner, rather than our 3rd.

To borrow a line from my boy Patrice, RIP...

Walter Thurmond Tres is a legend around these parts. And when I say legend I mean a myth... Like the Lochness Monster or Big Foot. We all believe they exist, but who ever really saw it?

I would love this signing. It would also allow us to keep Thurmond, who can play when he's on the field, and maybe let him heal/give him a timeshare at that slot corner position.

I like Lane quite a bit, but he's much better on the outside than the inside.

I wanted Winfield in '99 coming out of Ohio State, but no, Holmgren in his fledgling years of playing GM went for "need" and drafted Lamar King, from Nawgunna Playlong St. We selected King with the 22nd pick, the Vikings took Winfield with the 23rd. 14 years later and we have an opportunity to right that wrong.

HagFaithful wrote:I wanted Winfield in '99 coming out of Ohio State, but no, Holmgren in his fledgling years of playing GM went for "need" and drafted Lamar King, from Nawgunna Playlong St. We selected King with the 22nd pick, the Vikings took Winfield with the 23rd. 14 years later and we have an opportunity to right that wrong.

Great post dude. Way to bring the knowledge! I hadn't even thought about this! What a truly awful decision.

One day I hope to start a 10 page thread on Lamar King. I wonder what he's up to at this very moment?

Oh man, I hope Winfield flies in to Seattle and doesn't want to leave. He would be a great addition. We would go from having a nickel defense that was more of a liability (slot corner, specifically) and all of the sudden it becomes a strength. As has been mentioned, Winfield has arguably been the best slot corner in the league for the past while, and although he is getting up there in age, he would be a solid addition.

Veteran leader that can pack a solid hit, and fits in nicely with the Legion of Boom. I wonder how the acquisition of Percy Harvin will effect Winfield's decision to come to Seattle, if at all.

Figures it rains its butt off when he visits

The Outfield wrote:Figures it rains its butt off when he visits

According to the reports above he's visiting on Wednesday. Supposed to be fairly nice with just a few showers.

JSeahawks wrote:

SmokinHawk wrote:The nature of Jseahawks' opinion becomes a little clearer when you understand that he's an Oregon U homer, and Walter Thurmond III is an Oregon U alumnus. For the record, I agree with you in that he's yet to truly prove himself for any reasonable length of time. Any player can look awesome when their sample size is about 5 minutes of film.

That's fine, and I understand taking what I say about Ducks with a grain of salt, but also please understand that I love the Seahawks 10 x's more then i love my Ducks. I'd be perfectly fine with Seattle never having another Oregon player on their roster as long as they have somebody better. And when I share my opinion on former Duck players its based on how they could help Seattle or not, not based on the fact that they were once Ducks. (For example, I thought Max Unger was never going to be a very good center. I would have been perfectly fine with the Seahawks getting rid of him after his first couple of year. I'm glad to have been wrong on that one.)

For the recorrd, i've been pro signing Winfield from the start. I'm just saying I think Thurmond can beat him out in camp making Winfield our 4th corner, rather than our 3rd.

I don't disagree that Thurmond has the ability to beat Winfield in camp, but given he's been in the league for three years and can't stay healthy, is it even worth the risk of giving him priority on the snaps in practice?

Pete's all about having a strong secondary. You know he won't add a player that would weaken that. It sounds like the guy could still compete and produce.

Perfect guy for JS&PC.

JSeahawks wrote:Alright. Since calling him our 2nd best cover cb is so asinine then there must be an obvious answer who is better. If not Thurmond who is our 2nd best cover man? Don't tell me Browner. Browner's a very good CB, much better all around then Thurmond. But its due to his physicality and beastlyness. Not due to his coverage ability.

J, you really think Thurmond is better in coverage than Browner? Was it Thurmond's zero career INT's that made you feel this way, or his two passes defensed in the last 16 games he's played in?

Stats source:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13473/walter-thurmond

I'm happy Thurmond is on the team, I still think he has a lot of potential. But Winfield could really help us.

camdawg wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Alright. Since calling him our 2nd best cover cb is so asinine then there must be an obvious answer who is better. If not Thurmond who is our 2nd best cover man? Don't tell me Browner. Browner's a very good CB, much better all around then Thurmond. But its due to his physicality and beastlyness. Not due to his coverage ability.

J, you really think Thurmond is better in coverage than Browner? Was it Thurmond's zero career INT's that made you feel this way, or his two passes defensed in the last 16 games he's played in?

Stats source:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13473/walter-thurmond

I'm happy Thurmond is on the team, I still think he has a lot of potential. But Winfield could really help us.

If you're covering your opponent so well that the QB is not likely to throw his way then you're not likely to get many passes defensed or interceptions.

IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

I hope this is more than a rumor. Winfield would be a great addition if he works out.

In a passing league, got to have a great secondary.

I would be on board with Winfield back there, could be a move like when the Saints got Sharper for their Superbowl season. Slot corner, can play outside in an emergency, maybe even allow earl to move around more in some packages or Kam to play pass-rusher more.

With strong run support from both Bam Bam and Winfield, I see a lot of nickle packages in our base defense.

Now just draft a big body DT with our 2nd round pick

Winfield would be an instant upgrade and the best possibly option IMO. the dude makes 100 tackles a year and didnt give a touchdown during the 2012 season .

For those wondering why Walter Thurmond , should just stop there because he just got hurt again.

Our 2 biggest killers last year were the slot corner's inability to cover and tackle (Winfield would be a plus here as he is one of the best tacklers there is), and our late season struggles against the run, something else Antoine is good at stopping.

Put him in Trufant's spot and limit his playing time throughout the season so that he can be a run-stopping monster late in the season when our defense struggles (if it does).

Antoine Winfield can be our Lawyer Milloy, elderly statesman that can still play at a high level but whose technique can rub off on the younger guys that are slated to replace him in 2014.

We also have to remember the further pusification of our game. New rules make it harder for the RB to lower his head and gain the couple of extra yards. This is becoming a pass only league.

JSeahawks wrote:

camdawg wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Alright. Since calling him our 2nd best cover cb is so asinine then there must be an obvious answer who is better. If not Thurmond who is our 2nd best cover man? Don't tell me Browner. Browner's a very good CB, much better all around then Thurmond. But its due to his physicality and beastlyness. Not due to his coverage ability.

J, you really think Thurmond is better in coverage than Browner? Was it Thurmond's zero career INT's that made you feel this way, or his two passes defensed in the last 16 games he's played in?

Stats source:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13473/walter-thurmond

I'm happy Thurmond is on the team, I still think he has a lot of potential. But Winfield could really help us.

If you're covering your opponent so well that the QB is not likely to throw his way then you're not likely to get many passes defensed or interceptions.

Now you are grasping at straws J You're telling me, that Thurmond is so good, they would rather throw to Shermans or ETS coverage instead?

sutz wrote:IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

Nope, Browner and Trufant were the starters until Trufant got hurt, Thurmond came in and got hurt, Sherman came in and the rest is history

Adrian Peterson would you please pick the white courtesy phone for a conference call from Seattle?

themunn wrote:

sutz wrote:IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

Nope, Browner and Trufant were the starters until Trufant got hurt, Thurmond came in and got hurt, Sherman came in and the rest is history

Can easily explain that by pointing out PC sometimes playing veterans while prepping rookies. It doesn't mean that Browner's coverage skills are superior to Thurmond's, because they're just not. Browner has his role, but he got burned all the time in ways that Thurmond, even in limited playing time, showed strength against.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:

themunn wrote:

sutz wrote:IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

Nope, Browner and Trufant were the starters until Trufant got hurt, Thurmond came in and got hurt, Sherman came in and the rest is history

Can easily explain that by pointing out PC sometimes playing veterans while prepping rookies. It doesn't mean that Browner's coverage skills are superior to Thurmond's, because they're just not. Browner has his role, but he got burned all the time in ways that Thurmond, even in limited playing time, showed strength against.

Can't compare the two. Browner played waaay more snaps. Better comp. Etc. I take Browner every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

RolandDeschain wrote:Him replacing Trufant's role would make our defense retardedly hard to go against.

Agreed... but be CAREFUL.

camdawg wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Alright. Since calling him our 2nd best cover cb is so asinine then there must be an obvious answer who is better. If not Thurmond who is our 2nd best cover man? Don't tell me Browner. Browner's a very good CB, much better all around then Thurmond. But its due to his physicality and beastlyness. Not due to his coverage ability.

J, you really think Thurmond is better in coverage than Browner? Was it Thurmond's zero career INT's that made you feel this way, or his two passes defensed in the last 16 games he's played in?

Stats source:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13473/walter-thurmond

I'm happy Thurmond is on the team, I still think he has a lot of potential. But Winfield could really help us.

Thurmond is clearly better than Browner in coverage. Of course stats aren't going to show it, but when he's on the field his skills definitely show.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:

themunn wrote:

sutz wrote:IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

Nope, Browner and Trufant were the starters until Trufant got hurt, Thurmond came in and got hurt, Sherman came in and the rest is history

Can easily explain that by pointing out PC sometimes playing veterans while prepping rookies. It doesn't mean that Browner's coverage skills are superior to Thurmond's, because they're just not. Browner has his role, but he got burned all the time in ways that Thurmond, even in limited playing time, showed strength against.

Yes... but that still means Browner was ahead on the depth chart. Maybe they anticipated Thurmond beating him out eventually, but Carroll would never play a veteran over a rookie (or 2nd year player) he thought was better.
And it's not like he had Browner splitting time - he played every snap.

SalishHawkFan wrote:Between him and Sherman I think the Seahawks could be something epic. I'd pay the guy what he's worth, which is more, IMO, than people on here seem to think.

Yep, You get what you pay for.
I was so sick of our breakdowns against the run plays, the second half of last Season.
Maybe, just maybe our returning DC has asked for a flier-look-see on Winfield, and maybe feels that his kind of instincts can't be taught.
I see no reason why we shouldn't try him for a 1 year, or maybe even 2, and don't try'n cheap him away to the 9rs, Rams, or Cards.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:

themunn wrote:

sutz wrote:IIRC, Browner was behind Thurmond on the depth chart before TIII got hurt.

Nope, Browner and Trufant were the starters until Trufant got hurt, Thurmond came in and got hurt, Sherman came in and the rest is history

Can easily explain that by pointing out PC sometimes playing veterans while prepping rookies. It doesn't mean that Browner's coverage skills are superior to Thurmond's, because they're just not. Browner has his role, but he got burned all the time in ways that Thurmond, even in limited playing time, showed strength against.

You have to admit, Browner's role is pretty unique in the NFL. It amazes me that the officials largely turn a blind eye to his physical play. The fact that you can say a guy his size even possesses above average coverage skills is pretty amazing by itself, but the guy straight up demoralizes whoever is unfortunate enough to line up across from him. Even if Thurmond is the better "on paper" cornerback, Browner's size has proven to be to his benefit in terms of health. His playstyle is more fun to watch, too. I generally find him even more entertaining to watch than Richard Sherman, to be honest, and I love me some Sherm.

I sorta liken Browner to the enforcers of the old NHL, except he is an above average player at his given position. For me, the fact he strikes terror in his opponents is still the main attraction.

themunn wrote:And it's not like he had Browner splitting time - he played every snap.

And even when he was done with serving his suspension, PC put him right back in there to continue with his intimidating features, speaks volumes as to his value at CB, (coverage be damned)
Those that were foolish enough to retaliate against BB's thug-ery ways, were quickly schooled, and decided to skip his classes, rather than be humiliated again.
Smith got away with retaliation against Sherman (until he finally got flagged for it), I'd bet $$ that Smith would have only retaliated > ONCE < before Browner would have shown him what " contact" really means in the phrase, "contact sports".

Adding Winfield would be an A+ move, on our part. And I'm up with giving him a decent contract, too. At this point Winfield > Woodson.

Winfield will improve this team in 4 criteria.

1) Give this young secondary as someone said a Lawyer Milloy veteran presence. Trufant is good, but he's not legendary and has a more quiet demeanor.

Guys like Lane, Thurmond, Maxwell, and Snead all can learn from this guy.

2) Gives the Seahawks, a quality backup at either starting CB spot if one of our guys go down.

3) Gives the Seahawk, a player in speculation that could be a top notch nickel corner or....

4) Gives the Seahawks, a player in speculation can also convert to FS in place of Thomas allowing the Earl of Boom to kick down as an elite slot defender.

Winfield is deserving for whatever contract the Seahawks give him and I won't question it or disapprove.

He'd fit in well with the LOB no doubt. Still has some left in the tank, big hitter, leader in the locker room etc. Hopefully they'll sign him.

After reading Vikings' forums about Winfield, I really hope we sign him now. He sounds like a very good player still.

I also noticed how much animosity a lot of their fans have against the Seahawks. You can tell they are still actually butthurt over the Harvin deal(whether they admit it or not).

Signing Winfield would continue the talent drain from Minnesota to Seattle. Great player. A little more revenge for Hutch's poison pill.

I've wanted Winfield since he got released. I'm excited that the Seahawks are giving him a look.

Antoine Winfield in 2012



2012 Minnesota Vikings Games 16 - Total Tackles 101 - Assisted Tackles 72 - Solo Tackles 29 - Sackes 0.5 Passes Defensed 12 - INTs 3

Link: http://www.nfl.com/player/antoinewinfield/2503765/profile

Can't argue with those numbers.

Honestly one of the best highlight video's I've seen in a while. The music makes it even more epic, but the play is just amazing. Just dominating like it's high school football all over again. I really hope he ends up a Hawk.

How funny would it be to see all these ex-Vikings win a ring with the Hawks this season? The ULTIMATE revenge for the Hutch "Poison Pill" fiasco. Karma.

Edit: Forgot my whole point of this post. The Bernie. We need this guy so that he can do The Bernie before every game. That's the only thing this team is missing. Oh, and a kicker, but The Bernie is definitely more important.

Agree NYcoug, then in the off season they all could put in a conference call to AP to tell him about how to get a ring too.

NYCoug wrote:
Edit: Forgot my whole point of this post. The Bernie. We need this guy so that he can do The Bernie before every game. That's the only thing this team is missing. Oh, and a kicker, but The Bernie is definitely more important.

So much this. In the NFL forum where that video is also in a thread I said how that is the best part. Ty Lawson got's the move down pretty well to.



/back on topic

when is the visit? anyone know?

Been living in MN for awhile, and outside of Harvin, Allen and Peterson, this is the only Viking I really like. And I know when he went out to Washington for a visit the local sports radio were tracking that more than when Jennings was visiting. they dont want to lose him.

Would be a great addition for a team trying to get to a Super Bowl.

The seattle + minnisota dream team is almost complete.

I like chad greenway, kyle rudolph, and their kicker . Can we get them too?

Uncle Si wrote:when is the visit? anyone know?

Been living in MN for awhile, and outside of Harvin, Allen and Peterson, this is the only Viking I really like. And I know when he went out to Washington for a visit the local sports radio were tracking that more than when Jennings was visiting. they dont want to lose him.

Would be a great addition for a team trying to get to a Super Bowl.

IIRC somebody said it was this Wednesday.

godawg wrote:Signing Winfield would continue the talent drain from Minnesota to Seattle. Great player. A little more revenge for Hutch's poison pill.

Was thinking the same thing.

I really like Winfield and I think he deserves to get paid decently but that is part of the problem. I don't for one second think that JS and PC think the time is "now" as expressed in this thread. They are building for long term success while making moves that they think can make them win now but not hurt the team to badly over the years.

Yes Sherman and RW will need to get paid but you can minimize the hits of those contracts by having some cap room coming in, lots of signing bonus spread over the years and then take the bigger hit when the cap starts increasing more again (tied to the next tv contract). So we are coming in under the cap in good shape and setup for the future.

The more we sign players to large contracts the more we "mess" with long term success. So the question which I believe JS and PC will answer much better than us is what is the value of the player vs the cost and our ability to keep being succesful. One key injury and a season can go down the tube so you can't sell out hoping that everything aligns the right way.

I see Winfield playing with the Seahawks if he takes less money than he is worth for the chance to win it all. If he wants to maximize / near maximize a deal he won't be playing for us.

Saw a report earlier saying he will be in today.

Sign Him

This would be a very good signing and I am all for it!