Dang we're young...

JesterHawk

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Offense
Marshawn Lynch - 26
Russell Wilson - 24
Percy Harvin - 24
Zach Miller - 27
Russell Okung - 25
Max Unger - 26

Defense
Richard Sherman - 24
Earl Thomas - 23
Bobby Wagner - 22

You can make an argument that each one of those guys is top 5 at his position...or will be within the next couple of years.

These other guys are pretty awesome too.

Offense
Robert Turbin - 23
Golden Tate - 24
Sidney Rice - 26
James Carpenter - 23
John Moffit - 26
Doug Baldwin - 24


Defense
KJ Wright - 23
Bruce Irvin - 23
Kam Chancellor - 24
Red Bryant - 28
Brandon Mebane - 28
Jason Jones - 26

Depending on how the FO decides to play Leroy Hill's OLB spot, and work with the D Line, our defense could be together for 4-5 years (assuming the work out the contracts) and our offense can manage the same. I'm sure some guys will leave to the allure of ridiculous free agent contracts, but if JS can keep reloading on the back end, we're in for an incredible decade or more.
 

Sarlacc83

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Can anyone think of a Seahawks roster that had more talent on it? Seriously, the 2013 Seahawks are stacked and not in the 2012 Eagles roster kind of way.
 

Throwdown

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Its beautiful compared to where we were a few years back ain't it?

I had no idea Moffitt was 26 though.
 

FlyingGreg

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The only downside is trying to keep guys when their cheap rookie deals expire in the next 2-4 years. There are going to be a lot of tough decisions, but that's the nature of the league.
 

McGruff

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Meanwhile, by adding Boldin and Reed to an already aging roster, the Niners are setting themselves up for injury issues and long term decline (see The Bears and Stealers of 2012).

Their draft picks this year will help mitigate some of that, if they hit on them.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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FlyingGreg":pa8795sa said:
The only downside is trying to keep guys when their cheap rookie deals expire in the next 2-4 years. There are going to be a lot of tough decisions, but that's the nature of the league.

The fallacy is in trying to keep them. This team needs to be getting the next Chancellor/Tate/Sherman. One thing we can definitely say about this FO, is that they are very comfortable with change. Changing to a 'trying to keep' them team is paramount to resting on one's laurels. I don't think that fits with the core philosophy of the team.

As fans, we fear it because we don't think it's easily replicated. Like we got lucky and now we have to stave off attrition. I don't think that's how this brain trust is wired.

McGruff":pa8795sa said:
Meanwhile, by adding Boldin and Reed to an already aging roster, the Niners are setting themselves up for injury issues and long term decline (see The Bears and Stealers of 2012).

Their draft picks this year will help mitigate some of that, if they hit on them.

It'll be interesting because SF isn't a team that generally trusts their rookies. At least that's been Harbaugh's MO. So even if they do hit on some, they may not be functional depth until next season.
 

sutz

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FlyingGreg":1twtl6ou said:
The only downside is trying to keep guys when their cheap rookie deals expire in the next 2-4 years. There are going to be a lot of tough decisions, but that's the nature of the league.
....but with PC&JS's ability to find guys late in the draft coupled with a strategy of keeping the competition going all the time should keep the team on the right track. We have the ability to bring 'marginal' guys in and not have to throw them in the fire right away, but can coach them up a season or two until they're ready.

Yeah, it's gonna be nerve-wracking when contract time comes up for some of these guys, but somehow I think Pete will have guys ready to step up if we lose players to the lure of money elsewhere. It looks like we have some depth at most positions that should carry us through.
 

kearly

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Sarlacc83":2ti7l7j0 said:
Can anyone think of a Seahawks roster that had more talent on it? Seriously, the 2013 Seahawks are stacked and not in the 2012 Eagles roster kind of way.

Right now our backups would probably smack the shit out of the 2008 and 2009 teams.
 

FlyingGreg

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Attyla the Hawk":1kiwfxh8 said:
FlyingGreg":1kiwfxh8 said:
The only downside is trying to keep guys when their cheap rookie deals expire in the next 2-4 years. There are going to be a lot of tough decisions, but that's the nature of the league.

The fallacy is in trying to keep them. This team needs to be getting the next Chancellor/Tate/Sherman. One thing we can definitely say about this FO, is that they are very comfortable with change. Changing to a 'trying to keep' them team is paramount to resting on one's laurels. I don't think that fits with the core philosophy of the team.

As fans, we fear it because we don't think it's easily replicated. Like we got lucky and now we have to stave off attrition. I don't think that's how this brain trust is wired.

McGruff":1kiwfxh8 said:
Meanwhile, by adding Boldin and Reed to an already aging roster, the Niners are setting themselves up for injury issues and long term decline (see The Bears and Stealers of 2012).

Their draft picks this year will help mitigate some of that, if they hit on them.

It'll be interesting because SF isn't a team that generally trusts their rookies. At least that's been Harbaugh's MO. So even if they do hit on some, they may not be functional depth until next season.

You can't keep everyone, but you have to keep the core together. Sherman isn't going anywhere, neither is Wilson...or Thomas and possibly Okung. After those guys, who knows.
 
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JesterHawk

JesterHawk

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Attyla the Hawk":wfd1mhn3 said:
FlyingGreg":wfd1mhn3 said:
The only downside is trying to keep guys when their cheap rookie deals expire in the next 2-4 years. There are going to be a lot of tough decisions, but that's the nature of the league.

The fallacy is in trying to keep them. This team needs to be getting the next Chancellor/Tate/Sherman. One thing we can definitely say about this FO, is that they are very comfortable with change. Changing to a 'trying to keep' them team is paramount to resting on one's laurels. I don't think that fits with the core philosophy of the team.

As fans, we fear it because we don't think it's easily replicated. Like we got lucky and now we have to stave off attrition. I don't think that's how this brain trust is wired.

Agreed. I think we'll keep the core guys, Thomas, Sherman, Wilson, Unger, Okung, Wagner.

I think those 5 are pretty safe until they start to decline. With a guy like Harvin it remains to be seen how he will fit in with the culture, but talent wise, I don't see how you can let him walk once you get him here. A lot of the difficulty is letting a Sidney Rice or Golden Tate take their big payday from someone else, but it is a very real possibility. As long as the cupboards are restocked with young talent it's a non-issue. Pete has been exemplary at getting rookies on the field in an impactful manner.
 

HawksFTW

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Sarlacc83":1tlbkuqj said:
Can anyone think of a Seahawks roster that had more talent on it? Seriously, the 2013 Seahawks are stacked and not in the 2012 Eagles roster kind of way.

I had this exact conversation with a coworker this morning. I can think of some years where the Hawks had better/deeper talent in specific positional groups (DL, OL off the top of my head) but nowhere NEAR the overall depth across the board. The best part about it, we will be in a position to continually replenish that depth with the way this front office operates.

And you are correct to point out the disparity between the Eagles (more 2011 "dream team") and the Hawks. Another good example is the Redskins through most of the 2000's.
 

nsport

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Looks like the way I build my Madden teams. As soon as they get their 3rd contract (pushing 30) - they're outta here. You can sustain and build through the draft and 2nd contract FA's - the key is to stick to it. We do have a few guys that are carrying some big contracts - the key to this whole act is to make sure that the organization (and fans) do not get married to one or two guys. Everyone is valuable, but also should have the expectation that one day they will be gone if they want that big deal.
 

volsunghawk

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This seems like an ideal time to reference the research done by Davis Hsu on the Green Bay model of player management that was posted at Field Gulls a while back.

Basically, it outlined the idea that with few exceptions, the Packers don't bother with FA and instead reward their own FAs according to the following general philosophy:

1/3 (One-third) - or more importantly - 18 - which is the closest number to 1/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay rewards 1/3 of its roster with big money 2nd contracts - typically players in Year 5-8 of their careers (peak) and about four more Legacy type players (Year 9+).

2/3 (two-thirds) - Or more importantly - 35- which is the closest number to 2/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay is able to always pay its best players, and never lose the players they want to another bidder, because 2/3 of the roster is cheap, young labor playing on inexpensive rookie contracts.

13 - or perhaps you can think of it as 1/4 - This is the number of new players that enter the Green Bay system each year.

So there are your stars that you reward with lucrative contracts, your role players who tend to be on cheap rookie deals, and a steady influx of new players to compete for jobs.

We are about to hit the point in PC/JS's tenure where guys who came in and were beloved because they were building blocks in turning our team's fortunes around are going to start leaving - either because they were offered a better deal in FA or because they get beat out by fresh blood from the draft. It's not going to be comfortable, but it should allow Seattle to sustain an excellent team for a long time.

So who would our 18 "stars" be?

First off, consider those guys who are already on that 2nd deal: Rice, Harvin, Bryant, Mebane, Miller, Clemons, Lynch, Unger. That's 8.

You could add in Okung and Thomas as guys who got big rookie deals and will be priorities to re-sign. That brings it to 10.

Then the guys who are currently on cheap deals but will be top priority to re-sign before they hit the market: Wilson, Sherman. That's 12.

Who are the other 6 that we would include in that list?
 

Sarlacc83

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volsunghawk":5fqdpnxt said:
This seems like an ideal time to reference the research done by Davis Hsu on the Green Bay model of player management that was posted at Field Gulls a while back.

Basically, it outlined the idea that with few exceptions, the Packers don't bother with FA and instead reward their own FAs according to the following general philosophy:

1/3 (One-third) - or more importantly - 18 - which is the closest number to 1/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay rewards 1/3 of its roster with big money 2nd contracts - typically players in Year 5-8 of their careers (peak) and about four more Legacy type players (Year 9+).

2/3 (two-thirds) - Or more importantly - 35- which is the closest number to 2/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay is able to always pay its best players, and never lose the players they want to another bidder, because 2/3 of the roster is cheap, young labor playing on inexpensive rookie contracts.

13 - or perhaps you can think of it as 1/4 - This is the number of new players that enter the Green Bay system each year.

So there are your stars that you reward with lucrative contracts, your role players who tend to be on cheap rookie deals, and a steady influx of new players to compete for jobs.

We are about to hit the point in PC/JS's tenure where guys who came in and were beloved because they were building blocks in turning our team's fortunes around are going to start leaving - either because they were offered a better deal in FA or because they get beat out by fresh blood from the draft. It's not going to be comfortable, but it should allow Seattle to sustain an excellent team for a long time.

So who would our 18 "stars" be?

First off, consider those guys who are already on that 2nd deal: Rice, Harvin, Bryant, Mebane, Miller, Clemons, Lynch, Unger. That's 8.

You could add in Okung and Thomas as guys who got big rookie deals and will be priorities to re-sign. That brings it to 10.

Then the guys who are currently on cheap deals but will be top priority to re-sign before they hit the market: Wilson, Sherman. That's 12.

Who are the other 6 that we would include in that list?

You have to figure that K.J. Wright or Bobby Wagner will be candidates for the list. Irvin, if he proves himself a LEO over the next couple of years.
 

volsunghawk

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Sarlacc83":2bb3kskn said:
volsunghawk":2bb3kskn said:
This seems like an ideal time to reference the research done by Davis Hsu on the Green Bay model of player management that was posted at Field Gulls a while back.

Basically, it outlined the idea that with few exceptions, the Packers don't bother with FA and instead reward their own FAs according to the following general philosophy:

1/3 (One-third) - or more importantly - 18 - which is the closest number to 1/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay rewards 1/3 of its roster with big money 2nd contracts - typically players in Year 5-8 of their careers (peak) and about four more Legacy type players (Year 9+).

2/3 (two-thirds) - Or more importantly - 35- which is the closest number to 2/3 of a 53 man roster. Green Bay is able to always pay its best players, and never lose the players they want to another bidder, because 2/3 of the roster is cheap, young labor playing on inexpensive rookie contracts.

13 - or perhaps you can think of it as 1/4 - This is the number of new players that enter the Green Bay system each year.

So there are your stars that you reward with lucrative contracts, your role players who tend to be on cheap rookie deals, and a steady influx of new players to compete for jobs.

We are about to hit the point in PC/JS's tenure where guys who came in and were beloved because they were building blocks in turning our team's fortunes around are going to start leaving - either because they were offered a better deal in FA or because they get beat out by fresh blood from the draft. It's not going to be comfortable, but it should allow Seattle to sustain an excellent team for a long time.

So who would our 18 "stars" be?

First off, consider those guys who are already on that 2nd deal: Rice, Harvin, Bryant, Mebane, Miller, Clemons, Lynch, Unger. That's 8.

You could add in Okung and Thomas as guys who got big rookie deals and will be priorities to re-sign. That brings it to 10.

Then the guys who are currently on cheap deals but will be top priority to re-sign before they hit the market: Wilson, Sherman. That's 12.

Who are the other 6 that we would include in that list?

You have to figure that K.J. Wright or Bobby Wagner will be candidates for the list. Irvin, if he proves himself a LEO over the next couple of years.

Okay, 15. Maybe add Chancellor as a unique player? Carpenter if he stays healthy and works well with Okung? Browner?
 
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JesterHawk

JesterHawk

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volsunghawk":2q0ze8tm said:
Sarlacc83":2q0ze8tm said:
You have to figure that K.J. Wright or Bobby Wagner will be candidates for the list. Irvin, if he proves himself a LEO over the next couple of years.

Okay, 15. Maybe add Chancellor as a unique player? Carpenter if he stays healthy and works well with Okung? Browner?

Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin could make the list if they continue to improve. You need lots of receivers in the modern NFL. I think the last 5 or so on the 18 is going to be in flux every year.
 

Starrman44

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volsunghawk":gesmg70e said:
Okay, 15. Maybe add Chancellor as a unique player? Carpenter if he stays healthy and works well with Okung? Browner?

Personally I think Browner is replaceable (if he wants a big contract). On the fence in regards to Okung. It seems like he would be replaceable, but sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until you lose 'em. I've seen some teams that let a solid LT go and then really pay the price for it.
 

volsunghawk

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I think you could make the argument that we've got about 15 or so key guys who we need to lock up and to whom we grant those big dollar deals. They'll take the bulk of the money available under the salary cap. In Hsu's analysis of the Green Bay model, about 80% of the available money went to those 18 star players. The last 20% is split up among the remaining 35 guys on rookie deals.

The benefit to this split is that you can pay at least market value to keep your star players and don't risk losing them in FA while you grow young talent within your culture and system. If that young talent blossoms and deserves to be rewarded with a 2nd contract, it will likely replace one of the older members of your group of 18 "stars." This keeps the team young and loyal (Hsu does a much better job of explaining this than I am doing... find it at http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-anal ... -schneider).

In any case, I think that outside of the 15 or so guys we just named in this thread, we should be prepared to see departures when some of the other group start reaching the ends of their deals. We'll have new guys coming in to compete for their jobs anyway.
 

HawksFTW

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Starrman44":1otjct5r said:
volsunghawk":1otjct5r said:
Okay, 15. Maybe add Chancellor as a unique player? Carpenter if he stays healthy and works well with Okung? Browner?

Personally I think Browner is replaceable (if he wants a big contract). On the fence in regards to Okung. It seems like he would be replaceable, but sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until you lose 'em. I've seen some teams that let a solid LT go and then really pay the price for it.

I can understand Browner, simply because of age. We could definitely live without him but he brings a physical presence that people underestimate. Just go back and watch the NE game, and when it starts to turn around. Brandon Browner lighting Wes Welker up (and others) was a big part of that.

As for Okung, that thought is crazy. Okung was one of the best LTs in the game last year, no way they let him test FA.
 

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