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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Considering that Boldin is on the record as saying he'll retire if traded by the Ravens, I'm going to have to say "Seahawks win, Seahawks win!"

Now if Mr. Boldin returns from Africa and accepts the trade, then I'll reevaluate things.

In the interim, I'm going to go back to watching Jim Harbaugh slyly molest Screech w/back rubs and lingering high-fives on "Saved by the Bell."

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Isolate it to the matchup against each other

Boldin on one corner and Crabtree on another - good matchup for us

Percy Harvin on 49ers working the middle - horrible for us

Now Percy Harvin over the middle, sides, running using his speed as part of the read option - equals us running wild on 49ers and passing wild

Matchup perspective this helps us more. Percy on 49ers would have been REALLY BAD

Now over the next five years we have a difference maker. 49ers replaces Moss with a different old WR that is really good but not sure it is a huge improvement


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Bolden was a great value there is no denying that, Harvin is a better talent. With the cost of each I think it is very even. I feel much better knowing we have a bonafide playmaker at WR who can line up anywhere and will have to be game planed for that wondering who we'd take at #25. There is not guarentee Tavon Austin will be a Harvin, or that Richardosn or Short would have been there at #25. We had the cap room and just made our selves Superbowl Favorites. SF kept themselves in play with us with this move but I think our Offense will literaly be unstopable. If we can add a playmaking TE in the 2nd or 3rd we will be a juggernaut like NE and New Orleans but with a power running game an a QB who can run. Could be the best offense ever assembled on paper. SF is still just solid.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Hasselbeck wrote:
We did. No comparison.

Sherman/Browner can handle big slow physical guys.. the Niners have no one that can handle Harvin (who had a great game against them last season)


exactly.. Crabtree and Boldin while both really good/approaching great, don't have the 1 V 1 advantage that receivers with elite agility and explosiveness bring against our physical CB tandem.

I'm trying to think of a starting pair of wideouts that presents less of a matchup problem for BB/Sherm.. any help here?

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 pm 
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for SF to improve with Boldin, Kaepernick is actually going to have to throw his way more then 3 times a game. SF doesn't have Baltimore's field stretchers allowing Boldin to work better underneath.

But Boldin would actually catch the 3 targets a game he'll get, unlike Moss.

Not much of an improvement.

The Seahawks just got a playmaker whenever he touches the ball that can add to an already potent rushing attack, do wonders with an already solid receiving corps (the only caveat to that would be Wilson likes to spread the ball around), or sit back on kick returns with Washington and abuse opponents coverage and open up lanes.

Potentially elite total yardage freak that is happy to leave Minnesota and contend for a SB with a real quarterback, vs. a solid but containable possession guy contemplating retirement that can only be as good as Kaepernick's ability to improve with his progressions. I'd say Seattle improved the most.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Who improved the most? SEA. Who got a better value? SF.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:19 pm 
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This is actually a great question, and one that's a lot closer than folks may think. I really didn't like hearing that SF got Boldin for a 6th. That's ridiculously cheap, especially when compared to what we paid for Harvin. Just on a picks for picks basis, we gave up a ton more.

Yes, we got a ton more in return, as we should have. And I think the Harvin move was spectacular for us. I think we got the better side of that deal, too, even giving up a first plus for him. He'll be with us for a good several-year window, and he's one of the best in the game right now. That move was the perfect one, and came at the perfect time - much better than if we'd have sprung for a marquee receiver last year.

That said, SF's a bit more stacked than we are. They went further in the playoffs than we did. They did accomplish more, as painful as it is to say. It's fact. They're missing very little, and to pick up a guy like Boldin might just have been what they needed to take them to their next Super Bowl win. I think he's better than many are saying. I see a lot of sour grapes from Seahawks fans regarding him - "Eh, he's not really that good anyway. Too old. Done already. Etc." But the fact is, he's a very solid receiver, and that's one key cog that the 49ers needed. To get that cog for a mere 6th rounder is absolutely phenomenal for them.

I think the whole thing is a push. We got the better player, but we sacrificed more for him. They got the better deal if taken straight up, but as they were gunning for Harvin as well, it evens things out. If Harvin were to have gone to them, it would have been very bad for the Seahawks, and that alone makes getting him worth a little more in cost. The fact they got Boldin evens things up for them.

One thing is for sure: the NFC West is going to be VERY COMPETITIVE next year. And VERY TOUGH to beat.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
This is actually a great question, and one that's a lot closer than folks may think. I really didn't like hearing that SF got Boldin for a 6th. That's ridiculously cheap, especially when compared to what we paid for Harvin. Just on a picks for picks basis, we gave up a ton more.

Yes, we got a ton more in return, as we should have. And I think the Harvin move was spectacular for us. I think we got the better side of that deal, too, even giving up a first plus for him. He'll be with us for a good several-year window, and he's one of the best in the game right now. That move was the perfect one, and came at the perfect time - much better than if we'd have sprung for a marquee receiver last year.

That said, SF's a bit more stacked than we are. They went further in the playoffs than we did. They did accomplish more, as painful as it is to say. It's fact. They're missing very little, and to pick up a guy like Boldin might just have been what they needed to take them to their next Super Bowl win. I think he's better than many are saying. I see a lot of sour grapes from Seahawks fans regarding him - "Eh, he's not really that good anyway. Too old. Done already. Etc." But the fact is, he's a very solid receiver, and that's one key cog that the 49ers needed. To get that cog for a mere 6th rounder is absolutely phenomenal for them.

I think the whole thing is a push. We got the better player, but we sacrificed more for him. They got the better deal if taken straight up, but as they were gunning for Harvin as well, it evens things out. If Harvin were to have gone to them, it would have been very bad for the Seahawks, and that alone makes getting him worth a little more in cost. The fact they got Boldin evens things up for them.

One thing is for sure: the NFC West is going to be VERY COMPETITIVE next year. And VERY TOUGH to beat.


Good post.

Seattle improved more for 2013 simply because Harvin is a better player right now. However, when you're looking ahead to 2015, 16 and beyond Seattle giving up a first rounder and a mid round pick, plus committing probably 11-12 mil a year to Harvin may make it tough for them to re-sign some of their core young players later on.

So in that sense it could hurt them a bit down the road.

I guess though you worry about that when it comes.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:32 pm 
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We can't even make a good comparison on the deals until we know Harvin's contract and who would have been available to us with the 25th pick. Even then, we're the ones who gave up more for more and they gave up less for less.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:55 pm 
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It was posted earlier that the ninnirs are picking and choosing trying to get the player or two they need to get back to the SB because they think their time is now.

I agree with that.

I'll go further...I think the ninnirs are a better team than us at the end of the season. Many of you will point out the huge win against them but at our house. I hate to agree with Harbaugh but I too felt the game turned on the blocked field goal returned by us for a 21-0 lead. If they make that FG making the score 14-3 the game could have been a lot different.

They have more picks, we have more money to spend so that will factor in.

But we had better be as good as some of you think we are cause last year a couple of games we basically pissed away cost us a fair shot at the SB. If we do that again the ninnirs likely will get another trip to the big show and given enough chances even a monkey can type a word on a typewriter.

We made our offense better cause of this trade. Now lets hope our offensive line will have played together enough to really make Beast Mode a game changer. We need to be able to run against anyone and it has to be when WE want to.

So they got what I think is a really good receiver who is older but can fill a void they have in sure handed receivers. But with a limited time to help them out.

We get a hot dog that can help us win for several years. We will have to wait to see how that works out.

I think we need more help on defense!! We have to get back to being able to stop teams from advancing again when WE want to stop them.

On paper for next year this trade is a wash. Lets hope it will keep us from losing dumb games like we did last season. Because finally everyone ought to see that every game is important.

My dream for next season is not what we have done so far but to be like the stillirs of the mid 70s that could run against anyone all the time. Could pass on anyone all the time. Who never to let up but keep pressing the entire game. Chuck Noll sure as hell didn't use 2 deep and/or prevent defenses. That was a lot like the Packers of the late 60s early 70s too.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Why did San Francisco jump to make this move after the Harvin news broke?


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:58 pm 
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I think who wins the division comes down to one thing, and one thing only:

Which teams QB will better adjust to the adjustments the league makes to him.

Both teams are stacked with talent around their new stud QB's. The team that will win the division (assuming both stay relatively healthy) is the one who's QB takes the next step. My money's on Wilson.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:00 pm 
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The Radish wrote:
It was posted earlier that the ninnirs are picking and choosing trying to get the player or two they need to get back to the SB because they think their time is now.

I agree with that.

I'll go further...I think the ninnirs are a better team than us at the end of the season. Many of you will point out the huge win against them but at our house. I hate to agree with Harbaugh but I too felt the game turned on the blocked field goal returned by us for a 21-0 lead. If they make that FG making the score 14-3 the game could have been a lot different.

They have more picks, we have more money to spend so that will factor in.

But we had better be as good as some of you think we are cause last year a couple of games we basically pissed away cost us a fair shot at the SB. If we do that again the ninnirs likely will get another trip to the big show and given enough chances even a monkey can type a word on a typewriter.

We made our offense better cause of this trade. Now lets hope our offensive line will have played together enough to really make Beast Mode a game changer. We need to be able to run against anyone and it has to be when WE want to.

So they got what I think is a really good receiver who is older but can fill a void they have in sure handed receivers. But with a limited time to help them out.

We get a hot dog that can help us win for several years. We will have to wait to see how that works out.

I think we need more help on defense!! We have to get back to being able to stop teams from advancing again when WE want to stop them.

On paper for next year this trade is a wash. Lets hope it will keep us from losing dumb games like we did last season. Because finally everyone ought to see that every game is important.

:les:


I think what we saw last year was the two best teams in the NFC were Seattle and SF. I wouldn't say the Niners were better or worse, because it's really close.

However, I think Vegas has it right when they put SF and Seattle as co-favorites to win the superbowl this year. I'd be surprised if either didn't represent the NFC.

What these two trades show is what the NFC West was lacking for a long time, which is a desire and necessity to improve the teams because of a championship caliber competitor. When the NFC West was bad for so long trades like the Harvin one didn't need to be made to make the playoffs. But the bar has been raised now and both Seattle and SF are competing more with each other than anyone else.

It's exciting and it's making both teams strive not only to be good enough, but the best.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 pm 
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hawkmanj wrote:
Why did San Francisco jump to make this move after the Harvin news broke?


We were hoping to land Harvin too, so the move was likely made to try and answer what Seattle did.

The Niners needed help at WR with Moss gone, and Manningham coming off major knee surgery.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:03 pm 
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I like both trades, but the answer is easily Harvin. Harvin is going to be our Wes Welker, with kick return and rushing contribution ability to boot. He will force defenses to play our offense differently. This move reminds me a lot of the Julian Peterson acquisition in 2006. Peterson really helped ramp up our pass rush for a couple years through pure dynamism and because he changed how offenses had to play against us. I see Harvin as being the offensive equivalent as a difference maker.

Sure, we paid a LOT, but Atlanta paid a LOT for Julio Jones, and they aren't complaining about it.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
I think who wins the division comes down to one thing, and one thing only:

Which teams QB will better adjust to the adjustments the league makes to him.

Both teams are stacked with talent around their new stud QB's. The team that will win the division (assuming both stay relatively healthy) is the one who's QB takes the next step. My money's on Wilson.


Well, if Kaepernick responds to those adjustments in the same way he responded to the Seahawks shellacking the Niners (by pouting on the sideline), then my money is on Wilson as well.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:18 pm 
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That 2009 Vikings offense with Brett Favre, AD, Rice, Harvin was dynamic. This Seahawks team has the potential to be as explosive but with more depth. RW is like a young Favre (great field general) but with wheels and can hit anybody from any angle. Time to tweek the defensive now.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:24 pm 
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I really wanted us to go after boldin. But harvin is obviously a better talent. To me boldin would have been a stop-gap move just like he is for the niners.

We got better but i'm a little concerned about all the money we have tied up in wide receivers.

I'm now convinced the FO doesn't see much of a future here for sidney rice. Don't be surprised if even after trading for harvin we take the best WR available in round 2 of this draft.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
That 2009 Vikings offense with Brett Favre, AD, Rice, Harvin was dynamic. This Seahawks team has the potential to be as explosive but with more depth. RW is like a young Favre (great field general) but with wheels and can hit anybody from any angle. Time to tweek the defensive now.


That Vikings team downfall was Farve's turnovers. The Hawks have a similar offense -- Lynch (a step below AP but one of the top 5 backs in the league), Rice, a more experienced Harvin but a QB who is a much better decision maker than #4, I must say I like it a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Both teams got a great player today. The difference being one is 24 and yet to play his best football and the other in his 30's and probably on the descent. We got just what we needed, a matchup nightmare with blazing speed and quickness that can score in a wide variety of ways. The big question for the 49ers is what are they gonna do with their defense to stop us? Their secondary was exposed in the SB and probably gonna lose Dashon Goldson in FA & Aldon Smith never got a sniff on the QB when defensive holding expert Justin Smith was hurt. They are a damn good team but not without their weakness' just like us. If we can add a bit of pass rush in FA, a will backer and flex TE in the draft along with some major development of young players already on the roster then I could care less what the 9ers do cuz we will control our own path to the SB. I think we made a great move today as long as Percy buys into what we got goin here.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:58 pm 
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The Seahawks got better today and in the long run with the Harvin addition to the offense for what should be years to come. we lost some picks but the hawks roster is pretty solidified an there just is'nt much room for ten draft picks. but we did lose a first rounder and that is never easy but with Harvin's talent it was a can't miss move unless Harvin turns out to be a cancer in the locker room and is cut after one year but that is close to impossible with what we got goin in the North West.


But the Boldin move is a big one that makes the 9ers an already dominant run team even more dangerous in that category with Boldins ability to block paired with crabtree's is nothing to take to lighly. Not to mention the big time hands(clutch) and physical nature that comes with him but would rather have the 9ers take boldin over Harvin 10 out of 10 times would not want to be feeling what the rest of the NFL is feeling right now anxiety.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:49 pm 
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Short term and compensation? 49ers. Long term as well as overall talent? Seahawks no question

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:55 am 
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Official answer? Nobody will know for sure until at least when the season's over.


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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:17 am 
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Is this a joke thread?

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:29 am 
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The Yugoslavian wrote:
Short term and compensation? 49ers. Long term as well as overall talent? Seahawks no question

What does that mean? You think Boldin will have a better year than Harvin??

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:38 am 
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The Niners lost two key receivers in Manningham and Moss. Boldin is probably a slight upgrade over Manningham but still leaves the Niners a little bare overall at WR. He helps them but only to get back to where they were to start last season. He (by himself) doesn't make them better.

Harvin makes Seattle better. Better than at the beginning or end of last year.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:52 am 
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Boldin keeps getting called old and slow. He is old, keeping him healthy all year will be the challenge for the Niners, whose love of veterans is the biggest difference between Seattle and the Niners. But calling him slow is a mistake, Boldin has never been fast. He adds to the toughness of the Niners big time. Moss and Manningham were mistakes because they didn't add toughness. Boldin does. He is a great post up player who comes up big when it matters.

Boldin will be a big test of Kaepernick's talents. It took Flacco some time to trust that the guy is open when he looks covered.

Seattle won this in the eyes of Vegas, who moved us from 10-1 to 5-1. And we won this on the field. Harvin adds stress to all three phases of the other teams coordination. They knwo going into the game they need more points than normal. I know in Minnie Harvin was used sparingly on special teams, but not in Seattle, our stars play special teams, and he will stress out the other teams specials. And it goes without saying, he adds stress to the defense. My immediate thought was how a team that doesn't like to sub much, like the Niners, is going to struggle to cover him with a safety or linebacker. In fact, on first down against base defenses, Harvin's presence makes loading the box against Lynch a fools errand.

Simply put, Boldin is a physical presence, but he doesn't make a defense wonder who they need to double team. Harvin does.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:02 am 
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Good post scottemojo. Good points.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:03 am 
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The answer to the question is rather obvious. But, we will never know about the draft picks we are giving up. I'll take it though as I wanted another dynamic playmaking WR.

SF has issues in their secondary, and more than likely are going to lose Goldson (sp). They needed help there before yesterdays events.

F.A. begins today, It has been uneventful early on for the previous P & J years, but as we all know......We DON'T know.

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 Post subject: Re: So who improved the most today? SF or SEA?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:04 am 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
The Yugoslavian wrote:
Short term and compensation? 49ers. Long term as well as overall talent? Seahawks no question

What does that mean? You think Boldin will have a better year than Harvin??


Value wise maybe, Boldin is still a very good WR at what he does. Possession etc. Harvin will cost more in salary and a 1st this year, albeit yes he will impact our team more and is the better talent. But from a pure short term and value stand point it's hard to argue the 49ers didn't do "better". 2 or three years from now is when it will be apparent we won these trades though.

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