Matt Flynn expected to be cut?

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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:59 am
  • OK...recognizing that I am the new guy with zero credibility here...

    I am at least as big a RW fan as PC, and have been since about 1/2 way through his first game for my alma mater. One of the many things that impress me about RW is how he does what he does and avoids the big hits. That said, in my just over 50 years as a player, coach (kid ball) and fan, I have seen that anyone can get hurt...and the more you put yourself out there, the more chance of that happening.

    My point is that, while RW is clearly the guy, I believe that (especially after years in a GB system that has a pretty good history with QBs) Flynn is one of the top backups in the league and is better than many starters out there. It really wouldn't take a lightning strike...especially with the ever increasingly more stringent concussion protocols mandated by the NFL...for the Hawks to need someone who could step in for a half, or a game, or a few games and keep the team in competition while awaiting Russ' return. How many would like to see the Hawks forced to do what Washington did and either risk the future of their franchise QB by playing him hurt or make do with a some guy who has never played a game in the NFL? Who would one like to see backing up Russ this next year rather than Flynn?

    To me, for a difference of about $2M-$3M to a team with a ton of cap space, Flynn seems a good enough insurance policy for at least one more year. I really cannot imaging him getting cut for no compensation.

    Now, if there were a trade offer that would produce a big, fast WR with fantastic hands...that might be a different story :)
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:09 am
  • To be fair to Matt, let's remind ourselves of Russell's preseason numbers before being named starter: 35 of 52 (67.3 percent) for 464 yards, five touchdowns and a league-leading 119.4 QB rating.

    Flynn didn't get beat out by a guy who played like a third round rookie in the preseason. He got beat out by a guy who played like the best QB in the NFL. I'm pretty sure fans of the Chiefs, Jags, Cards and Jets would see Flynn as at least a viable two-to-three year solution at QB, much the same way Seattle fans viewed him last year. Not saying he's worth a ton, but his name certainly has infinitely more cachet around the league than that of Tarvaris Jackson last year.

    The Texans traded two second-round picks for Matt Schaub in 2007. The Seahawks gave up a third-round pick for Charlie Whitehurst in 2010.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:16 am
  • The market for Flynn this year Might be better but Alex Smith is also available, that is another factor to account for. If we couldn't squirrel money away now with Flynn gone for future spending then I would keep him but the reason our cap is in the situation it is in is we are paying way below market value for our production of our secondary, left tackle, and LB unit, eventually we are going to need to lock up these players like Thomas and Sherman who are playing at All-Pro levels but earning way under market value for their contributions.

    I would simply take our young drafted players over a FA backup QB when it comes down to it. I like Flynn but he lost the job, and after the Patriots game, no way he was getting it back. Cutting Flynn at least saves us money in the future, trading him would be best as that money goes completely off the books and I would take draft position, not even a pick, for Flynn. Maybe even a trade where we get a depth player like Jennings for McDonald or something like that. I think we are still in the talent acquisition business and any way to save for more younger talent the better. Only way he stays is if we shorten the contract/renegotiate, IMO.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:21 am
  • HawkWow wrote:People call Flynn "a career back-up" like he went from team to team, never able to secure a starting slot no matter how badly those teams expected him to start. How many QBs in this league would beat out Rodgers? After Brady's most recent performance, I'd say the answer to that question is... zero.

    Now, how many QBs in this league could beat out Wilson? I'm sure he's better today than he was when named the starter, but how much better? Obviously JS and PC saw something in Wilson....and they were obviously correct.

    The majority of posters in here have proclaimed there is not one QB in the league they would trade RW for. I am probably in that camp as well.

    So, what we know about Flynn is that he has excelled when called upon (vs. NE and Detroit) and got beat out in Seattle's camp by what many apparently believe to be the best QB in the world. I'm not saying Flynn's worthy of a 1st rounder, but I do believe an asterisk belongs next to the description of "career back-up". YMMV.

    Exactly!... Imagine if the packers let Aaron Rogers move on because they decided to continue on with Farve and he wen't to a team that drafted an amazing rookie qb that could easily be a top 5 qb in the league, so he didn't get a chance to start there either. In that senerio Rogers would have been a "career-backup" as well. Does that mean he is not a good qb? Sometimes you just get put in the wrong situations in life.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:31 am
  • pehawk wrote:
    CANHawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:It's okay to attack posters not in the country. At least, thats what Les said.


    Hell yeah! Let's gang up on the foreigners!


    You'd like that wouldn't you, Air Supply?

    I'm tired of these LAZY, know-nuttin, freeloading foreigners clogging OUR boards and bandwidth to spread their Bearded Colt McCoy hate. Yeah, I know that statement will ruffle the feathers of Rockhawk who encourages such isht with his "screenname amnesty" program, but someone had to say it. I want my daughter to grow up on a board free of such hate and rhetoric. Not to mention my daughters right to the bandwidth and OP's they're greedily taking for themselves.


    Hell yeah! I hate foreigners and Air Supply! Def Leppard too! Lazy Irish potato farmers the lot of em! Loverboy rules! Mike Reno autographed headbands for everyone!!
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:42 am
  • yeah i just can't see him getting cut. as far as i know the hawks already have 18 million or something like that in free cap space and I'm pretty sure Matt Flynn is only due guaranteed 2 million next year unless he starts so that's not a bad price to be paying for a solid back up
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:47 am
  • DavidSeven wrote:To be fair to Matt, let's remind ourselves of Russell's preseason numbers before being named starter: 35 of 52 (67.3 percent) for 464 yards, five touchdowns and a league-leading 119.4 QB rating.

    Flynn didn't get beat out by a guy who played like a third round rookie in the preseason. He got beat out by a guy who played like the best QB in the NFL.


    But that still doesn't say anything about Flynn. It just leaves us with no conclusion.

    Fans may see Flynn as an option, but I doubt coaches would. He just doesn't have a very exciting profile. Kansas City and Jacksonville, maybe. Rex Ryan isn't going to go for another physically limited QB. The Cards are a division rival and won't be giving us much.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:49 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:To be fair to Matt, let's remind ourselves of Russell's preseason numbers before being named starter: 35 of 52 (67.3 percent) for 464 yards, five touchdowns and a league-leading 119.4 QB rating.

    Flynn didn't get beat out by a guy who played like a third round rookie in the preseason. He got beat out by a guy who played like the best QB in the NFL.


    But that still doesn't say anything about Flynn. It just leaves us with no conclusion.

    Fans may see Flynn as an option, but I doubt coaches would. He just doesn't have a very exciting profile. Kansas City and Jacksonville, maybe. Rex Ryan isn't going to go for another physically limited QB. The Cards are a division rival and won't be giving us much.


    What are you talking about? I read on this very board that they're giving us Fitz AND a 3rd round pick!
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:08 pm
  • Pure speculation and 100% inaccurate.

    Schneider just said, last week, that they like Flynn and are okay with the money and have no reason to trade. Said they were open to trades, but were happy with him and thought he was the best out there in the backup role. He said the total money for both quarterbacks was well below league average and they thought they had a great situation.

    So yeah, that report is absurd. About as dumb and just plain wrong as all the reports that we were trading Flynn for Sanchez.

    I've learned to stop listening to traditional sports media about anything because they just make stuff up. Jason Cole is good sometimes but this rumor just makes him look dumb. I'm actually embarrassed for him.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:11 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    sutz wrote:Oh, and show me where in the rule book or the CBA it says your backup must make less than a starter.

    :229031_shrug:


    It doesn't, but when the back-up earns over ten (???) times more than your Pro-Bowl starter then it's time to consider that situation. We don't need to spend that much money on a guy who wears a cap and a big coat on game day.


    He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB. It's an unprecedented, special circumstance. In a perfect world Russ would be making $15M a year and then we'd have an issue with payroll at the QB position. As it is right now our total payroll at QB is extremely low for the talent and depth we have right now. Flynn has a significant value in this league and for the Hawks to throw that value away and getting nothing return would be ludicrous and something we shouldn't expect Schneider to do.

    If we can't get a 4th rounder or a solid experienced player in return, you keep him.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:14 pm
  • I have a theory about Matt Flynn. I think Dallas will pick him up to compete with Tony Romo and he will win that job. I think there is pressure in Dallas and they are finally figuring out that Romo is an interception machine, I think Jerry Jones is going to do something about it and he may do something crazy that none of us would ever imagine. No, i did not read it anywhere, it is something I came to conclusion based on situations.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:21 pm
  • Yeah, so about a dozen teams are looking for a quarterback, and the only real options this offseason will be Barkley, Geno and Alex Smith.

    But ya know what our great GM should do? Let a starter walk so he can save, what? 5-6m in cap space?

    If we cut Flynn, it would be time to go shopping for a new GM. Thank God Schneider isn't nearly as stupid as these "analysts".
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:23 pm
  • Coug_Hawk08 wrote:Where is the emote smiley shedding a little tear? Or playing a tiny violin? Come on man.

    Agree to disagree. I don't think it's credible, or that it really means a dang thing. You are obviously an advocate of his thoughts and are pushing it on others, that's fine. I think the attempts to defend cole are as weak as the arguments provided for releasing Flynn. Good thing is, we get to see how it all plays out.

    I wonder what incarceratedbob has to say about this topic? #beleiveeverythingontwitter


    I have no problems with a verbal joust. If you want to go down that road, start a thread of a similar nature in the shack and we can say what we want to each other. I'm not going to risk getting banned by responding to a needless 'dense' remark. It was unnecessary and just risks turning the thread into a slanging match.

    I am neither an advocate or a sceptic of Jason Cole. He put something on Twitter which appears to be sourced. I've started a thread about it so we can talk about something other than whether Russell Wilson should be appointed offensive coordinator when he retires or whether Gus Bradley having a 90 minute conversation with the Eagles cost us a playoff game. His information may be accurate or inaccurate. I think he's probably got a point here and he's not the first to make similar sentiments - Adam Schefter says he thinks the market will be cold too.

    I'm willing to be wrong, I can see other arguments. But this isn't getting thrown around for nothing. It could happen. And just because Cole hasn't put 'per sources' in his tweet doesn't make a great deal of difference.

    Cole's a journalist for an established brand and he has sources. He's not some guy who lives in his mother's basement who tweets absolute garbage 100% of the time (Incareceratedbob). He might be wrong on this one. But he could be right. I'm prepared for any scenario when it comes to Flynn's future. I suspect some people aren't, and they might be in for a surprise.


    CrimsonWazzu wrote:He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB.


    The guy has two starts in his career. We have no idea if he's a starting calibre NFL QB.

    HansGruber wrote:Yeah, so about a dozen teams are looking for a quarterback, and the only real options this offseason will be Barkley, Geno and Alex Smith.



    There's also Tyler Wilson, Mike Glennon, Ryan Nassib, Ryan Mallett (possible trade) and Michael Vick (I wouldn't but someone probably will).

    Despite what some people have suggested, this is quite a good draft for QB's. Nobody of Luck and Griffin's standards, but this'll be a better class than 2011 where four went in the top 15 picks.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:37 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:I think people need to be more prepared than they think for this happening.

    There are obvious benefits to having extra cap room as discussed, plus he's due $5.25m this year and $6.25m the next. And any team that trades for Flynn will be stuck paying that salary to a 28-year-old with two career starts.

    There's a very GOOD reason that some of us fans believe that Flynn has more value than you believe he has, and OUR beliefs are validated by the lucritive contract that Schneider has offered this kid.
    Not a single Quarterback on our roster could have beaten out Russell Wilson for the starting job, and just because he couldn't, doesn't mean that Matt Flynn isn't capable of out performing about 60% of the Quarterbacks around the League.
    I don't believe we are over valuing Matt Flynn, just countering some asertions that he's cannon fodder.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    CrimsonWazzu wrote:He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB.


    The guy has two starts in his career. We have no idea if he's a starting calibre NFL QB.


    Apparently John Schneider believes he's "a starting calibre NFL QB". Or is he also full of it?
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:49 pm
  • Barkley, Geno, Alex Smith, Tyler Wilson, Mike Glennon, Ryan Nassib, Ryan Mallett, and Michael Vick

    Aside from TJack, which of the above QBs could be a solid #2 on opening day in our offense without needing a lot of snaps during the offseason? Flynn's familiarity with our offense makes Russell Wilson better (more reps), and anything we can do to make Wilson better is worth spending a lot on at this point in his career.

    What is Flynn's Wins Above Replacement vs. a guy like Joe Webb?
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm
  • pehawk wrote:I dont appreciate Scott equating his inside source ability to "dick". And, you cant be Cole, because, well, I am already. Oh, and Miami kept Moore, he was on their roster last year (reason 1,345 why Miami never wanted Flynn that English will deny).

    English got taken for London Bridge (British jokes!!!!) here, but thats okay, we still love him.

    One request, from now on can we refer to Matt Flynn as THE Bearded Coly McCoy?

    My bad on Moore, I was mixing him and Henne up. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:53 pm
  • Watch your mouth; Henne is to me what Grossman is to you. Eventually, the two will meet in the AFL Bowl, and we'll see which one of us is right.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:59 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Watch your mouth; Henne is to me what Grossman is to you. Eventually, the two will meet in the AFL Bowl, and we'll see which one of us is right.

    Grossman IS my great white whale. Henne is your pathetic little minnow.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:04 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:To be fair to Matt, let's remind ourselves of Russell's preseason numbers before being named starter: 35 of 52 (67.3 percent) for 464 yards, five touchdowns and a league-leading 119.4 QB rating.

    Flynn didn't get beat out by a guy who played like a third round rookie in the preseason. He got beat out by a guy who played like the best QB in the NFL.


    But that still doesn't say anything about Flynn. It just leaves us with no conclusion.

    Fans may see Flynn as an option, but I doubt coaches would. He just doesn't have a very exciting profile. Kansas City and Jacksonville, maybe. Rex Ryan isn't going to go for another physically limited QB. The Cards are a division rival and won't be giving us much.

    If you're saying "a Physically limited QB" to mean that he's not up to Russell Wilson's physically expansive abilities? then that would also tag about 95% of the QB's in the League :16:
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:08 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    CrimsonWazzu wrote:He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB.


    The guy has two starts in his career. We have no idea if he's a starting calibre NFL QB.


    Apparently John Schneider believes he's "a starting calibre NFL QB". Or is he also full of it?



    Well, he IS an NFL GM. So that means that nearly every time he's speaking to any member of the media, he's feeling them at least a little bull. :mrgreen:
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:20 pm
  • Another point. Right now the cap is flat, but it will go up in the future, and the teams" WILL" spend basically 90% of their free/cap money every year. Rollover in that instance just guarantees you wind up spending more.

    Many here subscribe to the plan that we should find a backup more like Wilson. RW is unique! Even RG3 is not a clone. Close perhaps. Many bring up Portis. He could perhaps be 40% RW.

    I respect English for his analysis and pointers, however, when it comes to Flynn, it seems to me Rob is wearing blinders.

    Simply because RW fell to us, one way or another, and perhaps winding up a 3rd rould pick drives him more than any of us know, seems to me our team would have still made the playoffs with Flynn as our Qb. Would our games look different, certainly! This Qb debate between Flynn and Wilson is equal to the chicken or the egg first debate.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:24 pm
  • Am I crazy to think Flynn has more upside than Alex Smith? Obviously, Smith has proven he can thrive in a perfect situation, but what are his game-managing ways going to do for teams like Kansas City or Jacksonville? I feel like the mystery surrounding Flynn's true abilities should benefit him here.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 pm
  • DavidSeven wrote:Am I crazy to think Flynn has more upside than Alex Smith? Obviously, Smith has proven he can thrive in a perfect situation, but what are his game-manaing ways going to do for teams like Kansas City or Jacksonville?

    No, not crazy. Alex has always been a terrible red zone QB.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:33 pm
  • 2012 Matt Flynn:
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    I can't believe we don't want to keep this guy around FOREVER? Who else could throw for 1000 yards in 5 years? WHO!!!!?!?!?!!
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:35 pm
  • What if the Falcons had managed to score and beat the 49ers at the end of the game last Sunday? They'd be going to the Super Bowl with a QB who is injured. Would he heal up in time? If not, would he heal up enough that he could play injured but still get the job done? Would they have to go with their backup, and who IS their backup?

    If John and company feel they can afford to keep Matt, they will do so. If not, they'll try to shop him. Cutting him would be a last resort--not impossible, but definitely further down the list of possibilities.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:56 pm
  • In my book there are at least eight teams that will be (or should be) looking for an upgrade at QB.

    They include the Chiefs, the Jags, the Raiders, the Eagles, the Browns, the Cardinals, the Bills and the Jets... and that is the draft order in the first round with the exception of the Lions who pick at #5.

    I am of the opinion that at least two of those eight teams will have an interest in Flynn "at the right price".

    I believe that the Hawks will trade Flynn on draft day to one of those eight teams... and it could go down as either swapping picks in the same round... likely no earlier than the third round.... or it could go down with a swap coupled with a draft pick if the swap is in a later round... like the 5th or 6th.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:04 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:Apparently John Schneider believes he's "a starting calibre NFL QB". Or is he also full of it?


    Well in that case he also believed Charlie Whitehurst was a starting calibre QB.

    JS is a fantastic GM, but he's not invincible.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:14 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:Am I crazy to think Flynn has more upside than Alex Smith? Obviously, Smith has proven he can thrive in a perfect situation, but what are his game-manaing ways going to do for teams like Kansas City or Jacksonville?

    No, not crazy. Alex has always been a terrible red zone QB.


    In the three games where Flynn played significant snaps prior to signing with Seattle, he was... not great. Then again, there's not a lot of evidence, really.

    Against the Lions in 2010 when he took over for Rodgers mid-game, he had only one trip to the red zone:

    2 plays, 2 attempts, 0 completions, 1 INT

    Against the Patriots in 2010, when he was the starter, he had 5 trips into the red zone:

    18 plays, 5 runs, 2 sacks (one where he fumbled the ball away to end the game), 11 attempts, 5 completions, 2 TDs

    Against the Lions in 2011, when he was the starter, he had 3 trips into the end zone:

    10 plays, 2 runs, 8 attempts, 5 completions, 2 TDs

    ---

    While there is clear evidence that Flynn's play in the red zone improved with each opportunity to start, I wouldn't yet call red zone play a "strength." I'd still consider it an unknown. What is clear is that at least in the famous 480/6 game, Flynn benefited a lot from the big play. For a team to score 45 points offensively and yet only reach the red zone 3 times in a game is pretty incredible.

    I don't have the time to track each of Smith's plays in the red zone right now. Maybe I'll investigate that this evening.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:16 pm
  • seedhawk wrote:Another point. Right now the cap is flat, but it will go up in the future, and the teams" WILL" spend basically 90% of their free/cap money every year. Rollover in that instance just guarantees you wind up spending more.
    .


    Except the cap won't really go up for awhile based on the new CBA. Technically you are right but I don't count an extra million as going up (in this case now if it was my salary I would :D)

    "As a review, the 2012 official league-wide cap is $120 million. In 2013, that number is expected to grow only to $121 million, with 2014 at $122 million and a modest bump to $125 million in 2015"

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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:43 pm
  • Just realized something -- except for KC does it really matter if we expect to cut Flynn?

    If we cut him he would hardly get past the first team in the draft so KC would pick him up if actually like him. So the other 7 teams that needs a qb would still have to trade for him if they like him and think one team ahead of them on the waiver wire likes Flynn as well.

    Don't expect us to cut him regardless
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:46 pm
  • seahawks08 wrote:I have a theory about Matt Flynn. I think Dallas will pick him up to compete with Tony Romo and he will win that job. I think there is pressure in Dallas and they are finally figuring out that Romo is an interception machine, I think Jerry Jones is going to do something about it and he may do something crazy that none of us would ever imagine. No, i did not read it anywhere, it is something I came to conclusion based on situations.



    I'm on the other side of this argument cause I think Dallas needs to get Romo some help. Anytime you force your guy to throw for 446 yards in a losing effort it seems to me he's doing his part.

    The owner there on the other hand seems to be the one holding them back but we don't need a Jerry Jones type cause he can't catch a football worth a shit either and damn sure isn't a defensive genius either.

    what he is is offensive,,,,,,,to anyone that knows how to build a football team.

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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:00 pm
  • You guys can bang your head all you want but I would like to keep Flynn....cap be rammed
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:03 pm
  • Dallas doesn't have the cap room
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:08 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote: He might be wrong on this one. But he could be right. I'm prepared for any scenario when it comes to Flynn's future. I suspect some people aren't, and they might be in for a surprise.


    CrimsonWazzu wrote:He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB.


    The guy has two starts in his career. We have no idea if he's a starting calibre NFL QB.





    The lack of starts is always a fair point, but he's certainly been a victim of circumstance. Backup to a guy who is well on his way to a HOF career, and then gets totally blindsided by a 3rd round phenom. He has all the tools, and certainly would be an upgrade for 6 or 7 teams right now that need a competent quarterback.

    It may very well come down to nobody willing to give anything up to take Matt Flynn and his current contract because they don't see the value there....which ultimately means that Schneider and Carroll see a lot more in him than others do....which is, from what we've already learned early and often, par for the course.

    I do disagree about the class of QB's this year. It's just not very good, which in turn brings a marginally higher value to Flynn.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:14 pm
  • Face it guys, Flynn's getting cut. He's just no good.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:16 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Apparently John Schneider believes he's "a starting calibre NFL QB". Or is he also full of it?


    Well in that case he also believed Charlie Whitehurst was a starting calibre QB.

    JS is a fantastic GM, but he's not invincible.


    Well in The Schneid's defense, I think that he thought Whitehurst was a starting caliber QB coming out of college. I think those 3 years at the bottom of the depth chart, bumming about in the San Diego sun NOT working on the shortcommings in his game kinda ruined him. He still seemed to have the physical tools, but looked lost when he was thrown in against live ammo.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:18 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:Am I crazy to think Flynn has more upside than Alex Smith? Obviously, Smith has proven he can thrive in a perfect situation, but what are his game-manaing ways going to do for teams like Kansas City or Jacksonville?

    No, not crazy. Alex has always been a terrible red zone QB.


    In the three games where Flynn played significant snaps prior to signing with Seattle, he was... not great. Then again, there's not a lot of evidence, really.

    Against the Lions in 2010 when he took over for Rodgers mid-game, he had only one trip to the red zone:

    2 plays, 2 attempts, 0 completions, 1 INT

    This isn't to surprising considering he was stepping in mid game. It's not like he game planned all week.

    Against the Patriots in 2010, when he was the starter, he had 5 trips into the red zone:

    18 plays, 5 runs, 2 sacks (one where he fumbled the ball away to end the game), 11 attempts, 5 completions, 2 TDs

    This stat is a little misleading. Tom Brady threw for 158 yards and 1 TD in that same game. The weather was horrific. Raining and snowing with heavy wind gusts that effected both QB's and of the two Flynn looked like the better QB and didn't benefit from one of his O-lineman running back a kick off for a TD. Yep, an O-lineman. Flynn did throw a pick and it was a bad one but there were IIRC 6 missed tackles on the return and they were horrid missed tackles the variety of which players get released over. If NE doesn't get either one of the pick 6 or the O-lineman (fricken O-lineman) TD's Flynn is 2-0 in his two starts. It should also be mentioned that Flynn threw the ball 66 times completing 40 of them. How often do you ask your backup to come in in horrible weather and ask him to throw the ball 66 times?

    Against the Lions in 2011, when he was the starter, he had 3 trips into the end zone:

    10 plays, 2 runs, 8 attempts, 5 completions, 2 TDs

    This is kind of a funny one. If you listen to the "he sucks' crowd, all Flynn did was take the snap and throw the ball and the best receiving core to ever grace the NFL field did the rest. It ignores what Flynn really did in that game including repeat come from behind leads against an opposing QB who threw for over 500 yards in a game with playoff seeding implications for the opponent only and Flynn was without multiple key starters including Jennings playing for a team that had nothing to gain from a win.

    If you watched the game honestly you would see how the YAC was possible. It was due to leading his receivers and throwing them open. He wasn't waiting for the receiver to plant like we watched Jackson do all last year, he threw the ball to were the receiver could make the catch with the least interference from DB's and with the most ability to run after the catch. GB has a great receiver group even without Jennings but they aren't so good they can just break every tackle and mow through opponents. They need to ball to be placed where they can catch it in stride or your YAC is meaningless. Even with that said only two of Flynn's 5 TD's were attributed to long runs after the catch and both were because of a perfect throw that enabled the run not despite it.



    ---

    While there is clear evidence that Flynn's play in the red zone improved with each opportunity to start, I wouldn't yet call red zone play a "strength." I'd still consider it an unknown. What is clear is that at least in the famous 480/6 game, Flynn benefited a lot from the big play. For a team to score 45 points offensively and yet only reach the red zone 3 times in a game is pretty incredible.

    This is the beauty of only having a small sample size. You can actually go back and watch each play and evaluate them individually. Stats are nice but they don't tell the whole story. You can assume alot of things but the real eyeball test is seeing what actually happened and not what the stats were. They can be very misleading. I mean after the NE game no one was saying Flynn was a better QB than Brady though that day he clearly was.

    I don't have the time to track each of Smith's plays in the red zone right now. Maybe I'll investigate that this evening.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:25 pm
  • :lol: you guys that try and hammer your point are quite amusing.

    Flynn is simply a backup. What else needs to be said?
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:49 pm
  • Here's a simple way of looking at it...

    If you are on the side that Flynn is a no brainer good starting caliber QB, then we should be seeing great offers in the near future (ie 1st to 3rd rounder). If somebody offered GB a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Flynn, how many of you really think they would turn that down, knowing they could acquire a cheap, starting caliber player with that capital? Honest question.

    If you are on the side that Flynn is god awful, then why would JS pay good money to acquire him in FA? Yes, he let him walk without an offer, but ultimately paid the man. If he was terrible, why would any GM cough up $ for him? Why is he still in the league?

    So, I'm going out on a limb and saying that reality is probably right in the middle of this debate. That being, Flynn has been a good backup QB, with pretty underwhelming physical skills (I didn't say bad) by starting QB standards, who probably has the ceiling of a low end starting QB. Does this make him terrible? No. Does this make him the GOAT? No.

    So, really the question is, how do you think other teams view Flynn? I think if some of you take the time to look at what the Chiefs are looking at, you might get a more grounded version of what Flynn truly is. This time last year, would you want to give GB a 2nd rounder for Flynn? My honest answer is no. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with a 5th rounder.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:59 pm
  • Largent80 wrote::lol: you guys that try and hammer your point are quite amusing.

    Flynn is simply a backup. What else needs to be said?


    I think you mean career backup?
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:08 pm
  • The NFL is a copycat league, and if there is one thing that defined the 2012 season, it was the emergence of the mobile QB and the validation of the read option in the NFL. While I think most NFL GMs are probably smart enough to know that QBs like Russell Wilson are very rare, QBs like Colin Kaepernick are not. Finding QBs with tools but not skills isn't hard to do, and SF is proving that such a player can lead a potent NFL offense, even without top shelf WRs.

    I see a lot of owners/GMs watching that at home and thinking "why the hell aren't we doing that?" I expect a pretty huge shift in that direction starting immediately this offseason, and though EJ Manuel might have mid round draft grades, will it shock anyone when a team trades up in round 2 to reach for him extra hard? It won't surprise me. This whole situation pretty much sucks the wind out of Matt Flynn's sails. There might be some teams that like Flynn as a backup, which explains the "wait til he's released" logic. Flynn has his fans, just none big enough to pay him starter money or hand him a starting job.


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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:15 pm
  • Mtjhoyas wrote:Here's a simple way of looking at it...

    If you are on the side that Flynn is a no brainer good starting caliber QB, then we should be seeing great offers in the near future (ie 1st to 3rd rounder). If somebody offered GB a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Flynn, how many of you really think they would turn that down, knowing they could acquire a cheap, starting caliber player with that capital? Honest question.

    If you are on the side that Flynn is god awful, then why would JS pay good money to acquire him in FA? Yes, he let him walk without an offer, but ultimately paid the man. If he was terrible, why would any GM cough up $ for him? Why is he still in the league?

    So, I'm going out on a limb and saying that reality is probably right in the middle of this debate. That being, Flynn has been a good backup QB, with pretty underwhelming physical skills (I didn't say bad) by starting QB standards, who probably has the ceiling of a low end starting QB. Does this make him terrible? No. Does this make him the GOAT? No.

    So, really the question is, how do you think other teams view Flynn? I think if some of you take the time to look at what the Chiefs are looking at, you might get a more grounded version of what Flynn truly is. This time last year, would you want to give GB a 2nd rounder for Flynn? My honest answer is no. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with a 5th rounder.


    See I'm not on either side of that fence. I see things from Flynn that are traits of a good QB and I think given the right environment he might be a good QB but I also acknowledge that we don't really know how he will be long term. When I say long term I think of guys like Tony Romo. They show all the right things and have some amazing highlight reels but they also are erratic and seem to lack that killer leader instinct that motivates their team mates and push's the team over the top.

    My problem with these conversations is you have the same guys that before preseason were saying Flynn was slow and couldn't scramble, had a noodle arm and couldn't throw deep, is a career backup, he was a 7th round pick for a reason on and on. You get the idea. Once the bullets started flying in preseason and you seen Flynn scramble out of the pocket with good speed and throw a beautiful 50+ yard strike to TO that TO promptly dropped and sprayed the ball all over the field even though he didn't compile much in the stats category thanks in large part to the supporting cast those guys quickly changed their tune about his weakness's and instead of saying, hey I guess he doesn't have a noodle arm or wow he actually does have some speed and pocket presence, they just reverted back to he only has two starts and his supporting cast in GB did all the work he shouldn't get credit for any of that.

    It's kind of sickening. He may very well not have the leadership skills that Wilson possesses and he may become erratic from game to game and those are the things that are still a question for anyone. His resume is short but impressive but it doesn't give the whole answer and that won't come out until he actually is a full time starter but to just write him off as a scrub when he has so far shown zero reason to believe he is, to me is ridiculous and deserves to be called out for the rubbish it is.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:33 pm
  • I have no idea whether Matt Flynn will BE a good starting QB in this league.

    But I will say that he has definitely shown POTENTIAL to be a good starting QB.

    Just looking back on that game he played against Detroit: 480 passing yards, 6 TDs.

    Those are freaking videogame numbers. People might say he was very lucky, but at the professional level of football, nobody gets THAT lucky.

    People might say his success that game was due to him being on a stacked team. Sure the Packers were the #1 seed that season, but I think that was more on Aaron Rodgers than the team being stacked.

    Sure, the Packers have a lot of great depth to the WR group, but it's not anything near what a team like the Falcons have. And Matt Ryan hasn't exploded for that much production having Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez to throw to, has he? Much less playing outdoors, in the snow?

    It's not like the Packers run game or defense did Flynn any favors in that game, they both disappeared.

    He fought and made a very good case that he can be a productive starting QB. Whether he does or not depends on whether he'll be given the chance to start, and whether he can replicate that on the field.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:47 pm
  • Hands up if you've written off Matt Flynn as a scrub?

    Anyone?

    Hang on.... why can't I see any hands?

    Funny that, I thought we were going to see such a movement of arms raising from waist height to the ceiling... potentially on such a scale that it leads to a seismic shift provoking a devastating earthquake across the Pacific Northwest.

    I guess we don't need 'RichnHansom' (aka LivesinmothersbasementNlookslikeTerryBradshaw) to call out the masses for their 'sickening', beastly viewpoints.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:48 pm
  • Eh, I've written him off as a scrub.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:50 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Eh, I've written him off as a scrub.



    You sicken me.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:07 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    HawkWow wrote:I won't lose sight of the fact that we are never more than 1 play away from being the Cleveland Browns.


    And Flynn stops us being the Browns?

    I don't even know who Atlanta's back-up is for Matt Ryan.


    In a perfect world, nobody would have to know the names of any back-ups but Atlanta's is Luke (warm) McCown. Imagine if McCown had to come in for Ryan. They'd become the Cleveland Browns before our very eyes.

    And yes, If RW were injured, I'd give Flynn a much better chance of preventing us from becoming the Browns than I would Portis, Robinson or even Golden Tate. ;)

    I think we have a pro-bowl QB as well as a very good QB on our roster. It's a luxury few teams have. Last year we would have given anything for 1 decent QB, now we have two.....and that also apparently makes people unhappy.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:11 pm
  • Matt Flynn could be the next Ken O'Brien or the next Bernie Kosar, but he could also be the next Wade Wilson or Jay Schroeder so it's really hard to say for sure what he's worth.
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Re: Matt Flynn expected to be cut?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:17 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Matt Flynn could be the next Ken O'Brien or the next Bernie Kosar, but he could also be the next Wade Wilson or Jay Schroeder so it's really hard to say for sure what he's worth.


    Zeb, you shoehorning your 4 favorite QB's of all-time into every conversation gets old.

    Eric Hipple, Joe Ferguson, Bubby Brister and Richard Todd.

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