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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Flynn preparing for Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Bigpumpkin wrote:
Hawkscanner wrote:

No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!

the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.
If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

If the market can't bear more, they did this as a favor to Flynn. That I can live with, provided it doesn't bite us in the butt when, not if, Wilson goes down.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:24 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:42 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


Tyler Thigpen, Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Gino Torretta, and if all else fails...Colin Kaepernick

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:47 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Largent80 wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.


He'll ya, where do I sign? I will gladly agree to the league minimum to do nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:10 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.


He'll ya, where do I sign? I will gladly agree to the league minimum to do nothing.


In your area check the Silly Savage Hotline.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:27 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
pehawk wrote:
That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.


There is no doubt that the market for Flynn was only worth next to nothing, a fifth next year is worth a sixth on this one, the 2015th pick is worth nothing. What is not clear is why Seattle agreed to sell.

Without extra picks this year we basically loose a pick if we draft a qb, the 2.5m cap space we save won't buy a decent backup free agent this year. The cardinals get a quarterback that is bounds better than anything they were going to. The only thing the Seahawks get for this trade is some cap relief NEXT year, about 4m.

They did this trade to do right by Flynn and to the detriment of the Seahawks. I do not like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:34 pm 
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I think this is more than just draft picks and cap space. I think this sends a message to future free agents that as long as you do what is in the best interest of the team, the team will take into consideration your best interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:42 pm 
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As a seahawks fan I don't like this deal. As stated 100 times already, I think having a great backup is worth more than what we got.

With that said, I am glad Flynn is going somewhere else to get another shot. The guy really hasn't been able to catch a break his whole career, college included, yet when given the chance he is great. I am confident he is going to be a great qb in this league, even on a team as crappy as the Raiders.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Just heard on the radio, Flynn is actually getting increased guaranteed money from the Raiders? That is what the hold up was? Not how much he was going to cut from his contract, but what he was adding to it? Crazy if this is true.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:52 pm 
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They made it a three year agreement. While they increased guaranteed money it was most likely this years salary turned into signing bonus. Makes it guaranteed but also lowers the cap hit.

Win-win


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Yeah, I assume they'll be able to spread his 2013 salary (now fully guaranteed) over the life of the contract, which helps their cap in '13. His restructured contract pays him the same overall money per Sando.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:01 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
Bigpumpkin wrote:

Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!

the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.
If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

If the market can't bear more, they did this as a favor to Flynn. That I can live with, provided it doesn't bite us in the butt when, not if, Wilson goes down.


Um, that wasn't true the first time you posted it. You should stop saying it.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:11 pm 
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seahawksTopGear wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
pehawk wrote:
That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.


There is no doubt that the market for Flynn was only worth next to nothing, a fifth next year is worth a sixth on this one, the 2015th pick is worth nothing. What is not clear is why Seattle agreed to sell.

Without extra picks this year we basically loose a pick if we draft a qb, the 2.5m cap space we save won't buy a decent backup free agent this year. The cardinals get a quarterback that is bounds better than anything they were going to. The only thing the Seahawks get for this trade is some cap relief NEXT year, about 4m.

They did this trade to do right by Flynn and to the detriment of the Seahawks. I do not like it.


Savings next year is between 6.5-8.5 million. And 3.5 million this year.

And again . . . Screw the value chart. 5th round picks are 5th round picks regardless of what year they are in.

And we have extra picks, inc.uding a 7th round pick we acquired for Tavaris Jackson. In fact, we've got 3 extra picks this year, and less spots than ever for rookies to make the team. picking a QB or two this year is easy pickings.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
LymonHawk wrote:

I'm not saying the QB is not the most important player on the field; only that he's not the ONLY player on the field. History backs me up; a backup QB can get you to the SB.


History does not back you up. You pointed out the exception, not the rule. If 10 of the previous 15 Superbowl winners were with journeymen backups, then your point would be valid. Just saying that it's POSSIBLE that we can get to the Superbowl with a backup QB because it happened 5-6 times in 40 years doesn't mean anything other than it's statistically possible.

Here are the facts, the last 10 Superbowl winning QB's were;

Brady
Brady
Roethlisberger
Petyon Manning
Eli Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
Eli Manning
Flacco

ALL of these QB's are considered Elite QB's, or at least in the top 6-7 of the entire league. Can you get the SB without an elite QB? Sure. What are the odds of that happening? Slim to none.


Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention Brady, he was also a backup.

When you say we cannot make it to the SB with RW, that is an absolute. I pointed out that it is not an absolute.

Backup QBs have taken their team(s) to the SB in the past, and most likely will do it again. Fact!!

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:29 pm 
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2 future 5ths is better then having them now. How many roster spots do we have this year to accomodate draft picks? Not many. We could draft a Sherman in this years 5th and he could end up getting cut. If anything drafting a good 5th would be more useful after a deep playoff/possible superbowl run because there WILL be cap casualties nin the aftermath and therefore more holes to fill with JS and PC's miracle picks.

I don't like any of the FA backups. But I wouldn't care if JS pursued them. I'd personally rather take my chances in the 4th round or later and target someone like Jordan Rodgers, who is mobile, improved during his college career, and had success on a weak Vanderbilt team. I want somebody with a chip on their shoulder that's going to want to prove he can make it as a possible starter in the NFL and LEARN from a master at bettering his game in Russell Wilson.

Wish Flynn success, but the NFL is a business and a hard one. We need the cap savings to reload next year. Locking up Thomas, and hopefully Sherman is that much easier without a 2 year, $11m dollar insurance policy like a monkey on our back. Is it a gamble? Absolutely. But a gambler isn't someone who just risks everything willy nilly. A gambler is what Kenny Roger's described, someone who "knows when to hold 'em, and knows when to fold 'em."

I would rather be in position to keep our team together and dominant for multiple SB tries then to find out whether Flynn's very small sample size of starts translates to his walking on water with concrete shoes while chewing gum and generating enough TDs to feed 5000 receivers, or disappoints as a grossly overpaid crank yanking grump with elbow issues that would make us wish RW played through injury.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:34 pm 
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volsunghawk wrote:
Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:35 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:


edited for language attacking poster

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:44 pm 
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volsunghawk wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:




True, I must find a new thing to obsess about.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:52 pm 
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volsunghawk wrote:
As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


I don't necessarily trust/distrust Flynn over a four game stretch. I certainly trust him more than a guy like Thigpen, Leinart, or Young. I am not sure if Flynn is a 3-1 type guy, but I wouldn't doubt he is a 2-2 type backup. I think the amount of money you are paying for a backup that is notably better than Flynn isn't any different than the money you are saving by trading him. That is the catch for me, on that side of the equation. I don't think Flynn is a world beater by any stretch, and never was sold on him as a starter in this league. I just think he is marginally better than anybody out on the market at this point in time, and it isn't exactly cost prohibitive to keep him.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:50 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


Bingo.

Not sure why some Hawk fans add extra talent to certain players just because they're on our roster. If Flynn was the backup QB in Detroit or somewhere, no one on here would second guess a 5th rounder and conditional pick for a journeyman backup with all of two games starting under his belt.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:08 am 
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i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:15 am 
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Exittium wrote:
i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


This is all based on the assumption that Flynn is really quite decent. What if he isn't? And what if they replace Flynn with somebody even better?

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:22 am 
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Exittium wrote:
i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


Wow. This comment is like you haven't even paid attention to what John and Pete have accomplished in three years. If you have this little of faith from the two guys that have turned over an entire roster that was 4-10 and going nowhere to a Superbowl favorite team, then there's no hope for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:58 am 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.


Where did you get that stat from?

For a good example, my reckoning is that there were 21 QBs last year who started 16 games, and a further 4 who missed a combined 6 starts (Griffin, Palmer, Cutler & Roethlisberger who accounts for 3 of those missed starts). The remaining 7 teams comprise of the likes of Jacksonville, the Jets, Arizona, San Francisco who had fit QBs that they chose to bench, and the remaining 3 of the Chiefs, Titans and Eagles who had genuine injuries to players.

Still, 24 teams who had their starting QB for 14+ games. You're suggesting paying 7-8 million for a player who has a 25% chance of having to play for >2 games. And in reality, probably even less chance than that considering we employ arguably the most elusive QB in the league in terms of avoiding contact, and whose size probably helps him in terms of injury likelihood


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:55 am 
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My only gripe is that the 2014 pick is not also conditional. I realize that few, if any, people really believe Flynn and OAK are going to pull of a miracle season, but if he does and turns out to be a solid starter then we should be getting a higher pick, period. If the probability is so low, then it should not have been a difficult deal point. Without knowing what picks Oak even has in 2014, it seems fair if it was a 5th that jumps to a 4th if Flynn wins 8 games, 3rd for 10 wins or wildcard spot in playoffs, 2nd for 11 wins or 1st place finish in division, and 1st for 12+ wins or a win in the divisional playoff round.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:02 am 
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The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:08 am 
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Palmer is only on that team because they have nothing at that position and they will hate Palmer very quickly down there he's a turnover machine. Flynn was worth a 3rd or 4th no less. They dumped him.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:17 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:36 am 
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Did Palmer restructure for AZ?

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:40 am 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.

Buying insurance is a part of life. Everybody has to make their own decisions about when to buy good insurance, and when to buy cheap-ass insurance. Spending more for good insurance isn't necessarily a mistake, even if you never use it.

So was Flynn, as an insurance policy, worth what we paid? Who knows... if he goes to Oakland and lights it up, then he was worth the money we spent on on him for short-term insurance. If he goes there and craps the bed, then we were wise to get out from under that particular policy.

The thing about insurance is that most of the time, you go through life hoping you don't have to use it -- and by extension, hoping you never have to find out if the policy you had was both good quality and a good fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:42 am 
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I keep popping in and out of this thread just for the sheer entertainment value (and to see just how long a dead horse can be relentlessly beaten)... and all I gotta say is Seahawks fans are an interesting... and entertaining breed...

:th2thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:03 pm 
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ihawk wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.



They lost leverage long before that. They lost it when they traded away their 1st round pick and then agreed to pay him 13 million a year.

That's the thing, just because the Hawks didn't HAVE to trade Flynn doesn't mean that equates to higher compensation leverage dealing with other teams. If Flynn would have come here, started and played great? Then yeah his value goes way up. But he didn't, he's still the same journeyman backup QB he was a year ago...........only now he makes 5 million a year. How is that better leverage for the Hawks?

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:05 pm 
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BlueTalon wrote:
SalishHawkFan wrote:
If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.

Buying insurance is a part of life. Everybody has to make their own decisions about when to buy good insurance, and when to buy cheap-ass insurance. Spending more for good insurance isn't necessarily a mistake, even if you never use it.

So was Flynn, as an insurance policy, worth what we paid? Who knows... if he goes to Oakland and lights it up, then he was worth the money we spent on on him for short-term insurance. If he goes there and craps the bed, then we were wise to get out from under that particular policy.

The thing about insurance is that most of the time, you go through life hoping you don't have to use it -- and by extension, hoping you never have to find out if the policy you had was both good quality and a good fit.


I didn't even see it that restricted.

The way the order of things go, all we had was Tarvaris when we signed Flynn. And John has been pretty candid that although he really liked (loved?) Wilson, the fact is Russell outperformed even Schneider's expectations. There was no hope that we'd move up to get a QB in the draft. And really no real expectation that we would have addressed the QB position adequately in the draft at all.

We struck gold. Partially by good fortune. Partially by vision. But there is little doubt I think that we improved our club the moment we signed Flynn. I actually think it's indicative of what they've always preached, "We will seek any avenue to improve our team." Despite getting what we expected was a starter capable QB, we saw Wilson as a unique player and need be damned, we doubled down on the position.

I am glad we did. And I hope we do it every time in the future. That goes for Irvin or Carpenter or any other player we've invested significantly in (money or draft stock). Keep adding talent and let it rise to the surface no matter where you find it. If we get the next Aldon Smith and it renders Irvin obsolete, I'm not about to cry about the 'wasted' first round pick. I'm going to focus on the fact we improved on that first round selection.

I, for one, love our talent acquisition model. Keep doing what we're doing. Never rest on past laurels or close our options just because we recently invested in it. Always compete and always improve.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Obviously the compensation is meh... But at least we got something I suppose. Now we resign Kam in the next few days and we are all happy campers again

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
ihawk wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
The fact that all the Raiders got for Palmer is a conditional 7th round pick should tell all the people complaining about what we got for Flynn are WAY out of line.


Disagree. The raiders lost all leverage the minute they traded for Flynn.



They lost leverage long before that. They lost it when they traded away their 1st round pick and then agreed to pay him 13 million a year.

That's the thing, just because the Hawks didn't HAVE to trade Flynn doesn't mean that equates to higher compensation leverage dealing with other teams. If Flynn would have come here, started and played great? Then yeah his value goes way up. But he didn't, he's still the same journeyman backup QB he was a year ago...........only now he makes 5 million a year. How is that better leverage for the Hawks?


The Cards knew that if they didn't trade for Palmer then OAK had no other option but to drop him. Do you agree? That's a horrible position to negotiate from, so yeah, I think the Seahawks were in a slightly better position with OAK than OAK was with ARZ. Notwithstanding, Palmer's 33 and clearly on the decline - an obvious stop-gap with little upside and no long term value. That's apples and oranges to Flynn who is a pure lottery ticket with many years left to play if he pans out. So I don't think you can just point at OAK's compensation for Palmer and use it to justify what we got for Flynn.

I'm not claiming we should have gotten much more than we did - I just think that because there is so much uncertainty about Flynn, it would have been nice if the 2014 pick we got was conditional with the ability to go all the way up if Flynn turns out to be really good.


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Attyla the Hawk wrote:
BlueTalon wrote:
SalishHawkFan wrote:
If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

When they originally signed Flynn, what they bought was insurance. The Seahawks had their eyes on RW, but there was no guarantee they would get him or any other quarterback in the draft who they felt could handle the starting job. I believe they fully expected he (Flynn) would become the starter, and had things worked out differently in the draft, he probably would have been.


I didn't even see it that restricted.

The way the order of things go, all we had was Tarvaris when we signed Flynn. And John has been pretty candid that although he really liked (loved?) Wilson, the fact is Russell outperformed even Schneider's expectations. There was no hope that we'd move up to get a QB in the draft. And really no real expectation that we would have addressed the QB position adequately in the draft at all.

We struck gold. Partially by good fortune. Partially by vision. But there is little doubt I think that we improved our club the moment we signed Flynn. I actually think it's indicative of what they've always preached, "We will seek any avenue to improve our team." Despite getting what we expected was a starter capable QB, we saw Wilson as a unique player and need be damned, we doubled down on the position.

JS certainly was very candid about his pre-draft man-crush on Russell Wilson. There was never any talk about moving up in the early rounds to get a QB, but JS went into the draft hoping and expecting to address the QB situation in a manner that would be considered significantly better than adequate.


(It just occurred to me that perhaps I used a few too many pronouns in my previous post.)

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:28 pm 
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The Yugoslavian wrote:
Now we resign Kam in the next few days and we are all happy campers again

I wonder how people would react to the trade if that exactly was the choice -- do we keep Flynn as a backup for one more year, or do we extend Kam Chancellor?

Might be a good poll question.


ihawk wrote:
I'm not claiming we should have gotten much more than we did - I just think that because there is so much uncertainty about Flynn, it would have been nice if the 2014 pick we got was conditional with the ability to go all the way up if Flynn turns out to be really good.

Good point.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:35 pm 
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So basically we traded him for a jar of mixed nuts. The squirrels will be happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:37 pm 
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TWO jars of mixed nuts. BIG jars.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
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No, a jar of mixed nuts and a conditional jar of mixed nuts


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:41 pm 
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So , the jar more than likely will have a lot of peanuts in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:37 pm 
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When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:45 pm 
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SeattleSprtsHub wrote:
Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


As we can tell by your post count of 1 and join date of today! Welcome aboard. Don't mind Pehawk. he touches everyone like that...

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SeattleSprtsHub wrote:
When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


The cap room indeed will be very helpful, especially next year when we're going to want to re-sign some guys.

Welcome to the forums!


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 Post subject: Re: Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:51 pm 
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The Outfield wrote:
SeattleSprtsHub wrote:
When I first saw this trade become offical yesterday, I thought "Oh crap, what horrible picks to get, no picks for this year at all what bs." But then being the typical overeactor that I am, I took a step back and thought hmm..what does this really mean, well to me and I'm sure a lot of you feel this way but I am thrilled to get the cap room back to help us build our future and extend guys whose contracts are up soon and even add some pieces to the team. Just my :twocents: Oh yeah and by the way I'm new to this forum :2:


The cap room indeed will be very helpful, especially next year when we're going to want to re-sign some guys.

Welcome to the forums!


Thank you for the welcome.

The cap room like you said will be important but also I'm happy that Flynn is being given the chance to start elsewhere and being given another opportunity to be a starter. I just wish it didn't have to be with the stupid Raiduhs! LOL.


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