Comparing Harbaugh & Carroll (By Hawk Blogger)

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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Random note about Fisher; that team scares me if Bradford can step another level up, particularly with all those draft picks they have coming. Hell, their D-line already scares me. Our division might send three teams to the playoffs next year.

    Also, damned right it feels good for our division to be respected. I still want you to get blown out by the Ravens in 9 days, though. ;)


    Bradford has reached his ceiling and their secondary still sucks. They are a few pieces (and years) away from a complete team, methinks...
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  • NinerLifer wrote:
    drdiags wrote:One thing pointed out by this article regarding McCloughan, you can see that Baalke hasn't been too shabby in keeping the talent level flowing into their team:

    There is no understating the work McCloughan's successor, Trent Baalke, has done in building a Super Bowl contender. Baalke's 2011 draft produced, in order, linebacker Aldon Smith, quarterback Colin Kaepernick, cornerback Chris Culliver, running back Kendall Hunter and fullback Bruce Miller. It's comparable to the team's celebrated 1981 and 1986 drafts that helped produce, and then sustain, San Francisco's former dynasty.

    Still, 11 of the team's 22 starters were acquired when McCloughan ran the personnel department, including five of the 49ers' nine Pro Bowl selections this year: Dashon Goldson, Frank Gore, Justin Smith, Joe Staley and Patrick Willis.

    Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/01/25/513995 ... rylink=cpy



    I think the talk of their imminent demise may be premature. Unfortunately only time will tell whether the Seahawks are on the fast track and the 9ers are slipping.


    Again why would Trent replace talent that is on the field that is superior to most of those at the same position on other teams?...


    The point is not necessarily to replace the starters, but to add depth at these positions through the draft. Preferably with players who will be able to replace the current starters when they leave/retire. It is amazing the percentage of snaps the starters take, I think it is over 90% or something crazy like that.
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  • scipiobronze wrote:The point is not necessarily to replace the starters, but to add depth at these positions through the draft. Preferably with players who will be able to replace the current starters when they leave/retire. It is amazing the percentage of snaps the starters take, I think it is over 90% or something crazy like that.


    I am pretty sure that the Niners are credited with being one of the most deepest teams in the league actually, not just with players but with quality players.

    You are correct about the snaps the defense gets per game though. Our entire defense was on the field for something like 93 snaps against the Patriots which no doubt contributed to the fatigue our defense was experiencing when you guys crushed us the following week.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Random note about Fisher; that team scares me if Bradford can step another level up, particularly with all those draft picks they have coming. Hell, their D-line already scares me. Our division might send three teams to the playoffs next year.

    Also, damned right it feels good for our division to be respected. I still want you to get blown out by the Ravens in 9 days, though. ;)



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  • I understand the optimism about the Seahawks but this "the ceiling is higher" and "Carroll built his own team" stuff is shrug-worthy at this point, even if true. The Seahawks were eliminated from the playoffs, and the 49ers are playing in the Super Bowl (and were in the NFC Championship last year).
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  • Bpunk, this is a Seahawkcentric opinion on a Seahawk MB. You can shrug all you want. I'm going to assume you're a Raven fan? Good luck and hopefully your team wins the SB. We hate the ninners around here.
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  • A lot of that article is flawed because of one point. Jim Harbaugh has had only two years with his team to shape the roster. Pete Carroll has had four years. Of course more of Pete's pro bowlers were added by him than Jim's. And yes there is a lot of talent on the roster but most of the offensive talent was not responding until Jim got there. If you watch the level of sophistication on offense, you know instantly Jim is a really good coach.

    And the 49ers are young at the critical positions. Quarterback, offensive line, wide receiver, running back (hunter/james), linebacker. The area for improvement in age is really defensive line.
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  • Lets see if the infusion of talent continies, the 49ers drafted a year after Scott left, most the data had been collected by then on guys and solidified by the current regime. I expect Harbaugh like Pete had a lot of insight to the talent of the picks you chose as well being fresh out of college level coaching. The level of returns start diminishing rather quickly after the third year.

    Time will tell but we have a hell of a couple talent evaluators now in McGlophlin and Schnieder which is why I think we continue our rise, Pete and the rest of the staff being able to have a vision of how to use it is the iceing on the cake so to speak.
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  • mretrade wrote:A lot of that article is flawed because of one point. Jim Harbaugh has had only two years with his team to shape the roster. Pete Carroll has had four years....


    Pete has had 3 yrs not 4 yrs just to be clear.
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  • MeanBlueGreen wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Random note about Fisher; that team scares me if Bradford can step another level up, particularly with all those draft picks they have coming. Hell, their D-line already scares me. Our division might send three teams to the playoffs next year.

    Also, damned right it feels good for our division to be respected. I still want you to get blown out by the Ravens in 9 days, though. ;)


    Bradford has reached his ceiling and their secondary still sucks. They are a few pieces (and years) away from a complete team, methinks...

    I just heard day before yesterday that there has never been any team that Rob Ryan has been D-Coordinator for that has ever made the playoffs and that he's never had a defense ranked above #15 overall in the NFL. That does not bode well for the Lambs.

    Oh, and I agree with MBG's statement about Bradford having reached his ceiling already. Fisher's got a lot of draft picks thanks to the RGIII trade, but I think they're limited by Bradford to the point the best they'll do in the near future is like a 9-7 season.
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  • In Harbaugh's 1st year, the 49ers defense changed dramatically.

    Dante Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Navarro Bowman, Ray McDonald, and Ahmah Brooks were named starters. Chris Culliver became the 3rd corner. That's half the defense. They were the #1 D in the league that year. (Didn't even mention Aldon Smith, since he only came in rushing situations)

    Harbaugh can't build a team?
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  • My personal opinion is that Harbaugh is close to the best, if not the best, coach in the NFL. He is certainly one of the top ten in the NFL regardless and I think he rates higher than Carroll who I would also consider a very good coach.

    Harbaugh came into Stanford when it was a whipping post for the Pac-12 to beat on. He turned them into bullies that started with taking down USC when they had all their pieces and when Carroll was there (the infamous 'what's your deal?' bowl).

    I know that a lot of Seahawks fans hate SF because a lot of their fans act like idiots, but that does not mean they don't have a coach in place. He made some solid calls (including removing one of the key weaknesses of that team, the QB, which was a move that few coaches would have made. He might be a jerk on the sidelines, and in real life - but his track record says he is a hell of a coach. And what he has accomplished is as impressive if not more impressive than what Carroll did.

    Frankly, while I am excited about the prospects of the future with this team and with Wilson, I am not blind to the fact that the favorite for the Superbowl next year from the NFC almost assuredly has to be San Francisco. Even though I think we will give them a fight for the top of the NFC for years to come.

    Just as Carroll has to get credit for turning us from a middle of the road team to a contender, you have to give Harbaugh credit for going into a team that nobody could make anything work - and turn them into one of the best teams in football.
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  • I have never denied that Harbaugh is a good coach. He succeeded at USD, Stanford, and now with the 49ers. In the case of the '9ers, he had less to overcome than Pete did in Seattle because San Francisco had better talent when Jim arrived than Seattle did when Pete arrived. Both guys should be praised for getting their respective teams to achieve.

    One thing Harbaugh has not yet had to face is keeping a team successful for more than a few years. His longest stint as a head coach was his three years at Stanford. The fact he kept moving up is a credit to his coaching acumen, but it also leaves a blank spot as far as knowing how he will deal with aging players and the accompanying roster churn. That's not to say he will fail. It's just an unknown.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:You don't go from a losing season one year to 13-3 and make it to the NFCCG the next year without a great coach.


    Nobody is saying Harbaugh isn't a good or great coach, but he had already set himself up to be hated by Seahawks fans before he entered NFL coaching due to Carroll already being our coach. The whole going for 2 points while up by 5 scores at the end of the 4th quarter thing in college was unarguably classless, no 49ers fan should wonder why Seahawks fans don't like Harbaugh. We can admit he knows what the hell's doing and still hate him.

    I hate to sound at all like defending Harbaby but the going for 2 wasn't just an isolated incident. Of course, Jimmay was on the jerk end of the genesis of the bad blood. USC had a significant lead and there was less than 2 minutes so Pete did the normal thing of taking a knee to run out the clock. Harbaby calls a TO! So Carroll lines up a running play but it's a flea flicker that goes for like 60 yard TD and Harbaby is out of his mind crying foul and bad sportsmanship, even though Pete was taking a knee. If he called TO he must've wanted the ball back and if he wanted the ball back then he must've thought he had a chance to win, so Pete squished that chance right away but Jimbo didn't see it that way. That's why he went for 2, because he thought Pete had dissed him (even though he asked for it). Damn, I hate that guy! Just typing it out got me fired up.


    I've been telling people all year about the inherited talent levels and how utterly useless Nolan and Singletary had to be as coaches to have such talent and still be picking in the top half of the draft. Harbaby may not have been so immediately successful if Singletary hadn't wrangled the wills of players like Davis first, but Mike was a terrible HC. Moron Jr had a crap team, but he could have the 90s Cowboys and screw that up. The NFCW is gonna be awesome with the coach hating rivals slugging it out year to year and the rising giants in StL are gonna jump in the fight too, though without the intensity of a heated rivalry (though with the way he coaches and some of his players, there'll be bad blood). And all three can agree on one thing, AZ is the place to relieve yourself in between games with real teams.
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  • MadSweeney wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:You don't go from a losing season one year to 13-3 and make it to the NFCCG the next year without a great coach.


    Nobody is saying Harbaugh isn't a good or great coach, but he had already set himself up to be hated by Seahawks fans before he entered NFL coaching due to Carroll already being our coach. The whole going for 2 points while up by 5 scores at the end of the 4th quarter thing in college was unarguably classless, no 49ers fan should wonder why Seahawks fans don't like Harbaugh. We can admit he knows what the hell's doing and still hate him.

    I hate to sound at all like defending Harbaby but the going for 2 wasn't just an isolated incident. Of course, Jimmay was on the jerk end of the genesis of the bad blood. USC had a significant lead and there was less than 2 minutes so Pete did the normal thing of taking a knee to run out the clock. Harbaby calls a TO! So Carroll lines up a running play but it's a flea flicker that goes for like 60 yard TD and Harbaby is out of his mind crying foul and bad sportsmanship, even though Pete was taking a knee. If he called TO he must've wanted the ball back and if he wanted the ball back then he must've thought he had a chance to win, so Pete squished that chance right away but Jimbo didn't see it that way. That's why he went for 2, because he thought Pete had dissed him (even though he asked for it). Damn, I hate that guy! Just typing it out got me fired up.


    I've been telling people all year about the inherited talent levels and how utterly useless Nolan and Singletary had to be as coaches to have such talent and still be picking in the top half of the draft. Harbaby may not have been so immediately successful if Singletary hadn't wrangled the wills of players like Davis first, but Mike was a terrible HC. Moron Jr had a crap team, but he could have the 90s Cowboys and screw that up. The NFCW is gonna be awesome with the coach hating rivals slugging it out year to year and the rising giants in StL are gonna jump in the fight too, though without the intensity of a heated rivalry (though with the way he coaches and some of his players, there'll be bad blood). And all three can agree on one thing, AZ is the place to relieve yourself in between games with real teams.

    Wrong game. That was the UCLA game.
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