Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?

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  • I know Russell would not have let his emotions overwhelm him like Matt did. Matt let the refs frustrate him into mistakes, including the costly INT that he received the penalty on.

    I love Hass, but Wilson does not let himself become frustrated like Hass did. He would have played much more calmly in XL and it may have been the difference...refs screwing us or not.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:38 pm
  • Sure, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. Means about as much at this point. It's in the past, time to let it go.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:02 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:Sure, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. Means about as much at this point. It's in the past, time to let it go.


    The thread topic is a 'what if' scenario, so if you don't want to play, urinals are for peeing in.

    I feel Russell would have at least made that game a nail-biter. It's what he has done all of reg/post season.
    Russell has the ability to elevate the play of his team mates. Consistent with this position, is one of the comments Larry Fitzgerald made after playing with Russell for the FIRST time in his career. He said that the other guys on that Pro Bowl team "gravitated" to Russell. That's a powerful statement when you consider Fitz is a seasoned vet, along with quite a few others in that squad.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:27 pm
  • CANHawk wrote:Sure, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. Means about as much at this point. It's in the past, time to let it go.
    HawKnPeppa wrote:The thread topic is a 'what if' scenario, so if you don't want to play, urinals are for peeing in.


    Umm...he's a squatter. But i get your point. :mrgreen:

    Correct me if i'm wrong here, but didn't Russell have a better statistical year his rookie year than Matt had in any of his years?
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:56 am
  • Of course we win with Wilson at QB in Super Bowl XL. Mostly because of the retarded pick Hasselbeck threw after the phantom holding penalty. Wilson would not have made that kind of mistake.
    And it's like others have said. Down 11 in 4Q, with Wilson, we BELIEVE. He influences everyone to elevate their play. And can you imagine Wilson with an O-Line that can protect him, and he can find receivers instead of always scrambling for his life? We rack up at least 28 points with Wilson at QB, and win by 2 TD's.
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  • The better question is. Do we won that Superbowl with the 2012 Seahawk team? That answer is YES. We streamroll the STEALERS and beat down Bettis and his hollywood movie ending worse then childrapist in prison.
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:I don't believe questionable QB play was an issue in SBXL. There were other factors that led to losing that game. As much as I like Russell, with those circumstances I don't believe he would led the Seahawks to a win. He doesn't control penalties and poor defensive play.


    Questionable QB play wasn't an issue - I agree - but Matt didn't "tilt the field" that day, but do you think - given 49 attempts as Hasselbeck did (not to mention 20 rushing attempts by Alexander) that we'd only put 10 points on the board?

    The people that are saying nobody could have overcome the refs that day - compare the calls in that game to the calls in Chicago earlier this year (a game Russell didn't panic in and still won).

    I know the calls in XL were bad, but some of the ones in that Bears game were ridiculous, I don't see any difference in the two
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  • the refs weren't gonna let us win regardless of who we had.
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  • Who do the Steelers get to change out?
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  • Wilson has already shown he doesn't let the fact that everything going against him get him unfocused and defeated, and that is a major difference between this team and that. But it's not just the quarterbacks. That infectious attitude carries over to all the other players too.

    I think Wilson alone would give us a shot to win it, but this team versus that team has a better shot too. Remember, it was reportedly Flynn who was pumping everyone up on the sidelines, telling the team we were still in the Atlanta game.
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  • Threads like this are kind of dangerous because they bring out some pretty bad information and bias is 100% the most important component in the decision process.

    Wilson would have never thrown the pick? Really? Because if the Bear's DB's could catch a football we would never have had that comeback. Wilson is great but he isn't a robot. Receivers and QB's have communication breakdowns and if Wilson throws the ball 49 times then you can reasonably expect it might happen.

    Panic in the 4th. I put most of that on Holmgren. He was absolutely freaking out on the sidelines and did as much to take his team out of it as the officiating.

    The Pylon pass to Djack: That pass is one of the reasons I don't have fond memories of Jackson. All the talent in the world but constant brain farts and that pass was his biggest one. I have watched it to many times and the pass was amazing. Put where only Djack could get it from the 39 yard line and dropped into his hands perfectly. Djack caught the ball in bounds over his left shoulder with his leading right foot inside the line. All he had to do was drag his left foot and it would have been first and goal at the one yard line but Djack pulled another Djack and carried his left foot and actually stepped on the out of bounds line. Any decent receiver would have made that a catch. Now that being said does anyone believe the officials or even booth review would have called it a catch? Based on everything else in that game, I don't know how you could.

    Would Holmgren have run the option? I doubt it. Would Shanahan have RGIII running it so Carroll would have known how to copy it? Well since RGIII wasn't in the NFL, I doubt it and if you remove the option from Wilson's play book and force him to be strictly a pocket passer, does his stats really look the same?

    Questions like the one the OP is posting remind me of Tarvarus's fan club. They are so blatantly bias toward the favored QB they induce delusions of grandeur and completely ignore anything needed to see what they want. It invokes taking sides and ignores what the real cause of that SBXL result was.

    I guess it is fair to ask, if Eric Pruit replaced Earl Thomas this year, would we still have won 11 games?
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:22 am
  • I don't think so.

    Hass was actually on in that game, every time something good happened, it would get thwarted by a "timely" penalty.

    The Hawks were the least penalized team in the league that year. Yet in the SB, Locklear was called for holding a guy that even Mike Pussyieria, head of officiating acknowledges was offsides. Even then, it wasn't a hold. The Hawks had more calls go against them in that one game, than literally 3 of their other games that year combined. The Steelers had THREE.. Count them THREE go against them, two of them being in the first half for 5 yard, pre-snap procedure calls that are mandatory.

    No matter what anyone says or feels, the NFL had a lot of money to lose if the Seahawks win that game. Just on licensing alone. Does that mean it was fixed? No, but we are talking about millions and millions of dollars, not to mention the ridiculous supply of merchandise that had to be pre-made in order to fulfill the world-wide Steeler fan base in the event of a Steeler win.

    It does bring a question though, with Russell Wilson getting SO much love from EVERYONE, could it have outmatched the heart-warming story of an overweight, aging and ineffective RB coming home to play his last game?

    I don't think it would have mattered, but I bet Wilson would have had a great game no matter how he was played.

    None of that matters anymore, Wilson is forcing the league and the East Coast to give attention. The guy is their dream icon and can flat out play football.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:29 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    rastahawk wrote:Yeah yeah I know but its the off season so what the heck.

    Wilson has a quality that I have never seen in any other Seahawk QB and that is his uncanny ability to keep us believing that we have a chance to win the game no matter the circumstances. People just don't vacate the stands if we're down by 3 scores in the 4th quarter. That's when the little maestro takes over. This is not aimed at bashing Matt (and I love Matt) but I have always felt that if we were in a critical rally point in a game I am NOT overly surprised if Matt throws an interception, takes an incorrect option, or gets sacked. In those situations Wilson has much more upside. He is a better "Closer". In SBXL we came out and laid an egg in the 4th qtr. I don't think that happens with Wilson.

    I know there are a LOT of folks here that will say no, and I believe they would be wrong.
    Here we finally get a brightly glowing star, that is being touted by the > MEDIA<, and critics are nowhere to be found, EVERYBODY wants Russell Wilson to succeed.
    You can't just ignore RW, because there are too many waiting for someone/anyone to step aside for just one second, so they can jump in to grease the wheels on the Wilson bandwagon.
    His kind of character demands that the officiating be 100% fair, and at it's very best.
    Only reason RW couldn't do the job then, is because he's just too damned short for Holmgrens liking.quote]

    Holmgren drafted Seneca Wallace who is about the same height as RW. So I don't think height would have been a factor. Which player that Holmgren kept on the bench that should have been playing over someone else? I think Holmgren would have played RW, if he had him. RW earned his playing time by what he did. I think Holmgren would have respected that and would have no qualms about playing him if he would have given the best chance to win. You don't take three teams to the Superbowl without having a clue of what your doing. The demise of the Seahawks happened because Holmgren and Ruskell were in a power struggle. Fortunately, now the coach and GM are on the same page.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:07 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:Who do the Steelers get to change out?


    Willie Parker for Rashard Mendenhall.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:27 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Who do the Steelers get to change out?


    Willie Parker for Rashard Mendenhall.


    Then yeah, I think we win.
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  • HawKnPeppa wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:Sure, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. Means about as much at this point. It's in the past, time to let it go.


    The thread topic is a 'what if' scenario, so if you don't want to play, urinals are for peeing in.

    I feel Russell would have at least made that game a nail-biter. It's what he has done all of reg/post season.
    Russell has the ability to elevate the play of his team mates. Consistent with this position, is one of the comments Larry Fitzgerald made after playing with Russell for the FIRST time in his career. He said that the other guys on that Pro Bowl team "gravitated" to Russell. That's a powerful statement when you consider Fitz is a seasoned vet, along with quite a few others in that squad.


    Because it's a useless exersice that doesn't really accomplish anything. Sure you could magically parachute Russell into that game, but the offense at that time was geared toward Hass's skillset... so let's imagine that we're going to parachute Bevel in as well. But that's a whole new offense, so let's pretend everyone had a season to work with Russell and Bevel... oh but Robbie Tobek won't be used to Russell's calls so let's trade out Tobek for Unger.... etc. etc. etc.

    Before you know it, we're exchanging the entire offensive line for a pair of Cat bulldozers and giving all the wide recievers rocket boots. Sure, If I litterally had bulldozers blocking for me and WR's with rocket boots we would probably beat the 2005 Steelers. But what if the Steelers could trade Joey Porter for a Silverback Gorilla on a skateboard...

    One off what if's are dumb. At least make it team for team. Could the `12 Hawks in their entirety beat the `05 Steelers? Abso-frakkin-lutely.
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  • Ok, OP. I'll play.

    I believe we do win that game with Russ. There's one thing that Russ does for this team that Hass never could. He can make them focus, and re-focus again, if needed. Hass couldn't stop the meltdown once it started, but Russ? Would have stopped that ish with the quickness!
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    HawKnPeppa wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:Sure, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. Means about as much at this point. It's in the past, time to let it go.


    The thread topic is a 'what if' scenario, so if you don't want to play, urinals are for peeing in.

    I feel Russell would have at least made that game a nail-biter. It's what he has done all of reg/post season.
    Russell has the ability to elevate the play of his team mates. Consistent with this position, is one of the comments Larry Fitzgerald made after playing with Russell for the FIRST time in his career. He said that the other guys on that Pro Bowl team "gravitated" to Russell. That's a powerful statement when you consider Fitz is a seasoned vet, along with quite a few others in that squad.


    Because it's a useless exersice that doesn't really accomplish anything. Sure you could magically parachute Russell into that game, but the offense at that time was geared toward Hass's skillset... so let's imagine that we're going to parachute Bevel in as well. But that's a whole new offense, so let's pretend everyone had a season to work with Russell and Bevel... oh but Robbie Tobek won't be used to Russell's calls so let's trade out Tobek for Unger.... etc. etc. etc.

    Before you know it, we're exchanging the entire offensive line for a pair of Cat bulldozers and giving all the wide recievers rocket boots. Sure, If I litterally had bulldozers blocking for me and WR's with rocket boots we would probably beat the 2005 Steelers. But what if the Steelers could trade Joey Porter for a Silverback Gorilla on a skateboard...

    One off what if's are dumb. At least make it team for team. Could the `12 Hawks in their entirety beat the `05 Steelers? Abso-frakkin-lutely.



    Good post Can and while I agree in general, I'm not sure there was any way we were going to be allowed to win that game, Sorry, I know it's conspiratorial but nothing will ever change my mind that the winner of that game was decided before the first kickoff. But I do agree with your post.

    Maybe the better question is, would the officials have had to work even harder?
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  • Odd that nobody has referenced the difference between Hass' and Wilsons running, scrambling ability. Hass definitely made plays with his legs..as in, he could move the chains when called upon. RW, OTOH, keeps plays alive and also runs for 1st downs AND touchdowns.

    Loved Hass (still sport the #8 jersey) but IMO, RW is clearly the more omni-dimensional QB. Much harder to game plan for and with Strong, Walt and Hutch in front of him, I think RW would have gashed shittsburgh for 80 yards on about 5 carries. This also would have made SA more of a threat.

    I think with RW, we win that game. I also think the 2012 team would have won that game. We did'nt, water under the bridge, but a good topic none-the-less.
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  • Lets be serious.... With Holmgren coaching, Seneca Wallace would have been starting or we would not be running the offense with his strengths. Its hard to tell because there are too many variables.
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  • strohmin wrote:Lets be serious.... With Holmgren coaching, Seneca Wallace would have been starting or we would not be running the offense with his strengths. Its hard to tell because there are too many variables.


    One more variable. Russel Wilson was 17 during Superbowl XL.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:50 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:Who do the Steelers get to change out?


    2012 Ben Rofliesburger for 2005 Ben Rofliesburger.
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  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:Who do the Steelers get to change out?


    2012 Ben Rofliesburger for 2005 Ben Rofliesburger.


    Then in that case, no. We probably still lose. Roethlisberger's gotten much better over his career, even as the Pittsburgh O-line has gotten worse and their run game has disappeared.
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  • 22.7 QBR is not that hard to improve on. Unbelievable some say we didn't do enough to win.
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  • Easily the worst performance by the refs in the history of Super Bowls. I've even met Niner fans who were outraged by the way the Hawks got screwed. Don't forget that when Holmgren was running the team, a lot of Niner fans were rooting for the Hawks to win that game because Holmgren was their homeboy. He grew up in SF and was a great offensive coordinator for the Niners in their golden years.
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  • Look, the Stealers were going to win that game before the kickoff.

    85% of the fans in the crowd were waving urine colored towels around. The refs feared for their lives that day and made the calls that made sure they returned home with all family members unharmed. Not a soul in the media looked into the possibility of a payoff for fear they themselves would just not make it home one night. It was a mafia thing.

    It didn't matter what QB played that game, but Russ might have avoided a sack that Hass couldn't, and may have found the wide-open receiver in the other end of the endzone rather than throwing to the pushing-off D-jack. If memory serves, Joe J was standing there waving is arms he was so alone on that play.
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  • RichNhansom wrote:22.7 QBR is not that hard to improve on. Unbelievable some say we didn't do enough to win.


    We didn't. You don't allow a 75-yard TD run and a trick play to go for a TD and expect to win when your offense isn't sustaining drives.

    Yes, the officiating was awful and definitely impacted the game, but the injury to Manuel was a much bigger deal, imo. Plus, Stevens dropping multiple passes didn't help.

    The team we saw in the SB didn't resemble the team that had been tearing up the league all season, folks. I don't know if the shoddy officiating got everyone all nervous or what, but the way the Seahawks were playing in 2005, they should have been able to overcome damn near every obstacle they faced. They didn't.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:58 am
  • I'm pretty sure RW would win behind that OL. He'd probably be laughing in disbelief about having so much time to throw.
    "I cannot believe this............ I am stunned right now. This is now a rebuilding year for us. Our offense is crap now"

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  • Russell wins that game because we put up more than 21 points with him, Matt always panicked and choked when the going got tough.
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  • SuperFreak wrote:Russell wins that game because we put up more than 21 points with him, Matt always panicked and choked when the going got tough.



    That's what I'm sayin! The Stealers wouldn't have been able to grind it against us and no amount of trick plays would have been enough to keep up. The whole offense tanked (with the exception of maybe Big Walt) because they were behind, getting all of the calls against them and saw Matty freaking out. Wilson get's his eye-of-tiger on when we're in the hole. No way he would allow the O to slump like that. When the chips are down, he elevates and the rest of the O gravitates. 8)
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  • No we probably would have been skunked.
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  • I admire Wilson's strength of character, and how he never gives up.

    But I've never seen any team have to deal with that kind of adversity, especially in the Superbowl. The Packers fans all bitch about the hail mary this season; SB XL had about 5-7 shitty play calls of that magnitude, and they all went against one team.

    You can control what the other team does to you. You can control what you do to the other team. You can't control what the refs do to you. I haven't seen a team yet with the fortitude to not just say "f**k it. no way the refs are letting us win this game" when things are going that wrong.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 am
  • Wilson would have been 17 years old.. no way we win :D
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:36 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:Wilson would have been 17 years old.. no way we win :D


    You don't tell Wilson what he can't do.
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  • I know...I know...it's how many years after the fact. BUT today it's the off season and I decided to man up and watch the SBXL again..from a non homer approach. This is the first time I've seen the game since it has been played.


    I'm only half way through the first qtr and frankly Hasselbeck is playing like dog poop and Chris Grey screwed the pooch on a completely unneccesary hold that killed a drive.


    Matt has missed two easy passes. He ran a yard short for a first down and probably could have run for 15-20. He totally pussed out.

    So far in this game RW would have thrown for probably two TD's. The steelers are playing like crap. 2 penalties for offensive line jumps and it is totally a Steeler crowd. We should be handing Pittsburg their asses.

    I'll add more observations but it is a lot of time invested ... As I watch the game again with fresh eyes the mistakes WE made are glaring.

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  • SuperFreak wrote:Matt always panicked and choked when the going got tough.

    No
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:07 am
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:
    SuperFreak wrote:Matt always panicked and choked when the going got tough.

    No


    Not always, but frequently enough to be frustrating to watch at times.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:08 am
  • The question is...Would Russell Wilson have done a better job than Matt Hasselbeck?

    So far in the first two series on offense I would have to say..at THIS stage in Wilson's experience the answer is clearly yes.

    Even with the same play calling Hasselbeck is missing easy passes. Most are being caught but the balls are poorly thrown. DJ is making Hasselbeck look good. A simple screen to our league leading halfback is poorly placed and goes nowhere. A wide open WR 15 yards downfield middle left is overthrown by several feet. On the second series a wide open WR running down the left sideline in overthrown by ten feet and nearly intercepted. Both of those horrible misses are easy throws for Wilson.

    Matt did make a great throw at the end of the second series but Chris Grey put a choke hold on the DE and a great play unneccesarily turned into a ten yard penalty. A reversal of approximately 30 yards.

    All in all Matt sucked in the first part of the game in accuracy. Wilson would have delivered more catchable balls and not overthrown the two that Hasselbeck really blew.
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:48 am
  • I believe we win the Super Bowl with Zach Miller. Damn you Stevens!
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:06 am
  • This thread may seem stupid to some fans. Could have...should have...and those EVIL refs.

    Still that game was our ONLY SB experience and we can draw from the game 411 that could be usefull.

    For some reason Pittsburg appeared to be the team with the Super Bowl jitters. They made numerous mistakes in the first qtr. Todays Seahawks would have torched them for at least two TD's in the first half of the first qtr.

    I know it is dumb to think more than one game at a time ahead but for us I think it is a forgone conclusion that we will make the playoffs this year...either by winning the NFCW outright and having home field thruout down to a dogfight for a wild card position if we are unlucky in our own division which is possible with so much strength to challege right here in the West.

    About halfway into the run this year I hope we start studying the leaders in the other divisions with a seperate super secret Super Bowl task force identifying te tendencies of our likely opponents in the playoffs.

    The seperation is in the preparation...GO HAWKS!!!!!
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Re: Do we win SBXL with Wilson as the QB?
Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:15 pm
  • It's amazing how clear 20/20 hindsight can be!! :shock:
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  • Bigpumpkin wrote:It's amazing how clear 20/20 hindsight can be!! :shock:


    It's amazing how we hang on to mythology we believed at the time. All we ever talk about is how we got burned by the officiating. A couple of questionable calls and we would have won...blah ...blah...blah...

    It's nice to have a video of the whole game we can play back and forth to really look hard and clearly as to what occured. It was a shock to me to watch the game and as the OP questions...would RW have done any better? Our defense was great for that game from what I saw so far in the first qtr. Pittsburg's DB's sucked. Their offense sucked. 2.. 3 and outs in the first half of the first qtr. Wilson would have shreded them like we played SF in Seattle.

    My memory does not recall how badly Hasselbeck was throwing the ball as the game began.

    Ya... it's 20/20 hindsight but it is what it is without me sitting there in front of the TV desperately wanting success.

    The truth is that Matt was TRYING to push the ball downfield but he was not getting the job done. Pittsburg was on it's heals and our QB couldn't put his foot on their throats and score. Being a grade A Homer I just didn't see it at the time. I do find it interesting to look back on the game with a clearer perspective.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:Who do the Steelers get to change out?

    No one. They had their "penalty flag defense" in top form that day, They were not going to let Pissburgh leave Detroit without the Lombardi!
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!
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