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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:18 pm 
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bestfightstory wrote:
I will say this: I definitely don't want to see Harvin in a Niners jersey next year.


Sooo...do i hear you saying that Pete and John are "between a rock and a hard place"?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Bigpumpkin wrote:
bestfightstory wrote:
I will say this: I definitely don't want to see Harvin in a Niners jersey next year.


Sooo...do i hear you saying that Pete and John are "between a rock and a hard place"?



No. Not necessarily. If they don't want him all things considered, then I'm sure they've made the right decision for their vision of this team.

I just think Harvin is a talent I don't want to face twice a year. Whether he is with the Niners or the Rams.

And that isn't to say I am afraid of the guy-I just think he drastically improves any offense in the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Another thing to consider is that it does not take multiple years to develop youth in today's NFL. Rookies can come in and make an impact right away depending on the willingness of the coaching staff to devote resources to them. For each developmental prospects that is really raw there is another guy who has had four years of excellent modern college coaching and is as fast and strong as he will ever be.

Fans in this discussion seem to have been influenced too much by Tate's slow development and not nearly enough by all of our other rookies who have made instant impacts. Why is Tate more influential than Baldwin, who became one of our best two receivers was one of our best two receivers as an undrafted rookie?

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I just think Harvin is a talent I don't want to face twice a year. Whether he is with the Niners or the Rams.

Best case scenario is the 49ers paying him $12 million per year and then him missing our games with migraines, or throwing tantrums when he doesn't get the ball enough. He is very talented but there are lots of skilled but expensive FAs who have not produced up to the level of their contract, and whoever trades for Harvin will be paying him FA money.

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Last edited by AgentDib on Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:50 pm 
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bestfightstory wrote:
Bigpumpkin wrote:
bestfightstory wrote:
I will say this: I definitely don't want to see Harvin in a Niners jersey next year.


Sooo...do i hear you saying that Pete and John are "between a rock and a hard place"?



No. Not necessarily. If they don't want him all things considered, then I'm sure they've made the right decision for their vision of this team.

I just think Harvin is a talent I don't want to face twice a year. Whether he is with the Niners or the Rams.

And that isn't to say I am afraid of the guy-I just think he drastically improves any offense in the NFL.



Sooo....I guess that we fans must wait until March 12th to learn of our fate?


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:37 pm 
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misfit wrote:
Harvin is a #1.

Seattle has not had a true #1 WR since Steve Largent.

If Steve Largent was in his mid 20's and playing for us right now, there would be a lot of people arguing he's not a #1 receiver.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:19 am 
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You all who don't want Harvin really need to listen to BestFightStory. He knows more about the Vikings than he knows about the Seahawks, and he knows more about the Seahawks than the rest of you combined.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:39 am 
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Good Article by La Canfora at CBS
"...I understand the injury concerns. I understand some of the issues of attitude and clashing with coaches. But I have talked to enough of his teammates to understand some of Harvin's frustrations with the lack of a full-bodied offensive attack with the Vikings, and to a man his teammates say he is driven to win. He can be immature and he's made some mistakes, but no one this talented hits the trade market this young unless there have been a few bumps in the road.

I'd take my chances with him.

In terms of yards after the catch, his numbers last season were nearly identical to those of Darren Sproles, again, without being a part of an offense nearly as balanced as the New Orleans', and without Drew Brees getting him the football. All he's done is average a ridiculous 6.4 yards per carry in his career. He has five career return touchdowns. His average of 74 scrimmage yards per game -- from 2009 to 2012 -- puts him right with receivers like DeSean Jackson and Vincent Jackson, and among all players with at least 50 rushes and 100 receptions since 2009, Harvin's average of 10.3 scrimmage yards per touch is far and away tops in the NFL..."

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:51 am 
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Not for 10 million a year. This is salary cap football. Not fantasy football (Credit to John Clayton).

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:15 am 
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Basis4day wrote:
Not for 10 million a year. This is salary cap football. Not fantasy football (Credit to John Clayton).


If you are able to consider that he is only due 2.6 this year then a 3 year extension at 10 MM per year isn't too bad- Save cap space next year and roll it over so that the 10 MM doesn't hurt so much. 32.6/4 is 8 MM per year. You can get creative with the cap so that we can cut/trade him in the final year if he's not producing (or can't afford him), then it's more like 7 MM per year.

Harvin is a guy I wouldn't worry about the money. I'd cut a guy like Rice in a heartbeat in two years if it came down to picking a 25 year old blue chip prospect vs a 30 year old WR...problem solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:21 am 
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lukerguy wrote:
Basis4day wrote:
Not for 10 million a year. This is salary cap football. Not fantasy football (Credit to John Clayton).


If you are able to consider that he is only due 2.6 this year then a 3 year extension at 10 MM per year isn't too bad- Save cap space next year and roll it over so that the 10 MM doesn't hurt so much. 32.6/4 is 8 MM per year. You can get creative with the cap so that we can cut/trade him in the final year if he's not producing (or can't afford him), then it's more like 7 MM per year.

Harvin is a guy I wouldn't worry about the money. I'd cut a guy like Rice in a heartbeat in two years if it came down to picking a 25 year old blue chip prospect vs a 30 year old WR...problem solved.


Rice is two years older than Harvin.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:24 am 
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If we don't get Percy then hopefully he doesn't end up with any other NFC west team.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:29 am 
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I know I've said before that I don't think Harvin comes to Seattle BUT if PC and Bevell are going All In the next few years then they might pull the trigger.

Vikings 2009: Bevell's offense=>Brett Favre, Rice, Harvin and Peterson.
Seattle 2013: Bevell's offense=>Russ Wilson, Rice, Harvin and Lynch? +better depth and better defense.

Durability-wise Harvin missed only a handfull of games prior to being placed on IR the last half of this year.
If he acts up, Harvin still retains good trade value in the next several years because of his talent, versatility and youth.

All In? We'll find out in March....


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:35 am 
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Wary of paying number 1 money to a guy that's never had a 1000 yard season.

Last guy we did that for?

Deion Branch


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:02 am 
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I'm wary of paying BIG money for a backup QB whose only job is to call a coin toss but some folks seem okay with that too.

Harvin's proven to get nearly 700 yards receiving in half-season while also rushing from scrimmage and having returning duties.
Harvin has proven to be a quality #1 receiver in Minny for the last several years even with incompetent QB play. He HAS EARNED IT.
If 1000 yards receiving happens then that's great given RW's propensity to spread the ball. We need scores and over-the-top talent if we wanna do this right.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:32 am 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
I'm wary of paying BIG money for a backup QB whose only job is to call a coin toss but some folks seem okay with that too.


We paid Matt Flynn what the market dictated. We hadn't yet drafted Russell Wilson. Don't forget that. Wilson will only make around 500,000 next year so our total money invested in Quarterbacks will be about 6 millions dollars next year. That is NOT big money in the QB position, and that's assuming we even keep Flynn.

I'd rather be smart with our money like the Packers or Patriots than throw up a prayer in FA like the Jets and Eagles.

I'd be happy as anyone if we brought in a Harvin, Bowe or Wallace because PC/JS know a hell of a lot more than any of us. But you need to be smart about the cap. You want to go all in for a Super Bowl next year, fine. But if you can't guarentee me a Superbowl with one of these WR additions i'm going to prefer Salary Cap Football to Fantasy Football.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:44 am 
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Basis4day wrote:
We paid Matt Flynn what the market dictated. We hadn't yet drafted Russell Wilson. Don't forget that. Wilson will only make around 500,000 next year so our total money invested in Quarterbacks will be about 6 millions dollars next year. That is NOT big money in the QB position, and that's assuming we even keep Flynn.


LOL.. You mean we have nearly 6 MILLION tied up in our backup QB for next year. Those two QBs aren't Siamese twins and are NOT package deals. Sheesh. Gimme a gamechanger for $6-10 mil any day rather than a $6 mil player sitting on the pine. I hate to have you run my buzness fella.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:54 am 
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And you say you'd rather be smart like the Pack and Patriots. News for you-->Patriots are probably front runners on the Harvin trade deal. For some reason many teams including the Pats think that Harvin is worth the big bucks. Good luck trying to pawn off Flynn's contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
Basis4day wrote:
We paid Matt Flynn what the market dictated. We hadn't yet drafted Russell Wilson. Don't forget that. Wilson will only make around 500,000 next year so our total money invested in Quarterbacks will be about 6 millions dollars next year. That is NOT big money in the QB position, and that's assuming we even keep Flynn.


LOL.. You mean we have nearly 6 MILLION tied up in our backup QB for next year. Those two QBs aren't Siamese twins and are NOT package deals. Sheesh. Gimme a gamechanger for $6-10 mil any day rather than a $6 mil player sitting on the pine. I hate to have you run my buzness fella.


Which is why he likely won't be here next year. Again, we signed Flynn BEFORE we drafted Wilson. That's why his contract is where it is. What were we supposed to do last season, cut Flynn and eat his salary which would still count against the cap? Smart "business" plan.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
And you say you'd rather be smart like the Pack and Patriots. News for you-->Patriots are probably front runners on the Harvin trade deal. For some reason many teams including the Pats think that Harvin is worth the big bucks. Good luck trying to pawn off Flynn's contract.


Flynn's contract is rather reasonable starter money and he likely won't be back next year.

Re: The Pats. They are letting Welker walk. He made $9.515 in 2012. They can go after Harvin because that's the around the same amount that Welker would be making, and the same position on the field. Again, it's called smart cap management.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Yea. No need for history lessons I understand how we got to this point with RW and Flynn. I've been following RW and Flynn for more than just the past season. I bring up Flynn because he has a big contract and big following for a relatively unproven guy. His his contract was more than twice that of Harvin's who's a contributor in almost every way on Minnesota's offense AND special teams.
And I agree that our situation with Flynn will be resolved this off season as he may be traded for a late round pick or be cut/restructure his deal. Heck even Minnesota isn't showing interest in trading for Flynn--they probably think Ponder is a better talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:14 pm 
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In theory, and assuming the VERY best case scenario, it would be great for the Hawks to trade for Percy Harvin and add him to our offensive arsenal.

In reality, the very best case scenario rarely happens, especially for high-priced FA WRs hat switch teams... they just don't produce to the same level on their new teams as they did on their old teams.

My vote is "Pass".

Let's not ruin a good thing (Rice, Tate and Baldwin) for a potential great thing that never comes to pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Quote:
Vikings will not make Ponder compete for job
Vikings coach Leslie Frazier told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that Christian Ponder will not face competition for his starting job in 2013 camp.
Mortensen recently spoke to Frazier, who said Ponder is locked in for 2013. "Leslie Frazier said, 'Go look at his games in December,'" Mort relayed. "There were a couple of games in December where they saw the Christian Ponder they drafted. ... They really believe Ponder will continue to get better. He is the starter going into the season. They expect nothing to change that. No competition." The Vikings will try to upgrade on backup Joe Webb, but it now seems doubtful that they'd seriously pursue Matt Moore, who is free agency's top quarterback.



There goes the whole Flynn+ for Harvin thought..

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:33 pm 
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The Vikings organization is a debacle, has been for a while. Coddling Ponder is a terrible mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Harvin wants too much money.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:06 pm 
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I've come around on this. Was concerned about the cap implications and the ability to sign current core of young players, but I am not going to sweat it. If signing him impacts retaining one of the young guys, the FO didn't plan properly and that would be their fatal flaw. Miller and Rice, with the contracts they have currently look to be cuts or contract modifications in the next few years whether Harvin signed here or not. Same with Red and/or Mebane. However, the talent Harvin has cannot be denied.

I wouldn't want to see a Branch-like deal and it sounds like the Vikings may only get a 2nd or 3rd, if you trust LaConfora's latest post.

Personally don't like players who have sideline tantrums but not going to get bent about it. Signing him does put Leon at risk, but he is at risk anyway. I could see a Baldwin or Tate moving on. Baldwin is like a Steve Breaston-type from the Fitz/Boldin/Breaston days. He has some good intangibles but more talent at the position can only make the offense that much more lethal.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Dude wants Megatron/Fitz type money...hahahah. No thanks!

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/255571/report-harvin-wants-megatronfitz-money


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:17 pm 
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BirdsCommaAngry wrote:
Harvin wants too much money.


This.

Rumor has it he's asking for something similar to what Megatron has. Happy hunting, Percy.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:15 pm 
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It would be great if we could afford him, but bottom line is we can't.

Too bad they're so sold on their shitty quarterback... Flynn's about as good a trade piece we could ask for.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:19 pm 
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hawker232 wrote:
It would be great if we could afford him, but bottom line is we can't.

Based on what? Our cap situation is fine and none of our core players have contracts that expire in the next few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:37 pm 
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the idiot wants Megatron money. He's delusional if he thinks he's worth that. Hell no. no no no. pass


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:47 pm 
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The Seahawks are missing a "X" receiver. A split-end type of receiver. Harvin is not that. Harvin is a slot type just like Tate and Baldwin are. So is Tavon Austin in draft (so I don't see them going after him at all). There are too many slot type of receivers on the team already. If they get Harvin then Tate or Baldwin (maybe both) would need to go. They become expendable. So trading for Harvin makes little sense. He's great but not at the price and they already have Tate and Baldwin. While not as great as Harvin, they are still good and progressing plus considerably cheaper.


Last edited by hawkfan68 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:48 pm 
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He may "want" Megatron money, but he isn't going to get it...not even close.

Dude needs to look at his injury history and adjust his reality. He doesn't miss a lot of games on the whole, but he is always coming up gimpy.

Obviously we would all love to have him, but in reality I think we need a bigger/faster coverage buster more so than a Harvin type. He is similar to Tate (not saying Tate is the same as Harvin, so all you vultures calm down).

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:53 pm 
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YES he wants Magatron money, do you expect him to say, ".Net thinks I am like Baldwin, so give me Baldwin type cash"

Start high and meet in the middle, any other move would make him look stupid.

We have no clue what the market will pony up for a superstar WR who has issues in 2013, but it will be fun to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:00 pm 
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You can't possibly get megatron money as you're being traded. Doesn't make sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:25 pm 
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I understand he won't get megatron money, but how will that affect him? He feels he deserves that type of money. There's already rumors he may hold out and he's been having locker room issues in Minne. Sure we can trade for him and it won't cost much now but, I think it will only be a rental. Why trade for that and lose a high pick in the meantime? I don't think one guy is going to put this team over the top, and if so, it won't be Harvin.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:39 pm 
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We have been hard on this receiving group, my perspective is we finally have a QB, we are just beginning to see a relationship begin to develop with them. Baldwin and Tate are just beginning to learn the Pro game and producing, they will get better still once they can learn to play Wilson ball and where to be on his roll outs and coming back. Rice is playing healthy for the first time in a few years and will only keep showing us his capabilities as that relationship gets better. As this group Gells and can react instinctively we will see a very solid group that will make coverage of them a nightmare with Miller underneath and running seams.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:38 am 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
I'm wary of paying BIG money for a backup QB whose only job is to call a coin toss but some folks seem okay with that too.

Harvin's proven to get nearly 700 yards receiving in half-season while also rushing from scrimmage and having returning duties.
Harvin has proven to be a quality #1 receiver in Minny for the last several years even with incompetent QB play. He HAS EARNED IT.
If 1000 yards receiving happens then that's great given RW's propensity to spread the ball. We need scores and over-the-top talent if we wanna do this right.


So that's what we're reduced to, targetting big money FAs that have proven they're "good" over half a season?

"Nearly" 700 yards in 9 games when he's the only receiver on the team better than awful is not particularly impressive - he made 62 catchs compared to Sidney Rice's 50 and ended up with less yards. Hardly an indication of a terrific "YAC guy"


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:23 am 
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themunn wrote:
Russ Willstrong wrote:
"Nearly" 700 yards in 9 games when he's the only receiver on the team better than awful is not particularly impressive - he made 62 catchs compared to Sidney Rice's 50 and ended up with less yards. Hardly an indication of a terrific "YAC guy"


^^^ wrong ^^^

Now if you want to say he's too expensive, that would be understandable.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:11 am 
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Harvin is one of the best recievers in the League period... is he worth Megatron money? maybe not, but he's up there.. injuries is my only concern with this guy.. as far as ability , not too many guys in this league are in his class.... not sure he would be a good fit here, but he would be a upgrade to any recieving core.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:14 am 
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I wonder if some of you will admit Tate cand hold a candle to Harvin when he's tearing up the NFL as a 9er. :49ersmall:


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:21 am 
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I've thought about this for a while before deciding to throw my opinion into the fray. At the end of the day, I just don't see it. Yes, Percy Harvin is one of the best receivers in the league and one of the most electrifying players in the league, period. There's no denying that. However, am I willing to sink a 2nd round pick and mass amounts of dollar dollar bills y'all at him? NO. Here's why... (half joking, but still pretty serious)

1) His "rap sheet" goes way beyond his time in Minnesota. Dating back to his days at Florida, he's the type of entitled star athlete that I absolutely can not stand. From trying to Sprewell/Carlesimo one of his coaches, to throwing a weight at Brad Childress. The man is a loose cannon. I'm not sure whether you can trust a guy like that on a Super Bowl caliber team? His whole career screams Andre Rison. I wonder what female celebrity will slash his tires and torch his house?

2) I don't like the message it sends to the rest of the team. You bring in this whiny little bitch and pay him a ton of money while other guys who have done more for the shirt are making peanuts. Not a fan of that.

3) It's much more fun to destroy the will of a man like Percy Harvin and watch him whine on the sidelines than to actually have him on your team. That act would get tired REAL QUICK.

4) I'm sure Pete Carroll would set him straight, but why mess with a good thing chemistry wise?

5) If John Schneider can find our franchise quarterback, lord and savior, in the 3rd round than why can't we just find our own Percy Harvin? The Packers drafted a reasonable facsimile in Randall Cobb and it only took them a 2nd rounder. I'm content with keeping the focus on the defense, shoring up the defensive line and LB spots that need shoring up, and especially the pass rush while also supplementing the offense with a shiny new toy somewhere along the way. I get that Harvin, in essence, would be costing us that same 2nd rounder that the Packers were able to snag Cobb with, but Cobb comes free of headaches (pun intended) and baggage. I'd much rather go that route.

Of course, as I told JonRud, if the Hawks did trade for Harvin and could sign him to a reasonable deal I'd be elated. Who am I kidding. He's a rare talent. However, if it were up to me (and aren't you all glad it's not), I'd stay away from Percy.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:26 am 
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I can always get down with rational arguments from 'the other side' and NYCoug just laid it down. Well done. Can't argue with that logic, if that's your viewpoint/philosophy. There are always 'ifs' to both sides of any argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:03 am 
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I know that Harvin is extremely gifted but if we do sign a FA, I want it to be DL for pass rush and then draft a WR/LB/OL.


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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:38 am 
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NYCoug wrote:
I've thought about this for a while before deciding to throw my opinion into the fray. At the end of the day, I just don't see it. Yes, Percy Harvin is one of the best receivers in the league and one of the most electrifying players in the league, period. There's no denying that. However, am I willing to sink a 2nd round pick and mass amounts of dollar dollar bills y'all at him? NO. Here's why... (half joking, but still pretty serious)

1) His "rap sheet" goes way beyond his time in Minnesota. Dating back to his days at Florida, he's the type of entitled star athlete that I absolutely can not stand. From trying to Sprewell/Carlesimo one of his coaches, to throwing a weight at Brad Childress. The man is a loose cannon. I'm not sure whether you can trust a guy like that on a Super Bowl caliber team? His whole career screams Andre Rison. I wonder what female celebrity will slash his tires and torch his house?

2) I don't like the message it sends to the rest of the team. You bring in this whiny little bitch and pay him a ton of money while other guys who have done more for the shirt are making peanuts. Not a fan of that.

3) It's much more fun to destroy the will of a man like Percy Harvin and watch him whine on the sidelines than to actually have him on your team. That act would get tired REAL QUICK.

4) I'm sure Pete Carroll would set him straight, but why mess with a good thing chemistry wise?

5) If John Schneider can find our franchise quarterback, lord and savior, in the 3rd round than why can't we just find our own Percy Harvin? The Packers drafted a reasonable facsimile in Randall Cobb and it only took them a 2nd rounder. I'm content with keeping the focus on the defense, shoring up the defensive line and LB spots that need shoring up, and especially the pass rush while also supplementing the offense with a shiny new toy somewhere along the way. I get that Harvin, in essence, would be costing us that same 2nd rounder that the Packers were able to snag Cobb with, but Cobb comes free of headaches (pun intended) and baggage. I'd much rather go that route.

Of course, as I told JonRud, if the Hawks did trade for Harvin and could sign him to a reasonable deal I'd be elated. Who am I kidding. He's a rare talent. However, if it were up to me (and aren't you all glad it's not), I'd stay away from Percy.


While I'm on the pro-Harvin side, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

1) It is what it is...and you're right. You don't want any character issues. One redeeming quality of Percy is that he is a 'fierce competitor'. I've heard from multiple sources that this is the root of most of his 'rap sheet'. He doesn't have a blatant disregard for authority.

2) Asking for money doesn't make you a "whiny little bitch". 80% of the stars in this league make a stance like this at one point in their career. Is Clem a "whiny little bitch"? He held out...Percy has never held out.

3) I'll skip this one because it's not exactly an argument.

4) I will never be concerned with Chemistry as long as PC is our head coach. He has an uncanny ability to bring people together for a common purpose of competing. Percy hasn't messed with any chemistry in Minnesota. Ask all of the players what they want, they want him to stay and they have been vocal about it.

5) You aren't going to find a person of Harvin's God-Given abilities in the 3rd round. I would venture to say that you could grab Austin in the 1st round and he may compare long term, but even Randall Cobb is not Percy Harvin. Harvin is one of a kind..he really is that gifted.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:46 am 
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lukerguy wrote:
NYCoug wrote:
I've thought about this for a while before deciding to throw my opinion into the fray. At the end of the day, I just don't see it. Yes, Percy Harvin is one of the best receivers in the league and one of the most electrifying players in the league, period. There's no denying that. However, am I willing to sink a 2nd round pick and mass amounts of dollar dollar bills y'all at him? NO. Here's why... (half joking, but still pretty serious)

1) His "rap sheet" goes way beyond his time in Minnesota. Dating back to his days at Florida, he's the type of entitled star athlete that I absolutely can not stand. From trying to Sprewell/Carlesimo one of his coaches, to throwing a weight at Brad Childress. The man is a loose cannon. I'm not sure whether you can trust a guy like that on a Super Bowl caliber team? His whole career screams Andre Rison. I wonder what female celebrity will slash his tires and torch his house?

2) I don't like the message it sends to the rest of the team. You bring in this whiny little bitch and pay him a ton of money while other guys who have done more for the shirt are making peanuts. Not a fan of that.

3) It's much more fun to destroy the will of a man like Percy Harvin and watch him whine on the sidelines than to actually have him on your team. That act would get tired REAL QUICK.

4) I'm sure Pete Carroll would set him straight, but why mess with a good thing chemistry wise?

5) If John Schneider can find our franchise quarterback, lord and savior, in the 3rd round than why can't we just find our own Percy Harvin? The Packers drafted a reasonable facsimile in Randall Cobb and it only took them a 2nd rounder. I'm content with keeping the focus on the defense, shoring up the defensive line and LB spots that need shoring up, and especially the pass rush while also supplementing the offense with a shiny new toy somewhere along the way. I get that Harvin, in essence, would be costing us that same 2nd rounder that the Packers were able to snag Cobb with, but Cobb comes free of headaches (pun intended) and baggage. I'd much rather go that route.

Of course, as I told JonRud, if the Hawks did trade for Harvin and could sign him to a reasonable deal I'd be elated. Who am I kidding. He's a rare talent. However, if it were up to me (and aren't you all glad it's not), I'd stay away from Percy.


While I'm on the pro-Harvin side, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

1) It is what it is...and you're right. You don't want any character issues. One redeeming quality of Percy is that he is a 'fierce competitor'. I've heard from multiple sources that this is the root of most of his 'rap sheet'. He doesn't have a blatant disregard for authority.

2) Asking for money doesn't make you a "whiny little bitch". 80% of the stars in this league make a stance like this at one point in their career. Is Clem a "whiny little bitch"? He held out...Percy has never held out.

3) I'll skip this one because it's not exactly an argument.

4) I will never be concerned with Chemistry as long as PC is our head coach. He has an uncanny ability to bring people together for a common purpose of competing. Percy hasn't messed with any chemistry in Minnesota. Ask all of the players what they want, they want him to stay and they have been vocal about it.

5) You aren't going to find a person of Harvin's God-Given abilities in the 3rd round. I would venture to say that you could grab Austin in the 1st round and he may compare long term, but even Randall Cobb is not Percy Harvin. Harvin is one of a kind..he really is that gifted.


I don't think he's a whiny little bitch for asking for money. I think he's a whiny little bitch for the tantrum he threw on the sidelines this year vs. the Hawks and for walking out on his team at the end of the season even though they were in the playoff hunt, and eventually made it in without him.

Also, normally you'd say that can't find someone of Russell Wilson's abilities in the 3rd round, but it happens. Richard Sherman in the 5th round? He's arguably the best player at his position and he was had in the 5th round. Harvin's not the best player at his position so I'm willing to venture that they could do the same work and find the next Harvin. It's possible to find amazing natural talent later in the draft, there are so many examples.

Let me throw an example at you. I work at a bar, obviously extremely different from being an NFL receiver. If I were to try and choke out my boss because I disagreed with them, I'd be fired and would have a hard time finding another job. I wouldn't get labeled a "fiery worker" like it's some sort of good thing. Sprewell didn't get labeled a fiery competitor. I don't get how people can try and explain that away. How is that NOT blatant disregard for authority? Normally, I'd say who really cares about "authority" but there's human decency and something like that lacks in human decency.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:09 am 
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NYCoug wrote:
lukerguy wrote:
NYCoug wrote:
I've thought about this for a while before deciding to throw my opinion into the fray. At the end of the day, I just don't see it. Yes, Percy Harvin is one of the best receivers in the league and one of the most electrifying players in the league, period. There's no denying that. However, am I willing to sink a 2nd round pick and mass amounts of dollar dollar bills y'all at him? NO. Here's why... (half joking, but still pretty serious)

1) His "rap sheet" goes way beyond his time in Minnesota. Dating back to his days at Florida, he's the type of entitled star athlete that I absolutely can not stand. From trying to Sprewell/Carlesimo one of his coaches, to throwing a weight at Brad Childress. The man is a loose cannon. I'm not sure whether you can trust a guy like that on a Super Bowl caliber team? His whole career screams Andre Rison. I wonder what female celebrity will slash his tires and torch his house?

2) I don't like the message it sends to the rest of the team. You bring in this whiny little bitch and pay him a ton of money while other guys who have done more for the shirt are making peanuts. Not a fan of that.

3) It's much more fun to destroy the will of a man like Percy Harvin and watch him whine on the sidelines than to actually have him on your team. That act would get tired REAL QUICK.

4) I'm sure Pete Carroll would set him straight, but why mess with a good thing chemistry wise?

5) If John Schneider can find our franchise quarterback, lord and savior, in the 3rd round than why can't we just find our own Percy Harvin? The Packers drafted a reasonable facsimile in Randall Cobb and it only took them a 2nd rounder. I'm content with keeping the focus on the defense, shoring up the defensive line and LB spots that need shoring up, and especially the pass rush while also supplementing the offense with a shiny new toy somewhere along the way. I get that Harvin, in essence, would be costing us that same 2nd rounder that the Packers were able to snag Cobb with, but Cobb comes free of headaches (pun intended) and baggage. I'd much rather go that route.

Of course, as I told JonRud, if the Hawks did trade for Harvin and could sign him to a reasonable deal I'd be elated. Who am I kidding. He's a rare talent. However, if it were up to me (and aren't you all glad it's not), I'd stay away from Percy.


While I'm on the pro-Harvin side, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

1) It is what it is...and you're right. You don't want any character issues. One redeeming quality of Percy is that he is a 'fierce competitor'. I've heard from multiple sources that this is the root of most of his 'rap sheet'. He doesn't have a blatant disregard for authority.

2) Asking for money doesn't make you a "whiny little bitch". 80% of the stars in this league make a stance like this at one point in their career. Is Clem a "whiny little bitch"? He held out...Percy has never held out.

3) I'll skip this one because it's not exactly an argument.

4) I will never be concerned with Chemistry as long as PC is our head coach. He has an uncanny ability to bring people together for a common purpose of competing. Percy hasn't messed with any chemistry in Minnesota. Ask all of the players what they want, they want him to stay and they have been vocal about it.

5) You aren't going to find a person of Harvin's God-Given abilities in the 3rd round. I would venture to say that you could grab Austin in the 1st round and he may compare long term, but even Randall Cobb is not Percy Harvin. Harvin is one of a kind..he really is that gifted.


I don't think he's a whiny little bitch for asking for money. I think he's a whiny little bitch for the tantrum he threw on the sidelines this year vs. the Hawks and for walking out on his team at the end of the season even though they were in the playoff hunt, and eventually made it in without him.

Also, normally you'd say that can't find someone of Russell Wilson's abilities in the 3rd round, but it happens. Richard Sherman in the 5th round? He's arguably the best player at his position and he was had in the 5th round. Harvin's not the best player at his position so I'm willing to venture that they could do the same work and find the next Harvin. It's possible to find amazing natural talent later in the draft, there are so many examples.

Let me throw an example at you. I work at a bar, obviously extremely different from being an NFL receiver. If I were to try and choke out my boss because I disagreed with them, I'd be fired and would have a hard time finding another job. I wouldn't get labeled a "fiery worker" like it's some sort of good thing. Sprewell didn't get labeled a fiery competitor. I don't get how people can try and explain that away. How is that NOT blatant disregard for authority? Normally, I'd say who really cares about "authority" but there's human decency and something like that lacks in human decency.



There are ways around that though. You act like Carroll doesn't have any balls to discipline players. I would venture to say that this would never come up, but if it did you can bet Carroll would not hesitate to suspend or discipline Harvin. There's no way Carroll would lose his players by being too soft.

The incident with Harvin and WR's coach at UF was never confirmed but only reported. Meyer said the report was overblown but it was an incident. If it did indeed happen, then shame on Meyer for setting a terrible precedent in the young player's career. Any respectable coach would have suspended a player multiple games if that was the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:13 am 
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Well, word on the street is that that's the kind of program Urban Meyer runs but we'll never know so let's not speculate.

And Pete has balls alright, big balls, I don't doubt that he'd discipline a player in a heartbeat. He's cold blooded. Having said that, why invite that kind of distraction in the first place? Look at the elite passing games around the leauge, most don't have that true #1 superstar receiver. I don't think we really need one either, especially one with Percy's track record.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:34 am 
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The problem with the pro "let's go after Harvin" camp on this forum is they can't assure us that signing Harvin won't impede on signing more important players in a year or two or more important D-Line free agents this off season.

So if signing Harvin means we won't be able to keep the Legion of Boom together in 2014 or 2015, then my answer is no. If Pete and John can make it work with dumping Flynn and Washington's salary and maybe trading Tate because he now becomes expendable with Harvin in the slot?...................AND we don't have to give up too many draft picks? Then yes, I'm down with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:40 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
The problem with the pro "let's go after Harvin" camp on this forum is they can't assure us that signing Harvin won't impede on signing more important players in a year or two or more important D-Line free agents this off season.

So if signing Harvin means we won't be able to keep the Legion of Boom together in 2014 or 2015, then my answer is no. If Pete and John can make it work with dumping Flynn and Washington's salary and maybe trading Tate because he now becomes expendable with Harvin in the slot?...................AND we don't have to give up too many draft picks? Then yes, I'm down with this.


Perhaps, but look at our top contracts...Rice and Miller. It may simply mean Harvin vs. Miller or Harvin vs. Rice rather than Harvin vs. Chancellor, Thomas, Sherm...ect

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 Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin's Availaibility
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:48 am 
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lukerguy wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
The problem with the pro "let's go after Harvin" camp on this forum is they can't assure us that signing Harvin won't impede on signing more important players in a year or two or more important D-Line free agents this off season.

So if signing Harvin means we won't be able to keep the Legion of Boom together in 2014 or 2015, then my answer is no. If Pete and John can make it work with dumping Flynn and Washington's salary and maybe trading Tate because he now becomes expendable with Harvin in the slot?...................AND we don't have to give up too many draft picks? Then yes, I'm down with this.


Perhaps, but look at our top contracts...Rice and Miller. It may simply mean Harvin vs. Miller or Harvin vs. Rice rather than Harvin vs. Chancellor, Thomas, Sherm...ect


Maybe, but then you're adding by subtraction. Sure you'd be strengthening the slot receiver/return game........but now you're greatly weakening the other WR slot, or TE slot. Neither of which we can afford to get weaker at.

Harvin's a great talent, I just don't think he fits with what Pete and John are trying to do............which is rely heavily on developing their own guys through the draft that fit a particular skill set for a particular position. Add in the fact that we'd have almost 20 million tied up in two WR's with Rice's contract, and that's WAY too much for a team that runs the ball 50-60% of the time.

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