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Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn

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Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:32 pm
  • http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... att-flynn/

    The market for Seattle Seahawks quarterback Matt Flynn could finally be heating up after remaining lukewarm so far this offseason.

    According to Jason La Canfora of CBSSports.com, the Jacksonville Jaguars are the most likely destination for the Seahawks backup quarterback to end up if he’s traded this offseason. The Oakland Raiders and Buffalo Bills are also expressing interest.
    "You can hurry up all you want. But if you can't get yards and can't complete passes, then it's just quick three-and-outs." -- Richard Sherman
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:34 pm
  • In light of the new information here, and to prevent another dozen threads from popping up on this subject, let's continue this Flynn discussion here.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:40 pm
  • This might be announced the second day of the NFL Draft!
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:43 pm
  • If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:45 pm
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:In light of the new information here, and to prevent another dozen threads from popping up on this subject, let's continue this Flynn discussion here.


    Yeah, my bad, I didn't read through the Raiders/Flynn thread first. :oops:
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:46 pm
  • JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.


    That's so my thinking, all of it. And I'd be euphoric if that happened in any combination. Getting in the position of taking the first pick of the second round would be awesome, and the power of trade to move it for even more loot would be fantastic.

    Of course, it's all conjecture right now, but PC/JS, if you're reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN!
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:50 pm
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:53 pm
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.


    That's so my thinking, all of it. And I'd be euphoric if that happened in any combination. Getting in the position of taking the first pick of the second round would be awesome, and the power of trade to move it for even more loot would be fantastic.

    Of course, it's all conjecture right now, but PC/JS, if you're reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN!


    I'd be good with that, but I don't see any point in trading away the 33rd for more picks. Either grab an impact player, or trade it for a 2014 1st... of a team that will likely finish 6-10 or worse.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:57 pm
  • I rarely make crazy outlandish predictions but I'm going to stand by my post I made awhile back.

    Schneider is going to surprise the hell out of us and somehow squeeze a 1st rounder out of one of those teams on draft day.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:02 pm
  • SE174 wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.


    That's so my thinking, all of it. And I'd be euphoric if that happened in any combination. Getting in the position of taking the first pick of the second round would be awesome, and the power of trade to move it for even more loot would be fantastic.

    Of course, it's all conjecture right now, but PC/JS, if you're reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN!


    I'd be good with that, but I don't see any point in trading away the 33rd for more picks. Either grab an impact player, or trade it for a 2014 1st... of a team that will likely finish 6-10 or worse.


    If we traded that pick away, assuming we traded for it in the first place, the best case scenario I see is trading it for future years' picks. We're oh-so-close right now, and while arguably a couple of rookies could make a difference (a la last year), it's easy enough to argue they wouldn't. Next year, when we're trying to either repeat or improve on this year's season, it would be very nice to have some extra ammo in the hatch for the draft. And because putting those draft picks off a year, they're a lot cheaper, and we really end up with more bang for the same buck.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:06 pm
  • bellingerga wrote:I rarely make crazy outlandish predictions but I'm going to stand by my post I made awhile back.

    Schneider is going to surprise the hell out of us and somehow squeeze a 1st rounder out of one of those teams on draft day.

    All three of those teams pick in the top 8. "Crazy" and "Outlandish" are understatements about a prediction like that.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:21 pm
  • Rat wrote:
    bellingerga wrote:I rarely make crazy outlandish predictions but I'm going to stand by my post I made awhile back.

    Schneider is going to surprise the hell out of us and somehow squeeze a 1st rounder out of one of those teams on draft day.

    All three of those teams pick in the top 8. "Crazy" and "Outlandish" are understatements about a prediction like that.


    all 3 of them have terrible management, and are desperate. Hey I don't think it'll happen either, but Schneider is a wizard, and I can hope.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:30 pm
  • bellingerga wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    bellingerga wrote:I rarely make crazy outlandish predictions but I'm going to stand by my post I made awhile back.

    Schneider is going to surprise the hell out of us and somehow squeeze a 1st rounder out of one of those teams on draft day.

    All three of those teams pick in the top 8. "Crazy" and "Outlandish" are understatements about a prediction like that.


    all 3 of them have terrible management, and are desperate. Hey I don't think it'll happen either, but Schneider is a wizard, and I can hope.


    lol.... we would be very lucky to get a 4th. As far as im concerned your speaking Arabic right now
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:35 pm
  • Rat wrote:
    bellingerga wrote:I rarely make crazy outlandish predictions but I'm going to stand by my post I made awhile back.

    Schneider is going to surprise the hell out of us and somehow squeeze a 1st rounder out of one of those teams on draft day.

    All three of those teams pick in the top 8. "Crazy" and "Outlandish" are understatements about a prediction like that.


    Throw Flynn and a pick in the mix and it's not really that crazy. What's the difference between our second rounder and their first? Is Flynn worth that, especially to a team in dire need of a quarterback?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:35 pm
  • Shouldnt we atleast get for Flynn what we had to give up for Whitehurst for crying out loud?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:06 pm
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Throw Flynn and a pick in the mix and it's not really that crazy. What's the difference between our second rounder and their first? Is Flynn worth that, especially to a team in dire need of a quarterback?

    The 25th pick of the 2nd round compared to their top 8 pick. That's a HUGE difference.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:07 pm
  • Seaswab wrote:Shouldnt we atleast get for Flynn what we had to give up for Whitehurst for crying out loud?

    My avatar aside (to this day, I still think it was a worthy gamble), that trade isn't going to be used as a barometer by other teams for what they should do.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:13 pm
  • Rat wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Throw Flynn and a pick in the mix and it's not really that crazy. What's the difference between our second rounder and their first? Is Flynn worth that, especially to a team in dire need of a quarterback?

    The 25th pick of the 2nd round compared to their top 8 pick. That's a HUGE difference.


    That would mean Flynn is mid-first rounder value. Throw in a lil' sumtin' sumtin' to drop him to about the second round and it might not be too hard to imagine.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:25 pm
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Throw Flynn and a pick in the mix and it's not really that crazy. What's the difference between our second rounder and their first? Is Flynn worth that, especially to a team in dire need of a quarterback?


    Atlanta traded two firsts, a second and a fourth to move up from 25th to sixth in the 2011 draft.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:55 pm
  • The Buffalo owner is Al Davis Old, he's desperate and is liable to do something crazy.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:06 pm
  • Buffalo owner is on a recorded phone call saying he needs his draft picks....
    Last edited by mikeak on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:23 pm
  • Bet we get Jax's 3rd, I'd be ok with their 4th but it's John Schneider we're talking about...
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:27 pm
  • Some of you are confusing Buffalo's owner with their GM.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:42 pm
  • ^ yes screwup

    Separately I want Flynns money off the books. Best way is any pick but then we still need a backup qb and have to either "waste" a draft pick or sign a FA.

    Straight up with Oakland for Pryor gets us a suitable backup and moves the money. Maybe we can squeeze out a fifth or sixth rounder as well
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:14 pm
  • Finally.

    JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.


    You know, I could see Buffalo doing the "swapping 2nds" idea. They don't want to give up picks as they only have 6 right now. Buddy Nix talked about that reluctance during his taped prank call. We do that trade, and the odds of us getting Sly Williams or Kawann Short shoot through the roof.

    Personally, I'd prefer a trade with Oakland that gets us Prior and a pick of some kind. Prior started to show something at the end of the last preseason. Maybe they want to keep Prior and that's fine- but if they were indifferent about it I think he'd make a nice read option backup with some upside.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:19 pm
  • You know I've been meaning to start a topic on trading a player and how it impacts guaranteed money, so I might as well ask here since it's a Flynn thread.

    If Seattle trades Flynn, do they still take any of the hit salary cap-wise (signing bonus), or does the trading team assume that cap hit? I had always assumed that if you trade for a player you assume the full cap hit. Am I mistaken?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:42 pm
  • kearly wrote:You know I've been meaning to start a topic on trading a player and how it impacts guaranteed money, so I might as well ask here since it's a Flynn thread.

    If Seattle trades Flynn, do they still take any of the hit salary cap-wise (signing bonus), or does the trading team assume that cap hit? I had always assumed that if you trade for a player you assume the full cap hit. Am I mistaken?

    I'm pretty sure you assume the remainder of the signing bonus as a cap hit, but the salary is off to the destination team

    So for Flynn in 2013 instead of his number being something like:
    $2m bonus + $5.25m salary = $7.25m if keeping him
    $2m bonus + $2m bonus portion from 2014 = $4m if trading him before June 1st. If after June 1st we take the bonus hit for the current season + the remainder would hit us next year, which in Flynn's case would just be $2m again, obviously.

    So trading Flynn gets us $3.25m in cap savings, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:17 am
  • Is it a ridiculous notion, if this happens, to bring Seneca in as a back-up? Cheap, mobile, decent QB who wouldn't cost $4 million a year.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:20 am
  • I'm against the "swapping picks" stuff, we ought to demand a pick--in the second. Basically, their team can justify the pick by stating that Flynn would be the best QB in the draft available to them and it was as if they drafted him in the second (which is how the Harvin trade was sold). This may sound like a rainbowland scenario, but it can be sold to teams like the Raiders, Buffalo, or Jacksonville (who are in a bidding war, desperate for a QB, and historically aren't very smart). You can sell it to these fans by pointing out that Flynn had a record-breaking start in the NFL for Green Bay (something other backup QB's never had that got traded for similar compensation never had like Whitehurst, Kolb, and Cassel) and did quite well in the preseason. There are enough overlooked players in this draft that, with an early 2d, we'd get a starting-from-day-one DT (Short, Sly Williams, Margus Hunt, Donata Jones, or if the stars aligned right, Sheldon Richardson) or OLB (Khaseem Green, and maybe even Jarvis Jones or Ogletree) with that pick. Sounds like its enough of a bidding war to pull it out. With our later pick in the second round, we could take the best player on the board like a Ryan Swope (WR) or Brandon Williams (DT, if we don't already have a DT in this draft) or a stud TE (Escobar, Kelce, or Eifert if he's still there). I'm seeing alot of potential here. SELL IT AND CLOSE THE DEAL!!!
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:49 am
  • I would love to see us package Flynn and a couple of late round picks to move up to an early 2nd or late first round pick. We need to get some of the more elite talent out of the draft if they're going to make a difference for us. Hard to imagine 8 picks making it past TC and we might not even have a place for them on the PSquad. If we can put together a 6/7 pick or two and Flynn to get a player that has a really good chance to make a difference in the trenches (my preference) or otherwise on this team, I'm all for it.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:22 am
  • Wouldn't a trade for Flynn be the exact type of move that the Raider's new front office has vowed not to make? I'm really not seeing the logic in cutting Palmer and then trading a draft pick so you can pay Flynn, albeit somewhat less.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:58 am
  • Missing_Clink wrote:Wouldn't a trade for Flynn be the exact type of move that the Raider's new front office has vowed not to make? I'm really not seeing the logic in cutting Palmer and then trading a draft pick so you can pay Flynn, albeit somewhat less.


    If their GM (a former Green Bay guy who knows Flynn) feels that Flynn is worth it, how can you not do the deal?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:02 am
  • Missing_Clink wrote:Wouldn't a trade for Flynn be the exact type of move that the Raider's new front office has vowed not to make? I'm really not seeing the logic in cutting Palmer and then trading a draft pick so you can pay Flynn, albeit somewhat less.


    From what I understand, cutting Palmer (and absorbing his cap hit) and taking on Flynn's contract would actually be a little more expensive for Oakland (cap-wise) than just keeping Palmer at his current salary. Doesn't really make sense for them to make the move unless Flynn restructured.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:17 am
  • ...unless they think Flynn is better than Palmer. It's not always a one-year decision. The Hawks could afford to shoulder the burden on some of the cap hit too I believe and I think that is allowable.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:46 am
  • pinksheets wrote:So for Flynn in 2013 instead of his number being something like:
    $2m bonus + $5.25m salary = $7.25m if keeping him
    $2m bonus + $2m bonus portion from 2014 = $4m if trading him before June 1st. If after June 1st we take the bonus hit for the current season + the remainder would hit us next year, which in Flynn's case would just be $2m again, obviously.

    So trading Flynn gets us $3.25m in cap savings, if I'm not mistaken.


    This is correct BUT it is very easy to say that the savings is only $3.25 million if trading him. One also needs to consider that you are taking $2 million this year that would be in next year otherwise. So the saving is $3.25 million this year and then the $2million you didn't get hit with the signing bonus for next year
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:37 am
  • SE174 wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:If we could send Flynn to jacksonville and flip 2nd round picks with them that would be ideal.

    Having first pick in the 2nd round is either a great way to get somebody who slipped out of the first round, or maybe even better is a nice trade chip. All those teams who didnt fill all their needs in the first round have a night to think about who's left over and try to move up and get their guy. We could probably turn that in to 3 or 4 more picks if we were so inclined.


    That's so my thinking, all of it. And I'd be euphoric if that happened in any combination. Getting in the position of taking the first pick of the second round would be awesome, and the power of trade to move it for even more loot would be fantastic.

    Of course, it's all conjecture right now, but PC/JS, if you're reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN!


    I'd be good with that, but I don't see any point in trading away the 33rd for more picks. Either grab an impact player, or trade it for a 2014 1st... of a team that will likely finish 6-10 or worse.


    I'd hate to see us trade it away for a 2014 pick... because it would mean we don't have a single option before the 87th pick of the draft.
    By all means trade Flynn for a 2014 1st rounder straight up, but Flynn and our 2nd for a 1st next year? No way
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:44 am
  • I'm going to hope for a 3rd (a round that Bill Polian touted as a round worthy of drafting a backup QB after we drafted Wilson) and anything more will be icing on the cake. If other NFL teams view that as a backup-worthy round, than Flynn (as a good backup) should be able to bring that in return.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:31 am
  • Ian Furness on KJR saying that Flynn is headed to Oakland.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:35 am
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:Ian Furness on KJR saying that Flynn is headed to Oakland.


    Saw that on Sonicsrising of all places. Think its for Terrell Pryor?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:37 am
  • Missing_Clink wrote:
    Smelly McUgly wrote:Ian Furness on KJR saying that Flynn is headed to Oakland.


    Saw that on Sonicsrising of all places. Think its for Terrell Pryor?


    We could only be so lucky. I think that it's more likely that they keep Pryor to comPETE.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:43 am
  • Is he actually traded then?

    Flynn looks like Dave Kreig in this shot.

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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:51 am
  • Sounds like Pinksheets is right. From ESPN:

    Prorated signing bonuses: This is the hardest thing to understand about the cap. For cap purposes, signing bonuses are spread throughout the length of the contract. For example, a $4 million signing bonus spread across a four-year contract counts $1 million against the cap each year. This explains why a team can pay a player $5 million in one season but have it count only $2 million against the cap. You add the $1 million base salary with the 2009 prorated part of the signing bonus and end up with a $2 million cap number.

    Salary-cap hits: The prorated part of a signing bonus will always count toward that year's cap. But because every dollar counts toward the salary cap, teams must add the remainder of a signing bonus if they cut or trade a player. [emphasis mine] They do this in two ways. The rules are different in 2009 because there is no cap scheduled for 2010 unless there is a collective bargaining extension within the next year. If a player is cut in 2009, the team takes the entire salary-cap hit in 2009. If a player is cut before June 1, the cap hit occurs this year.

    Take that $4 million signing bonus example. If that player who accepted a $4 million signing bonus in 2008 is cut this year, the team is on the books for the $1 million proration in 2009 but also must take a $2 million salary-cap hit this season. Thus, the released player would count $3 million under the 2009 cap, even though he's no longer on the team.

    Why trades usually don't happen: Often, it's because of that prorated signing bonus hit. Unlike with releasing a player, there is no way that a team that trades a player can delay taking a salary-cap hit. Once a player is traded, the remaining proration is moved into that season. The same standard applies if a player is cut. Trading can begin Feb. 27.


    So basically, Seattle has to eat $4 million in cap space no matter what. That means Seattle would only save $3.25 million this year but would be fully out of his contract in 2014.

    I'm actually happy about this rule, at least in this instance. It sucks to have to eat that $4 million, but if we didn't have to eat it then Flynn would cost $4 million more to some buying team, and that would weaken a very lukewarm market.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:51 am
  • Please let this be true! And with stupid compensation indicative of the Oakland Raiders!
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:53 am
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:Please let this be true! And with stupid compensation indicative of the Oakland Raiders!


    Yup, looks like we got lucky. They don't have a 5th round pick so sounds like if this goes through we should get a 4th out of it!
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:55 am
Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:59 am
  • Is this a done deal, or just speculation that Oakland would be the most likely place?
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:05 pm
  • I still want at least a 3rd or higher. The economics of keeping Flynn aren't bad. Costs us $3.25 million extra to keep him as insurance. Colts are paying Hasselbeck $5 million next year.

    Honestly, I don't think we win a game against any halfway decent opponent with Pryor as our starter.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:09 pm
  • If this is true, I'm happy for Flynn that he'll get one more chance to start while in his prime. He thought he was going to be competing against Tarvarus Jackson, not a potentially generational player.
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:10 pm
  • Look I know this can seem like funny math to some but you can't just look at this year and say it costs $3.25 million extra. If we pay him the full salary this year including guaranteed money then not only do we pay the $3.25 million extra this year but we still loose the $2 million signing bonus next year if we cut him / trade him then.

    So the saving is more like $5.25 million despite what all the numbers on paper say. You are taking a $2 million hit for next year now by trading him by not trading him you are not counting that number until next year - regardless it has to come off the books so needs to counted for.

    Trade even for nothing is great in my book as Vince Young can step in :)
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Re: Jags, Bills, and Raiders interested in Flynn
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:12 pm
  • MMMMM. Want a second at least.
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