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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:26 pm 
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This guy might turn out to be nothing, but it makes me laugh out loud when people on this board brush off a signing without giving our FO the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously, how many times does this FO have to take a "nobody" player and turn them into a solid contributor before you realize that they can find some good players from the bargain bin? Even players that no other team wants?

I'll reserve judgment until after training camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:29 pm 
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I would also like to see us pick up Ramses Barden in free agency. He has been with the Giants out of Cal Poly. Similar measurements and strong hands.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
For comparison, which player would you rather us sign?

Player A: 71 rec, 798 yards, 4 TDs
Player B: 85 rec, 1,064 yards, 13 TDs

Well, if Player B
I would rather have Fitz over Decker. Evan Moore was as big as Jimmy Graham, bit I would rather have the one who can clap without missing.

This Williams dude didn't get cut because Ryan Lindley sucks. Just like Evan Moore had one catch even though Wilson is awesome. This notion that great QBs can make d listers into good receivers has got to go.


You're right of course, but I'd also mention that the snapshot comparison I made would also indicate that a crappy quarterback can make a receiver look a whole lot worse than they really are. We know Fitz is an absolute beast of a receiver, but put up very forgettable, pedestrian numbers when paired with a bunch of no-name quarterbacks. Paired with Peyton Manning, that match-up could eclipse Stafford-to-Megatron or Montana-to-Rice.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:14 pm 
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HawkFan72 wrote:
This guy might turn out to be nothing, but it makes me laugh out loud when people on this board brush off a signing without giving our FO the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously, how many times does this FO have to take a "nobody" player and turn them into a solid contributor before you realize that they can find some good players from the bargain bin? Even players that no other team wants?

I'll reserve judgment until after training camp.

:13:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:57 pm 
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HawkFan72 wrote:
This guy might turn out to be nothing, but it makes me laugh out loud when people on this board brush off a signing without giving our FO the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously, how many times does this FO have to take a "nobody" player and turn them into a solid contributor before you realize that they can find some good players from the bargain bin? Even players that no other team wants?

I'll reserve judgment until after training camp.

+1
I really have my doubts that there are many talent evaluators around here that can boast a better record for finding players that can light it up than Schneider or Carroll.
Could he turn out to be a bust?, absolutely, but he could turn out to be damned good player as well.
John Schneider just likes to Dig A Little Deeper for that diamond.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:09 pm 
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I heard Mel Kiper thought this was one of the dumbest moves he's ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:42 pm 
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After reading that article, I'm actually pretty enthused, if not excited, about this pickup. If you are just replying, and didn't even read what was in the OP, you should read it:

In December, Williams injured his right Achilles’ tendon and was cut by the Cardinals, and John Schneider recently signed him to a two-year $1.2 million futures contract worth $555,000 in 2013 and $645,000 in 2014. “We got him,” Schneider was recently quoted as saying.

“It’s insane. It’s an absolute crime,” Cardinal’s Bertrand Berry said back in 2010 when asked how NFL teams failed to draft Williams. In the same 2010 interview, Larry Fitzgerald said that Williams may eventually replace him as the #1 receiver on the Cardinal offense. ”That’s a good thing to hear coming from a guy like that (Fitzgerald),” Williams said. “I’m learning from him every day, how to pick his brain and run routes like him and the different techniques he uses to get open.” Derek Anderson compared Williams to Josh Cribbs of the Cleveland Browns. ”Josh was one of those guys,” Anderson said. “He’s not a great receiver, but he’s a great athlete and probably one of the best football players I’ve ever been around.”


I know this doesn't mean much, and he was an undrafted receiver to begin with.... but this is promising. And we all know the terrible situation in Arizona- combined with John and Pete's knack for finding talent, we could have a case for something here. I'm not counting on it, but I am optimistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
What happened too Rocardo Locette?

Dont get too excited about players that have on the surface seam like good players but just dont have the pedigree or track record to make it in the NFL.

My neighbor is 6'5", big dude, looks like he can run but I am not under any misconceptions that he could get the job done at the NFL level.

But, there's a world of difference between your neighbor (who I take is NOT a football player) and Stephen Williams - who IS an NFL football player with a track record. Isn't the average career just something like 4 years? He's halfway there man. He's been doing it (without a good QB.) I don't see anyone saying Williams is a lock or being overly excited. I think this signing is noteworthy without overstating it. Of course he has to prove himself valuable enough to make the roster. That will most definitely be determined. I'll say this about Williams, though. If JS is truely excited about him... I trust he's looking at the player's college body of work as well as the same consideration everyone squawks about with Larry Fitzgerald - that he would be much more productive with a QB that could get him the ball. He has been stuck on the same WR corps :Dunno: Stephen Williams is worth a look to see if there is more there with a capable QB to get him the ball. There was a buzz about this guy coming out of college into the draft. Tough to judge a guy on just 2 years in Arizona when there was plenty of things wrong about that offense. Williams has impressed at both the college and (though more limited) NFL level already.

Thanks to the original poster. I enjoyed reading it and can appreciate your cautious excitement when a player like this with potential gets signed for a look. We'll see if SW works out or if JS/PC find even better talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Aren't you concerned about all the bandwagon fans after Williams dominates SportsCenter every week?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I think you are making a bigger deal out a guy the Cardinals cut December 14 than is really warranted.


If you haven't, you should read the article he wrote. I thought it was pretty informative.

I don't think anyone is making presumptions about Stephen Williams. He does have two things going in his favor though:

#1: The Arizona Cardinals are a notoriously incompetent franchise.

#2: Pete Carroll is not new to the idea of turning other team's bums into good football players.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Stephen Williams probably won't pan out, but this signing shows one of the subtle things John Schneider does that makes him a brilliant GM. He signed Williams to a 2 year deal that pays Williams very close to the league minimum over 2013 and 2014. That way, if Williams actually has a good season in 2013, he's still coming back at a bargain rate in 2014. Pretty clever. Sign those desperate players to cheap multi-year deals while they are in no position to say no. He did the same trick with Brandon Browner.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:06 pm 
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This video clearly shows that he has talent.....so did Mike Williams at times....he just wasn't consistent. If Stephan has hands like Larry Fitzgerald, then we might just have ourselves a real WR!


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:32 am 
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I'm going to hope for the best. I like the potential but he might just be camp fodder, yes JS has had some huge signings but we've also had some total duds. Such is football, I just think it's premature to call this guy a replacement for Mike Williams who once caught 60+ passes.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:27 pm 
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I'm cautiously optimistic. Guys with big bodies that don't get great separation excel at 2 things:

quick slants where they can shield the defender, and jump balls.

Wilson doens't throw the quick slant all that well (yet).

Wilson excelled at throwing successful jump balls to 5'10" Golden Tate. If we can find a spot for him in this offense, I'm betting he can make an impact as a 1st down and red zone guy as a 4th or possible 3rd WR. Remember, the one constant with Baldwin is that he will get hurt. We need a solid #4 that can fill in for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:34 pm 
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How is Baldwin being hurt a gimme? He got banged up good the first game and played hurt all year, but I wouldn't call him injury prone.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic. Guys with big bodies that don't get great separation excel at 2 things:

quick slants where they can shield the defender, and jump balls.

Wilson doens't throw the quick slant all that well (yet).

Wilson excelled at throwing successful jump balls to 5'10" Golden Tate. If we can find a spot for him in this offense, I'm betting he can make an impact as a 1st down and red zone guy as a 4th or possible 3rd WR. Remember, the one constant with Baldwin is that he will get hurt. We need a solid #4 that can fill in for him.


What makes you say he doesn't get great separation? I haven't seen any real good vids on him, but dude apparently ran a 4.5 40 with a 2.52 20 yard split. That's pretty quick. Especially for a dude who's 6'5". Actually he's pretty comparable to Sidney Rice on the Al Davis "I only look at measurables" system. I'd be happy to have two Sidney Rices. Hopefully he can catch...

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Great video there Kearly. Thanks for that.

Watching the highlights it's clear that this guy has talent -- very nice hands, gets good separation ... and that leaping ability (low whistle). Very nice. There were a couple of other things that I noticed with that video as well -- things that you could say could be potential strikes against him. The first thing that I noticed was that there looked like many instances in which he didn't get both feet down inbounds on routes to the sideline. Now those 1 foot in bounds catches work in college ... but not so much in the NFL. Also, he looks very lean and lanky in that film. That led me to wondering how he does against press coverage when CB's are really in his grill. I'm guessing not that well because there were no highlights of him fighting through press coverage off the line. So that might be a reason why he struggled against some when it came to going against some of those CB's from the bigger college programs -- just bigger, stronger, faster guys. One thing's for sure, we're going to find out just how well he does against press coverage in training camp, as he's going to be going against some of the best in the league in Brandon Browner, Richard Sherman, and company. There's a lot to like from what I saw there, but I'll reserve my judgment until training camp and the preseason.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Definitely like how he grabs the ball at its highest point in a lot of those grabs, seems like he could be a nice weapon in the end zone (a la Wilsons TD pass to fitz)


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Lot's of preseason roster spots to fill. Let's see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Basis4day wrote:
Lot's of preseason roster spots to fill. Let's see what happens.

Yup. Either he makes the team or he's practice fodder for BB and Sherm. Either way we win.

Churn on you crazy roster...

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:34 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
Basis4day wrote:
Lot's of preseason roster spots to fill. Let's see what happens.

Yup. Either he makes the team or he's practice fodder for BB and Sherm. Either way we win.

Churn on you crazy roster...

That's it right there... and the churn goes on! I'll treat him like another body in the vicious cycle until he sticks.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:05 am 
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Thanks for finding that youtube video. He looks very athletic, and I don't see any harm in seeing this guy compete for a spot in training camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:47 am 
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It seems there might be a bit more there than the typical "camp fodder" as so many around here like to label. Really, how many times do we hear Schneider proclaim "We got him!" regarding run-of-the-mill camp fodder. Obviously someone they've had their eye on.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:33 am 
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LawlessHawk wrote:
It seems there might be a bit more there than the typical "camp fodder" as so many around here like to label. Really, how many times do we hear Schneider proclaim "We got him!" regarding run-of-the-mill camp fodder. Obviously someone they've had their eye on.


I agree with this line of thinking - it is also important to note that he may not have had much success with getting on the field with the Cardinals because he may not fit their scheme as well has he may fit ours.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:43 pm 
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LawlessHawk wrote:
It seems there might be a bit more there than the typical "camp fodder" as so many around here like to label. Really, how many times do we hear Schneider proclaim "We got him!" regarding run-of-the-mill camp fodder. Obviously someone they've had their eye on.


Sure, but they "had their eye on" Jameson Konz and Riccardo Lockette too. Doesn't mean everyone they target is going to come in wearing a red cape and blue PJ's. As with every signing, I'll allow myself to be cautiously optimistic and hope for a Doug Baldwin "diamond in the rough" type story... but worse case scenario; we picked up a plaything for BB and Sherm to tear to pieces.

Either way we win!

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:53 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
LawlessHawk wrote:
It seems there might be a bit more there than the typical "camp fodder" as so many around here like to label. Really, how many times do we hear Schneider proclaim "We got him!" regarding run-of-the-mill camp fodder. Obviously someone they've had their eye on.


Sure, but they "had their eye on" Jameson Konz and Riccardo Lockette too. Doesn't mean everyone they target is going to come in wearing a red cape and blue PJ's. As with every signing, I'll allow myself to be cautiously optimistic and hope for a Doug Baldwin "diamond in the rough" type story... but worse case scenario; we picked up a plaything for BB and Sherm to tear to pieces.

Either way we win!


I will say this about Williams. Over the last several year's I've silently rooted for the Cardinals to NOT suck. They were like the loveable losers you see in shows. As and Idaho Vandal Fan, a former slot WR named Max Komar was signed by AZ as was Williams. So I watched all their pre-season games. Both Max and Stephen made the roster, but there was a TON of buzz surrounding Stephen Williams. At times he looked incredible.

I'm excited for this signing. Sure it may not pan out, but it's a young player with room to grow, which is much more desireable to me than washed-up vets like TO,Bryant, and Edwards. There's only 3 WR's really locked into the this Roster The other 2-3 spots are completely up for grabs.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:01 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
LawlessHawk wrote:
It seems there might be a bit more there than the typical "camp fodder" as so many around here like to label. Really, how many times do we hear Schneider proclaim "We got him!" regarding run-of-the-mill camp fodder. Obviously someone they've had their eye on.


Sure, but they "had their eye on" Jameson Konz and Riccardo Lockette too. Doesn't mean everyone they target is going to come in wearing a red cape and blue PJ's. As with every signing, I'll allow myself to be cautiously optimistic and hope for a Doug Baldwin "diamond in the rough" type story... but worse case scenario; we picked up a plaything for BB and Sherm to tear to pieces.

Either way we win!


Agreed, for sure... like I said "a bit" more than typical camp fodder.. and that's probably reading alot into Schneider's three word statement...

Wasn't Konz our late 7th round Mr. Irrelevant a couple years ago?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:29 am 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
How is Baldwin being hurt a gimme? He got banged up good the first game and played hurt all year, but I wouldn't call him injury prone.


He was hurt all through preseason as well. He was also injured quite a bit during his Stanford years. Not the missing games type of injured, but decreasing the effectiveness injured.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Stephen Williams the replacement for Mike Williams?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Do you think that JS' excitement at picking him up may indicate that picking a WR high in the draft won't be as high a priority? Or alternatively could it mean that he and Pete have identified the position as in need of upgrading so we'll be looking for a few other guys. Personally (and it's just a gut feeling) I think Williams will be on the roster this year.


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