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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:16 am 
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Wilson said before the Carolina game that about 20% of the plays are read option. That is about right I suspect. The thing I like about it is it changes up defensive scheming. In theory it is should not be that different if anyone has lane discipline.

In reality with the RG3, Wilson and Kaepernick it is tough.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:16 am 
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I think this move has helped to just make us the most dynamic, versatile and dangerous offense in the entire NFL now. Colin Cowherd is a muppet, but at the end of the season, he called Wilson a top 5 QB in the NFL right now. I agree with him. We also have probably the #2 RB in the entire NFL, and now one of its most dynamic playmakers in Harvin. There's no defense in the NFL we can't exploit now.

look to us, NFL, and despair.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:20 am 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
I think this move has helped to just make us the most dynamic, versatile and dangerous offense in the entire NFL now. Colin Cowherd is a muppet, but at the end of the season, he called Wilson a top 5 QB in the NFL right now. I agree with him. We also have probably the #2 RB in the entire NFL, and now one of its most dynamic playmakers in Harvin. There's no defense in the NFL we can't exploit now.

look to us, NFL, and despair.


Hey, remember the end of 2011 where we had no idea if we'd ever get a franchise QB and figured our improving defense and our run game would have to carry the team if it was ever going to do anything? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:21 am 
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I would have said that Seattle had easily the most dynamic and versatile offense in the NFL before Harvin. Now it's just getting ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:22 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
He hates turnovers like like I hate leftovers. Particularly in the red zone.


You hate leftovers in the red zone?

(Great points all btw)

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:23 am 
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gargantual wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
He hates turnovers like like I hate leftovers. Particularly in the red zone.


You hate leftovers in the red zone?

(Great points all btw)

I have a section of my fridge I call the red zone. Saved it!

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:26 am 
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kearly wrote:
I would have said that Seattle had easily the most dynamic and versatile offense in the NFL before Harvin. Now it's just getting ridiculous.


I really should stop reading your posts. Nothing gets me more gacked about this team than reading statement like this from you. I've started taking several pairs of undercrackers to work as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:34 am 
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You're right, this offense IS a multi-threat offense now. Balance is the key and they've found it with the roster they currently have assembled.

The offense that this probably will resemble is the Vikings during the '09 season. Bevell was around for that, he had Rice and Harvin as well as a solid tight end threat like Miller in Shiancoe. Of course there's the obvious AP/Beast Mode comparison too. Rice had his best season that year, and if he can stay healthy this year he'll greatly benefit from Harvin because he'll be able to stretch the field 1 on 1. He was deadly doing that in Minnesota in '09. All we need is for Russell to do his best Brett Favre imitation (4,200+ yards/33 td/7 int/68% completion) and we're set.

This offense just evolved in a big way.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:02 am 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
I think this move has helped to just make us the most dynamic, versatile and dangerous offense in the entire NFL now.


This is 100% true.

It's why I love the move so much. Because Harvin is such a malleable talent. This offense is dynamic. And creative. And the team is definitely open to new and creative things. Harvin is almost the perfect talent for what we are wanting to exploit. It's just a great fit.

As to the lament of the read-option. I'm wondering if you aren't confusing this with the Pistol formation. The read option is just one element of the formation. Teams are going to have varied success with the read option but it's going to be most effective, when you can run nearly your entire offense out of it. Harvin improves our ability to pass out of the formation in just a wide variety of ways.

Wilson and Kaep make the formation (and by extention the read option play) work because of their ability to run such a wide variety of plays from it. That's what distinguishes it from 'gimmick' plays. Equating the Pistol formation offense to the wildcat is demonstrating a lack of understanding of offensive theory. The Wildcat can be schemed/coached and rendered obsolete, because there is no, or very limited ability to maintain the numbers advantage that the formation provides. With no threat of the pass, teams just commit more to the run.

The Pistol is more balanced. And if a team 'figures' the read option, then they'll end up going over the top of the LBs and exploiting the cover 1. It's a style that has legs, because at it's base, it can create a numerical mismatch in either the run or pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:10 am 
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We not only have one of the best teams/rosters in the NFL but we arguably the most versitile team, we can play grind it out smashmouth ball, or one that can throw quick west coast passes, or take shots deep.

Our defense is built to hit and can stuff the run with an oversizeded DE like Big Red but built to speed rush fwith a lead with a 4.4 (40) Bruce Irvin.

All this flexabiity allows us to match up with any team, some teams are built in ways where they just don't match up well with certain teams, well that's not the seahawks, we can adjust to any style. We can stop the Patriots passing and run up the scores with them, but we can also play smash mouth with the Niners and Steelers of the league.

We are a miltifaceted Offense and Defense

multifaceted
Definition
mul·ti·fac·et·ed[ mùltee fássətəd ]ADJECTIVE
1. with diverse qualities: with many different talents, qualities, or features
2. with many facets: having many facets or cut surfaces
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ADJECTIVE
Synonyms: multilayered, complex, complicated, many-sided, multidimensional, polygonal, manifold

New England, New Orleans, SF and Green Bay are the only teams close to being as mulitdimensional as we are but I think we have the the fastest most versitile weapons of all with RW and Harvin.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:17 am 
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sutz wrote:
I prefer a 'multiple threat' offense to one that only does one thing at an elite level and is rather mediocre at the rest.

Pete seems to have built a team that can slog it out, or win a shootout. We can build a lead and pound the rock, or come back from rather deep score deficits.

Yeah, I like it.

:)

Yep, I was thinking the exact same thing about Harvin's versatility as WR/RB.

For Wilson?, the options door has just come off the hinges, and I'm lovin it. :mrgreen:

You can betchurebutt that the rest of the League is going to do their dead level best to try'n mimic Petes hybrid Offensive/Defensive approach.
Adapt or fall hopelessly behind Harbaugh.

By Pete puting Russell Wilson out there last Season to acclimate to the speed of NFL play early on, that forced Harbaugh to play his hole card, and start playing Kaepernick to tryn' play catchup, and now?, what does Harbaugh do?, he goes out to get Boldin to keep from falling too far behind the curve, but it's too little too late Jimmy, Pete has done it to you again :16:


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:47 am 
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sutz wrote:
I prefer a 'multiple threat' offense to one that only does one thing at an elite level and is rather mediocre at the rest.

Pete seems to have built a team that can slog it out, or win a shootout. We can build a lead and pound the rock, or come back from rather deep score deficits.

Yeah, I like it.

:)


I get the feeling coming back from deep score defiicits is not going to be an issue this season. As opposed to, say, the issue of how to manage blowouts we are inflicting on the opponent.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:51 am 
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Lords of Scythia wrote:
sutz wrote:
I prefer a 'multiple threat' offense to one that only does one thing at an elite level and is rather mediocre at the rest.

Pete seems to have built a team that can slog it out, or win a shootout. We can build a lead and pound the rock, or come back from rather deep score deficits.

Yeah, I like it.

:)


I get the feeling coming back from deep score defiicits is not going to be an issue this season. As opposed to, say, the issue of how to manage blowouts we are inflicting on the opponent.

We all hope that's true, but it's nice to know the ability is there if needed. We kind of proved that several times last season, and with Harvin, it just gets better. And with our history of slow starts on the road, I think we'll need it more than you're implying. Home is a solid lock on 6-7 wins and very possibly 8. So the road becomes more important. We'll probably need 12-13 wins in '13 to take the division. Quite possible IMHO, but not a lot of marging for error.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:04 am 
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Coming back from deep deficits might also be something that might be more likely to happen in the playoffs, as it did against Atlanta, if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:06 am 
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I know this isn't the best use of funds right now but I really hope we can get one of the pass catching FA TE's in here. Or a cheap rookie. We might end up with too many targets and too few balls, but can you imagine Fred Davis running around out there too. I hope they keep an eye on their markets, with so many available in FA and in the draft, got to to think at least one guy is gonna fall by the wayside.

Our offense is so stacked. Assuming the line keeps growing together.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:09 am 
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JKent82 wrote:
I know this isn't the best use of funds right now but I really hope we can get one of the pass catching FA TE's in here. Or a cheap rookie. We might end up with too many targets and too few balls, but can you imagine Fred Davis running around out there too. I hope they keep an eye on their markets, with so many available in FA and in the draft, got to to think at least one guy is gonna fall by the wayside.

Our offense is so stacked. Assuming the line keeps growing together.


There are a bunch of good TEs in the draft, wouldn't mind forgoing the FA retreads for a young guy to bring along behind McCoy and Miller.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:17 am 
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kearly wrote:
I would have said that Seattle had easily the most dynamic and versatile offense in the NFL before Harvin. Now it's just getting ridiculous.


This is probably one of your shortest, yet most profound writings Kearly, and I agree 100%. I wasn't seeing a big time WR as a desperate need like many on these boards. The offense was running pretty smoothly as it sat at the end of the year. That being said, this upgrade makes our offense prolific and should have defensive coordinators quaking in their cleats.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:37 am 
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HawksFTW wrote:
JKent82 wrote:
I know this isn't the best use of funds right now but I really hope we can get one of the pass catching FA TE's in here. Or a cheap rookie. We might end up with too many targets and too few balls, but can you imagine Fred Davis running around out there too. I hope they keep an eye on their markets, with so many available in FA and in the draft, got to to think at least one guy is gonna fall by the wayside.

Our offense is so stacked. Assuming the line keeps growing together.


There are a bunch of good TEs in the draft, wouldn't mind forgoing the FA retreads for a young guy to bring along behind McCoy and Miller.


Most definitely. Would be a lot more prudent financially too. Gonna start having to bring some balance to the $ handed out to the defense and offense. Need cheaper options waiting in the wings.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:56 am 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
My take is that the Seahawks are becoming the first offense in the league that is neither a "run-first offense" nor a "pass-first offense" in the strict sense of either phrase. The best term I've heard so far for what we ARE becoming is yours, the "multiple offense".

Think about it--during USC's best years under Pete we had a mix of player styles and a balance of run and pass on offense.

RBs: Fargas, White, Bush, Dennis, Reed and others
WRs: Williams, Colbert, Smith, Jarrett
TEs: Holmes, Byrd and Davis
QBs: Palmer and Leinart

Those guys have had mixed success after college, but at the college level, that was a hell of a lot of offensive firepower. And we generally kept it pretty close to 50/50 run to pass.

I will not be surprised at all if the Hawks end up similarly.

Edit: I forgot to mention the Pistol/read option wrinkles, which can lead to either run or pass and make things even more confusing for defenses. Yeah, I'm liking this.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:10 pm 
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I still see us at our core as a power run team. It's what made us so successful last season: teams cheat up to stop the run and Wilson beat them over the top.

Adding more speed to the slot or the outside is only going to reinforce that type of play action passing game.

Like the OP said though, with Harvin on the field it changes up some things. I can see us adding more wrinkles. I already see us passing more with Wilson's breakout performance and more trust by Carroll. But, the NFL is a copycat league. The most consistently successful and dominant teams last year were power run teams (Seattle, SF, Houston half of the year, NE was most dominant when their run game worked....when they went away from it, they lost, Wash when their offense and run game finally clicked). People saw the run going away, but now teams are going to see that rushing the ball is still very effective.

It will be fascinating to see what our offense really morphs into, but at it's heart, you don't have a OL that blocks like ours, coupled with a one two punch like Lynch and Turbin and go away from those strengths; you play off of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Yes i think they are i dont think Pete will go away from what got him in this position. That is Power a running team that uses play action to free up space for recievers down field. what i remember about his USC teams that was kind of his formula don't think he would get all pass happy like the Falcons did which i think hurt them for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Our offense incorperates the read option out of the base offense, so it could be a read option play or a roll out or a screen or a sprint draw or a dive and Wilson has all those options based on where the DE and LB and Safety try to line up. We don't send a Western Union to the sidelines when we run it which is why it's effective for us, we also don't want or ask Wilson to be a ball carrier in it as RGIII and Kaepernick are, running is designed few and far between unless there is a breakdown and a hole that he can gain 10 and slide in.

Vikings were a run first team as well, when Rice and Harvin were there with Farve it was more balanced but Peterson still got a lot of carries. Our offense is now more like FIRE and BRIMSTONE, we will burn you either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Yes we're still a power run team. Lynch, Turbine, Harvin all excel running through the tackles. Lynch just grabs the first three defenders that hit him and carries them on his back because he needs a snack after he gets his first down. Turbine will develop into mini Beast.

But Harvin will have the disadvantage of having to learn the ZBS and probably learning to take his runs outside more often out of the zone read plays. I don't think its a big disadvantage.

Wear down defenses with Beast mode and Jr., then let them chase Harvin all over the field out of zone reads that take away their numerical advantage.

Make them bite hard on that and RW will absolutely torch them for being mismatched against our receivers.

Lose track of RW, and he'll turn on his elite speed and blow your socks off.

Theyre going to need 14 men on the field. By far we can run the scariest and most efficient offense in the NFL.

When Russell starts running an efficient no-huddle, it will be unstoppable.

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I hope Bevell is drawing up plays on napkins at the local applebees, he has has the ability to create the most dynamic offense ever and get is own gig if he plays his cards right. Man fun times are ahead !

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:03 pm 
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We are a primary power WIN team

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 Post subject: Re: Are the Seahawks still primarily a power run team?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:08 am 
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m0ng0 wrote:
I hope Bevell is drawing up plays on napkins at the local applebees, he has has the ability to create the most dynamic offense ever and get is own gig if he plays his cards right. Man fun times are ahead !


Does anyone still have a picture of Ray Rhodes Defensive game plan written on a napkin. I want to remember it as being a joke about the prevent d he love to help us lose with.

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