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 Post subject: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:44 pm 
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With all the talent on this team we are not going to be able to resign all of them. The smart money is to figure who is a product of the system and who is not. We need to be proactive in our negotiations process to also determine if someone brings more value in trade than they do the available vs cap space.

I believe one of the biggest downfalls to most successful systems is over paying players and even though I don't see this FO doing that you still have to wonder if they will be proactive and get value for the guys that will price themselves out of our market or will they let them walk into FA and settle for a comp pick.

With all the FA coming soon, this is the year we should actually start seeing these type of moves. Who do you think is expendable that would be a smarter value as a trade than a large contract?

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:52 pm 
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I would like to keep our secondary intact and I don't believe our young linebackers will be either valued very high (KJ, Malcolm Smith) and we don't want to let Wagner go, we drafted him for a reason.

I would say Bryant and Mebane on the line could become expendable depending on the draft.

On the offense I'm not sure. I would almost say Sidney Rice and Zach Miller because of their cap numbers.

while it's true we won't be able to keep everyone keep in mind that by being creative we can keep most of the team intact for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:54 pm 
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It's about age, contract, and depth of a position, If your three deep at Safety and in practice you know the drop off is negeligible then Kam or Earl could be moved, some of these will not be fan popular. Kam having Guy and Johnson behind him I would think is a bigger chance since Maragos isn't as close to the talent level that Johnson is with Kam. Just an example.

You also have to ask if your depth allows you to keep the same scheme, Browner is a physical in your face guy while Sherm is a more cover guy, Maxwell and Lane along with Thurmond would have to step up to that level. Lane or Maxwell would have to be the physical CB that jams then unless we find someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Jeron Johnson, Jeremy Lane, Byron Maxwell, Mike Morgan and Matt Flynn are guys that are quite a bit better than some guys that get a lot of playing time for other teams and could compete for starting jobs elsewhere. I don't forsee anyone getting traded, but to play along with this thread these are guys that would have value elsewhere - especially given this front offices ability to identify and develop talented defensive backs I could see teams that are thin in the secondary having some interest.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:55 pm 
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John Moffit is lazing his way into trade talks....

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I'd throw Leon Washington on that list. Someone might be interested in his return skills, who knows.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:58 pm 
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bestfightstory wrote:
John Moffit is lazing his way into trade talks....


I'd trade Moffitt for TJ! straight up.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:06 pm 
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We let Bryant test free agency and were still able to sign him back. At the time, he seemed pretty critical to the way our line worked. His foot injury leads me to wonder if that's still the case. I don't see us overvaluing anyone who has shown an ability to contribute.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Typically trades are made on contract year players . . . taking out players eligible for RFA status in 2014, that leaves . . .

Breno Giacomini
Paul McQuistan
Kam Chancellor
Anthony McCoy
Ben Obomanu
Michael Robinson
Golden Tate
Walter Thurmond

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:30 pm 
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McGruff wrote:
Typically trades are made on contract year players . . . taking out players eligible for RFA status in 2014, that leaves . . .

Breno Giacomini
Paul McQuistan
Kam Chancellor
Anthony McCoy
Ben Obomanu
Michael Robinson
Golden Tate
Walter Thurmond


Trade all those guys to move up and get Barkley.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Hawknballs wrote:
I would like to keep our secondary intact and I don't believe our young linebackers will be either valued very high (KJ, Malcolm Smith) and we don't want to let Wagner go, we drafted him for a reason.

I would say Bryant and Mebane on the line could become expendable depending on the draft.

On the offense I'm not sure. I would almost say Sidney Rice and Zach Miller because of their cap numbers.

while it's true we won't be able to keep everyone keep in mind that by being creative we can keep most of the team intact for a while.


Zach Miller????? Are you friggin crazy? Ya let's get rid of Mr. Clutch!!! Good plan!!!


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:10 pm 
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The guys I could see released or resigned to smaller contracts are Leon Washington, Obo, M.Rob, Bryant, Mebane. I think it depends on who they draft and if they think some of the FA DTs are upgrades.

It's pretty brutal to look at it this way , but many fans don't realize that the last year of the CBA 2010 there wasn't not a cap and almost all teams are having to do corrections even with the increased cap for this year since then. For instance in 2009 the Hawks were dealing with a cap that will not most likely not be equaled until 2015.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:20 pm 
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McGruff wrote:
Typically trades are made on contract year players . . . taking out players eligible for RFA status in 2014, that leaves . . .

Breno Giacomini Breno has earned a significant pay raise. He is a guy with a nasty streak who plays through the wistle and adds attitude to the entire O-line. I don't think he will break the bank however and could probably get a bigger pay day elsewhere but I have a feeling he wants to stay and will be a reasonable resign.

Paul McQuistan Paul is an all purpose guy who again won't be highly expensive but drfinitely could get more elsewhere and also be a starter on many lines. Unfortunately I don't see any trade value in him and I also believe he will go somewhere else to become a starter. Would love to keep him around though. Great depth that can play multiple positions.

Kam Chancellor Kam realy is a wild card. The guy really is the most "system guy" we have. I love me some Kamtrack but if he is not dead set on staying a Seahawk and is looking for that big payday, he is someone we could move for picks. Would hate to see him go but not as much as I would hate to see our team become crippled by cap debt and the FO has shown they can find guys of his caliber.

Anthony McCoy I was very excited with the McCoy signing and had real high hopes for him but I have come to believe he is a Daryl Jackson clone. A guy with all the talent but just doesn't have the commitment. He's great when his number is called but otherwise I think his mind is just somewhere else. I don't see any trade value in him either but if they could swing a pick of any kind for him I would say take it. The other thing to consider with McCoy is he will be coming into a contract year so expect him to have a break out year. That is always the nature of these type of players. They feel the pressure of the big contract and FA and put their nose to the grind stone to have a breakout year and that makes them dangerous because it is hard to tell if it was a breakout year or just a contract year. Even with a huge year, I would have no problem letting him walk and take a comp pick just because I have seen enough players like him slip back into mediocrity while eating huge parts of the cap.

Ben Obomanu Great lunch pail guy but no trade value.

Michael Robinson I thought he recently signed a new contract but again, no trade value and he will be affordable. I do think you make him a priority to resign based on reasonable numbers, because he really is a great speacial teamer and team leader.

Golden Tate I hate that Tate is on this list. I do believe he will become an elite receiver and will probably have a breakout year this year. I will trust the FO on him. I would love to see them get him resigned sooner rather than later because I believe his price tag will go way up and unfortunately right now he won't bring much in the way of trade value.

Walter Thurmond
No trade value and even if he has a healthy/breakout year, he won't garner much interest in FA due to health in college and the pro's.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Do we have to trade someone?

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
Do we have to trade someone?


Only way to not and stay under the cap is to let some of them walk. We have some huge signings coming up over the next couple/few years and we will need as much cap space as possible to keep as many of those key guys as possible. If your options for a player are letting them walk into FA, over paying them to keep them or trade them for a pick, what is your choice?

Facts are if Thomas, Sherman, Browner, Wilson, Wagner and more all get the contracts their agents think they deserve, no one team will be able to keep them all unless you have made sacrifices elsewhere. There just isn't enough cap space to keep a team like the 90's 49ers together.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:56 pm 
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The Seahawks are in good shape with their 2013 cap. After three years of roster churn, I'm looking forward to this quite off season. Their team vision has been revealed and the basic architecture is there for everyone to see. The Seahawk community is in good shape. Their program works. No need to worry about others or anything outside their control.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:24 pm 
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we trade no one and ask guys to do their contracts, thats all....i doubt this team trades away anyone. Someone said trade Earl Thomas? Dude was just voted All-Pro...meaning best in the league. You don't trade away the best in the league.....wow some people just don't think with their heads

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:30 pm 
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kthebestwayw wrote:
we trade no one and ask guys to do their contracts, thats all....i doubt this team trades away anyone. Someone said trade Earl Thomas? Dude was just voted All-Pro...meaning best in the league. You don't trade away the best in the league.....wow some people just don't think with their heads


Someone was putting up an example of how you would look at the roster to trade or let go a player using Kam and Earl as examples in what you looked at as far as salary, age and then depth of the roster.

Many times reading the whole post before jumping to a conclusion is required before making stupid opinions on a post made as an example.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Hawknballs wrote:
I

I would say Bryant and Mebane on the line could become expendable depending on the draft. .


Umm no, Mebane is a run stuffing monster. He clogs up everything up the middle, Bryant and Irvin are both liabilities in the running Defense.

We need Mebane, especially since we are in the same division as the run happy 9ers.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Doesn't cap space roll over another year? Also, in 2 years when most of our key young players hit their 1st contract years isn't the cap space for the league going to increase quite a bit ? I don't know if we do HAVE to lose key players... I think our FA has done pretty well with things. I mean obviously this team now will not be exactly the same in a couple years cause that never happens, but I just don't think we'll have to drop the most key positions and top players necesarily (unless some serious mistakes are made or some ridiculous offers are made by other teams that just aren't worth trying to match when FA comes up)

Anyway I could be wrong about this as I'm not the most educated with the new cap system but from what I've read/heard that seems to be what I've gathered.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:49 pm 
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All unused cap does row over into 2014. Spending cap surplus is not mandatory.

There are also cap reduction schedules built into some contracts. Zack Miller's scheduled cap number for 2013 is $11 million. But in 2014 it drops to $7 million and then to $6 million in 2015. So that contract has team friendly cap easements built into it.

And then there are competition cap easements built into their program. The winners play another season and the losers leave behind cap savings for the next year. We should see continue to see competition purges this year.

I'm sure they are looking at least four years down the road. And they have all the information to work with. Where as we have only incomplete pieces to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Nice info Jville, appreciate that

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:44 pm 
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We might get to the point where it's just better to keep guys until they're FAs and let them walk. Picks are nice but getting a contract year performance and a compensatory pick is nice too.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:47 am 
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BirdsCommaAngry wrote:
We might get to the point where it's just better to keep guys until they're FAs and let them walk. Picks are nice but getting a contract year performance and a compensatory pick is nice too.

I totally agree with the contract year performance factor. However, the question really is what will P&J do? They like draft picks. Trading players gets draft picks. If what I read about the Green Bay philosophy that John brought with him is true, then they won't be resigning the majority of their FA's. They'll want to build up draft picks.
If that's the case, and I think it is, then this discussion isn't really about what should they do, but what players WILL they trade away for picks?

I'm thinking Kam is the most likely. Browner is possible because we have guys who can step up. They proved it when he was out. Tate cpuld pull in some draft picks, but I don't think he's going anywhere. He's one they'll keep because we lack depth at WR and Rice is a health concern. And also it takes time for rookie WR's to learn the route tree so we need veteran WR's.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:21 pm 
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So ..........

Who was the #1 iron man, with 1103 snaps, for the Seattle Seahawks last year?

And who projects the attitude and sets the tone for the Seahawk defense?

Kam Chancellor .... thats who.

Any notion that Chancellor is expendable is like some silly off the wall notion that Marshawn Lynch is expendable.

The front office has traded players for picks when the players no longer fit and/or the team has a surplus at the positions ... and the players fit a need of trading partners. It's really that simple.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:14 pm 
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kam used to set the tone for the defense. Last year he kinda vanished. We had a thread around here showing each players production in the secondary in 2011 and 2012 and Kam had really dropped off. That's why I think he's the most expendable. Hard hitting safeties sometimes have short shelf lives. If Kam is trending downwards then now's the time to trade him while you can still get something because of his reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Vanished?

He delivered one thousand one hundred and three snaps ..... and you call that vanishing?

:177692: Your not making any sense.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:07 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
kam used to set the tone for the defense. Last year he kinda vanished. We had a thread around here showing each players production in the secondary in 2011 and 2012 and Kam had really dropped off. That's why I think he's the most expendable. Hard hitting safeties sometimes have short shelf lives. If Kam is trending downwards then now's the time to trade him while you can still get something because of his reputation.


Roy Williams comes to mind. I love Kam but I think as fans we are too sentimental with players. I don't think Kam's skill set is irreplaceable.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Jville wrote:
Vanished?

He delivered one thousand one hundred and three snaps ..... and you call that vanishing?

:177692: Your not making any sense.

nearly identical number of tackles and assists. However, in 2011 he made 3 FF's, 4 INT's and 13 PD's. 2012 he had 1 FF, 0 INTs and 4 PD's. Not nearly as many blistering hits. Not nearly the production. A safety is going to get his tackles. It's the other things that set them apart. Kam didn't have a great year in 2012. That in no way doesn't mean he didn't show up and earn his paycheck, it just means he may be trending down.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:17 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
Jville wrote:
Vanished?

He delivered one thousand one hundred and three snaps ..... and you call that vanishing?

:177692: Your not making any sense.

nearly identical number of tackles and assists. However, in 2011 he made 3 FF's, 4 INT's and 13 PD's. 2012 he had 1 FF, 0 INTs and 4 PD's. Not nearly as many blistering hits. Not nearly the production. A safety is going to get his tackles. It's the other things that set them apart. Kam didn't have a great year in 2012. That in no way doesn't mean he didn't show up and earn his paycheck, it just means he may be trending down.


Earl Thomas interceptions peaked in his rookie year and he didn't get his statistical tackles in 2012 .... instead they took a significant nose dive.

Does that mean you think Earl Thomas needs to also go on the trading block?

Statistics are like draft picks. They are only tools. The one statistic that speaks loudly is victories. And, I'll take the 2012 record over the 2011 record any day. We have two young exceptional men at both safety positions. Why wreck it?


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Kam was playing on bum ankles a lot of the season but still was able to be very visable as our run defender and was making his presence felt in the passing game. Ask Vernon Davis if Kam is invisable.

Also with more range from the LB's his tackles should be lower since he will be playing in the box and not as far out on the edge chasing down guys to the sidelines.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:20 am 
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This is not a slam on Kam, it is a question about who goes if we can't keep em all. It also would be based on said player wanting to much and is willing to go into FA to get it.

There are alot of factors that come into play. Right now Kam's trade value is likely at it's max and if he were to be that guy that wants max pay then it might make sense to get trade value out of him. I am assuming the FO would already have a good idea of what we will be able to afford as well as which players will likely push the limits.

If you can't afford to keep everyone then someone has to be sacrificed and unfortunately it is going to be the beloved players who will be rhe ones who will warrant; draft picks. Not the fringe guys that you could easily do without.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:53 am 
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Things like the following have me wondering about Flynn's trade value.

From Mike Silver's article on NFL's six teams explore alternatives

Quote:
"The thing about Matt Flynn, who no else wanted him last year?" said the same AFC personnel executive. "Philbin didn't want him; that told the whole story. Especially now, after Kolb and Cassel have failed. It confirms people's worst fears: that he's undersized, that the game's too big for him. Most teams viewed him as a really quality backup last year, and I doubt that's changed."


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--six-teams-explore-alternatives-to--blame--gabbert--other-2012-nfl-starting-qbs-023017123.html

Sure is a lot of negative anonymous feedback on his value if you give weight to Schefter and King as well as this article. Looking forward to how the team plays this out since there is such a wide opinion among Seahawks fans on his true value. Color me unsure.

EDIT:

BTW, nice article from FieldGulls on Matt

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013-nfl-offseason/2013/3/4/4038216/matt-flynn-trade-seahawks-nfl-combine-draft

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Just a thought here guys. I never really thought Revis was realistic or a good fit for us but what if you could do something like this:

Seahawks trade:
Matt Flynn
Brandon Browner


Jets trade:
Darrel Revis

It would be nice if we could get them to swap 1st round picks with us too but that might be asking too much. You might be able to get a conditional pick though for next year...


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we trade?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:30 am
Posts: 512
below is a list of players that are important to the seahawks success and don't think they can let go

1. Okung
2. E. thomas
3. R.sherman
4. Wilson

i did'nt include lynch becuase who knows where he'll be at when his contract is up


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