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 Post subject: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:45 am 
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I was listening to a radio station here in Denver yesterday afternoon. It was a segment entitled "Bronco post-mortem Day 2". I find it fascinating the way it appears a large portion of the Bronco Fanbase views their loss versus my impression of the Seahawk's fanbase is handling the Falcon loss. Both games were in the divisional round and both hinged on late game defensive miscues (I would argue the Denver miscue was greater, but I digress).

In Denver it seems as if they are coming from the standpoint of having a very small window for victory (which may be true). There was more than just an expectation of winning that game, it was almost as if it was a given to them. The loss came as such a shock, you have callers to the station demanding the firing of the coaches and a complete overhaul of the defense. They are calling Manning's kneel-down prior to overtime the "18 million dollar mistake." By most accounts the season was a complete failure because they failed to win a single post season game. Now contrast this with much of what is on this message boards and relayed on KIRO.

The Hawk fan base is extremely disappointed, yet behind that disappointment there is a lingering excitement for thing things the young team was able to show this year and great anticipation for the upcoming season. Sure there will be necessary changes, but the mood seems so much more positive. The feelings coming out of the two fan bases could not, it seems, be more different.

One last note to cherish as a hawk fan. The radio guys were lamenting the Denver draft last season, how they could have had players like Russel Wilson, and yes even made mention of Robert Turbin instead of Brock Oswieler (sp?) and Ronnie Hillman; how their outlook might be different if they had those guys in the bag instead of the ones they do have. It just kind of made me smile a little.

Cheers from the Mile High City.


MHH


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:50 am 
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Thanks for the perspective. 2006 and 2007 were the same here, we knew the window for Matt and Walt was closing. Denver fans are well aware that the window for Peyton is only going to be open for a short time, and with Champ getting older...

I am gong to enjoy watching Elway mismanage the empire. Watch him overspend on marquis spots and ignore depth, it is going to happen. He is simply too arrogant to be a good GM.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:53 am 
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I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:00 am 
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-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.


Yup.

And does anyone remember the heated arguments here over "wasting a season developing a rookie and costing us games"?

Well, those folks were right. Developing a rookie DID cost us games, and we ended up 11-5. That's what kind of team we have now, folks... where developing a rookie at the most important position still gives us double-digit wins. And now we have a pretty damn well developed QB, too.

I cannot WAIT for next season to start.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:04 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.


Yup.

And does anyone remember the heated arguments here over "wasting a season developing a rookie and costing us games"?

Well, those folks were right. Developing a rookie DID cost us games, and we ended up 11-5. That's what kind of team we have now, folks... where developing a rookie at the most important position still gives us double-digit wins. And now we have a pretty damn well developed QB, too.

I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


What he said


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:06 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
Well, those folks were right. Developing a rookie DID cost us games, and we ended up 11-5. That's what kind of team we have now, folks... where developing a rookie at the most important position still gives us double-digit wins. And now we have a pretty damn well developed QB, too.

I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


I'd argue that developing a rookie DIDN'T cost us games. Arizona, he got the team the lead but the defense couldn't stop Kolb and Braylon couldn't make a play. I'll give you STL even though his INT's were fluke INT's, but I'll give you that one. San Fran? Dropped passes all over the place and a defensive meltdown down the stretch. I wouldn't pin it on Russ. Detroit and Miami? He did everything in his power to put the Seahawks up late with minimal time left, only for the defense to roll over and die. Same goes for Atlanta.

I know you're advocating Hustle Wilson here, but I wouldn't even let the "developing a rookie QB will cost us games" off the hook.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:14 am 
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NYCoug wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
Well, those folks were right. Developing a rookie DID cost us games, and we ended up 11-5. That's what kind of team we have now, folks... where developing a rookie at the most important position still gives us double-digit wins. And now we have a pretty damn well developed QB, too.

I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


I'd argue that developing a rookie DIDN'T cost us games. Arizona, he got the team the lead but the defense couldn't stop Kolb and Braylon couldn't make a play. I'll give you STL even though his INT's were fluke INT's, but I'll give you that one. San Fran? Dropped passes all over the place and a defensive meltdown down the stretch. I wouldn't pin it on Russ. Detroit and Miami? He did everything in his power to put the Seahawks up late with minimal time left, only for the defense to roll over and die. Same goes for Atlanta.

I know you're advocating Hustle Wilson here, but I wouldn't even let the "developing a rookie QB will cost us games" off the hook.


Eh, you could argue that each of the ARI, STL, and SF games might not have been losses had the offense been able to put up 20+, late game issues notwithstanding. Considering how the offense was playing at the end of the season, it would be a remarkable feat if an opposing defense held this team to under 20 points... that certainly wasn't the case at the start of the season.

And that's not actually blaming Wilson 100%. It's on the coaches, too, for keeping him so tightly leashed.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:25 am 
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I think it's fair to say that going with Wilson probably cost us some games at the beginning of the season. But I think it's also true that giving Wilson that time to develop and improve early in the season WON us some games late in the year that we probably would have lost otherwise (Chicago and St. Louis come to mind.) Overall, between the games we might have won early in the year and the games we might have lost late in the year, I think it balances out.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:26 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
NYCoug wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
Well, those folks were right. Developing a rookie DID cost us games, and we ended up 11-5. That's what kind of team we have now, folks... where developing a rookie at the most important position still gives us double-digit wins. And now we have a pretty damn well developed QB, too.

I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


I'd argue that developing a rookie DIDN'T cost us games. Arizona, he got the team the lead but the defense couldn't stop Kolb and Braylon couldn't make a play. I'll give you STL even though his INT's were fluke INT's, but I'll give you that one. San Fran? Dropped passes all over the place and a defensive meltdown down the stretch. I wouldn't pin it on Russ. Detroit and Miami? He did everything in his power to put the Seahawks up late with minimal time left, only for the defense to roll over and die. Same goes for Atlanta.

I know you're advocating Hustle Wilson here, but I wouldn't even let the "developing a rookie QB will cost us games" off the hook.


Eh, you could argue that each of the ARI, STL, and SF games might not have been losses had the offense been able to put up 20+, late game issues notwithstanding. Considering how the offense was playing at the end of the season, it would be a remarkable feat if an opposing defense held this team to under 20 points... that certainly wasn't the case at the start of the season.

And that's not actually blaming Wilson 100%. It's on the coaches, too, for keeping him so tightly leashed.


Yeah the D more than did their job in those 3 games. Those 3 losses were all on the Offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:34 am 
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Shadowhawk wrote:
I think it's fair to say that going with Wilson probably cost us some games at the beginning of the season. But I think it's also true that giving Wilson that time to develop and improve early in the season WON us some games late in the year that we probably would have lost otherwise (Chicago and St. Louis come to mind.) Overall, between the games we might have won early in the year and the games we might have lost late in the year, I think it balances out.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:20 am 
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-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.



I have never as a Seahawks fan seen the window this wide open. I feel like the window is so wide open right now that the window frame isn't even visible!

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:25 am 
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Fair points about the defense doing their part in the ARI, STL, and SF games but that still leaves the Detroit, Miami, and Atlanta games.

Good points though gents.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:30 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


You're not alone in this sentiment.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:31 am 
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-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.

I take it you figure the odds are that you'll be around next year. I'm to the point where I don't count on that anymore. Also, there are no guarantees next year if I do. So for some of us, yeah, the window is closing has a whole different meaning.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:43 am 
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HawkFan72 wrote:
Yeah the D more than did their job in those 3 games. Those 3 losses were all on the Offense.


But not (solely) on Russell Wilson.

He put us in position to win the Arizona game where drops costs us, and the SF game DEFINITELY cost us with drops.
Even the Rams game can come down to special teams not seeing the fake FG and a couple of unfortunate interceptions

Wilson certainly had his fair share of mistakes in the first half of the season, but I don't think he prevented us from winning, he did enough I'd say, though not much more. He was an average QB at the start, which, for a rookie is still excellent

Flynn likely would have had restrictions put on him too that may have prevented us winning.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:54 am 
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Milehighhawk wrote:
I was listening to a radio station here in Denver yesterday afternoon. It was a segment entitled "Bronco post-mortem Day 2". I find it fascinating the way it appears a large portion of the Bronco Fanbase views their loss versus my impression of the Seahawk's fanbase is handling the Falcon loss. Both games were in the divisional round and both hinged on late game defensive miscues (I would argue the Denver miscue was greater, but I digress).

In Denver it seems as if they are coming from the standpoint of having a very small window for victory (which may be true). There was more than just an expectation of winning that game, it was almost as if it was a given to them. The loss came as such a shock, you have callers to the station demanding the firing of the coaches and a complete overhaul of the defense. They are calling Manning's kneel-down prior to overtime the "18 million dollar mistake." By most accounts the season was a complete failure because they failed to win a single post season game. Now contrast this with much of what is on this message boards and relayed on KIRO.

The Hawk fan base is extremely disappointed, yet behind that disappointment there is a lingering excitement for thing things the young team was able to show this year and great anticipation for the upcoming season. Sure there will be necessary changes, but the mood seems so much more positive. The feelings coming out of the two fan bases could not, it seems, be more different.

One last note to cherish as a hawk fan. The radio guys were lamenting the Denver draft last season, how they could have had players like Russel Wilson, and yes even made mention of Robert Turbin instead of Brock Oswieler (sp?) and Ronnie Hillman; how their outlook might be different if they had those guys in the bag instead of the ones they do have. It just kind of made me smile a little.

Cheers from the Mile High City.


MHH


Being from Denver you know how Denver fans are. Most if not all my friends are Denver fans and they all acted like the Lombardi should have been handed to Manning without ever having to step on the field. Their fan arrogance blinded them into thinking they were Gods gift to football. They're still living back in 90's when they won back to back Bowls. I'm glad they were smacked in the mouth for their thinking. I didn't say a single word or talk any smack the whole season to any of them especially before Denver played this past weekend. I knew Manning was gonna choke. My dislike for Denver and it's fans goes back to the AFC West days. Still hard to let that go. I know that it's been 10+ years since we've been in the AFC West but I still get a little grin on my face when Denver loses.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:04 am 
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E.C. Laloosh wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
I cannot WAIT for next season to start.


You're not alone in this sentiment.


Preseason started Monday. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:05 am 
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Milehighhawk wrote:
One last note to cherish as a hawk fan. The radio guys were lamenting the Denver draft last season, how they could have had players like Russel Wilson, and yes even made mention of Robert Turbin instead of Brock Oswieler (sp?) and Ronnie Hillman; how their outlook might be different if they had those guys in the bag instead of the ones they do have. It just kind of made me smile a little.


Scottemojo wrote:
I am gong to enjoy watching Elway mismanage the empire. Watch him overspend on marquis spots and ignore depth, it is going to happen. He is simply too arrogant to be a good GM.


I'm going to laugh when Elway wins executive of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:20 am 
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We just got as far as them in the playoffs in a stronger conference and stronger division.

Our amazing front office just drafted our franchise quarterback to go with our exciting young team.

They hired a mercenary HOF QB whose health is questionable and time is running out.

I totally understand the different perspectives.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:17 am 
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literally the only thing I'm envious of Denver for are their pass rush (or well, Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil).

Can you imagine those two on our defense over Hill and Branch? (I say Branch because I'm fully convinced Bryant could make a bigger impact as a DT now that he has a few years more experience).

We'd never ever lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:09 am 
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You could also inject the lack of discipline into Pete's some of his play calling decisions this year.


-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:12 am 
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Kip, Elway bungled the first round. He took as big a gamble height wise as Schneider when he drafted a 6-8 QB in the second, and is forever on the list of guys who passed on Wilson too. I thought he mismanaged the front of the Bronco's draft terribly.

Right now, his sole redemption is signing Manning. But it was hardly a stroke of genius. Not trying to get Manning would have been an indictment, trying to get him is not a credit. And executive? He golfs with important people. He doesn't do cap, he doesn't scout anything but quarterbacks and even then his template is...himself.

So far his crowning achievement was not allowing the tebow mania to get him. Still, Tebow is one playoff win ahead of Manning in Denver.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:52 am 
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B) Denver was the best team in the NFL in 5 years, Super Bowl, etc. ad nauseam.

He deleted his facebook account the other day and hasn't responded to any texts or calls.

Usually when the season is over for me, it's without much worry about the post season. If we made it to the NFC championship I would perk up quite a bit. I'm always hyped for every game, but not like this year and the 2005 year. Hell, even 2010. This year was totally different. I really thought the Seahawks were about to continue doing the most amazing things we've seen.

Once it was all over, I went home from Scooter's Pub in Las Vegas (plug) and lay in bed all day. I barely ate anything. After that day though, I was taken by an overwhelming sense of optimism like I've never had before. It didn't even just stop with football, my workouts have gotten better amongst other things! The fans greeting them at the airport pretty much did it for me. Things like that, the RRR and the amount of appreciation shown to the 12th man this year really solidified my feeling that we are a part of the team, hell we have our own jersey. It's been a great ride.

Also, lol@Done-ver.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:48 am 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
-The Glove- wrote:
I never understood the whole "window is closing" sentiment earlier in this season for the Seahawks. I know we had a few posters screaming that all year. We have the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. With youth comes a lack of discipline and experience. Talent is no issue at all...but I'm just excited to see how much better they can get in time and what PC and JS can do with the draft, knowing we don't have too many needs.

I take it you figure the odds are that you'll be around next year. I'm to the point where I don't count on that anymore. Also, there are no guarantees next year if I do. So for some of us, yeah, the window is closing has a whole different meaning.


Of course I do...I'm talking about the team's window of opportunity. Not anybody else's.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:23 am 
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The difference is expectations.

We were playing with house money because no one thought we'd get to the Divisional round six months ago. Still a painful loss, but nowhere near the pain of being a #1 seed with home field advantage and a window of Superbowl opportunity of about 1-2 more years cause your QB is almost 40.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:27 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
Still a painful loss, but nowhere near the pain of being a #1 seed with home field advantage and a window of Superbowl opportunity of about 1-2 more years cause your QB is almost 40.


I wouldn't say age 36 is "almost 40", but I get what you mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:33 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Kip, Elway bungled the first round. He took as big a gamble height wise as Schneider when he drafted a 6-8 QB in the second, and is forever on the list of guys who passed on Wilson too. I thought he mismanaged the front of the Bronco's draft terribly.

Right now, his sole redemption is signing Manning. But it was hardly a stroke of genius. Not trying to get Manning would have been an indictment, trying to get him is not a credit. And executive? He golfs with important people. He doesn't do cap, he doesn't scout anything but quarterbacks and even then his template is...himself.

So far his crowning achievement was not allowing the tebow mania to get him. Still, Tebow is one playoff win ahead of Manning in Denver.

Agree with Scott on this one. I just don't see Elway as 'it' but admittedly my distaste for him as a player could well be clouding my judgement.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:44 am 
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I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:50 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...


$96,000,000 and full control of the offense do it for ya?

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...


$96,000,000 and full control of the offense do it for ya?


So you're saying he did it for the money? I thought that was what he had Papa John's for...

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:07 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...


Maybe he figured he'd end up going to Houston on the road for the divisional round. :mrgreen:

Seriously, though, if the Denver safety (Moore?) doesn't take a stupid angle and misread the ball, Denver would be hosting the AFCCG this weekend. Yeah, Manning's early pick-six and OT INT were huge factors, but I'd argue that Denver's suddenly invisible pass rush and Champ Bailey doing an impression of toast were bigger factors.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:50 pm 
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volsunghawk wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...


Maybe he figured he'd end up going to Houston on the road for the divisional round. :mrgreen:

Seriously, though, if the Denver safety (Moore?) doesn't take a stupid angle and misread the ball, Denver would be hosting the AFCCG this weekend. Yeah, Manning's early pick-six and OT INT were huge factors, but I'd argue that Denver's suddenly invisible pass rush and Champ Bailey doing an impression of toast were bigger factors.

Yes, but also remember that without the 2 kick/punt returns for TDs they're not even in the game at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Perspective from Denver Radio
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:55 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
Sarlacc83 wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the hell Peyton signed in Denver. He has a HORRIBLE record of losing playoff games in cold climates (he never beat Brady in the playoffs until the game was in a dome). Real head scratcher...


$96,000,000 and full control of the offense do it for ya?


So you're saying he did it for the money? I thought that was what he had Papa John's for...


Money and control..........and it's hard to blame him. Maybe SF was a better team if he wanted to win a SB, but I doubt control freak Harbaugh was going to allow Manning to run the offense.

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