The real reason Matt Flynn's trade value will probably suck

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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Not a chance in hell KC trades the first pick in round 3 for Flynn and I don't see the second pick in round 4 either. Another team may trade a mid to late 4th rounder for him but if he does go to KC as I think, either it's their 5th or they trade up somewhere in the 4th and then trade that pick to Seattle. However, you may be right in that John and Pete just don't trade him if the offer is in that (lower) range. Do keep in mind though that even if all they get is something like KC's 5th, it really frees up some cap space (as has been documented on these boards by several folks) and that alone may be motivation enough to move him for what some people will perceive as below market value.


    It's a good problem to have. We don't HAVE to trade him. If the offers right, then he'll be traded, if not, no big deal.....still have one of the best backups in the league.

    Flynn's been 1st class since he's been here, but I betcha his agent is going to start applying pressure on the FO to trade him. Not that that'll affect John and Pete's decision, but I bet we start to hear rumblings from Flynn's camp the closer we get to the draft.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Now what Seattle gets for Flynn, that's the $64,000 question. I'm predicting their 5th which I believe is the first pick in that round. I think KC leads off rounds 1,3,5,7. And this scenario assumes they still own their 5th rounder btw.


    I don't think John and Pete would trade Flynn for only a 5th. I think KC would have to offer something AT LEAST in the 3rd round ballpark.

    I could definitely see Seattle and Kansas City (or another team with a high draft pick) swapping 3rd round picks with Kansas City (or the other team) getting Flynn as compensation for moving down in that round.

    Using the NFL Draft Pick Trade Chart, if KC and Seattle swapped 3rd Round Picks and with KC getting Flynn, the Hawks compensation for trading Flynn would be the #31 pick in the 3rd Round... which I believe would be fair compensation for Flynn.

    Doing the same in the 2nd Round would equate to the #4 pick in the 3rd Round, which I believe is too high for Flynn... and doing the same in the 4th Round would equate to the #21 pick in the 4th Round, which I believe to be too low for Flynn... so swapping 3rd Round picks it is. :th2thumbs:
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  • I don't really care what Flynns trade value is, and in fact, it appears we can't/won't get anything for him. I would ask him to restructure if there are no trade partners wanting to start him.
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  • Largent80 wrote:I don't really care what Flynns trade value is, and in fact, it appears we can't/won't get anything for him. I would ask him to restructure if there are no trade partners wanting to start him.


    You don't care that we could get a 3rd-round pick or something like that for him? I sure do. Our front office is money with those mid-late picks. They'd probably draft the next Justin Smith and everyone would hate the pick because they all thought he was a scrub at the time, or something.
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  • Many of you here really depreciate the talent level Kaepernick has!
    Why?
    Is it that he has done all this in only 9 starts?
    Is it that he has won 2 playoff games while setting a QB record in the first and then going 16-21 in the second while never flinching after the Niners got down 17 points?
    is it the tatoos?

    I get why you all love your QB Wilson, nice kid, smart, talented, well spoken and he won games for you while enjoying a very good defense and a better run game.
    Kaepernick is the same beast...nice kid, smart, talented and well spoken(deflects praise to teammates, just watch the playoff pressers) and he won games for us...None other than Patrick Willi says that Kaepernick is the hardest working player on the team, that Willis shows up early and Kaepernick is already there working out. Give the talented kid some due...we both have bright futures at the QB position imho!
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  • As long as Alex Smith is available (which he WILL be),.........

    ....Flynn's value will be secondary.
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  • Mtjhoyas wrote:
    Winterfell wrote:I'm curious as to what your reasons are for Russell Wilson being a rare QB while Colin Kaepernick is not? I personally see both QBs as having the tools and the skills.

    I personally think the demand for the traditional, big and tall, strong-armed pocket QB won't go down because of the emergence of mobile QBs. Just looking at the Super Bowl, on the other side is Joe Flacco (which is as traditional of a pocket passer as you can get) and he also played phenomenally to lead the Ravens through the playoffs to the Super Bowl.


    Not to speak for Kearly, but my honest opinion of Kaepernick vs RW is that one has ungodly tools and a HC who knows how to take full advantage of those tools without making him experience the true rigors of playing QB (ie consistent reads/progressions). RW, on the otherhand IMO, along with great tools, is more adept at making reads/progressions.

    I will probably get flamed for this, but Harbaugh has made life so ridiculously easy for his QBs, dating back to his San Diego days with Josh Johnson. Think about it, name one Harbaugh QB that hasn't been really efficient? Why is this?

    As much as I hate the man, he is brilliant with play design/call. There's a reason he has significant designed movement pre-snap. It basically makes the defense show their entire hand of what they are doing. A simple check optimizes the play call. Furthermore, I have paid very close attention to Kaepernick, and during the ATL game, I can honestly say I never saw him move off of a first read the entire game. Even slow developing plays (like the big V Davis catch), he was simply eyeing him the whole way, and the play design made the crossing routes rub together, allowing Davis unnatural separation on the play.

    I really don't want to discredit Kaepernick as he is a fantastic physical talent (and by all means a smart kid), but I've noticed more often than not, if the first read breaks down, he's a totally different player. And like I said earlier, name a Harbaugh QB who has struggled with efficiency?


    I don't think Kaepernick will be as good next season as he was this season. I might be wrong, but I think he's a one year wonder.
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  • Ninerguy wrote:Many of you here really depreciate the talent level Kaepernick has!
    Why?
    Is it that he has done all this in only 9 starts?
    Is it that he has won 2 playoff games while setting a QB record in the first and then going 16-21 in the second while never flinching after the Niners got down 17 points?
    is it the tatoos?

    I get why you all love your QB Wilson, nice kid, smart, talented, well spoken and he won games for you while enjoying a very good defense and a better run game.
    Kaepernick is the same beast...nice kid, smart, talented and well spoken(deflects praise to teammates, just watch the playoff pressers) and he won games for us...None other than Patrick Willi says that Kaepernick is the hardest working player on the team, that Willis shows up early and Kaepernick is already there working out. Give the talented kid some due...we both have bright futures at the QB position imho!



    Kaepernick is good and isn't a fluke, but he isn't yet as good as his numbers. He's a lot like Alex Smith- a beneficiary of maybe the best football coach in the world. Kaepernick locks onto receivers, runs a simple offense, and has struggled under adversity.

    Kaepernick's results are nice, and he might be ultra awesome down the road if he grows his skill base, but in 2012 I thought he was a fairly obvious mechanical QB- he was basically the QB John Schneider hoped he'd be getting when he traded for Charlie Whitehurst.

    Worth mentioning- Seattle liked Kaepernick in 2011 but passed on him at #25 despite having a black hole at the position. In 2012, the same GM wanted to burn his #12 pick on Russell Wilson before his scouting department talked him down. He could have had Kaepernick, but passed. For James Carpenter. John Schneider is well known to be thinking at least one year ahead with all his drafts, it's possible that he had his eye on Wilson even as he was making a decision on Kaepernick/Dalton.

    mretrade wrote:Oh and since when does 6 feet 4 230 pound quarterbacks who can also run a 4.5 with a strong arm grow on trees?


    Almost every year you have a QB like Kaepernick sitting in the draft after round 1. In 2007, it was Troy Smith. In 2008, it was Josh Johnson and Dennis Dixon. In 2009, it was Nate Davis. In 2010, it was Joe Webb. Last year it was Colin Kaepernick and Terrelle Pryor. This year it's EJ Manuel. Next year it will be Logan Thomas. A ways after that, it will be Marcus Mario'ta.

    Pretty much every year you can find at least one of them. A lot of them failed because they were not put in the same kind of mechanical QB offense that Kaepernick currently thrives in. Teams are wising up, and discovering that there really isn't such a thing as a college QB anymore. If he has a college skillset, build him a college offense.
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  • Largent80 wrote:I don't really care what Flynns trade value is, and in fact, it appears we can't/won't get anything for him. I would ask him to restructure if there are no trade partners wanting to start him.


    There's no way in hell he'd restructure. If he refuses to restructure, then he gets cut, which is what he wants so he can go try and start somewhere else.
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  • Largent80 wrote:I don't really care what Flynns trade value is, and in fact, it appears we can't/won't get anything for him. I would ask him to restructure if there are no trade partners wanting to start him.

    That MIGHT be true, but it does make you wonder why Schneider is saying he's in no hurry to just trade him away for a bag of peanuts eh?
    Why did Washington draft RGIII and then Kirk Cousins?, their styles of play are NOTHING alike.
    Maybe Schneider wants to KEEP a Quarterback that offers the same kind of change-up to throw at Defenses should Wilson miss some time (GOD forbid)
    Everyone assumes that the Seahawks should look for someone that can run the same system that RW has grown, but that's not really being realistic if you think about it,,Who the hell would be ABLE to replicate Wilson?,,NOBODY
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  • kearly wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:The reason? RG3.


    RG3 was a walking injury before he ever played a down in the NFL. That's why I viewed him as only a top 10 pick instead of the once in a generation type that everyone wanted to make him out to be last year.

    Kaepernick and Wilson both have a long history of being durable. Cam Newton is durable. EJ Manuel is durable. Even RG3 could up his shelf life if he learns how to protect his body.

    I don't think this is a fad. It's not the wildcat, it's not a wrinkle in a playbook. It will become the new normal NFL offense until an even better offense takes it's place down the road. The whole point of the point guard style is that it forces defenses to defend more threats. Plus, it's really hard to defend a QB who is good at running and passing. This has been true for decades. Nothing gimmicky about that.

    Even before the read option wave hit the NFL, evaluators were over-rating QB mobility going back forever (it was the main reason Tom Brady reached the 6th round, and a big reason why nearly half the GMs in the NFL preferred Sanchez over Stafford). Teams have always coveted mobile QBs, but finding good ones who could also throw is hard to do. But with this new system, it makes the life of a QB so easy that it's a lot easier to find those mobile QBs who can also be effective passers. Colin Kaepernick just gashed the crap out of the Falcons without running almost at all. It was because that whole time the Falcons had to waste a defender just to spy Kaepernick as a runner.



    I think that RW is a QB that can run. The other cant pass...Kapernick has very little touch and Has that "I'm invincible". Huge head thing. Meaning he's going to take a shot and be done, he's got that cocky attitude where I think he will start to get targeted if you will

    Those teams had better have 2-3 good backups

    That's the challenge going forward I beleive...going to have to cycle through qb's (if injury happens...RG 3)..so now to keep some talent you have to pay...then you start to get qb controversy. Back up says "I can play!! Then the chemistry starts to get all effed up. Distraction is not what teams need.

    Cam is 6-6 260...and can't throw. They are in the bottom of the league...here is a trivia question. Who's his backup?

    These defensive guys are going to start getting tired of chasing these guys!! Someone wo blast one of them with a concussion...and they won't be running so much

    Bottom line...if they are passers first and can get out like RW. Different story. He can bomb it around so...
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  • kearly wrote:
    Kaepernick is good and isn't a fluke, but he isn't yet as good as his numbers. He's a lot like Alex Smith- a beneficiary of maybe the best football coach in the world. Kaepernick locks onto receivers, runs a simple offense, and has struggled under adversity.


    Wow Kearly, you really missed on this part above....you actually reinforce my point that you guys undervalue Kap.
    Kap consistently hits 2nd and 3rd receivers, UNLESS the 1st option is open and by harbs offensive design that happens quite often.

    Next, "runs a simple offense"??? Thats actually funny! Harbaughs offense is anything but simple and Kap(100+ plays at their disposal each week (quote from OC Roman), comes to the LOS at every snap with 2 plays called and he has decide which play is best based on the defense OR audible to a completely new play which he has done for some big plays since he became the starter. so easy?...please

    Lastly, "struggled under adversity"...not as funny as the simple offense but quite near.
    So, 1st start is against Chicago on MNF and he killed em! how about rolling into NO and beating Brees in primetime, what abot defeating the patriots in Foxboro in december for the first time in 10 yrs or taking out GB and Rogers in his 8th start and doing it in record setting fashion, or getting down by 17 points in Atlanta in the NFCCG and remaining cool and leading his team with his arm to a berth in the Superbowl. He struggles pretty well I think.

    reg season stats:
    Regular Season
    136 compl., 62.4%, 1814 yds, 8.32 yds per, 10 TDs/3 ints and a 98.2 rating

    In the 2013 playoffs Kap is 33/52 for 499 yards and 3 Tds and 1 int...plus over 200 yds rushing

    So if that is your definition of a QB running a simple offense while locking onto 1 receiver and struggling with adversity then Keep it up Kaepernick!!!
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  • Why are we talking about the 49ers on a Seahawks site? Are there no 49ers sites for that?
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  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Why are we talking about the 49ers on a Seahawks site? Are there no 49ers sites for that?

    It's amazing that they sift through threads just in case there might be a 49er mention to argue with.
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  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Why are we talking about the 49ers on a Seahawks site? Are there no 49ers sites for that?


    I don't know. Apparently it must have something tangential to do with Matt Flynn.
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  • just responding to Kearly and his thoughts on Kaepernick...whats so confusing?
    This is a NFL pro football website, we can discuss all NFL related information I would presume. Plus, I live here in the PNW and have these conversations literally daily with hawk fans, if you dont like my thoughts you dont have to read them right.
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  • Ninerguy wrote:just responding to Kearly and his thoughts on Kaepernick...whats so confusing?
    This is a NFL pro football website, we can discuss all NFL related information I would presume. Plus, I live here in the PNW and have these conversations literally daily with hawk fans, if you dont like my thoughts you dont have to read them right.


    This thread is about Matt Flynn and his value as a Seahawk. If you'd like to talk about Kaepernick, go to the NFL forum. Or, dare I boldly suggest, a 49ers forum.

    I strongly suggest you don't come in here and tell us to bend the way our board works. Don't hijack our threads to talk about your players.
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  • And boom goes the dynamite.
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  • The only reason the Redskin's season didn't tank when RG3 got hurt was that Shanahan is a damn smart dude who drafted Cousins at a value. If they don't have a good backup QB, they wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

    The only thing this will do to trade value is maybe up the value of backup QBs. I can see mid round QBs being reached on because if you're going to run the read option, you're going to need 2 good QBs on the roster. Cam Newton and maybe Kaepernick are different because they're such big guys and they can take the abuse....but Newton regressed this year (mainly due to intangibles). Even then, guys like Big Ben are also large guys, but Ben is always dinged up because he holds the ball too long and takes too many hits; hits that aren't nearly as violent as ones he'd sustain in the open field.

    I think Flynn's trade value will be fine...maybe 2nd round or so. There aren't any good QBs in this draft; I'd rather reach on a guy that has NFL seasoning and has shown in flashes that he can play than a raw rookie that you know you're also reaching on. PLus, looking at how Wilson played this year will also help Flynn's trade value; he no longer lost his job to a rookie he couldn't beat out, he got beat out by one of the best QBs in the NFL in his emerging season.
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