Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter

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  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



    Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:


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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



    Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:




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  • volsunghawk wrote:As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


    I don't necessarily trust/distrust Flynn over a four game stretch. I certainly trust him more than a guy like Thigpen, Leinart, or Young. I am not sure if Flynn is a 3-1 type guy, but I wouldn't doubt he is a 2-2 type backup. I think the amount of money you are paying for a backup that is notably better than Flynn isn't any different than the money you are saving by trading him. That is the catch for me, on that side of the equation. I don't think Flynn is a world beater by any stretch, and never was sold on him as a starter in this league. I just think he is marginally better than anybody out on the market at this point in time, and it isn't exactly cost prohibitive to keep him.
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  • From Flynnsanity to Flynnsignificant.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


    Bingo.

    Not sure why some Hawk fans add extra talent to certain players just because they're on our roster. If Flynn was the backup QB in Detroit or somewhere, no one on here would second guess a 5th rounder and conditional pick for a journeyman backup with all of two games starting under his belt.
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  • i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM
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  • Exittium wrote:i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


    This is all based on the assumption that Flynn is really quite decent. What if he isn't? And what if they replace Flynn with somebody even better?
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  • Exittium wrote:i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


    Wow. This comment is like you haven't even paid attention to what John and Pete have accomplished in three years. If you have this little of faith from the two guys that have turned over an entire roster that was 4-10 and going nowhere to a Superbowl favorite team, then there's no hope for you.
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.


    Where did you get that stat from?

    For a good example, my reckoning is that there were 21 QBs last year who started 16 games, and a further 4 who missed a combined 6 starts (Griffin, Palmer, Cutler & Roethlisberger who accounts for 3 of those missed starts). The remaining 7 teams comprise of the likes of Jacksonville, the Jets, Arizona, San Francisco who had fit QBs that they chose to bench, and the remaining 3 of the Chiefs, Titans and Eagles who had genuine injuries to players.

    Still, 24 teams who had their starting QB for 14+ games. You're suggesting paying 7-8 million for a player who has a 25% chance of having to play for >2 games. And in reality, probably even less chance than that considering we employ arguably the most elusive QB in the league in terms of avoiding contact, and whose size probably helps him in terms of injury likelihood
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  • My only gripe is that the 2014 pick is not also conditional. I realize that few, if any, people really believe Flynn and OAK are going to pull of a miracle season, but if he does and turns out to be a solid starter then we should be getting a higher pick, period. If the probability is so low, then it should not have been a difficult deal point. Without knowing what picks Oak even has in 2014, it seems fair if it was a 5th that jumps to a 4th if Flynn wins 8 games, 3rd for 10 wins or wildcard spot in playoffs, 2nd for 11 wins or 1st place finish in division, and 1st for 12+ wins or a win in the divisional playoff round.
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  • The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.
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  • Palmer is only on that team because they have nothing at that position and they will hate Palmer very quickly down there he's a turnover machine. Flynn was worth a 3rd or 4th no less. They dumped him.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


    Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.
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  • Did Palmer restructure for AZ?
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

    When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.

    Buying insurance is a part of life. Everybody has to make their own decisions about when to buy good insurance, and when to buy cheap-ass insurance. Spending more for good insurance isn't necessarily a mistake, even if you never use it.

    So was Flynn, as an insurance policy, worth what we paid? Who knows... if he goes to Oakland and lights it up, then he was worth the money we spent on on him for short-term insurance. If he goes there and craps the bed, then we were wise to get out from under that particular policy.

    The thing about insurance is that most of the time, you go through life hoping you don't have to use it -- and by extension, hoping you never have to find out if the policy you had was both good quality and a good fit.
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  • I keep popping in and out of this thread just for the sheer entertainment value (and to see just how long a dead horse can be relentlessly beaten)... and all I gotta say is Seahawks fans are an interesting... and entertaining breed...

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  • ihawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


    Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.



    They lost leverage long before that. They lost it when they traded away their 1st round pick and then agreed to pay him 13 million a year.

    That's the thing, just because the Hawks didn't HAVE to trade Flynn doesn't mean that equates to higher compensation leverage dealing with other teams. If Flynn would have come here, started and played great? Then yeah his value goes way up. But he didn't, he's still the same journeyman backup QB he was a year ago...........only now he makes 5 million a year. How is that better leverage for the Hawks?
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  • BlueTalon wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

    When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.

    Buying insurance is a part of life. Everybody has to make their own decisions about when to buy good insurance, and when to buy cheap-ass insurance. Spending more for good insurance isn't necessarily a mistake, even if you never use it.

    So was Flynn, as an insurance policy, worth what we paid? Who knows... if he goes to Oakland and lights it up, then he was worth the money we spent on on him for short-term insurance. If he goes there and craps the bed, then we were wise to get out from under that particular policy.

    The thing about insurance is that most of the time, you go through life hoping you don't have to use it -- and by extension, hoping you never have to find out if the policy you had was both good quality and a good fit.


    I didn't even see it that restricted.

    The way the order of things go, all we had was Tarvaris when we signed Flynn. And John has been pretty candid that although he really liked (loved?) Wilson, the fact is Russell outperformed even Schneider's expectations. There was no hope that we'd move up to get a QB in the draft. And really no real expectation that we would have addressed the QB position adequately in the draft at all.

    We struck gold. Partially by good fortune. Partially by vision. But there is little doubt I think that we improved our club the moment we signed Flynn. I actually think it's indicative of what they've always preached, "We will seek any avenue to improve our team." Despite getting what we expected was a starter capable QB, we saw Wilson as a unique player and need be damned, we doubled down on the position.

    I am glad we did. And I hope we do it every time in the future. That goes for Irvin or Carpenter or any other player we've invested significantly in (money or draft stock). Keep adding talent and let it rise to the surface no matter where you find it. If we get the next Aldon Smith and it renders Irvin obsolete, I'm not about to cry about the 'wasted' first round pick. I'm going to focus on the fact we improved on that first round selection.

    I, for one, love our talent acquisition model. Keep doing what we're doing. Never rest on past laurels or close our options just because we recently invested in it. Always compete and always improve.
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  • Obviously the compensation is meh... But at least we got something I suppose. Now we resign Kam in the next few days and we are all happy campers again
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    ihawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


    Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.



    They lost leverage long before that. They lost it when they traded away their 1st round pick and then agreed to pay him 13 million a year.

    That's the thing, just because the Hawks didn't HAVE to trade Flynn doesn't mean that equates to higher compensation leverage dealing with other teams. If Flynn would have come here, started and played great? Then yeah his value goes way up. But he didn't, he's still the same journeyman backup QB he was a year ago...........only now he makes 5 million a year. How is that better leverage for the Hawks?


    The Cards knew that if they didn't trade for Palmer then OAK had no other option but to drop him. Do you agree? That's a horrible position to negotiate from, so yeah, I think the Seahawks were in a slightly better position with OAK than OAK was with ARZ. Notwithstanding, Palmer's 33 and clearly on the decline - an obvious stop-gap with little upside and no long term value. That's apples and oranges to Flynn who is a pure lottery ticket with many years left to play if he pans out. So I don't think you can just point at OAK's compensation for Palmer and use it to justify what we got for Flynn.

    I'm not claiming we should have gotten much more than we did - I just think that because there is so much uncertainty about Flynn, it would have been nice if the 2014 pick we got was conditional with the ability to go all the way up if Flynn turns out to be really good.
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  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    BlueTalon wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

    When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he (Flynn) would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.


    I didn't even see it that restricted.

    The way the order of things go, all we had was Tarvaris when we signed Flynn. And John has been pretty candid that although he really liked (loved?) Wilson, the fact is Russell outperformed even Schneider's expectations. There was no hope that we'd move up to get a QB in the draft. And really no real expectation that we would have addressed the QB position adequately in the draft at all.

    We struck gold. Partially by good fortune. Partially by vision. But there is little doubt I think that we improved our club the moment we signed Flynn. I actually think it's indicative of what they've always preached, "We will seek any avenue to improve our team." Despite getting what we expected was a starter capable QB, we saw Wilson as a unique player and need be damned, we doubled down on the position.

    JS certainly was very candid about his pre-draft man-crush on Russell Wilson. There was never any talk about moving up in the early rounds to get a QB, but JS went into the draft hoping and expecting to address the QB situation in a manner that would be considered significantly better than adequate.


    (It just occurred to me that perhaps I used a few too many pronouns in my previous post.)
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  • The Yugoslavian wrote:Now we resign Kam in the next few days and we are all happy campers again

    I wonder how people would react to the trade if that exactly was the choice -- do we keep Flynn as a backup for one more year, or do we extend Kam Chancellor?

    Might be a good poll question.


    ihawk wrote:I'm not claiming we should have gotten much more than we did - I just think that because there is so much uncertainty about Flynn, it would have been nice if the 2014 pick we got was conditional with the ability to go all the way up if Flynn turns out to be really good.

    Good point.
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  • So basically we traded him for a jar of mixed nuts. The squirrels will be happy.
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  • TWO jars of mixed nuts. BIG jars.
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  • No, a jar of mixed nuts and a conditional jar of mixed nuts
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  • So , the jar more than likely will have a lot of peanuts in it.
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  • When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:
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  • SeattleSprtsHub wrote:Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


    As we can tell by your post count of 1 and join date of today! Welcome aboard. Don't mind Pehawk. he touches everyone like that...
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  • SeattleSprtsHub wrote:When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


    The cap room indeed will be very helpful, especially next year when we're going to want to re-sign some guys.

    Welcome to the forums!
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  • The Outfield wrote:
    SeattleSprtsHub wrote:When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


    The cap room indeed will be very helpful, especially next year when we're going to want to re-sign some guys.

    Welcome to the forums!


    Thank you for the welcome.

    The cap room like you said will be important but also I'm happy that Flynn is being given the chance to start elsewhere and being given another opportunity to be a starter. I just wish it didn't have to be with the stupid Raiduhs! LOL.
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  • SeattleSprtsHub wrote:
    The Outfield wrote:
    SeattleSprtsHub wrote:When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


    The cap room indeed will be very helpful, especially next year when we're going to want to re-sign some guys.

    Welcome to the forums!


    Thank you for the welcome.

    The cap room like you said will be important but also I'm happy that Flynn is being given the chance to start elsewhere and being given another opportunity to be a starter. I just wish it didn't have to be with the stupid Raiduhs! LOL.


    Ugh. Another nice guy. Just what this board needed. :roll:

    Well, at least Radish will like you.
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  • Welcome to the forums![/quote]

    Thank you for the welcome.

    The cap room like you said will be important but also I'm happy that Flynn is being given the chance to start elsewhere and being given another opportunity to be a starter. I just wish it didn't have to be with the stupid Raiduhs! LOL.[/quote]

    Ugh. Another nice guy. Just what this board needed. :roll:

    Well, at least Radish will like you.[/quote]

    Lol thank you for the welcome and I like to think of myself as a nice guy...most of the time :D don't let that smile fool you. On the last forum I was a part of, I got banned for this: :thfight7: I'm kidding I've never been banned from a forum before, you have to try really harding and tick someone off to be banned. Thank you again for the welcome.
    SeattleSprtsHub
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  • Here's a radio interview Flynn did earlier today:
    http://media.957thegame.com/a/72691065/ ... eid=886596

    Not a lot said about Seattle, more about what he learned from Rodgers. Said he knew he'd be in competition last year when he signed, thrives on it, learned after his experience he wants the starting job even more this time around.
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    TheWebHead
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Exittium wrote:i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


    This is all based on the assumption that Flynn is really quite decent. What if he isn't? And what if they replace Flynn with somebody even better?


    Like who?
    gmor
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