What's your most annoying anti-Seahawk talking point?

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  • There are a few Seahawks doubters out there, and they've come up with a handful of flimsy excuses for supporting that view. Which of their talking points annoys you the most?

    For me, it's the "Russell Wilson still has to prove himself" line. As if to suggest that Wilson's 2012 season was a fluke, or that he's due for a major regression in 2013 when defenses make adjustments. There are so many things that annoy me about this.

    #1: Wilson is not a gimmick quarterback. He runs one of the most diverse and talented offenses in the NFL. Further, Seattle only passed on 45% of their plays last season. If you wanted to slow Seattle's offense just enough to win, you wouldn't key on Wilson, you'd key on Lynch. Just ask the last two teams to beat Seattle: Miami and Atlanta. Even when Wilson was getting sacked like crazy against the Rams and Redskins, he still posted excellent passer ratings and his offense still scored 20+ points. You can't game plan this guy any more than you can game plan Aaron Rogers, and with his work ethic he's only going to grow. I'd put the odds of a Wilson decline among the lowest of all starting QBs next year.

    #2: What more does he need to do to prove he's a great QB? Did people not watch him last season? Or in the playoffs? Or even in the pro-bowl where he stood tall over some of the league's best? Or even in college, for that matter?

    Granted, I get that normally you'd be cautious about a QB coming off a great season that MOST people (not me) were not expecting. But then again, is Wilson like other QBs? Were people expecting a huge down year in 2002 from Tom Brady? How'd that work out?

    Anyway, that's mine. I could have probably named 5 more. This season is going to be fun proving the few remaining doubters and cynics wrong.
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  • Cheaty Petey...
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  • can't win against elite teams on the road
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  • That Wilson landed on the easiest team for a young QB to win with.

    If that were true, why didn't they think Flynn would get us more then an 8-8?
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:Cheaty Petey...



    This really chaps my ass. Or the adderall jokes. Please...
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  • For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.

    Wilson is going to have to get better from the pocket, and some point is going to have to make it easy on himself by hitting a few quick rhythm passes every now and again. We now have a receiver that can get open on a slant or dig, so hopefully we start to see some easy 1st down passes. You can't survive forever making things happen with your feet, at least, I don't think you can. Can Wilson do the dance forever?

    Again, I have very little doubt that Wilson will adapt adequately, but I'm not willing to put him in the hall of fame after his first time through the league.

    On topic, I can't really think of anything. I'm not hearing too many anti-Hawk folks out there. The oddsmakers have us as the favorites to win it all along with the 49ers, and we're at or near the top in just about every power ranking out there. There just isn't much you can say. We're stacked.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:Cheaty Petey...


    That would have been my #2.

    Tical21 wrote:For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.

    Wilson is going to have to get better from the pocket, and some point is going to have to make it easy on himself by hitting a few quick rhythm passes every now and again. We now have a receiver that can get open on a slant or dig, so hopefully we start to see some easy 1st down passes. You can't survive forever making things happen with your feet, at least, I don't think you can. Can Wilson do the dance forever?

    Again, I have very little doubt that Wilson will adapt adequately, but I'm not willing to put him in the hall of fame after his first time through the league.

    On topic, I can't really think of anything. I'm not hearing too many anti-Hawk folks out there. The oddsmakers have us as the favorites to win it all along with the 49ers, and we're at or near the top in just about every power ranking out there. There just isn't much you can say. We're stacked.


    According to Sando's breakdown, Wilson was actually better in the pocket than outside of it.

    The games where Wilson struggled the most was when teams collapsed the pocket from the interior and not only took away his ability to step up but also closed his passing lanes. I also thought the Rams and Redskins did a wonderful job containing the gaps with their DL to punish Wilson when he tried to take off- but both have terrific pass rushing lines and few teams can do that.

    I'm not saying that Wilson is infallible, but the only defenses I can really see giving him problems are the ones with elite pass rushing defensive lines. And even in those instances, he still played highly efficient football, he just scored a few less points.
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  • Sorry, I'm not savvy enough to quote properly on this site yet. But in retort, I know you watch all the games and break them down in a very similar way that I do. You know as well as I do when Wilson is at his best and what he struggles with. He held the ball longer than any other starting QB in the NFL. I guess I would disagree with Sando as far as what qualifies as a pocket pass. Dropping back ten yards, dodging two rushers, and hitting a late crossing route still qualifies as a pocket pass, but that is far different from dissecting a defense from the pocket. With numbers like those, you have no choice but to use the eyeball test.

    I do agree that the Rams had a terrific gameplan for Wilson. If they had more defensive talent, that game could have been much uglier than it was. We're going to see a lot of that this year. Percy will help, and Wilson will adjust. All I'm saying is that there are more tests he's going to have to pass before we can declare him a mainstay in the elite QB category. Again, he's well on his way and EVERYTHING looks promising, but at the same time, there are quite a few things he hasn't done yet.
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  • For me, it is the can't win on the road label.

    Yes, historically they have been weaker on the road, and they posted a meager 3-5 in the regular season last year . . . But,
    that 3-5 was front loaded, with a QB who was being muzzled while the coaches figured out what they had. Also, don't forget that even with a muzzle dRussel, the 'Hawks were IN every single opne of those games . . . a play or 2 made instead of dropped, and we could have been 6-2 on the road.
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  • Tical21 wrote:For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.


    That's because they were attacking the weakness of our offensive line - the guard position, so Wilson HAD to escape the pocket to avoid being sacked.
    Wilson has proven he is stronger passing from the pocket, so such defensive attacks would be playing into our strengths rather than vice versa.

    Also, the way Wilson spins backwards to avoid pressure is the most beautiful thing in football
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  • Good topic.

    For me, I used to get teased for wearing Seahawks garb around by people actually living in the Seattle area! I mean, it just wasn't cool to be a Hawks fan for so many folks out there. All of the names we used to hear like "Seabags" (et. al.) made being a fan an unpopular choice. Like having to wear Toughskin jeans rather than Hash jeans, back in the day. It was almost like Seahawks fans were a lower class of folks. None of those feelings apply anymore.

    I could say my degree of fandom has additional merit for having hung in there for so many years, but the kind of person I am just wont let me. I could hold a bit of distain for folks who just became Seahawks fans in the past six months saying, "where were you in 2009 bro?", but I'm not doing that either. No, I'm going to take the high road and forgive the bashers of the 80's, and welcome the newly-awakened folks warmly. So much more satisfaction in that than the alternative.

    So, I suppose the thing bothering me now is... Well.... Nothing. I can honestly say I'm happier than a Mark Hamill look-alike at a Comic Con.
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  • We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/
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  • our db's get away with more contact downfield then any other team... i've debated this several times ... like the league decided we're going to let seattle, a nobody team way over there in the PNW get away with more hand checking and grabbing then any other team this season.. just nonsense....
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  • TheRealDTM wrote:We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/


    :D
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  • I have two:

    The notion that regardless of the front office, coaching staff, recent wins, recent formidable stats, and the relative wealth of competitive playmakers, the Seahawks are undeserving of respect simply because they so far have zero Lombardis while opposing Team B homer fan's team has 50,000. Hey -- that was then. This is now.

    The other, that Seahawks have historically been perpetual "basement dwellers." Wrong. They've often been 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7. Idiots!
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  • #1. Wilson is a running QB. This was a fallacy taken as gospel during the draft process. It has persisted throughout his rookie year and even into this postseason. At this point, I just consider people that say this to be complete media aping morons with zero actual knowledge of what he is. It's like a big scarlet M.

    #2. "There's no smiling in FOOTBALL!" Pete is a rah rah coach. This is another one of those, "I see video highlights of him smiling and jumping on the sidelines. Blasphemy!!!" type reactions. It's kind of laughable really. Apparently the only acceptable demeanor that a coach must employ, is the "Someone pissed in my cereal this morning" puckered and constipated demeanor of Emperor Palpatine -- err sorry Coach Belichick.

    These two are the biggest ones. It's like a hater's wet dream. To see both Wilson and Carroll fail because they have the nerve to break the mold. These types of fans are so easy to spot. They seem almost dogmatically incapable of seeing these guys as genuine. They typically frame their bile in comments framed around their imminent and predictable failure.
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  • Yep. The whole Russell is not a real QB argument. Comments I've seen from just today.

    Pocket passer? You're out of your mind. He can't even see over the tops of the linemens heads. He Runs, thats it.

    Russel Wilson is not a real quarterback. Real quarterbacks play from the pocket. Scrambling is for cowards.

    Shut up and play Russell. The wildcat brought lots of excitement to the game too, where is it today?
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  • Anyone who does not acknowledge that the superbowl that shall not be named was influenced by the mafia.
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  • Seahawks are a weak road team. I don't think it's so much that we are weak on the road. It's that we just have such a heavy home field advantage, and it's very difficult to win on the road period.

    Given our schedule Home Vs Away for this upcoming season. I can EASILY see the same argument being made. We could realistically go 8-0 at home this year vs teams like the Jags and Titans, and the hardest teams really being the Saints and Niners. Where as on the road we challenge the Falcons, Giants, Texans, Colts, Niners. Four teams that just made playoffs and one that recently one a SB. Despite how strong our team is, we could still realistically end up with a measly 2-6 or 4-4 road schedule if things don't play out right. And people will go right back to saying "Same Seahawks, Weak on the Road" despite looking at the difference in opponents faced on the road vs home.

    Realistically I see us going 6-2 (or 7-1) Home and 5-3 Road (or 4-4), which puts us at best 12-4 and worst 10-6. And the critics will still say "weak road team". That's my 2 cents.
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  • I have two that are tied:

    1.) Pete Carroll is a bad coach and slinked out of USC to avoid going "down with the ship" - well duh. Pete is a smart guy, and a BILLIONAIR offered to make him one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL. As a man who takes care of his family as well as involves himself in an incredible amount of charity work, trying to say that he is disloyal/a cheat because he took that rather than staying at USC to face sanctions and bowl bans is completely ridiculous and reeks of jealousy. That would have made him a FOOL. So people critique him for doing what's best for his family? Isn't that the point of basically ...well. . . everything?

    2.) Seahawks home games have piped in crowd noise - this comes up now and again. It's pathetic.
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  • kearly wrote:There are a few Seahawks doubters out there, and they've come up with a handful of flimsy excuses for supporting that view. Which of their talking points annoys you the most?

    For me, it's the "Russell Wilson still has to prove himself" line. As if to suggest that Wilson's 2012 season was a fluke, or that he's due for a major regression in 2013 when defenses make adjustments. There are so many things that annoy me about this.

    #1: Wilson is not a gimmick quarterback. He runs one of the most diverse and talented offenses in the NFL. Further, Seattle only passed on 45% of their plays last season. If you wanted to slow Seattle's offense just enough to win, you wouldn't key on Wilson, you'd key on Lynch. Just ask the last two teams to beat Seattle: Miami and Atlanta. Even when Wilson was getting sacked like crazy against the Rams and Redskins, he still posted excellent passer ratings and his offense still scored 20+ points. You can't game plan this guy any more than you can game plan Aaron Rogers, and with his work ethic he's only going to grow. I'd put the odds of a Wilson decline among the lowest of all starting QBs next year.

    #2: What more does he need to do to prove he's a great QB? Did people not watch him last season? Or in the playoffs? Or even in the pro-bowl where he stood tall over some of the league's best? Or even in college, for that matter?

    Granted, I get that normally you'd be cautious about a QB coming off a great season that MOST people (not me) were not expecting. But then again, is Wilson like other QBs? Were people expecting a huge down year in 2002 from Tom Brady? How'd that work out?

    Anyway, that's mine. I could have probably named 5 more. This season is going to be fun proving the few remaining doubters and cynics wrong.



    - I love RW, but I'll admit I'm not going to go screaming he's the next Elite Quarterback from his first season because we've seen so many great quarterbacks hit Sophomore slumps and perhaps not even return to great measure. But I do look forward to his future, and I think he will prepare well enough to not let that happen.

    - As for him not being a pocket passer, I'll admit, I was also concerned about that, until the Falcons game where he really did just sit in the pocket and start doing the traditional QB thing. Which he did wonderfully. So I'm not worried about it anymore.
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  • Tical21 wrote:Sorry, I'm not savvy enough to quote properly on this site yet. But in retort, I know you watch all the games and break them down in a very similar way that I do. You know as well as I do when Wilson is at his best and what he struggles with. He held the ball longer than any other starting QB in the NFL. I guess I would disagree with Sando as far as what qualifies as a pocket pass. Dropping back ten yards, dodging two rushers, and hitting a late crossing route still qualifies as a pocket pass, but that is far different from dissecting a defense from the pocket. With numbers like those, you have no choice but to use the eyeball test.

    I do agree that the Rams had a terrific gameplan for Wilson. If they had more defensive talent, that game could have been much uglier than it was. We're going to see a lot of that this year. Percy will help, and Wilson will adjust. All I'm saying is that there are more tests he's going to have to pass before we can declare him a mainstay in the elite QB category. Again, he's well on his way and EVERYTHING looks promising, but at the same time, there are quite a few things he hasn't done yet.


    If you want Wilson to stay in the pocket more, where he is a highly rated passer, Seattle's offensive line will have to get a lot better. According to Football Outsiders we had some of the worst pass blocking in the NFL last year. Wilson is holding on to the ball and leaving the pocket because that's the high percentage play. Since he holds the major college record for passer rating, I'm going to trust his decision making.
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  • Wilson got better every week and led the league in most stats the second half of the season and finished in the top 5 . Here's why Wilson will NOT have problems next year Accuracy Intelligence Work Ethic. Honestly this whole thing about defensive adjusments is just garbage they tried everything to stop Wilson last year. No one had an answer for our offense the second half of the season.
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  • Never let them know you're annoyed.
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  • 1. Wilson is not a good pocket passer. UNTRUE. Similar ratings inside and outside the pocket.

    2. Wilson doesn't target receivers down the middle. UNTRUE. Most of his TD's were from plays where he threw down the middle.

    3. Wilson is a run-first QB. UNTRUE. How many designed run-plays were drawn up for Wilson? I don't recall many. And one needs to only look at the SF game where embarrassed their D, that he's constantly scrambling and looking downfield before running, usually as a last resort.

    4. Wilson will be injured often because he runs so much. UNTRUE. I don't think I've seen a smarter QB on the run. He'll get as many yards as he can with his legs then he usually slides or runs out of bounds. I've only seen him take a decent hit several times. Definitely much less than a less mobile QB.

    5. CB's won't be as good without the help of adderall. Really? It may help them with film studying but did ya see how Sherman tore it up after it came out his UA had traces of adderall in it?

    6. Wilson wont be able to do too much once teams have a full year of his film to study. Why couldn't AZ,STL, SF figure him out the second time they played? Only STL was able to hold him back a little. Also the Skins and ATL had a full slate of reg season film to study and he still picked them apart later in the game.

    7. Sherman is a diva and will be a locker room cancer. I can honestly say, no way in hell that happens. This guy is the voice for the D, and his teammates love him. He's a smart, calculated businessman along with an incredible defender. He knows how to build his name up.
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  • SNDavidson wrote:Anyone who does not acknowledge that the superbowl that shall not be named was influenced by the mafia.


    I do not acknowledge this.

    I dont think I really have anything specific that annoys me. Mostly I guess cuz i just don't care what other people have to say about them.
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  • rigelian wrote:Never let them know you're annoyed.


    :229031_confused2:

    Tical21 wrote:I do agree that the Rams had a terrific gameplan for Wilson. If they had more defensive talent, that game could have been much uglier than it was.


    Actually, the Rams were tied for most sacks last year and had a top 10 defense. The reason they even limited Seattle to 20 points is because their defense is very good.

    TheRealDTM wrote:We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/


    They wrote the book, I'm just quoting from it.
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  • Here in Hawaii, and being in a tourist related industry, I see football fans from across the nation on a daily basis (people on vacation like to sport their team jerseys / t-shirts). If anything annoys me as of late, it's my inability to find nay-sayers and the subsequent debate that typically ensues.

    The Niner fans remain the most arrogant, but even with them all I can get is "hey, it's going to be epic every time we play each other". I start hitting them with why they should be very concerned....and they just kinda' agree. Not much fun to be had with them.

    Then you have the bandwagoners; "I've always liked Seattle and I'm happy you guys have what looks like a SB team...when I'm not rooting for my ___________, I'll be rooting for your Hawks"! This domination thing isn't as fun as I had hoped.

    Then you have my bros that are from all over the place. They annoy me the most with "hey, you know I've always rooted for your Hawks, now I may even buy a jersey". I wish I could just jump ship like these people. Been a Hawk fan since the beginning and up to this year, always had to defend the team. Now? Well, it's just annoying.
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  • anything from extremeredskins. they are the most obnoxious fans....hate those d-bags.
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  • Tical21 wrote: Can Wilson do the dance forever?



    Steve Young had a pretty solid career before concussions took him out.
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  • I hate people who say that Wilson is screwed once defenses figure out the read option. It's more like defenses are screwed once they start keeping a linebacker at home to babysit wilson because he'll start picking them apart through the air with the play action (worse than he already does that is).


    That and pretty much anything ever said out loud by 9'er or Skins fans. Horrible horrible excuses for human beings they are...
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  • kearly wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:Cheaty Petey...


    That would have been my #2.

    1a and 1b for me and which goes first depends on the day.
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  • I'm not annoyed by any of it. There just isn't really much "anti-Seahawk" stuff that carries any weight any more. Then you have to consider the source. These days most of that anti-Seahawk stuff is coming from none other than the Niner fan. It is made up garbage to give them peace, so they can sleep at night. They are just mad that in 3 years, the Hawks did what took them 8 and with younger, less expensive players.

    I don't let any of that crap bother me, if it was true or valid, it might, but just the fact that most of it is wishful thinking, mostly on behalf of a rival fan base is enough for me to dismiss it.
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  • I think "Seachickens" is the dumbest nickname I've ever heard. Like come on dude, you couldn't think of something more clever?
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  • TheRealDTM wrote:We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/


    probably true. They seem to have trouble coming up with ideas on their own.
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  • To me its when they say that PC never made it in the NFL before so therefore he is a failure. Or, they say he is a bum coach because he spends too much time being a players coach.
    I am equally as happy for PC as Dangeruss Wilson.
    Want a laugh, go back and look at the bleacher report on our 2012 draft and how they gave they Hawks a big "F" for a lousy draft. Hahaha. It is really funny now. Funny thing was I kind of agreed with them. PC and JS know their dodo.
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  • Most of the classic ones have already been said, but the one that pisses me off the most in this offseason is the perception that Seattle is selling out for the present and have put themselves in future cap hell that will result in a return to mediocrity.

    Get real. This front office knows what they're doing. Get used to 10 years of dominance haters
    35!
    AHH-OOH!
    User avatar
    KK84
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 842
    Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:01 pm
    Location: Bensalem, PA




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