FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped

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FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:59 pm
  • I just saw he got an involuntary imprisonment charge. That's a charge which gets dropped, 99.999% of the time. It's what cops pass out, knowing full well it cant be prosecuted. I've never received one in a DV setting, but I know from prosecutors what it means in laymans.

    For example.

    If you get in a fight with a dude, the police decide it was "fair" but HAVE TO arrest someone, to cover their asses, this is a charge they'd pass to one party. If you kicked a phone out of his hand, or kept him from calling bouncers, voila, "II" charge.

    Change your mind? Kinda does mine. My guess is they got called, both we're arguing, and they seperated them with a trumped arrest and a charge that wont stick.
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  • Interesting. Thanks for the info. Glad we have somebody with your level of expertise around here.
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  • Zebulon Dak wrote:expertise


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  • pehawk wrote:I just saw he got an involuntary imprisonment charge. That's a charge which gets dropped, 99.999% of the time. It's what cops pass out, knowing full well it cant be prosecuted. I've never received one in a DV setting, but I know from prosecutors what it means in laymans.

    For example.

    If you get in a fight with a dude, the police decide it was "fair" but HAVE TO arrest someone, to cover their asses, this is a charge they'd pass to one party. If you kicked a phone out of his hand, or kept him from calling bouncers, voila, "II" charge.

    Change your mind? Kinda does mine. My guess is they got called, both we're arguing, and they seperated them with a trumped arrest and a charge that wont stick.


    If you're asking whether or not that changes my mind on whether or not the Hawks should keep him ... absolutely positively not. First of all, skill-wise from what I'm seeing his have deteriorated to the point that he's become a real liability to the overall defense. I would contend that he's a big reason for the for why teams were able to find increasing success in those short to middle zones ... and also why the run defense steadily deteriorated as the season wore on.

    Not only he is too old ... but I'm sorry, there has just been way too much smoke surrounding this guy ever since he first donned a Seahawk uniform. He's just had far too many incidences/brushes with the law. I'm thinking that they'd already made up their minds not to bring him back next year ... and this latest incident just put that final nail in the coffin.
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  • Maybe he stood in front of the door, blocking her path? Unplugged phone? I'm not sure how'd it work in the home.

    But, all you have to do is block someone from going where they'd prefer to go, and that's the charge. Some lil worm running to get the bouncers, you impede? There ya go, you got a charge that'd make Notorious BIG proud.
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  • pehawk wrote:Maybe he stood in front of the door, blocking her path? Unplugged phone? I'm not sure how'd it work in the home.

    But, all you have to do is block someone from going where they'd prefer to go, and that's the charge. Some lil worm running to get the bouncers, you impede? There ya go, you got a charge that'd make Notorious BIG proud.


    Pehawk, as far as his future with the Seahawks is concerned, I'd say that this incident is completely irrelevant in that decision process. Regardless of whether he's guilty or not here ... or even if he had kept his nose totally clean this offseason, he wasn't going to be back. He was already gone.
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  • I respect and for the most part agree with your assesment scanner.

    Just think its only fair to get this side out as well.
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  • Well I'm thinking Smitty has taken his job at this point, but I would think hope this type of info would make the moral condemners hold off on their judgement, at least for a little while.
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  • He was a weakness on our defense so I don't see him being back anyways.
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  • I figured he'd be back and given the opportunity to compete with whatever rookie is drafted to replace him.

    This even DOES change my mind.

    I believe that Malcolm Smith is a liability on run defense and since that is the biggest weakness on our defense (at least it was at the end of the year) I do not believe he is the answer.

    I would not be surprised if we look to free agency (in addition to the draft) to replace Hill. Perhaps Wheeler or Henderson.
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  • Its Unlawful Imprisonment, not Involuntary. (Unless he was charged with a city ordinance code or something). And yeah, it can range from actually wrapping someone to a chair with duct tape to grabbing her arm because they were arguing and he didn't want her to leave. Lots of ways to apply it

    9A.40.040
    Unlawful imprisonment.

    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful imprisonment if he or she knowingly restrains another person.

    (2) Unlawful imprisonment is a class C felony.
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  • Wonder if Leroy might work out at Clem's position where he doesn't have to worry about covering anybody....and can just attack the QB as he has been a good pass rusher in the past....i'd like to see him stay especially if the charges get dropped!
    Last edited by purpleworld on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Youre right, Les. It is unlawful. My take on it remains the same, at least from what ive seen, its a throw-away charge.
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  • pehawk wrote:Youre right, Les. It is unlawful. My take on it remains the same, at least from what ive seen, its a throw-away charge.


    It's a weird one, Anthony. In some cases it will land you on the state's Registered Sex/kidnapping offender list, and other times its dropped to mal misch or completely pending probation.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Youre right, Les. It is unlawful. My take on it remains the same, at least from what ive seen, its a throw-away charge.


    It's a weird one, Anthony.


    :lol:
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  • At least he didn't drag he her down the stairs by her hair this time.
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  • Ive never seen it not dropped. Always struck me as a charge a cop gave because brutality's frowned upon.

    Anthony? My name's Ryan, Les.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:He was a weakness on our defense so I don't see him being back anyways.


    I agree...a moot point regarding his guilt. IMO...there is a 99.9% chance that he will not be in Training Camp this summer.
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  • It's a bit disconcerting how much some of our posters know about laws relating to kidnapping and imprisoning other people. ;)
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:43 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Ive never seen it not dropped. Always struck me as a charge a cop gave because brutality's frowned upon.

    Anthony? My name's Ryan, Les.

    That's too bad. I thought that your name was Anthony as well. You sure?
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:44 pm
  • Either way, he's played his last down as a Seattle Seahawk. Book that.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:11 pm
  • This is from an article on Huff:

    "According to a release from the Issaquah Police Department on Wednesday morning, Hill was arrested on investigation of unlawful imprisonment-domestic violence and third-degree assault-domestic violence. According to King County Jail records, Hill was booked into the Seattle correctional facility early Wednesday afternoon.

    Both charges are felonies in Washington state. It's at least the fourth time Hill, 30, has been arrested and the second time he's been accused of domestic violence.

    Police said they responded to Hill's home around 4 p.m. Tuesday. A 26-year-old said she had been assaulted several times and was kept in Hill's home against her will. The women told police that Hill blocked the doorway and took her cellphone. She was able to escape the home when Hill used the bathroom, police said.

    She was treated at a hospital and released. A Seahawks spokesman said the team is aware of the situation."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/leroy-hill-arrested-assault-charges-seahawks_n_2585186.html?utm_hp_ref=sports
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:39 pm
  • I wonder what she did or said to him to piss him off.
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  • for some reason i see leroy hill as tyrese gibson in baby boy
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  • Welp...bye
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  • Zebulon Dak wrote:I wonder what she did or said to him to piss him off.


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  • Maybe she said, "I want to be with a man with a job. You gonna be an unemployed BUM. I'm goin to KJ's place. Later, loser!!"

    Sounds like some lawyers will be making some money. That's what the DV system is primarily about, is creating busine$$ for the courts, attorneys, jails, and DV "training" industry. Protecting anyone, female or male, is secondary. False or trumped-up DV allegations create the same amount of business and money for the system participant$ as a serious violent incident. It's basically a family court scenario, you know, that place where the phrase "best interests of the child" really means do the things that will generate the most revenue for the system. Similarly, "protecting innocent DV victims" translates into generating $$ for the court, the DV training contractors (who, by the way, are a reliable contributor to the campaign fund for the judges), and $$ for the family court attorney (who are typically the TOP contributors to the election campaigns for judges).

    In this case, the initial reports make it *sound* like Hill crossed a line or two, and the charges may be legit. Legit, as opposed to a 2-way screaming match and a little 2-way pushing and shoving initiated by the woman; the honest DV studies show that women initiate over 50% of physical confrontations, but men responding back physically in anger do a LOT more damage... Since Hill can afford a real attorney, (not just a public defender) if he's convicted or any outcome other than charges dropped, we can assume there was some serious sh*t that truly went down.

    I agree with all the other posters who said Leroy Hill had played his last down as a Seahawk, DV or no DV. Hill was a weak link in pass defense, and had lost a step or two. I don't think he's under contract for next year. I bet some other team (Jacksonville?) picks him up off the scrap heap and gets another year or two out of him.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:It's a bit disconcerting how much some of our posters know about laws relating to kidnapping and imprisoning other people. ;)


    Apparently a lot of people have axes, I mean exes. Personally... I blame this kind of crap on Dr. Phil and Reality Television enhancing the psycho drama queen princess behavior we see in society.... Bad Girls Club, Ultimate Fighter, Rock of Love, Dr. Phil, Celebrity Rehab. By showing the behavior on TV, TV leads people to believe that behavior is okay in society. Then we wonder why we're getting our asses kicked in the global marketplace.
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  • Good bye Leroy, it's been fun.

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  • As far as Leroy being a Seahawk next year is concerned, that ship has long since sailed in my opinion for all the reasons I talked about before.

    Now if we're talking about Leroy Hill the man and judging him simply in regards to this incident -- my thoughts on that are pretty simple and straightforward. I'm assuming that one way or another he's going to end up going to counseling --either he figures out there's some issue, someone close to him pressures him to go, or he's court ordered to go at some point in his life. (Those counseling situations are totally different animals, by the way)

    So, if I were counseling Leroy Hill, this is the essence of the central question I would be posing to him. I would be asking him, "Leroy, why is it that your name keeps ending up in police reports?" I would also be asking him about the incident 2 years ago ... hopefully trying to get him to see a pattern and to identify his part in these blow-ups. You see, even if he ends up being totally innocent in this particular case ... the very fact that we have seen this kind of thing in connection to him before (and I will go out on a pretty firm limb and say that there have been plenty of other similar incidences that never ended up in a police blotter) speaks to the fact that he has WAY bigger fish than football to fry. It speaks to the fact that he has a problem -- a problem he's not going to be able to fix on his own.
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  • Aros wrote:Either way, he's played his last down as a Seattle Seahawk. Book that.

    If I had a dollar for every time I've said that, I'd have 4 dollars.
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  • As a former prosecutor I can tell you that the crime of DV unlawful imprisonment is taken seriously, and you can bet they will push it as far as they can if this goes to trial. No reason not to. Perhaps they would drop it if he agrees to plead to felony assault, but depending on the extent that Leroy actually "imprisoned" her, you could see the most damning facts come in support of that charge. If we are talking about forcible, violent restraint preventing her from leaving, that is no throwaway charge.
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  • Missing_Clink wrote:As a former prosecutor I can tell you that the crime of DV unlawful imprisonment is taken seriously, and you can bet they will push it as far as they can if this goes to trial. No reason not to. Perhaps they would drop it if he agrees to plead to felony assault, but depending on the extent that Leroy actually "imprisoned" her, you could see the most damning facts come in support of that charge. If we are talking about forcible, violent restraint preventing her from leaving, that is no throwaway charge.


    No way. I just dont see it.

    I respect and trust your career history, but I've had a prosecutor flat tell me it's a charge used as a throw away. That short of duct taping someone, its hard to prosecute. Now, maybe Leroy did that? Maybe it was the proper use of the charge.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:As far as Leroy being a Seahawk next year is concerned, that ship has long since sailed in my opinion for all the reasons I talked about before.

    Now if we're talking about Leroy Hill the man and judging him simply in regards to this incident -- my thoughts on that are pretty simple and straightforward. I'm assuming that one way or another he's going to end up going to counseling --either he figures out there's some issue, someone close to him pressures him to go, or he's court ordered to go at some point in his life. (Those counseling situations are totally different animals, by the way)

    So, if I were counseling Leroy Hill, this is the essence of the central question I would be posing to him. I would be asking him, "Leroy, why is it that your name keeps ending up in police reports?" I would also be asking him about the incident 2 years ago ... hopefully trying to get him to see a pattern and to identify his part in these blow-ups. You see, even if he ends up being totally innocent in this particular case ... the very fact that we have seen this kind of thing in connection to him before (and I will go out on a pretty firm limb and say that there have been plenty of other similar incidences that never ended up in a police blotter) speaks to the fact that he has WAY bigger fish than football to fry. It speaks to the fact that he has a problem -- a problem he's not going to be able to fix on his own.


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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:03 am
  • pehawk wrote:No way. I just dont see it.

    I respect and trust your career history, but I've had a prosecutor flat tell me it's a charge used as a throw away. That short of duct taping someone, its hard to prosecute. Now, maybe Leroy did that? Maybe it was the proper use of the charge.



    All cases are fact specific, but I'm not sure why you or that person you talked to think that a felony charge such as DV unlawful imprisonment is almost always a throwaway charge. It can be a huge deal. In the DV context, if a suspect assaults their partner and then prevents them from leaving the house to report the crime, that is a very big problem. Regardless of what you have heard, surely you can see why as a society, we do not want situations where victims of crimes are held against their will so they cannot report those crimes. I have no idea what happened in Leroy's case, but it certainly sounds like it could end up being a big deal for him.

    Also, the original post used the example of taking someone's phone so they cannot call 911. That is not an accurate comparison to a DV situation. RCW 9A.36.150 is the statute that deals specifically with situations in which a suspect commits DV and then prevents the victim from calling 911. Note that this offense is a gross misdemeanor, which is less severe than a felony. From what I have read, this sounds like it may be an appropriate charge. If Leroy does get charged with felony unlawful imprisonment rather than interfering with reporting, I would take that to mean the facts are especially egregious.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:05 am
  • pehawk wrote:
    Missing_Clink wrote:As a former prosecutor I can tell you that the crime of DV unlawful imprisonment is taken seriously, and you can bet they will push it as far as they can if this goes to trial. No reason not to. Perhaps they would drop it if he agrees to plead to felony assault, but depending on the extent that Leroy actually "imprisoned" her, you could see the most damning facts come in support of that charge. If we are talking about forcible, violent restraint preventing her from leaving, that is no throwaway charge.


    No way. I just dont see it.

    I respect and trust your career history, but I've had a prosecutor flat tell me it's a charge used as a throw away. That short of duct taping someone, its hard to prosecute. Now, maybe Leroy did that? Maybe it was the proper use of the charge.


    It CAN be used as a throw-away, but it can also be pretty serious AS I ELUDED TO EARLIER. Coupled with felony assault, it will probably be used as a bargaining chip for a plea.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:09 am
  • pehawk wrote:Ive never seen it not dropped. Always struck me as a charge a cop gave because brutality's frowned upon.

    Anthony? My name's Ryan, Les.


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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:09 am
  • Alright, maybe it's a different animal in a DV setting, entirely then? And, it may have to do with the county as well, if its a high volume county, it could be different? Where I heard that was indeed very high volume.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:09 am
  • While Domestic violence is no laughing matter, the police tend to charge (mostly men) just to cover their ass.

    True story, while in my first home, in 1999, i had a Seahawk party with about 4 couples over watching the Monday night Green Bay game. We were pretty loud that night and it got me in trouble.

    I think the WR was Mayes that scored, when I jumped up, accidentally tipping over a piece of art (made of iron) that fell into a window and busted it.

    My nosey Mrs. Kravitz next door neighbor (old lady with serious drama issues) calls the police, claiming that my wife and I were fighting, when in fact the entire evening was full of raw happiness.

    They showed up, even though the situation was explained and verified, the cops literally put me in cuffs and arrested me for Domestic Violence (Malicious Mischief) for property damage TO MY OWN PROPERTY.

    Stating that my neighbor reported that my wife and I were fighting and yelling they took me in to the new Kent Jail down the hill. Since it was a DV charge, they automatically give a restraining order and would not let me out without posting 1500.00 bail which was posted before I was even processed. My wife demanded that there was no crime, no backing of charges yet it went to arraignment, literally the next day.

    I tried to explain to the judge that this was a mistake, that it was completely ridiculous which she heard as a smart-ass comment and would not return my bail. After retaining a lawyer, the prosecutor literally tried to make a deal, to get me to accept the charge of Malicious Mischief to end the case which my lawyer called him on and told him he doesn't have any witnesses and that my wife was certainly not going to be a good one for them so they dropped it.

    They confiscated my guns that night too. Took me 2 months to get them back WITH a lawyer. While I was not convicted, an arrest for DV showed up on my record and it nearly cost me my security clearance at work.

    That game cost me about 1000 in legal fees and another amount to have just the arrest removed from my record because legally, if I was ever asked if I have been ARRESTED for a crime, that I had to answer yes until it was removed which was different than having a conviction removed.

    So when Leroy Hill gets arrested for DV, I am not so quick to fall for the stories, even though he has been in trouble before. I don't think he would have been back anyways, but it is just an example of how quickly that charge can ruin your life. I get that we need to protect women from abusive men, so I am not saying that it is a bad law, but it sure has a way of taking a very harmful course on someone who is possibly guilty of nothing.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:14 am
  • Is Les a cop?
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:18 am
  • I didn't think Leroy was coming back even before this latest incident............this just expedites the process of his exit from Seattle.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:20 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Well I'm thinking Smitty has taken his job at this point, but I would think hope this type of info would make the moral condemners hold off on their judgement, at least for a little while.

    Good luck.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:22 am
  • Hill needs to learn compassion. He doesn't even have it for himself. Sad, really sad.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:43 am
  • "I would take that to mean the facts are especially egregious."

    Anytime anyone uses the word "egregious" in a sports forum he's out of line. To me that means they have decided to use this place as a courtroom rather than a place to talk sports.

    jesus.....save it for a judge, nothing but common folks here.

    :roll:
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    The Radish
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:54 am
  • pehawk wrote:Hill needs to learn compassion. He doesn't even have it for himself. Sad, really sad.

    True. Otherwise he'll only ever be a pathetic almost-was.
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    MysterMatt
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:17 am
  • MysterMatt wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Hill needs to learn compassion. He doesn't even have it for himself. Sad, really sad.

    True. Otherwise he'll only ever be a pathetic almost-was.


    Jesus. You've really got it in for Leroy Hill, don't you? Rein it in a little.
    Machine-wrapped, with butter?

    Yes, machine-wrapped, WITH BUTTER
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    cdallan
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:19 am
  • That's an insane story, loaf. I would be soooooo pissed.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 am
  • The Radish wrote:"I would take that to mean the facts are especially egregious."

    Anytime anyone uses the word "egregious" in a sports forum he's out of line. To me that means they have decided to use this place as a courtroom rather than a place to talk sports.

    jesus.....save it for a judge, nothing but common folks here.

    :roll:


    There's nothing common about me. I'm fabulous!
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    So you're admitting I'm a celeb...
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:12 pm
  • cdallan wrote:
    MysterMatt wrote:
    True. Otherwise he'll only ever be a pathetic almost-was.


    Jesus. You've really got it in for Leroy Hill, don't you? Rein it in a little.

    Sort of a private joke. You couldn't be expected to understand.
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Re: FWIW...Leroy's Charge will get dropped
Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:16 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:
    The Radish wrote:"I would take that to mean the facts are especially egregious."

    Anytime anyone uses the word "egregious" in a sports forum he's out of line. To me that means they have decided to use this place as a courtroom rather than a place to talk sports.

    jesus.....save it for a judge, nothing but common folks here.

    :roll:


    There's nothing common about me. I'm fabulous!
    :229031_thewave:



    FLUBULOUS is the word you're looking for.

    :roll:
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