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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:27 pm 
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DavidSeven wrote:
Seahwkgal wrote:
In Harvin's defense, he got hurt BY US. Yep. Week 9. He was getting me mega points on my fantasy league until then. I said it then, that Harvin's loss was a bigger issue for Minn not making the playoffs. He is that valuable.(and yes, I know what a big year AP had).


And yet, Minnesota made the playoffs without him, and many would argue they played better after he was IR'ed for having a bad attitude. (They finished 5-2 after the Seahawks game.)


:34853_doh:

Or maybe... the whole league MVP willing them to that 5-2 record had something to do with it too.

Their passing game was virtually non-existant after that injury. Ponder only went over 200 yards TWICE.. the last coming in their biggest game of the year in Week 17.

Harvin is a game changer.. and that's why he's about to get paid

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:33 pm 
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If I'm a fan of the whiners, cards, or rams and I see the Seahawks pickup Percy Harvin before the draft even happens I'm not feeling good about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:37 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
An article on why it might not be such a great idea: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/the-argume ... to-seattle


Thanks for posting. Too bad it isn't in audio. Lota folks around here are so busy posting they don't have time to read.
Quote:
Harvin had an embarrassing tirade directed toward Frasier, disrespecting the coach during the season when Harvin was sidelined with an injured ankle.

Teammates were present, and Max was told that is when Harvin left the team and was put on injured reserve.

Sources say teammates were disappointed in Harvin’s actions and the organization has moved toward less tolerance for that behavior.

Harvin apparently had a similar incident when Childress coached the team.


:hmmmm: Think there might be a pattern there?

Quote:
In 2009 and 2010 he suffered severe problems with migraine’s and was constantly listed on the injury report as a consequence. He’s also suffered many other issues including ankle, hamstring, hip, shoulder and finger injuries. In 2009 he was listed as questionable seven times. He was on the injury report eight times in 2010, seven times in 2011 and five times in 2012 before being placed on injured reserve (missing Minnesota’s last five games).

:shock: Damn he makes Sidney Rice look like an Iron Man.
Quote:
Harvin also refused to run stadium steps with the rest of the team during offseason conditioning before the 2007 season, according to the Sporting News, and once allegedly threw wide receivers coach Billy Gonzales to the ground by his neck.


:34853_doh: Charming
Quote:
Harvin told strength and conditioning coaches while boycotting stadium runs, “this (expletive) ends now,”

:177692: He's not going to buy in. This is an exercise in futility. Sure glad he's a Viking problem.


P.S. Last time I checked the cap number for the offense out weighed the cap number for the defense by two to one. Any one want to speculate on the impact of engaging in a bidding war for more veteran players for the offense this off season?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:41 pm 
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IMO Harvin is definitely an upgrade and won't be a detriment to the chemistry of the team if acquired. Reuniting with Rice and having an future star QB in RW is enough to make him happy. He's a workout freak and an ultimate competitor/playmaker. Harvin wasn't happy when Minny let Rice come to Seattle after having built such a rapport. That Vikings-Hawks game added fuel to the fire as Minnesota looked to be spiraling toward a losing streak with an inconsistent Ponder. Meanwhile Seattle's future looked bright with RW. Without a real #2 wideout Minny expected featuring Harvin as a receiver, in the backfield with AD and occasionally as a returner. In Harvin's defense he played through some nagging injuries and was still atop the league in receptions when he was placed on IR. It seemed rather punitive when Minny decided so quickly to IR him. As for migraines, the only headaches he has now is from his second-year QB's inconsistency and from his head coach's questionable play decisions.
Tate has Harvin's skillset but not quite on the same talent level. Give him a few more years with RW and Tate will likely be mentioned alongside Harvin as a receiver. Harvin was a freak in college but had the advantage of playing with Favre and Rice as a rookie. Percy would have NO problem learning Seattle's offense--he played in Bevell's offense before. Only negative would be cost of acquiring Harvin and the likelihoodr he takes receptions away from Tate and Rice. The plus is he can bring it to the house on any given play.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:53 pm 
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themunn wrote:
HUGGY wrote:
Bus035 wrote:
Personally, I am a diehard Seahawk fan. As I know all of the rest of you are. How would you feel about a Flynn/3rd Round flip for Harvin/Joe Webb (very hypothetical)? Harvin is a game changer and we all know what the Vikings were able to accomplish with Favre, Harvin, and Rice. Furthermore, I am very intrigued by the possibility of Harvin, Rice, and Wilson working together. I believe Harvin would immensely improve our team. Also, I am a slight Golden Tate fan but I think he is an obvious "poor man's" version to Harvin, just my opinion. I would love others thoughts.............Thanks!


Harvin only ran a 4.28 low at the combine. I dunno...????


You mean a 4.41 right?
Compared to Tate's 4.42?


No...I mean what I said. Apparently what I saw was an error or a trick but it was what I saw. My bad. The google search hit I saw isn't up now. Don't believe everything ya see on the internets. I try to only offer reliable facts but today's offering obviously was not.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Hasselbeck wrote:
Seahawks.net .. where Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin are better than a 24 year old with 4x their production.

(Face palm)



Seriously.... Harvin is on another level completely. This place is bonkers sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Question: If Harvin was such a headcase then why would Minny be so content to keep him until he told him he wanted out. If there is any question about his character why would Seattle read news articles when they could easily ask Bevell and Rice for insight? Harvin likely keeps in touch with Rice wouldn't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
Tate has Harvin's skillset



Maybe by being a small shifty guy, but Harvin is a true burner. Tate is not that fast really.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:58 pm 
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LOL Harvin won't buy in ........ so how are you guys going to fit his monster contract into Seattle's structure and and write a contract it in such a way as to protect the team when things go wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:05 pm 
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TJH wrote:
Russ Willstrong wrote:
Tate has Harvin's skillset



Maybe by being a small shifty guy, but Harvin is a true burner. Tate is not that fast really.


Rewatch the Hawks-Vikings and you'll see Tate was not just featured like Harvin but at times but made shiftier moves after the catch. Throughout the season Tate was our speedy receiver on bubble screens, end-arounds and occasionally in the backfield. Speed-wise Tate and Harvin aren't that far apart. Leaping for tall catches I'd say it's almost a toss up. IMO Harvin has more strength and toughness but has had more injuries due to more physical plays.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:01 pm 
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If we're planning on throwing the ball 500+ times next year then a Rice, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin WR corps + ZM would be like a dream come true. Russell would throw for like 5000 yards.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Seahawks | Could show interest in Percy Harvin
Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:09:58 -0800
The Seattle Seahawks could show interest in Minnesota Vikings WR Percy Harvin if he becomes available via trade this offseason.
Share: | Source: The Tacoma News Tribune - Eric D. Williams
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/33/nfl#ixzz2KemskC5F

RW looked great in the Pro bowl passing to top notch WRs, no beats will be skipped.

I would give up whatever round draft pick they wanted (future contract friendly for both sides) due to we get starters in all rounds now a days. Harvin is a top 10 WR and no one can say that any of these 2013 drafties will be. The hawks should get a proven product while they can.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
If we're planning on throwing the ball 500+ times next year then a Rice, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin WR corps + ZM would be like a dream come true. Russell would throw for like 5000 yards.



Zeb....How is it that things seldom work out like it appears on paper?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Spokane wrote:
Seahawks | Could show interest in Percy Harvin
Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:09:58 -0800
The Seattle Seahawks could show interest in Minnesota Vikings WR Percy Harvin if he becomes available via trade this offseason.
Share: | Source: The Tacoma News Tribune - Eric D. Williams
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/33/nfl#ixzz2KemskC5F

RW looked great in the Pro bowl passing to top notch WRs, no beats will be skipped.

I would give up whatever round draft pick they wanted (future contract friendly for both sides) due to we get starters in all rounds now a days. Harvin is a top 10 WR and no one can say that any of these 2013 drafties will be. The hawks should get a proven product while they can.


Harvin is NOT a top 10 WR. Could he be? Does he have the potential? Sure. But right now, this moment, after 4 seasons in the pros, he's not. As pointed out earlier in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Bigpumpkin wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
If we're planning on throwing the ball 500+ times next year then a Rice, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin WR corps + ZM would be like a dream come true. Russell would throw for like 5000 yards.



Zeb....How is it that things seldom work out like it appears on paper?


You didn't know that bringing in Percy is a guaranteed championship?

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:16 pm 
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With my 1000th post I am now officially guarunteeing that the Seahawks will sign Percy Harvin. It is now fate... let it happen...

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:30 pm 
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WOW!! This "bandwagon" is becoming top heavy!!


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:47 pm 
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It depends on the cost. I would not like to mess up out cap for the future because we are going to have to sign a lot of our young guys like Sherman, Chancellor, ET, etc soon. I prefer draft to get more offensive weapons but if JS & PC traded for Harvin then I would not oppose it. I trust our FO a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Id give Harvin a chance, but given his migrains/character issues, I would not give a 2nd. I am not sure how long Tavon Austin will last but he's a guy with similar skill set. If you want Harvin you may as well draft Austin in the 2nd (if he's there).

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:07 pm 
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lukerguy wrote:
Id give Harvin a chance, but given his migrains/character issues, I would not give a 2nd. I am not sure how long Tavon Austin will last but he's a guy with similar skill set. If you want Harvin you may as well draft Austin in the 2nd (if he's there).



The entire Seahawk Scouting Department is going over Tavon's record with a "fine toothed comb". There is some serious "evaluation and negotiatations" being spent over this pick!!


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Flynn and a 2nd rounder sounds great to me. No WR in the draft better than Harvin, and he could be our return man when leon's done.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:01 am 
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I dunno about you guys, but I want our FO to be able to afford bringing back our stars when their rookie contracts expire.

I don't think we are in a good position financially to make this move.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:36 am 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
Flynn and a 2nd rounder sounds great to me. No WR in the draft better than Harvin

Value is what matters when you are building a team under the constraints of a salary cap. Thanks to the rookie wage scale there will be quite a few WRs in the draft who are much better values than Harvin would be.

Any team that trades for Harvin is going to need to work out a $10-$12 million/year contract with him and then deal with his migraine issues and attitude problems. On the other hand, that second round pick that you want to give up is going to net us a promising young rookie who we will pay just $1 million/year for four years. That value is worth it's weight in gold and is the reason why the teams that draft well win Super Bowls while the ones who sign expensive FA's miss the playoffs.

Imagine if we had six second round picks. We could draft a high upside WRs, a stud TE, a young QB with upside to backup Russell, a good weak side LB and a lineman on both sides of the ball. Their combined salary would be just half of what it would take to pay Harvin. Our only problem is that we do not have as many second round picks as we would like and there is no reason why we should give up the one we do have just to overpay somebody else.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:32 am 
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I agree with almost everything you just said. However we're talking about 1 2nd round pick not six, Harvin will impact our team more than a 2nd rounder (Russell Wilsons excluded). And there's always ways to manipulate cap to keep your core guys, look at the patriots. We are going to have roster turnover but i'd rather have Harvin than Sidney. The vikings think so to, even being intimate with Harvin's issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:46 am 
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After reading a lot of this thread and thinking about it - put me in the camp of bring Harvin to Seattle. I think with a talent like him our offense would be pretty much unstoppable and only help the defense that much more.

I understand the risks with Harvin - but I think he is worth it. You can't always play it safe if you want a Championship. Harvin could put us over the top next year. Do it!

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:32 am 
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While I agree that there is some talent in the draft this year, I'd argue that unless you hit on one of the two receivers that end up being game changers that contribute the entire year and are able to consistently get separation and run routes like a veteran, you are much better suited adding a bonefide GAME CHANGER that a defense HAS TO gameplan for. The Seahawks are already right there, we are ready to push for a Superbowl now, not in two years when a rookie develops, but this season, a healthy and motivated Harvin with Russell Wilson would be a "championship move". Go Hawks.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:45 am 
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SNDavidson wrote:
While I agree that there is some talent in the draft this year, I'd argue that unless you hit on one of the two receivers that end up being game changers that contribute the entire year and are able to consistently get separation and run routes like a veteran, you are much better suited adding a bonefide GAME CHANGER that a defense HAS TO gameplan for. The Seahawks are already right there, we are ready to push for a Superbowl now, not in two years when a rookie develops, but this season, a healthy and motivated Harvin with Russell Wilson would be a "championship move". Go Hawks.


Agree 100% with this. If we have to overpay a few guys to make that final push for the Super Bowl do it. There are no guarantees of anything down the line, and as great as JS has been in the draft, a rookie WR may never turn out to be what Harvin can be. I say go for the Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:00 am 
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Harvin is set to make 2.9 million in the last year of his deal, and it seems he wants north of 10 million per year in his new deal.

No doubt it would cost at least a second to get him, plus half the free cap Seattle has right now. The move would make us probably the odds on favorite for the title, though. It would probably handicap any efforts to fix the D-line through free agency, so there are risks.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:14 am 
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Here's a quick summary on Minnesota's predicament with Harvin by the guys who cover the Vikings at Minneapolis Star Tribune.


[i]Questions continue to loom about Harvin's future as a Viking
Posted by: Dan Wiederer
Updated: February 10, 2013 - 6:12 PM

Last year, around this time, Vikings coach Leslie Frazier kept hearing about Percy Harvin.

First, while coaching the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., and later at the 2012 NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Frazier was repeatedly approached by opposing coaches, who in casual conversation just kept mentioning how much of a headache it was to defend Harvin.

The energetic slot receiver was just so slippery, so dynamic, so explosive.

does NOT include Harvin as mentioned earlier:
https://twitter.com/VikingsFootball/status/294097370336079872/photo/1



Edited by radish. Note: you cannot post an entire article. a couple of sentences or a small paragraph is all and then link to the original article.

Some of you still do not realize the copyright laws prohibit anyone from printing articles that are propertys of someone else. It puts the site at risk for copyright infringement, so please remember!!


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:16 am 
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I'd like to see us draft a WR instead of over paying for a FA thats not what we truely need. Let me throw a name at you, Darrel Jackson. If we could draft a young player of his caliber, which Jackson was a second rounder, we could mover Tate to the slot and coupled with our current offence. "M-O-N-E-Y" Draft Rogers in the third round! Plus we could draft Ertz in round 1.
Harvin..... please no way.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:23 am 
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Sounds to me like all Harvin wants is a real quarterback. Pete's a player's coach, make it so.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:35 am 
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I just like the way JS rolls with PC. I trust that no matter what these guys do, that they won't over-commit to anyone. The way they draft is just amazing. This team in its current form is primarily built of recent draft picks, I don't see them doing anything crazy for one player in FA.

If they see Harvin as a valuable cog, I'm certain they will entertain some interest, but I am more excited for the draft than anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:57 am 
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Percy is a better version of Golden Tate and the way Tate is improving who knows for that long that will be true. What we need is a number one receiver, tall strong and fast that stretches the field if Sidney goes down for a game or more, we can very likely find this on this years draft on the second round.

So giving up a second rounder and half of our cap for a receiver the vikings don't want makes no sense to me.

spend half our cap on two DL guys, draft a TE WR in rounds 1 and 2 and at least two more DL in the early rounds and we will find the promised land


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:08 am 
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seahawksTopGear wrote:
Percy is a better version of Golden Tate and the way Tate is improving who knows for that long that will be true.



C'mon, man. Golden isn't catching Harvin. They aren't even close to the same player.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:35 am 
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We can't afford him without losing some key players down the road. We're in the much more cost-effective business of making big name players now; not taking them.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:44 am 
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Why pay Larry Fitzgerald money to a guy who will only be PART of an above average receiving core?

We already know dude will hold out from TC without the new contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:47 am 
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Harvin is intriguing, especially if we could get him for a 2nd round pick (which I highly doubt).

But acquiring Harvin does three things;

1. Makes Tate expendable, which means 3 yrs of developing him goes down the drain.
2. Still doesn't address our need for a "X" receiver opposite of Rice. Someone that plays wide ALL THE TIME, and stretches the defense with speed.
3. How much of a cap hit would Harvin be?.......and would his signing mean we can't upgrade the lines, which should be priority #1.

If getting Harvin means having a harder time signing free agent line help and lessens our ability to re-sign and restructure contracts for other key players next year. Then my answer is no.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:20 pm 
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If posters are convinced that he would not be a malcontent if we traded for him, what about trading for him and NOT immediately signing him to a new deal and only have him for the remaining 2013 $2.9 million contract?

We would then get the "all in approach" that i'm seeing the pro-Harvin camp advocate, while not ruining our cap space when we need to start resigning guys after next season.

I doubt this would work based on Harvin's desire to hold out if he stays with the Vikings but it does seem to be a compromise.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Hawken-Dazs wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I want our FO to be able to afford bringing back our stars when their rookie contracts expire.

I don't think we are in a good position financially to make this move.


It is reasonable to think Harvin will command between $7M-$10M per year. What you also have to consider is when we trade Flynn his Base Salary is $5.2 Mil and Ben Obomanu's is not likely to be on the roster this season and his base salary of $2.3M is expandable. So $7.5M of new cap space would make it fairly easy to get Harvin on board and barely touch our current cap space ($18.6M).

18.5+7.5= $26M

Another possibility is that Harvin makes Leon expandable and his base is $1.5M.

26+1.5=$27.5M


So those that don't want to sacrifice our current cap situation should not worry, now if you were already expecting $27.5M is cap space and still don't want Harvin, then I ask who are we going to spend that on? and how much do we really need to roll over?

I'd be willing to spend
$8M Harvin
$4M Branch
$4M Jones
$5M FA DE/DT
That leaves us $6M to rollover to next year and that's assuming Branch and Jones are back.

What are we worried about???

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:03 pm 
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this would be a pointless trade as the seahawks already have a poor man's Harvin in Golden Tate (they are both coming up on new contracts.. Harvin is going to cost about $8-10 mill a year.. Tate will be less than half that). they are nearly identical players Harvin just has better speed.. Tate is on the upswing however and proved to be clutch this year scoring some big tds and was the only guy on seattle that displayed good YAC. My guess is he continues to improve as he and Russell Wilson have become very good friends and hang out on the regular with their wives.. Seahawk's management isn't stupid.. they will keep their draft picks and let that chemistry build into something special.. not to mention mike wallace in free agency is a much better option for the seahawk's if they want to improve the receiving core.. he has played sandlot ball in pittsburgh for the last several years and has the speed we need to stretch the field on deep balls.. rice and wallace on the edges and tate in the slot would be DANGERUSS.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:08 pm 
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redhawk253 wrote:
this would be a pointless trade as the seahawks already have a poor man's Harvin in Golden Tate (they are both coming up on new contracts.. Harvin is going to cost about $8-10 mill a year.. Tate will be less than half that). they are nearly identical players Harvin just has better speed.. Tate is on the upswing however and proved to be clutch this year scoring some big tds and was the only guy on seattle that displayed good YAC. My guess is he continues to improve as he and Russell Wilson have become very good friends and hang out on the regular with their wives.. Seahawk's management isn't stupid.. they will keep their draft picks and let that chemistry build into something special.. not to mention mike wallace in free agency is a much better option for the seahawk's if they want to improve the receiving core.. he has played sandlot ball in pittsburgh for the last several years and has the speed we need to stretch the field on deep balls.. rice and wallace on the edges and tate in the slot would be DANGERUSS.


Harvin was a league MVP candidate last year during the first half of the season. He has scary speed, can return, catch and run out of the backfield.

Golden Tate has none of these things. Remember, we tried to have him return punts? Yeah, that didn't work out too well. I love me some Golden, but you're selling Harvin short by saying we don't need him because we already have Tate. Tate is closer to a Bobby Ingram type, than a Percy Harvin gamechanger type of player.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Harvin>Tate

Harvin is more versitile and productive than Desean Jackson and his explosiveness and game breaking ability are is the range of if not better than guys like.

CJ2K
Jamal Charles
Reggie Bush
Desean Jackson
Javid Best

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:58 pm 
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I'm betting Pete really wants him, bad. He is the quintessential Pete Carroll special weapon/fiery competitor, with a little immature youth to mold with his win forever magic. He is Pete's dream boat. If you asked Pete to ID his perfect offensive weapon it would be Percy Harvin.... And Bevell knows how to use the kid!

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:16 pm 
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I really don't get the obsession some people have with nabbing another supposed superstar receivers at a $10 million+ price tag.

Two things: 1) FA receiver acquisitions have to have the biggest bust rate of any position in the NFL; 2) Great QBs can win without a top 5 receiver and have done it time and time again. No one thought Denver had a better set of receivers than Seattle before Peyton got there. Brady has consistently been successful with plug-and-play journeymen as his targets. Eli has made receivers with mere above-average talent look better than they are.

I've been saying it since the season ended: if there's a good value proposition out there at WR, of course you jump on it, but this is not a position worth sinking a huge amount of additional cap space in. It would be a different story if we didn't already have a commitment to Rice. But we do.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:22 pm 
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DavidSeven wrote:
I really don't get the obsession some people have with nabbing another supposed superstar receivers at a $10 million+ price tag.

Two things: 1) FA receiver acquisitions have to have the biggest bust rate of any position in the NFL; 2) Great QBs can win without a top 5 receiver and have done it time and time again. No one thought Denver had a better set of receivers than Seattle before Peyton got there. Brady has consistently been successful with plug-and-play journeymen as his targets. Eli has made receivers with mere above-average talent look better than they are.

I've been saying it since the season ended: if there's a good value proposition out there at WR, of course you jump on it, but this is not a position worth sinking a huge amount of additional cap space in. It would be a different story if we didn't already have a commitment to Rice. But we do.


A. How is a 24 year old electric game changer bad value?
B. I agree with whatever JS chooses to pay anybody.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:35 pm 
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SNDavidson wrote:
A. How is a 24 year old electric game changer bad value?


When that 24 year old has a history of injury and personality concerns and that money can be spent more effectively on other areas (namely defensive line). No one was saying another 5'10-5'11 slot guy was the key piece we needed at the end of last season. If we could pay him on his rookie deal, it might be worth considering, but Harvin has already said he plans to hold out for a bigger contract. If we're going to pay big money to another receiver, he better either be big and physical or a speedster on the edges. Harvin is neither.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Alright, like most of you guys I've read up on just about everything I can get my hands on regarding Harvin and listened to all the interviews. Here's my .02 FWIW.

As with all things that John Schneider and Pete Carroll do, it's all about value judgment -- just how much is it going to cost to land Harvin vs. the possible negative consequences of bringing in a potentially volatile personality like this. Putting my counseling hat back on for a second, Harvin profiles as being a highly Obsessive-Compulsive personality with probable Bipolar Disorder thrown in the mix. Now, just to take away the stigma of that for those of you who might be blanching at reading this -- everyone (and I mean everyone) can be diagnosed with something (even me). This is basically academic in the sense that it helps understand some of the personality dynamics going on here.

So in essence what I believe we have here is a guy who wants to win -- and to win badly at all costs. He may struggle at times with being able to relate to his teammates because of the overwhelming obsession with wanting to win has the potential of getting in the way in his relations with others. If in his head he perceives those around him as somehow not being as serious in wanting to achieve that goal of winning as badly as he does (i.e. they're having too much fun) -- he could turn on them and cohesion in the locker room could suffer, as he's going to let everyone know about it. If a coach's directions, decisions, etc. don't make sense in his own mind (or he doesn't agree with the course of action) -- he also has the potential of turning on them. It's as if he's unconsciously saying, "I know how things ought to be done and if you're not doing them my way -- it has to be wrong."

That type of intensity CAN be channeled ... but it is certainly an art-form -- let me tell you. In some ways, this is not unlike the same type of dynamics that Marshawn Lynch brings to the team. He's fairly aloof as well in the way that he deals with both the media and his teammates. But it works for him because they let him do his thing ... and they know what he's going to be about come Sunday morning. Russell Wilson brings a bit of that same singular focus (it's all about winning) as well. So yes, in theory is could work -- but you've got to keep in mind that unlike Lynch and Wilson, this guy can be volatile.

If anyone could harness such a personality and turn it in the right direction -- Pete Carroll MIGHT be that guy. But there are other coaches on this staff besides Carroll. How would he deal with other coaches like Tom Cable, for example, who to me reminds me a lot of Leslie Frazier. That's something else that ought to be considered.

YES, the talent is certainly there. But you DO have to wonder about the level of commitment. If he's truly going to be all in ... and the cost to bring him in isn't totally prohibitive, it might be worth a look see. Personally, if we're talking about anything more than the type of deal that the Hawks did in bringing in Lendale White (in this particular case, I'd say 5th Rounder or below) ... then I'd personally say pass. Percy Harvin could very easily turn out to be Kellen Winslow Part 2 -- a guy who in the end couldn't let go of HIS IDEAS of what his role ought to be -- and of just how valuable he thought he was. We saw how well that played out last year when push came to shove.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:56 pm 
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DavidSeven wrote:
SNDavidson wrote:
A. How is a 24 year old electric game changer bad value?


When that 24 year old has a history of injury and personality concerns and that money can be spent more effectively on other areas (namely defensive line). No one was saying another 5'10-5'11 slot guy was the key piece we needed at the end of last season. If we could pay him on his rookie deal, it might be worth considering, but Harvin has already said he plans to hold out for a bigger contract. If we're going to pay big money to another receiver, he better either be big and physical or a speedster on the edges. Harvin is neither.


Speed, catching abitility, route running, fire, and YAC YAC YAC YAC. Steve Largent wasn't big or fast. Harvin is literally a threat to score every time you put the ball in his hands, pretty valuable in my book, he changes your offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:49 pm 
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The more I think about this, the more I hope we make a move for Harvin. Right now, our offense is very, very good. With Harvin, it's downright scary. Opposing defenses already have to sell out on the run to stop arguably the second-best running back in the NFL, plus the threat of a mobile QB with great escapability who can actually throw. Add one of the most electrifying wideouts in the league to that equation: how is anyone going to stop that? That's not even mentioning legitimate threats like Sidney Rice, Zach Miller, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, and Robert Turbin.

One of the opposing arguments I keep hearing for this potential deal is that we have young guys who will need to be paid soon. I don't want to lose any of our better players either, but all of our core players (Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, Okung, Wagner) have multiple years left on their contracts. Some are worried about holdouts, but thanks to the new CBA, those guys couldn't sign new deals right deal if Paul Allen gave them a signed blank contract. Cap hell is extremely overrated anyway. If your cap guys know what they're doing, you can do pretty much whatever you want. How many years have the Redskins been way over the cap, only to sign more players, without losing anyone important? Not that the Redskins are a shining example of how to run a franchise, but they are a good example of how overrated alleged cap problems are.

I don't know how credible the rumors are, but the rumor right now is that the Vikings would be willing to part with Harvin for less than a first round pick. How often are 24-year old players with his ability available? This isn't the age-old question of seasoned veteran vs unproven rookie. Harvin is only a year or two older than most of the rookie wideouts in this draft class, and we already know that he's a stud. As far as I'm concerned, if the Vikings were willing to accept something like a 2nd and a 4th, it's a no brainer.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:12 pm 
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I see Harvin as a Vince Young type, emotional fiery and unable to control himself. I also see him as a injury prone guy due to how you use him to begin with, he's not a real physical speciman.

No thanks at the cost it would be, we are not building for one year, were building for a repetitive representation. You guys can all enjoy your 30 seconds with Jennifer Lawrence I would rather spend all night with Hallie Berry.

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