EDIT: Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate....

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  • Russell Wilson DOES run the RO at times, so Tomlin was refering to ANY and ALL teams that utilize it, INCLUDING Russell Wilson, and the Seahawks.
    Pretty obvious to me that, that was his intention/insinuation of this particular matter.
    Some of Y'all do understand, that way back when, Football was primarily played almost exclusively by RUNNING the ball, and that throwing the ball was rare as hens teeth.
    So when the passing sensation (new option) was added, it forever changed how Defenses had to adapt, or fall hopelessly behind because of the new trend spreading like a wild fire.
    The RO is just one more facet of the game, that forces Defenses to re-calibrate, and re-adjust for, and RW will use it to his advantage as he perfects some of the mental elements of what makes it work, and he'll throw out the elements of the option that don't.
    It isn't just about tucking the ball and running willy nilly (old school)
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  • This is getting ridiculous. Everybody just STOP, click on the link, read it, then make a comment.

    For those of you who still refuse to read it, I'll summarize:

    Tomlin: "I don't like the read option. I think it's a fad, and I want my defense to stop it from ever being effective in the NFL again."
    Wilson: "Try."
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  • peachesenregalia wrote:Mike Tomlin can feast on a thousand dicks.


    Ditto, but that applies to all Stealers, owners, employees and or their fans.
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  • Why are you guys getting so worked up about it? If people want to make that connection from Tomlin's comments to Wilson, who cares...
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  • peachesenregalia wrote:Mike Tomlin can feast on a thousand dicks.



    I think he's up for the challenge
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  • Wow. I had no idea popcorn and beer could be so satisfying in the morning/afternoon :snack: .

    Didn't mean to twist panties, just was trying to honestly link to a article with ties to our team. Soo glad a few of you actually took time to click the link and read the article before replying.
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  • This is non news.

    I'm pretty sure every coach wants to eliminate every offense they face.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Tomlin isn't wrong. There will probably never be a time when more than a handful of guys can run a good option/pistol look.

    We faced it three times last year and our defense killed it. The template for stopping it is already out there.


    Everything you said is factual, but I disagree slightly for a couple reasons. Maybe disagree is too strong a word. Maybe "augmenting the argument" would work better.

    #1: Yes, Seattle did stop read option quarterbacks very well last year. However, they did so with a defense that features some very rare athlete types- their linebacker group top to bottom would be among the fastest group of linebackers in this draft. There are only a few linebackers every year that come out with the kind of speed we have. We also have a secondary that is very hard to replicate and is highly dependent on Carroll's incredible player development ability. So yes, if you build a #1 scoring defense with some hard to find parts, you can stop it. But that's not saying much for the rest of the NFL. And FWIW, I am not sure we contain a healthy RG3. When he's 100% he's very hard to stop as a passer but the injury just became too much for him.

    #2: Even Seattle would probably have a very tough time stopping a QB like Russell Wilson out of the read option. Imagine if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were capable of read option- imagine how much of a nightmare that would be to defend. Kaepernick/Newton/RG3 all have great arm talent and are good passers, but Wilson is a complete quarterback that becomes far more deadly with the read option wrinkle. Then you factor the weapons that Wilson has- I say good luck to opposing DCs.

    I don't think the NFL will ever really solve read option. They will probably solve QBs that use read option like a crutch (Kaepernick), but I think RG3, Newton, and especially Wilson will threaten so much as passers that at the end of the day it will just be one more way of offenses opening up in the running game and adding space in the passing attack. You are completely right that these kinds of QBs are very rare, but the teams that have them- this is going to be a big advantage in the long haul because of how it adds an extra responsibility and burden to defenses while simultaneously adding an additional threat on offense.
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  • The reason the Wildcat got solved quickly was because teams figured out that there was a low percentage of completing a pass from that formation and overloaded the box.

    The new read option isn't so easy to combat. You can't stack the box against Wilson, Newton, RG3, or Kaepernick without getting burned. Solving the read option in the NFL defensively means winning the numbers game against the read option, and it is near impossible to do so against a good pocket passer with elite speed.

    You can run your whole offensive playbook out of read option formations. It's not as simple as overloading the box, and therefore won't go away as easily as the wildcat. The reason Seattle did so well defending it, is our unique personell on the defense make it easier to be flexible than other teams, and they had one of the perfect prototypes in Russell Wilson to practice against.

    Seattle can regularly run an 8 man box because ET, Sherm, and Browner can shut down a passing game so effectively on their lonesome. No team can run single high as efficiently IMO.
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  • kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Tomlin isn't wrong. There will probably never be a time when more than a handful of guys can run a good option/pistol look.

    We faced it three times last year and our defense killed it. The template for stopping it is already out there.


    Everything you said is factual, but I disagree slightly for a couple reasons. Maybe disagree is too strong a word. Maybe "augmenting the argument" would work better.

    #1: Yes, Seattle did stop read option quarterbacks very well last year. However, they did so with a defense that features some very rare athlete types- their linebacker group top to bottom would be among the fastest group of linebackers in this draft. There are only a few linebackers every year that come out with the kind of speed we have. We also have a secondary that is very hard to replicate and is highly dependent on Carroll's incredible player development ability. So yes, if you build a #1 scoring defense with some hard to find parts, you can stop it. But that's not saying much for the rest of the NFL. And FWIW, I am not sure we contain a healthy RG3. When he's 100% he's very hard to stop as a passer but the injury just became too much for him.

    #2: Even Seattle would probably have a very tough time stopping a QB like Russell Wilson out of the read option. Imagine if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were capable of read option- imagine how much of a nightmare that would be to defend. Kaepernick/Newton/RG3 all have great arm talent and are good passers, but Wilson is a complete quarterback that becomes far more deadly with the read option wrinkle. Then you factor the weapons that Wilson has- I say good luck to opposing DCs.

    I don't think the NFL will ever really solve read option. They will probably solve QBs that use read option like a crutch (Kaepernick), but I think RG3, Newton, and especially Wilson will threaten so much as passers that at the end of the day it will just be one more way of offenses opening up in the running game and adding space in the passing attack. You are completely right that these kinds of QBs are very rare, but the teams that have them- this is going to be a big advantage in the long haul because of how it adds an extra responsibility and burden to defenses while simultaneously adding an additional threat on offense.

    Already, 2 defenses are going to try and replicate Seattle, Jacksonville and Dallas. Our unique player profile is the future. Will they be successful? Anybodies guess.

    2nd, ours is not the only way to stop it. My guess is that Tomlin would stop it the same way a slowish defense like the Ravens did: just hit the QB everytime he runs the option, and make the refs protect the QB.

    My guess is more teams will do the 2nd option.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:2nd, ours is not the only way to stop it. My guess is that Tomlin would stop it the same way a slowish defense like the Ravens did: just hit the QB everytime he runs the option, and make the refs protect the QB.

    My guess is more teams will do the 2nd option.


    Dangerous because the superbowl was under officiated simply because it was the superbowl.
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  • Lady Talon wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:2nd, ours is not the only way to stop it. My guess is that Tomlin would stop it the same way a slowish defense like the Ravens did: just hit the QB everytime he runs the option, and make the refs protect the QB.

    My guess is more teams will do the 2nd option.


    Dangerous because the superbowl was under officiated simply because it was the superbowl.


    Also dangerous for the QB who runs the pistol option. 15 yards is a small price to pay to either remove a playcall from the opponents call sheet or remove their QB from the game.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Lady Talon wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:2nd, ours is not the only way to stop it. My guess is that Tomlin would stop it the same way a slowish defense like the Ravens did: just hit the QB everytime he runs the option, and make the refs protect the QB.

    My guess is more teams will do the 2nd option.


    Dangerous because the superbowl was under officiated simply because it was the superbowl.


    Also dangerous for the QB who runs the pistol option. 15 yards is a small price to pay to either remove a playcall from the opponents call sheet or remove their QB from the game.


    He doesn't run it full time, and is smarter with his body then the other 3 option runners. He could just as easily get blindsided and crushed in the pocket out of a standard offense. Kaepernick one reads way to often, and Gore's effectiveness out of the pistol isn't Lynch's (or what we expect Harvin's will be) either.
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  • Lady Talon wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    Lady Talon wrote:Dangerous because the superbowl was under officiated simply because it was the superbowl.


    Also dangerous for the QB who runs the pistol option. 15 yards is a small price to pay to either remove a playcall from the opponents call sheet or remove their QB from the game.


    He doesn't run it full time, and is smarter with his body then the other 3 option runners. He could just as easily get blindsided and crushed in the pocket out of a standard offense. Kaepernick one reads way to often, and Gore's effectiveness out of the pistol isn't Lynch's (or what we expect Harvin's will be) either.

    Agreed. I'm just telling you what I think is going to happen. I like the pistol offense we run, and I don't think it's a fad like the wildcat. It presents real mismatch opportunities. But I also think some defensive coordinators are going to attack it at the source. The QB.
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:This is turning out to be quite an entertaining hit and run by the OP. Still waiting for him to return to the scene of the crime and change the title of this thread.

    Afterall, the OP is inferring that if they stop the read option, they stop Wilson. Since Wilson's name never even came up in the article he linked to, the OP is the one making that outlandish claim, not Tomlin. But it is funny watching people comment on an article they obviously never even read. It's like a domino effect of knee jerk reactions.

    Well played sir. Well played.


    What? The title of the article is "Russell Wilson: Mobile QBs add new dimension to NFL"

    The first 3 lines read:

    Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin called the read-option offense the "flavor of the day" in the NFL. He doesn't believe it will have lasting success in the NFL.

    "We look forward to stopping it," Tomlin said. "We look forward to eliminating it."

    Quarterback Russell Wilson and the Seattle Seahawks didn't lean on the read-option until late last season, but they were very effective when they broke it out.


    Tomlin might not have said the exact quote "I want to eliminate Russell Wilson", but it's hardly a reach by the OP to suggest it considering the context of the article. The OP has just parroted the words of Gregg Rosenthal

    The title of THIS thread is: Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate Russell Wilson....

    Tomlin is only talking about eliminating the read option. Rosenthal, not Tomlin, uses Russell Wilson as an example. It is Rosenthal who is equating the read option with Russell Wilson.

    Everyone on here is getting all worked up at Tomlin as if he said he was going to eliminate Russell Wilson.

    You all are acting with knee jerk reactions to the title of the thread. The title of the thread is misleading. The article by Rosenthal is about Tomlin stopping the read option, not eliminating russell wilson.

    Let's look at those first three lines. This is how Bush led our country into war with Iraq, by talking about Saddam and Iraq, then throwing in something totally extraneous about the threat of nuclear war, etc. All the while saying he never actually said Iraq had WMD's.



    Since Wilson's name never even came up in the article he linked to, the OP is the one making that outlandish claim, not Tomlin.


    "Russell" and "Wilson" are the very first two words in the article title, let alone in the actual article.. What Tomlin said is irrelevant right now. You accused the OP of linking to an article that doesn't MENTION Russell Wilson (those are your exact words quoted above), when it's quite clear he's linked to an article digesting Tomlin's quotes and applying them to Russell Wilson.
    The only thing the OP has suggested himself is that Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate Russell Wilson. And that's not wrong.
    If Richard Sherman said he thought the Hawks will win every game next year (hardly a reach considering his confidence) and on one of the niner boards someone said "Sherman thinks the Seahawks will sweep the Niners" it wouldn't be a misquote. It's simply a smaller part of a greater whole,
    Now if you said "the OP linked to an OPINION piece that suggests Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate Russell Wilson, good show OP", maybe then I wouldn't have said anything.
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  • I just want to eliminate Tomlin and his Steelers. This will be the first time in my football history that I actually root for Pittsburgh to reach the SB.

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  • I'm with Hawkwow. I really want to crush the Stealers this year. And I mean physically crush them, crush their spirit, and make them cry to the NFL like Jerry Jones and Harbaugh did last year.

    I'm also with the other posters on this: this really affects the Hawks less than other R/O teams because we only use it as an aspect of our offense, not our total offense.

    I'd also like to see Tomlin stop a really good R/O team with his current aging and slow defense. His DE's are getting too slow to stop a really athletic QB and I think a good R/O team would rip up the Stealers next year.
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  • Hawks46 wrote:I'm with Hawkwow. I really want to crush the Stealers this year. And I mean physically crush them, crush their spirit, and make them cry to the NFL like Jerry Jones and Harbaugh did last year.

    I'm also with the other posters on this: this really affects the Hawks less than other R/O teams because we only use it as an aspect of our offense, not our total offense.

    I'd also like to see Tomlin stop a really good R/O team with his current aging and slow defense. His DE's are getting too slow to stop a really athletic QB and I think a good R/O team would rip up the Stealers next year.


    Totally. They are beginning that downward spiral and it will likely be quite some time before they return as legit contenders. If they were smart, they'd start gearing up for that now. Get rid of the rapist, Troy, etc. and start grooming the next wave. I think Denver will dominate the AFC (until Peyton bails) but I'm not counting out NE and certainly not Baltimore just yet. The reports of the Ravens demise has been grossly exaggerated. They may be even better this year.
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  • Stealers will be irrelevant for the near future, his defense won't be stopping anyone anyhow, non issue!
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  • I read his words as: "If my QB wasn't so tall, fat, and dumb, I would be doing this too..."
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  • SmokinHawk wrote:I read his words as: "If my QB wasn't so tall, fat, and dumb, I would be doing this too..."



    Best post in this thread.
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  • SmokinHawk wrote:I read his words as: "If my QB wasn't so tall, fat, and dumb, I would be doing this too..."

    Bingo!
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Already, 2 defenses are going to try and replicate Seattle, Jacksonville and Dallas. Our unique player profile is the future. Will they be successful? Anybodies guess.

    2nd, ours is not the only way to stop it. My guess is that Tomlin would stop it the same way a slowish defense like the Ravens did: just hit the QB everytime he runs the option, and make the refs protect the QB.

    My guess is more teams will do the 2nd option.


    I think that is very well what might happen, but I don't think it will work. Sure, RG3 is made of glass. But Wilson takes few hits and when he does, he always seems to avoid the worst of it. Newton and Kaepernick are nearly comparable to Megatron in terms of size/speed but at quarterback. You could smack Kaepernick and then watch him run for a 60 yard TD a few plays later if your defense isn't fast enough. I didn't watch a ton of Calorina/49ers games, but I don't really remember either of those guys ever being shaken up from a hit and playing scared afterwards.

    As far as Dallas and Jacksonville, they are both a long, long ways away. I think the next team that will stop the read option might be Chicago if they replace their old veteran LBs with young, quick ones. Perhaps the Rams as well- they seemed to have Seattle contained decently well in that week 17 game. Bottom line, I don't think we'll ever see more than 5-10 defenses in the league that can consistently contain it. The reason Seattle can stop it is mostly because they have the most talented defense in the NFL.
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  • themunn wrote:

    "Russell" and "Wilson" are the very first two words in the article title, let alone in the actual article.. What Tomlin said is irrelevant right now. You accused the OP of linking to an article that doesn't MENTION Russell Wilson (those are your exact words quoted above), when it's quite clear he's linked to an article digesting Tomlin's quotes and applying them to Russell Wilson.
    The only thing the OP has suggested himself is that Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate Russell Wilson. And that's not wrong.
    If Richard Sherman said he thought the Hawks will win every game next year (hardly a reach considering his confidence) and on one of the niner boards someone said "Sherman thinks the Seahawks will sweep the Niners" it wouldn't be a misquote. It's simply a smaller part of a greater whole,
    Now if you said "the OP linked to an OPINION piece that suggests Mike Tomlin wants to eliminate Russell Wilson, good show OP", maybe then I wouldn't have said anything.

    My bad, what I meant wasn't never came up in the article, I meant never came up in the interview. Typo there. Wilson never came up in the discussion with Tomlin.

    And no, that does NOT equate to eliminating Russell Wilson, your analogy with going undefeated is not legitimate, as undefeated results in a sweep. Eliminating the Read Option does not result in eliminating Russell Wilson. Read Option is but a small facet of what he does.

    Anyways, I got a big kick out of this thread. So many people getting all puffed up and out of joint defending RW.
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  • themunn wrote:My bad, what I meant wasn't never came up in the article, I meant never came up in the interview. Typo there. Wilson never came up in the discussion with Tomlin.

    And no, that does NOT equate to eliminating Russell Wilson, your analogy with going undefeated is not legitimate, as undefeated results in a sweep. Eliminating the Read Option does not result in eliminating Russell Wilson. Read Option is but a small facet of what he does.

    Anyways, I got a big kick out of this thread. So many people getting all puffed up and out of joint defending RW.


    Oops, my apologies for jumping on a typo then (which was never my intention!), it just came across as if you hadn't bothered to click on the article.

    And that's a far better worded point, which I agree with totally. Wilson didn't start implementing the read-option stuff properly until the Chicago game - he was 1 incomplete pass from tying the franchise record for consecutive complete passes just 1 week earlier in his rookie season, set by a Hall of Famer with 20 years of experience in professional football.

    I guess the misunderstanding comes from what we believe Tomlin/Rosenthal/the OP mean by eliminate. I would consider taking away the read option as making Wilson "1 dimensional", which is pretty muh the best defenses can hope for. The problem for them is that he's still very good at that dimension.
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  • Tomlin couldn't eliminate a rapist on his own team, no way he comes close to eliminating dangeruss.
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