Flynn traded for 2 picks - via Glazer/Twitter

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  • DavidSeven wrote:NFL.com writers unanimously pan Flynn's prospects as a starter in Oakland

    Flynn's perceived value around the league is low. LOW. That's the simple truth.



    True that. Remove the fanbase homerism and you tend to see things a bit more true. I am happy with the trade.
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  • Looking back at the offseason projections, folks like Schefter, King and a few others stated the Seahawks were not going to get anything for Flynn and would ultimately cut him. We had several spirited debates about that but this deal proves they were not completely off but were not completely aware of trade potential for Flynn.

    I think some are being greedy, expecting 1st round picks or 2nd rounders etc. Others are afraid that giving up the security blanket Flynn offers to fans is a mistake.

    I like Flynn and hope he is successful in Oakland. I thought he should have started for the Seahawks last year, with TJ and Wilson backing him up. Before Pete and John decided to go the route they did.

    If I am Oakland, I am concerned about his elbow and hope it doesn't flare up during TC like it did for the Seahawks.

    I personally would have liked to see the team get a 3rd or 4th but it didn't happen. The team could have been comfortable keeping Flynn but absent any insider detail not sure how much that was going to be reciprocated. After signing him with expectations that he would win a competition for the starter, to bring him back in a full backup role was going to be a sticky issue that needed to be managed.

    On the topic of JS getting fleeced. There was a market of 3 teams and two backed out early when they heard the possible compensation required. He was not dealing from strength. The deal is made and I look forward to what they do for the backup slot. I would draft and groom with the idea of maybe grabbing a decent vet at a reasonable price. Maybe Thigpen? Not sure about Leinhart. He turned the team down once before.
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  • DavidSeven wrote:NFL.com writers unanimously pan Flynn's prospects as a starter in Oakland

    Flynn's perceived value around the league is low. LOW. That's the simple truth.


    The first one has the truth and the cause for so much debate on this site

    "But it means, given the limited body of work, there's little way of knowing whether or not he'll be the answer for the Raiders. And he's certainly no more proven than Carson Palmer. Perhaps Flynn will be a better fit for the system. Perhaps he's more talented. But the truth is, we simply just don't know if the Raiders have found their guy -- or if they're just prolonging their search for the real long-term answer. "

    With Kolb and Fitzpatrick there is plenty of tape now. You can watch it and all you need is one team to think they really like something on that tape and the value goes up. Considering that draft picks are a big commodity due to the salary restrictions and the unknown about Flynn it wasn't a surprise what we got. Lots of people were saying one fifth round pick and now we got two future fifth rounds and the money off the board. Maybe he is the future of this league or more likely he will be servicable but he may also stink up the joint, take to many sacks on a bad team and end up on IR and never play again.........
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  • DavidSeven wrote:NFL.com writers unanimously pan Flynn's prospects as a starter in Oakland

    Flynn's perceived value around the league is low. LOW. That's the simple truth.


    Is the comment from Adam Rank a real attempt at analysis, or is this his own April Fool's analytical approach to the trade? My goodness.
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  • hoxrox wrote:Think we could have done better than the 5th. A 4th would have been better. I mean KC gave the 9ers a 2nd for Alex Smith. Will see who ends up being the better QB over the course of their careers.


    How could we have done better? Short of putting a gun to Reggie McKenzie's head and demanding a 4th?

    There was no market. For the second year in a row. If there was a 4th to be had out there, they would've taken it. They took the only offer on the table.

    Alex Smith is a former #1 pick that the league knows all about. He's not a career backup with two NFL starts. He's also taken a team to a play or two from the Super Bowl. KC overpaid a little to make sure they avoided a bidding war. Even then, look at the numbers in the first few weeks of the 2012 season. Smith was among the highest ranked quarterbacks in the league.
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  • Looking at the Colt McCoy deal, the Browns traded him for a low 5th if you balance things out (Colt + Browns 6th for 9ers low 5th + mid-round 7th). Could even say the Browns 6th almost cancelling out the 9ers 5th, meaning the 9ers got Colt for a 7th.

    Two 5th round picks for Flynn in this market seems not to be highway robbery to me.

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    Source: The 49ers give up their 7th-round pick and their fifth for Colt McCoy and Browns' sixth. (So 49ers move back nine spots)
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:Think we could have done better than the 5th. A 4th would have been better. I mean KC gave the 9ers a 2nd for Alex Smith. Will see who ends up being the better QB over the course of their careers.


    How could we have done better? Short of putting a gun to Reggie McKenzie's head and demanding a 4th?

    There was no market. For the second year in a row. If there was a 4th to be had out there, they would've taken it. They took the only offer on the table.

    Alex Smith is a former #1 pick that the league knows all about. He's not a career backup with two NFL starts. He's also taken a team to a play or two from the Super Bowl. KC overpaid a little to make sure they avoided a bidding war. Even then, look at the numbers in the first few weeks of the 2012 season. Smith was among the highest ranked quarterbacks in the league.


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  • April Fool's!
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:
    GoHawks wrote:Tony Nipert‏@TNipert132m
    @DavisHsuSeattle @FieldGulls heard from Cables son we are getting a 5th in 14 and most likely a 5th in 15. Just what he's told me.


    If that's honestly the package of what the Hawks are getting back ... then let's call this what it is -- a salary dump. With a team that looks poised to go to the Super Bowl this year, I don't like this. It just feels like Flynn's value to this team (having a competent back-up who can actually win you some games) this year is worth far more than that.


    I feel like two fifths is a major steal for us . . .


    Yeah, as much of a steal as cutting Kellen Winslow to save a buck and picking up Evan Moore. That one worked out well.

    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:Yeah, as much of a steal as cutting Kellen Winslow to save a buck and picking up Evan Moore. That one worked out well.

    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    And if Wilson plays all 16 games next year, JS turns one of those fifths into another Richard Sherman and we use the cap savings to extend Kam Chancellor... what's that worth to the Seahawks?

    Winslow didn't even stick on an NFL team last year, and I don't see teams rushing to offer him any money this year. How did that not work out well for us?
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  • DavidSeven wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:Yeah, as much of a steal as cutting Kellen Winslow to save a buck and picking up Evan Moore. That one worked out well.

    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    And if Wilson plays all 16 games next year, JS turns one of those fifths into another Richard Sherman and we use the cap savings to extend Kam Chancellor... what's that worth to the Seahawks?

    Winslow didn't even stick on an NFL team last year, and I don't see teams rushing to offer him any money this year. How did that not work out well for us?


    I meant the Evan Moore part of that --- excellent use of resources.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:
    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!
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  • Squirrels anyone?

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  • Bigpumpkin wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:
    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!


    Exactly right -- given the package the Hawks are actually getting back for Flynn, I don't see the need to even tread anywhere close to Golgotha. We're talking about a Super Bowl contender and all of a sudden we've got a hole. Are people seriously more comfortable with the idea of Tyler Thigpen at QB if Wilson goes down ... or god forbid Matt Leinart? I get it that this is all about Cap Savings and how this fits in with the grand scheme of signing key players like Kam Chancellor to long term deals ... but I don't like this move -- not for 2 future round 5th's. No way.
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  • Largent80 wrote:Squirrels anyone?

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  • Hawkscanner wrote:
    Bigpumpkin wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:
    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!


    Exactly right -- given the package the Hawks are actually getting back for Flynn, I don't see the need to even tread anywhere close to Golgotha. We're talking about a Super Bowl contender and all of a sudden we've got a hole. Are people seriously more comfortable with the idea of Tyler Thigpen at QB if Wilson goes down ... or god forbid Matt Leinart? I get it that this is all about Cap Savings and how this fits in with the grand scheme of signing key players like Kam Chancellor to long term deals ... but I don't like this move -- not for 2 future round 5th's. No way.


    That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.
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  • I am 60/40 on this trade. Here is why:

    The people talking like backups don't matter, and that we are out of contention if Wilson gets hurt, etc etc, they are missing a vital piece of the argument. Yes, I agree that almost any team would be sunk if their QB goes down, and they have to rely on their backup for the majority of the season. What if that stud QB gets hurt, and only misses a handful of weeks? IMO, you don't have a backup on the team to step in and take over for the season. That successfully occurs so rarely we can affectively rule that out of the conversation. But having a backup that can come in and win 2-3 games in a 4-5 game stretch CAN be the difference between making the playoffs or sitting at home in January. It seems to me that people are writing off having a decent backup much too quickly, without looking at the all the factors that might come into play.

    It remains to be seen who they replace Flynn with, so I reserve full judgment until that point. If we replace Flynn with a Thigpen, Leinart, or anything from the bargain bin (Young), I think it would be a mistake. Hopefully this means we will draft a mid to late round QB, and start the process of building our own QB factory.

    The compensation aspect of this trade is neither here nor there, IMO. Anyone who thought we would get more than a couple of late round picks was delusional. Two 5ths is about where I figured it would be, if they did pull the trigger. Fortunately, I have complete confidence that our FO will be able to hit on at least one of those picks, and ultimately make this trade worth it.

    In order for me to think this was a win across the board for the Hawks, they would have to draft a competent QB, and make good on one of the two picks. I think the likelihood of those things happening is quite high, so I am cautiously optimistic about this trade. It is not without some risk though.
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  • pehawk wrote:That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


    If that's the reason, I certainly can understand that. I remember several years ago when the Mariners traded Jamie Moyer to the Phillies it was for the same basic reason. Moyer was promised that if an opportunity ever came along for him to go to a serious World Series contender that the team would honor him by dealing him to that team. If that's what's going on here (in essence, a class move by the Seahawks in sending him to a place where Flynn honestly has an opportunity to start) then I can buy that. I'd actually stand up and applaud the Hawks organization if that's their rationale. I still wouldn't 100% LOVE it ... but I could stand by it.
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  • But we haven't even come to the draft yet. We have seen mid-round picks step in and play well when first-string QBs were injured. Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins just happened last year.

    What if the Seahawks get Matt Scott and he turns out to be the perfect read-option backup? I mean, can we wait until AFTER the draft to see if the Seahawks are selling the QB2 position short?

    I agree that a QB2 that can step in and win a half or a game or two is important to have, but we still have what feels like about nine years of offseason before that becomes important, and I'm sure our FO is going to take care of it (I think they will in the draft).
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:

    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    It is a cap issue. Everyone is focusing on this $4million to trade him and $7.25 million to keep him which LOOKS like a $3.25 million saving but it is not the right way to look at it.

    If you keep him this year you are adding $3.25 million AND you either pay $4million when you cut him next year or $2 million if you trade him next year (nobody trades for a 1 year contract) or you pay $8.25 million

    So it really sheds realistically between $7.25 million and $11.5 million - that is a whole lof of money to spend on someone else
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    EDIT: I disagree with Peahawk on this. He apparently thinks that eating that much money isn't a big deal and we just did it to be nice to Flynn. I disagree :D
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  • Flynn preparing for Oakland.

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  • Bigpumpkin wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:
    No, what I'm saying is that Flynn's value to the Seahawks for this year (i.e. to have a competent back-up QB in case the unthinkable happens and Wilson goes down for any length of time) is worth far more to a Super Bowl contending team than 2 future 5th Round Picks IMO.


    Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!

    the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.
    If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

    If the market can't bear more, they did this as a favor to Flynn. That I can live with, provided it doesn't bite us in the butt when, not if, Wilson goes down.
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  • pehawk wrote:That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


    Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.
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  • Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

    What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?
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  • NinerLifer wrote:Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

    What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


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  • NinerLifer wrote:Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

    What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


    You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.
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  • Largent80 wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

    What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


    You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.


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  • NinerLifer wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:Congrats on freeing up some cap space. I'm sure your FO is happy to have it after finding out RW was the guy after paying a pretty penny for Flynn. You guys got about what I thought you would get for him. I know a lot of you guys wanted and thought he was worth at least a 2nd, but I imagine it was easy for the Raiders to give up only a couple of late rounders for a QB that hasn't really proven much yet.

    What have you guys heard in regards a possible replacement to back up RW?


    You, because, a backup isn't needed and Wilson is going to kick your ass.


    He'll ya, where do I sign? I will gladly agree to the league minimum to do nothing.


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  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    pehawk wrote:That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


    Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.


    There is no doubt that the market for Flynn was only worth next to nothing, a fifth next year is worth a sixth on this one, the 2015th pick is worth nothing. What is not clear is why Seattle agreed to sell.

    Without extra picks this year we basically loose a pick if we draft a qb, the 2.5m cap space we save won't buy a decent backup free agent this year. The cardinals get a quarterback that is bounds better than anything they were going to. The only thing the Seahawks get for this trade is some cap relief NEXT year, about 4m.

    They did this trade to do right by Flynn and to the detriment of the Seahawks. I do not like it.
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  • I think this is more than just draft picks and cap space. I think this sends a message to future free agents that as long as you do what is in the best interest of the team, the team will take into consideration your best interest.
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  • As a seahawks fan I don't like this deal. As stated 100 times already, I think having a great backup is worth more than what we got.

    With that said, I am glad Flynn is going somewhere else to get another shot. The guy really hasn't been able to catch a break his whole career, college included, yet when given the chance he is great. I am confident he is going to be a great qb in this league, even on a team as crappy as the Raiders.
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  • Just heard on the radio, Flynn is actually getting increased guaranteed money from the Raiders? That is what the hold up was? Not how much he was going to cut from his contract, but what he was adding to it? Crazy if this is true.
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  • They made it a three year agreement. While they increased guaranteed money it was most likely this years salary turned into signing bonus. Makes it guaranteed but also lowers the cap hit.

    Win-win
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  • Yeah, I assume they'll be able to spread his 2013 salary (now fully guaranteed) over the life of the contract, which helps their cap in '13. His restructured contract pays him the same overall money per Sando.
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    Bigpumpkin wrote:
    Hindsight is always 20/20....John and Pete will be "crucified" on .net if RW goes down!! If he says healthy.......we'll call them geniuses!

    the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.
    If it's a salary dump, then the signing was stupid in the first place. They rationalized it as they're spending X dollars on a starter and a backup. That amount was actually pretty low for a starter and backup. So saying they need to dump salary is saying they screwed up getting Flynn.

    If the market can't bear more, they did this as a favor to Flynn. That I can live with, provided it doesn't bite us in the butt when, not if, Wilson goes down.


    Um, that wasn't true the first time you posted it. You should stop saying it.
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  • seahawksTopGear wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    pehawk wrote:That's why I'm pretty sure the deal was 100% about doing right by Flynn. It's just an unnecessary this year to trade him...they didn't have to yet.


    Sorry, but the NFL is a business. People get fired if they don't perform, the Hawks did it because it was best for the Hawks...... Clearly Flynn was only worth two 5th round picks. The NFL dictated that LOUD AND CLEAR....there was one team interested in Flynn. He may be worth a first round pick to many in the .net, but that is fantasy land.


    There is no doubt that the market for Flynn was only worth next to nothing, a fifth next year is worth a sixth on this one, the 2015th pick is worth nothing. What is not clear is why Seattle agreed to sell.

    Without extra picks this year we basically loose a pick if we draft a qb, the 2.5m cap space we save won't buy a decent backup free agent this year. The cardinals get a quarterback that is bounds better than anything they were going to. The only thing the Seahawks get for this trade is some cap relief NEXT year, about 4m.

    They did this trade to do right by Flynn and to the detriment of the Seahawks. I do not like it.


    Savings next year is between 6.5-8.5 million. And 3.5 million this year.

    And again . . . Screw the value chart. 5th round picks are 5th round picks regardless of what year they are in.

    And we have extra picks, inc.uding a 7th round pick we acquired for Tavaris Jackson. In fact, we've got 3 extra picks this year, and less spots than ever for rookies to make the team. picking a QB or two this year is easy pickings.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:
    I'm not saying the QB is not the most important player on the field; only that he's not the ONLY player on the field. History backs me up; a backup QB can get you to the SB.


    History does not back you up. You pointed out the exception, not the rule. If 10 of the previous 15 Superbowl winners were with journeymen backups, then your point would be valid. Just saying that it's POSSIBLE that we can get to the Superbowl with a backup QB because it happened 5-6 times in 40 years doesn't mean anything other than it's statistically possible.

    Here are the facts, the last 10 Superbowl winning QB's were;

    Brady
    Brady
    Roethlisberger
    Petyon Manning
    Eli Manning
    Roethlisberger
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Eli Manning
    Flacco

    ALL of these QB's are considered Elite QB's, or at least in the top 6-7 of the entire league. Can you get the SB without an elite QB? Sure. What are the odds of that happening? Slim to none.


    Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention Brady, he was also a backup.

    When you say we cannot make it to the SB with RW, that is an absolute. I pointed out that it is not an absolute.

    Backup QBs have taken their team(s) to the SB in the past, and most likely will do it again. Fact!!
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  • Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).
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  • 2 future 5ths is better then having them now. How many roster spots do we have this year to accomodate draft picks? Not many. We could draft a Sherman in this years 5th and he could end up getting cut. If anything drafting a good 5th would be more useful after a deep playoff/possible superbowl run because there WILL be cap casualties nin the aftermath and therefore more holes to fill with JS and PC's miracle picks.

    I don't like any of the FA backups. But I wouldn't care if JS pursued them. I'd personally rather take my chances in the 4th round or later and target someone like Jordan Rodgers, who is mobile, improved during his college career, and had success on a weak Vanderbilt team. I want somebody with a chip on their shoulder that's going to want to prove he can make it as a possible starter in the NFL and LEARN from a master at bettering his game in Russell Wilson.

    Wish Flynn success, but the NFL is a business and a hard one. We need the cap savings to reload next year. Locking up Thomas, and hopefully Sherman is that much easier without a 2 year, $11m dollar insurance policy like a monkey on our back. Is it a gamble? Absolutely. But a gambler isn't someone who just risks everything willy nilly. A gambler is what Kenny Roger's described, someone who "knows when to hold 'em, and knows when to fold 'em."

    I would rather be in position to keep our team together and dominant for multiple SB tries then to find out whether Flynn's very small sample size of starts translates to his walking on water with concrete shoes while chewing gum and generating enough TDs to feed 5000 receivers, or disappoints as a grossly overpaid crank yanking grump with elbow issues that would make us wish RW played through injury.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



    Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:
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  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



    Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:


    edited for language attacking poster
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).



    Man, I had been talking like that all year last year and got slammed for it..... :34853_doh:




    True, I must find a new thing to obsess about.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


    I don't necessarily trust/distrust Flynn over a four game stretch. I certainly trust him more than a guy like Thigpen, Leinart, or Young. I am not sure if Flynn is a 3-1 type guy, but I wouldn't doubt he is a 2-2 type backup. I think the amount of money you are paying for a backup that is notably better than Flynn isn't any different than the money you are saving by trading him. That is the catch for me, on that side of the equation. I don't think Flynn is a world beater by any stretch, and never was sold on him as a starter in this league. I just think he is marginally better than anybody out on the market at this point in time, and it isn't exactly cost prohibitive to keep him.
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  • From Flynnsanity to Flynnsignificant.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:Last year, there was no real market for Flynn. Even his old OC wasn't interested in grabbing him at a reasonable price (since we gave him a pretty low-end deal for a starter).

    He gets beat out by a rookie, albeit a rookie phenom who would have been out damn near any journeyman the NFL had to offer.

    This year, there is again no real market for Flynn, and trades are complicated by his cap number and the number of average guys flooding the market (Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Hasselbeck, Campbell, etc.). Jags aren't interested. Bills picked up Kolb. Vikes picked up Cassel. The potential landing spots for Flynn were almost nil. The only real suitor has an ex-GB guy at GM who knows Flynn better than most front office guys might, and even HE doesn't want to give up more than a couple of future late-rounders for him.

    If all of the above isn't a plethora of evidence that plenty of .NET folks vastly overrated Flynn, I don't know what is. Face it, guys... he was NEVER worth a high pick. He has NEVER proven himself to be a starting caliber QB. The fact that we rented him for a year and still turned it into two extra picks in a market when we had next to no leverage is outstanding.

    As for the complaints about what might happen if we lose Wilson for a few games in October, well, I'll just say that I'm not in the camp that thinks that Flynn would have us go 3-1 while everyone else would result in a 0-4 record over that stretch. I don't trust Flynn any more than I trust Thigpen or some other journeyman (or even precocious rookie, for that matter).


    Bingo.

    Not sure why some Hawk fans add extra talent to certain players just because they're on our roster. If Flynn was the backup QB in Detroit or somewhere, no one on here would second guess a 5th rounder and conditional pick for a journeyman backup with all of two games starting under his belt.
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  • i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM
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  • Exittium wrote:i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


    This is all based on the assumption that Flynn is really quite decent. What if he isn't? And what if they replace Flynn with somebody even better?
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  • Exittium wrote:i don't agree with this move at all... period, i love when the hawks get over confident in their QB, yes lets sacrifice some quality and depth to our QB.... "shrug" look at Hassleback.. once he was injured.. suck fest, T jack.. Injured suckfest.. These are times which leaves me thinking.. wtf are they thinking? Those draft picks being "Late" doesn't help almost makes me at times rethink of weather I'm a fan or just someone who's now annoyed and tired of everything Washington State based team thinking they'll go far with the MINIMUM


    Wow. This comment is like you haven't even paid attention to what John and Pete have accomplished in three years. If you have this little of faith from the two guys that have turned over an entire roster that was 4-10 and going nowhere to a Superbowl favorite team, then there's no hope for you.
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:the average number of QB's that don't miss a single game all season due to injury: 1 out of 4. It's not genius. They better come up with a good backup. Having Flynn was worth more than two fifths.


    Where did you get that stat from?

    For a good example, my reckoning is that there were 21 QBs last year who started 16 games, and a further 4 who missed a combined 6 starts (Griffin, Palmer, Cutler & Roethlisberger who accounts for 3 of those missed starts). The remaining 7 teams comprise of the likes of Jacksonville, the Jets, Arizona, San Francisco who had fit QBs that they chose to bench, and the remaining 3 of the Chiefs, Titans and Eagles who had genuine injuries to players.

    Still, 24 teams who had their starting QB for 14+ games. You're suggesting paying 7-8 million for a player who has a 25% chance of having to play for >2 games. And in reality, probably even less chance than that considering we employ arguably the most elusive QB in the league in terms of avoiding contact, and whose size probably helps him in terms of injury likelihood
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  • My only gripe is that the 2014 pick is not also conditional. I realize that few, if any, people really believe Flynn and OAK are going to pull of a miracle season, but if he does and turns out to be a solid starter then we should be getting a higher pick, period. If the probability is so low, then it should not have been a difficult deal point. Without knowing what picks Oak even has in 2014, it seems fair if it was a 5th that jumps to a 4th if Flynn wins 8 games, 3rd for 10 wins or wildcard spot in playoffs, 2nd for 11 wins or 1st place finish in division, and 1st for 12+ wins or a win in the divisional playoff round.
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