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McGruff
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Post subject: What we do not need  Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:33 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 567
Location: Blaine, WA
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A starting LEO.
Sure, Clem is injured and recovering from major knee surgery, but we've got this guy we spent a first round pick on as a pass rusher who, oh yeah, led all rookies in sacks this year.
Sure he didn't get any sacks in his one start . . . Playing without Clemons or Jones and with an injured Bryant and Mebane . . . Very few pass rushers can do it on their own.
Irvin will be fine at LEO. What we need a complimentary pieces to make his job easier until Clemons returns, and you don't spend 5 million or a first round pick on a complimentary temporary piece. So we can scratch Freeney, Osi, Spencer, Dummerville, Avril, etc.off the list. OT only can we not afford them, we don't need them, and they won't want to come to a team offering a temporary role player position.
What we need is a starting DT who can crush or penetrate the pocket, and a rotational LDE who can put pressure from the other side.
We don't need a LEO.
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Scottemojo
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:38 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am
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McGruff, did we need a LEO for the game at Atlanta? Irvin wasn't fine in that one. In fact, he got RickRolled by a running back who just got cut from his team.
When Irvin is an every down player, he will be a LEO.
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SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
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FlyingGreg
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:40 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 5706
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
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  I disagree completely. Irvin is not suited for LEO, at least not yet. LEO isn't just pass rushing, it's holding the point of attack and playing the run as well - which Clemons does well. Irvin gets moved out of the play way too easily to fill that role. He is still a situational pass rush specialist. We can't force him into the role of LEO because we need it. We definitely need a LEO. The need for a pass rushing DT is mutually exclusive. _________________ @SeahawkGregYEAH, WE HAVE A DUDE NAMED CHRISTINE...DEAL WITH IT!
Last edited by FlyingGreg on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Trrrroy
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:41 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:24 am
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Yep, Irvin looked pretty bad as an every down guy against Atlanta, but I'm not ready to write him off yet. I remember being 100% positive that Unger would never have the strength to anchor and block in the NFL and he proved me wrong. I'm holding out hope Irvin can do the same.
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I hate Tim Ruskell.
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McGruff
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:42 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 567
Location: Blaine, WA
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Scottemojo wrote: McGruff, did we need a LEO for the game at Atlanta? Irvin wasn't fine in that one. In fact, he got RickRolled by a running back who just got cut from his team.
When Irvin is an every down player, he will be a LEO. Irvin played fine in the Atlanta game. the problem was we had NO ONE else on the line who could rush the passer. Early in the season when our pass rush was clicking we had Clemons, Irvinand Jones working together. When Jones went down the pass rush dipped because three pass rushers are better than two. When Clemons went down it collapsed because two pass rushers are better than one. Irvin needs help, not replacing. No one on the market is an upgrade over what Irvin brings . . . But upgrading 3tech and rotating Red out is an imperative. _________________ <A>
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Treefiddy
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:43 pm |
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:32 am
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Irvin doesn't have the size for the run defense
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McGruff
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:43 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 567
Location: Blaine, WA
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Treefiddy wrote: Irvin doesn't have the size for the run defense Lets see where he comes in after an offseason before we say that . . . _________________ <A>
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Basis4day
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:45 pm |
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Scottemojo wrote: McGruff, did we need a LEO for the game at Atlanta? Irvin wasn't fine in that one. In fact, he got RickRolled by a running back who just got cut from his team.
When Irvin is an every down player, he will be a LEO. You mean that playoff game where a rookie was covering for a Veteran who has started every game this year on a week's notice at a new position? Clearly there is no way he could improve. Rookies never improve with experience. It's a fact. Show me one example of a player getting better at a position as he plays more games at that position. Cut Irvin now. Eat his salary. It's worth it in the long run.
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Give me some damn skittles...
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Basis4day
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:47 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:57 am
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Treefiddy wrote: Irvin doesn't have the size for the run defense Clemons weighs 9 more lbs than Irvin.
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Give me some damn skittles...
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Largent80
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:47 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:38 pm
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Location: SoCal
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Holy shit folks, Irvin was a ROOKIE. Do you get it that rookie D-Lineman aren't all that?
We have larger needs than a LEO.
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McGruff
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:50 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
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Location: Blaine, WA
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Largent80 wrote: Holy shit folks, Irvin was a ROOKIE. Do you get it that rookie D-Lineman aren't all that?
We have larger needs than a LEO. Exactly my point. All this talk about Freeney, Osi, etc. when we've got a guy who is younger, improving, and who we drafted specifically for this reason. _________________ <A>
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Basis4day
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:55 pm |
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McGruff wrote:
Exactly my point. All this talk about Freeney, Osi, etc. when we've got a guy who is younger, improving, and who we drafted specifically for this reason.
If anything, we need to bring in those guys for Irvin's role as a situational pass rusher before Clem got hurt.
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Give me some damn skittles...
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FlyingGreg
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:55 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 5706
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
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Let's all just agree that the pass rush needs significant improvement. That could come from an edge rusher, DT, LEO, pass rushing Will, scheme adjustment, more aggressive play calling by Quinn, whatever.
The front office and coaches know what we need.
_________________ @SeahawkGregYEAH, WE HAVE A DUDE NAMED CHRISTINE...DEAL WITH IT!
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Scottemojo
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:58 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am
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From the game wrapup at PProFootballFocus.com Quote: Missing Clemons
There might not be a more important player to the Seahawks defense than Chris Clemons. We drew attention to that during the week and wondered where the pressure would come now that he was out of the line-up. The answer, unfortunately for Seattle, is that it didn’t come from anywhere. Bruce Irvin (-4.1) was ineffective as a full-time player, leading the Seattle D-line rotation with 47 snaps (tied with Brandon Mebane for the most), but produced only one hurry, and was visibly hesitant and slower off the ball when he had to diagnose the play first.
Combined the Seahawks could only pressure Matt Ryan on ten snaps, and only knocked him down once, with none of the defensive linemen accounting for more than three pressures in total. While Irvin might be an impressive rush-specialist, this game showed he has a long way to go if they ever want him to be an every down defensive end. If they don’t, then they need to find cover for Chris Clemons going forward. The irony of McGruff's OP? He says both that Irvin was the only one providing pass rush and that we don't need another pass rusher. SMH
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SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
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McGruff
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:58 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 567
Location: Blaine, WA
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Basis4day wrote: McGruff wrote:
Exactly my point. All this talk about Freeney, Osi, etc. when we've got a guy who is younger, improving, and who we drafted specifically for this reason.
If anything, we need to bring in those guys for Irvin's role as a situational pass rusher before Clem got hurt. But are any of those guys going to want to play the role of temporary situational pass rusher, and are we willing to pay for that? _________________ <A>
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Hawkspur
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:00 pm |
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I'd like to think that Irvin will develop skills to become a more complete DE, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope that it will be happen this season. I would really like to see Freeney here to help out for a year or two while also giving Irvin an up close and personal look at a whole tonne of pass rushing moves.
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McGruff
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:01 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 567
Location: Blaine, WA
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Scottemojo wrote: From the game wrapup at PProFootballFocus.com Quote: Missing Clemons
There might not be a more important player to the Seahawks defense than Chris Clemons. We drew attention to that during the week and wondered where the pressure would come now that he was out of the line-up. The answer, unfortunately for Seattle, is that it didn’t come from anywhere. Bruce Irvin (-4.1) was ineffective as a full-time player, leading the Seattle D-line rotation with 47 snaps (tied with Brandon Mebane for the most), but produced only one hurry, and was visibly hesitant and slower off the ball when he had to diagnose the play first.
Combined the Seahawks could only pressure Matt Ryan on ten snaps, and only knocked him down once, with none of the defensive linemen accounting for more than three pressures in total. While Irvin might be an impressive rush-specialist, this game showed he has a long way to go if they ever want him to be an every down defensive end. If they don’t, then they need to find cover for Chris Clemons going forward. The irony of McGruff's OP? He says both that Irvin was the only one providing pass rush and that we don't need another pass rusher. SMH No, that's not what I said. I said we need two other pass rushers . . . But not from the LEO position. That is taken care of with a guy who was our top draft pick and rookie sack leader . . . We need pass rushing from places other than LEO. Lets focus our energies there. I would argue that what the Atlanta game showed is that one pass rusher isn't enough. In fact the whole season showed that. _________________ <A>
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lukerguy
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:04 pm |
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I think you are both right. We need a backup LEO, but we don't need a starting LEO. Clem will recover.
_________________  "We all we got, we all we need"
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JKent82
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:05 pm |
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David Hsu stated it best on twitter a couple of days ago.
Last year we brought in Irvin and Jones to help improve the Pass rush. Now obviously we can agree Clemons>Irvin by quite a bit right now. We lost Clem and Jones.
We have to upgrade the pass rush. It's just as important as it was last year. We need at least one new LEO that's capable of holding his own. Maybe Irvin can start but we still need one. Clemons needed another Leo behind him and he's far more proven then Irvin.
Best case for me is adding a 1 year FA, draft a speed DE, draft a DT/maybe FA. We need to infuse talent.
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Largent80
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Post subject: Re: What we do not need Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:18 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:38 pm
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Location: SoCal
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I really don't want to see us draft the same position 2 years in a row with more obvious needs glaring us in the face.
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