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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Didn't Wagner when asked say he was more comfortable and saw himself more as an outside lb than a mlb? If the right player fell I can easily see him being moved to the outside. It would take the right player though, and I doubt the front office would do it if it wasn't the right player.


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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:26 am 
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I've said over and over again since the day he was drafted that Bobby Wagner is an OLB. He was in college. He has the perfect body for it. He has the perfect skill set for it.

He got trounced by just about every team with a power running game this season. Luckily, there just aren't many teams left in the league that play this style, so I can see where a speed cover MLB can actually be a pretty smart addition, but still, you gotta blow up that hole. Part of that is his build. MLB's that are stout against the run carry the bulk of their weight in their buttocks and thighs. Even the taller ones. Wagner just isn't built like that. He certainly has an OLB body. He also had problems rooting blockers. He's typically a half-step slow into the hole as well, which I will gladly concede can improve with experience.

I'm not a Wagner hater. I think he's a very good NFL linebacker. But he was far better going side to side than he was at blowing up plays at the point of attack. Call me old fashioned, but I still believe the MLB's most important role outside of leadership is stopping the interior run. And I think that is the weakest part of our MLB's game.

I think he would be such a stud outside. It would free him up to use his speed to make those hiccup plays that we haven't had at OLB since Chad Brown. I think he can be a special playmaker in this league, which is still something this defense doesn't have enough of, but it is really hard to make those types of plays when you're buried in the trenches.

Is it realistic? I dunno. But if they're sitting in the second round and they're debating two players, a MLB and a WLB, and they think the MLB is a heckuva player, I could see it happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Dan Quinn sparks my intrest in Florida defenders. MLB Jon Bostic is rated a 3-5 round prospect if we could get him in the 4th and start him, allowing us to slide Wagner to WLB. I think it would be a screwd move by upgrading our WLB and filling our MLB with a player who already knows his coaches defense (lessen the rookie learning curve).

Would Manti Teo be an option at #25?

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Last edited by Wenhawk on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I'm fairly content to let the runner up for DROY continue to develop at that position.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:43 am 
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I expect this to happen. MLB and WLB are very similar positions and Wagner actually fits the WLB mold better than the MLB. WLB have to engage blockers less and have to have phenomenal tackling, coverage and sideline to sideline speed to make plays on RBs on the front side. Blitzing prowess also helps.

We will draft an LBs this year with more length and size than Wagner. This is better for coming downhill and avoiding blockers - something required for an MLB as well as getting in passing lanes. These also allow him to better transition to SLB should anything happen to Wright - something Wagner could not do easily because he lacks length and leverage at the point of attack.

In our system, think as MLB as a somewhat middle ground between SLB and WLB (though more toward the WLB).

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:48 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I think moving Wagner to WLB is legit. I still don't trust his run gapping instincts. And his speed is easy to project.


Yes, and he's excellent in coverage too. His (1st) pick on Tannehill last year takes exceptional awareness.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:44 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
While we are at it lets put Kam at lber, Sherman at Wr.



Kam at LB is not too crazy but I think you were just being a smarta$$. After reading some of the others coments have you been convinced Wagner to WLB is not that ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Wenhawk wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
While we are at it lets put Kam at lber, Sherman at Wr.



Kam at LB is not too crazy but I think you were just being a smarta$$. After reading some of the others coments have you been convinced Wagner to WLB is not that ridiculous.


Some around here (myself included) have a tough time justifying moving a player when they have already shown they have what it takes to excel at their position. Wagner is a rookie who was runner up for defensive rookie of the year.

Doesn't it make more sense to address other needs at #25 and find a WILL LB later? They could have replaced Hill with Wagner at the WILL and go with Ruud at MIKE. They didn't. They went with the Rookie at MIKE. And all he did was be the runner up for DROY. I think those facts speak volumes about where he should play. And again, hes a rookie. Let the rookies develop, especially the ones who have shown so much when given the opportunity,

If this front office has shown me anything, it's an ability to find DB's and LB's.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Basis4day wrote:
Wenhawk wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
While we are at it lets put Kam at lber, Sherman at Wr.



Kam at LB is not too crazy but I think you were just being a smarta$$. After reading some of the others coments have you been convinced Wagner to WLB is not that ridiculous.


Some around here (myself included) have a tough time justifying moving a player when they have already shown they have what it takes to excel at their position. Wagner is a rookie who was runner up for defensive rookie of the year.

Doesn't it make more sense to address other needs at #25 and find a WILL LB later? They could have replaced Hill with Wagner at the WILL and go with Ruud at MIKE. They didn't. They went with the Rookie at MIKE. And all he did was be the runner up for DROY. I think those facts speak volumes about where he should play. And again, hes a rookie. Let the rookies develop, especially the ones who have shown so much when given the opportunity,

If this front office has shown me anything, it's an ability to find DB's and LB's.

Ruud wasn't physically ready to play the Mike, he would not have lasted very long, and they knew it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Basis4day wrote:
Some around here (myself included) have a tough time justifying moving a player when they have already shown they have what it takes to excel at their position. Wagner is a rookie who was runner up for defensive rookie of the year.

Doesn't it make more sense to address other needs at #25 and find a WILL LB later? They could have replaced Hill with Wagner at the WILL and go with Ruud at MIKE. They didn't. They went with the Rookie at MIKE. And all he did was be the runner up for DROY. I think those facts speak volumes about where he should play. And again, hes a rookie. Let the rookies develop, especially the ones who have shown so much when given the opportunity,

If this front office has shown me anything, it's an ability to find DB's and LB's.


I wasn't so much arguing that they should move him or that it is best to move him, but mearly brought up the topc of could they move him.
according to some this draft is stronger at WLB than MLB anyways but figured that if the right MLB fell into our lap could Wagner play WLB and be just as productive. Sounds like that is a very real possibility and those that instantly cried for the offseason to be over or to move offensive players to defense or defensive player to offense could have though out their responses in a more useful manner by providing their honest opinion or some actual data. I have not really argued he should be moved to WLB but I wouldn't put it past Pete to do such a thing and that's a main reason why I started this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:33 pm 
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I wasn't so much arguing that they should move him or that it is best to move him, but mearly brought up the topc of could they move him.
according to some this draft is stronger at WLB than MLB anyways but figured that if the right MLB fell into our lap could Wagner play WLB and be just as productive. Sounds like that is a very real possibility and those that instantly cried for the offseason to be over or to move offensive players to defense or defensive player to offense could have though out their responses in a more useful manner by providing their honest opinion or some actual data. I have not really argued he should be moved to WLB but I wouldn't put it past Pete to do such a thing and that's a main reason why I started this topic.


Fair enough. I wouldn't put... well anything past Pete at this point. I just deem it, very, very unlikely that players like ET, Kam, Wagner, Wright, Sherm or Browner are going to find any significant changes to their roles in the base defense.

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Sounds like that is a very real possibility and those that instantly cried for the offseason to be over or to move offensive players to defense or defensive player to offense could have though out their responses in a more useful manner by providing their honest opinion or some actual data.


I think they have, but in many previous threads that been brought up in this regard. You can only care enough to type out the same responses so many times. Personally i'd rather see more threads started about switching the roles of underwhelming players rather than pro-bowlers or all-pros.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Basis4day wrote:
I think they have, but in many previous threads that been brought up in this regard. You can only care enough to type out the same responses so many times. Personally i'd rather see more threads started about switching the roles of underwhelming players rather than pro-bowlers or all-pros.


Valid point, just not sure we have anyone underwhelming on this team. The only player that you could argue didn't improve last year and will be on the team this year is Kam and people have already discussed him at WLB. I think drafting a MLB and moving Wagz to WLB is 10X more likely than drafting a SS and moving Kam to WLB. Yet both players have the athletic ability to pull it off if we went that direction.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:39 pm 
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While I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to move Wags or KC to WLB, I don't think it's going to happen. The only way PC/JS would pull that move is if they deemed another player to be better at that position.

Which MLB in this class is better than Wagner? How many SSs are better than Chancellor in this class? I would support that the answer to both questions would be the same, None.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:59 am 
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Wenhawk wrote:
We have had a ton of success starting rookie MLB's so I would not be too worried.


I can think of three in our 36 year history, so could you please list the guys you believe fit your criteria to fit this sentence. I definitely do not believe we have had a ton of success with MLB's let alone with rookie starters.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:28 am 
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I can't even begin to convey how heinous of an idea this is.


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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:39 am 
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Move Red Bryant to DE? Whts next moving Brandon Mebane to Wr? Some of these responses are idiotic and embarassing.

Really, it wouldnt be that big of a deal at all if he moved from MLB to WLB. Football players play football. For all we know Wagner might be better on the outside.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Wagner is a stud. You have to have a player in this D that can tangle in the A gaps as well as play deeper middle in a tampa 2 coverage between the safeties as well and run with players in man. He can do all that and I can't stress enough how much of a rarity that is. Save for some rookie mental mistakes in diagnosis he was everything you could want in a MLB and will be mentioned as one of the top MLBs in the league for a decade. Some had him rated the single best 4-3 MLB this last year.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:05 pm 
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vin.couve12 wrote:
Wagner is a stud. You have to have a player in this D that can tangle in the A gaps as well as play deeper middle in a tampa 2 coverage between the safeties as well and run with players in man. He can do all that and I can't stress enough how much of a rarity that is. Save for some rookie mental mistakes in diagnosis he was everything you could want in a MLB and will be mentioned as one of the top MLBs in the league for a decade. Some had him rated the single best 4-3 MLB this last year.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.


No kidding! And despite the fact that he handles that considerable scope of responsibility so well, we have a few people wanting to move him to a spot where the scope is much narrower, while gambling on a rook to replace him at MLB.


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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:25 pm 
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I'm not wanting too, just pointing out that it could be an option so if we we did draft a MLB we all don't freak out. If they fall in love with a MLB in this class and Wagner can be an impact WLB then I'd back it. I think WLB will be our #1 weakness if Branch and/or Jones are resigned. If that's the case and they are looking to draft a WLB at #25 would we be better draft Green/Brown for WLB or Ogletree/Minter/Teo at MLB?

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:44 pm 
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bellingerga wrote:
Why move him from the spot he did extroardinarily well at, for a Rookie. He should have been rookie of the year IMO, and he's only going to get better.

You don't fix something that's not broken. Just leave him there and draft a WLB



I even heard Pete Carroll say that Wagner was their MLB and he wasn't going anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:57 am 
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Wenhawk wrote:
I'm not wanting too, just pointing out that it could be an option so if we we did draft a MLB we all don't freak out. If they fall in love with a MLB in this class and Wagner can be an impact WLB then I'd back it. I think WLB will be our #1 weakness if Branch and/or Jones are resigned. If that's the case and they are looking to draft a WLB at #25 would we be better draft Green/Brown for WLB or Ogletree/Minter/Teo at MLB?


You don't need to address your biggest weakness at 25. If this FO had shown anything, its that they know lbers. Wagner has earned his spot at MLB. Let him grow.

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 Post subject: Re: Wagner as WLB
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:34 pm 
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I kinda sorta see what the OP is saying. It's possible that a good MLB prospect could fall into our laps, but not very probable. More likely to find a good WSOLB, so we can leave our DROY runner up at MLB. What would really be cool is to find someone with the same skillset as Wagz, and he wins the WS job leaving Malcom as depth. KILLA!


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