What would it cost to bring Suh home?

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  • IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:Suh isn't going anywhere this year. His contract included $40 million guaranteed. He still has $19 million of that left to be paid (based on cap number, not what he's actually received). His cap hit for next year jumps from $6.56 to $17.2 million. However if he is traded ALL of that guaranteed money becomes a 2012 cap hit.

    Basically if Detroit keeps him his cap number is $17.2 million.
    If Detroit trades him, his cap number is $19 million and he's not on the team.
    Not going to happen.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/


    Please educate me one bit further as I don't understand this. Isn't the cap hit only if they cut him? If Seahaws trades for him they would pay the $19 million and it would go off the Detroit books. He didn't get a signing bonus so it isn't like money is split over the years and needs to be picked up as well.......

    With that said this front office doesn't want to spend big and use all the cap space on one player - draft well build that way is how everything to this point have been made

    Curious do you trade Browner straight up (what a cap relief) and hope to pick up another 5th rounder......


    Any money that is labeled as "guaranteed" when a contract is signed means two things: 1. the player will receive that money no matter what happens and 2. as a result that money will ALL have to be accounted for with the salary cap. It would actually make more sense to release Suh if he is not going to be on the team, but they would have to wait until June 1st to do so. For players that are released after June 1st the team can choose to take the cap hit during that year, or can cut it in half and take half of the cap hit the following year (unless something changed with the last CBA that I'm not aware of).

    They are not trading Browner. His cap number for next year is $550K. That is peanuts.


    I still think that if Detroit trades him to Seattle then Seattle pays the guaranteed money and it will NOT count against Detroit cap. It won't count twice the union would never have allowed for that. This is not an issue of cutting Suh it is an issue of trading him.
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  • I'd give up our 1st and 2nd plus next years 2nd. I think we could get a 3rd for Flynn. If our #1 and #2 needs are Pass rush DT and another DE. and we drafted them 1st and 2nd round I doubt they would have nearly the same impact Suh would have.

    With a 3rd, 4th, 2x 5th, 6th 2x 7th, and mabye another 3rd from Flynn we can still get soem depth at TE, WR, LB, OL, and DL. With 18Mil in cap room this year why not bring him in and pay him big money up front.

    Why did you even bring this up now all I can think about is how incredible our defense would be with a monster like Suh.
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  • Draft the next Suh in the first or second round of this year's draft. Better and cheaper.
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  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Draft the next Suh in the first or second round of this year's draft. Better and cheaper.


    Is it really? WTH are we waiting for then!

    Guys like Suh, and his dad Cortez Kennedy, come out once a decade or so.
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  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Draft the next Suh in the first or second round of this year's draft. Better and cheaper.


    Yeah, Sailor, you know that's not going to happen. There's no way GMs would pass on a player with Suh's measurables for nearly two rounds. No way. (And don't bring up Russell Wilson because he's the exception.)
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  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Draft the next Suh in the first or second round of this year's draft. Better and cheaper.


    Satire? :) Guys with physical talent like Suh's would never escape the top 5 picks. And seriously, this is the worst draft for DT I've seen in years. DE isn't a whole lot better, unfortunately.

    I do see the next Zach Miller and Roddy White reaching our #25 pick though. Great year to pick late, just not for DL.
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  • I'd REALLY like to get resolution on the cap ramifications, for each side.

    We've had a few birdies inform us that Suh's a quiet cat off the field. A homebody who WANTS to play for Seattle. It's a huge need for Seattle. Detroit has lots of problems aside from just concnerns over Suh. AND, they invested a high draft pick to their defensive interior just two years ago. For all that, it makes sense.

    C'mon, we can will this to happen, right folks? Anyone have a copy of "The Secret" lying around?
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  • It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him
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  • The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him


    You sound like fans from 31 other teams speaking about Browner and Sherman.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him


    You sound like fans from 31 other teams speaking about Browner and Sherman.


    If Suh actually became a Seahawk, I'd name my next born child after him. Which is really saying something because I can neither spell or pronounce Nahdomukhuwong properly.
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him


    You sound like fans from 31 other teams speaking about Browner and Sherman.


    If Suh actually became a Seahawk, I'd name my next born child after him. Which is really saying something because I can neither spell or pronounce Nahdomukhuwong properly.


    And, you'd have a hard time conceiving the way you "do it". So, that IS saying something.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him


    You sound like fans from 31 other teams speaking about Browner and Sherman.


    Oh please, they don't stomp on people or kick people in the nuts like Suh.
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  • The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him

    At this point, Pete bringing in "dirty players" doesn't really worry me anymore. Marshawn, Mike Williams, Bruce Irvin, Braylon Edwards, and TO were all given that label at some point, and none of those guys backfired as far as I can tell. They have either succeeded or were shown the door, but there haven't been any visible issues as far as I can tell, I think...

    If Pete wants to bring in a guy like Suh, or (god forbid) Dockett, more power to him. I'll root for just about any Seahawk.
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  • The Battle #83 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him


    You sound like fans from 31 other teams speaking about Browner and Sherman.


    Oh please, they don't stomp on people or kick people in the nuts like Suh.


    dude. have you SEEN Brandon Browner play corner? He gave Braylon Edwards the jacknife power bomb last year. Just last week he swung Pierre Garcon around by his head.

    BB is a BAD man.
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  • razgriz737 wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him

    At this point, Pete bringing in "dirty players" doesn't really worry me anymore. Marshawn, Mike Williams, Bruce Irvin, Braylon Edwards, and TO were all given that label at some point, and none of those guys backfired as far as I can tell. They have either succeeded or were shown the door, but there haven't been any visible issues as far as I can tell, I think...

    If Pete wants to bring in a guy like Suh, or (god forbid) Dockett, more power to him. I'll root for just about any Seahawk.


    Never heard of the dirty label given to Braylon or TO. I heard aout character issues, but not dirty players
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  • The Battle #83 wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:
    The Battle #83 wrote:It would be cool to get a player like Suh, but he's a dirty player. Dont think i could root for him

    At this point, Pete bringing in "dirty players" doesn't really worry me anymore. Marshawn, Mike Williams, Bruce Irvin, Braylon Edwards, and TO were all given that label at some point, and none of those guys backfired as far as I can tell. They have either succeeded or were shown the door, but there haven't been any visible issues as far as I can tell, I think...

    If Pete wants to bring in a guy like Suh, or (god forbid) Dockett, more power to him. I'll root for just about any Seahawk.


    Never heard of the dirty label given to Braylon or TO. I heard aout character issues, but not dirty players

    My bad, I just meant "trouble players". Be it on the field issues/off the field issues/locker room cancer type guys, or whatever. I don't really know the exact term. I personally just lump all those guys into one generic category.
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  • ^^^
    Gotcha. I agree that plers who are deemed as cancers wouldn't be cancers on the team because they would be on a tight leash
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  • mikeak wrote:
    IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:
    IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:Suh isn't going anywhere this year. His contract included $40 million guaranteed. He still has $19 million of that left to be paid (based on cap number, not what he's actually received). His cap hit for next year jumps from $6.56 to $17.2 million. However if he is traded ALL of that guaranteed money becomes a 2012 cap hit.

    Basically if Detroit keeps him his cap number is $17.2 million.
    If Detroit trades him, his cap number is $19 million and he's not on the team.
    Not going to happen.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/


    Any money that is labeled as "guaranteed" when a contract is signed means two things: 1. the player will receive that money no matter what happens and 2. as a result that money will ALL have to be accounted for with the salary cap. It would actually make more sense to release Suh if he is not going to be on the team, but they would have to wait until June 1st to do so. For players that are released after June 1st the team can choose to take the cap hit during that year, or can cut it in half and take half of the cap hit the following year (unless something changed with the last CBA that I'm not aware of).


    I still think that if Detroit trades him to Seattle then Seattle pays the guaranteed money and it will NOT count against Detroit cap. It won't count twice the union would never have allowed for that. This is not an issue of cutting Suh it is an issue of trading him.


    After doing some more research it looks like you're correct and I am wrong. I believe that only the "Signing Bonus" is accelerated when a player is traded. Accelerated = counts against the cap immediately. If there is remaining guaranteed money that is an "option bonus" or "roster bonus" as is the case with Ndamukong then the team acquiring him assumes all responsibilities for that money.

    So with that in mind (pay attention here pehawk, you're going to like this) the Hawks could trade for Suh and it would count almost nothing against the cap for the Lions in 2013. The problem is the Hawks would then be responsible for the $19 million guaranteed in his contract. His current cap number for next season is more than $17 million so the only way I could see this happening is if Suh we're willing to re-do his deal with the Hawks upon arriving.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:I think Suh would excel here...and be kept in check with his attitude as well.


    I live in Michigan now and get to see a healthy dose of Suh and that guy is a cancer. I don't want him in a Hawks jersey.
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  • cancer can be cured

    and on the signing bonus. I actually think this can be taken on by the team that receives the player as well. This was a big issue when Tebow went from Jets to Denver who would pay the part of the signing bonus for this year. I think whoever picks up the check for that portion gets it against the cap. Now if you cut a player different animal
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  • CANHawk wrote:dude. have you SEEN Brandon Browner play corner? He gave Braylon Edwards the jacknife power bomb last year. Just last week he swung Pierre Garcon around by his head.

    BB is a BAD man.


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  • SeaWolv wrote:I live in Michigan now and get to see a healthy dose of Suh and that guy is a cancer. I don't want him in a Hawks jersey.


    I've read a lot of stuff about the Lions being unhappy with Suh, apparently he has a very bad attitude, doesn't practice, doesn't get along with other players, etc. Would be very skeptical of Suh.

    And I don't agree with the comparisons to BB and Sherm. Watch an episode of Real Rob Report. You can see that our entire secondary is very close, and that they hold themselves to a very high standard.

    From what I've read and heard about Suh, this is not at all how he is. And it's hard to believe that it's all just false rumors. There is an overwhelming amount of noise out of Detroit that Suh is just a bad teammate, has a bad attitude, a quitter, etc. I've read multiple reports from multiple sources saying the Lions want to release/trade Suh ASAP. If he had potential consistent with the hype, that would not be the case.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    SeaWolv wrote:I live in Michigan now and get to see a healthy dose of Suh and that guy is a cancer. I don't want him in a Hawks jersey.


    I've read a lot of stuff about the Lions being unhappy with Suh, apparently he has a very bad attitude, doesn't practice, doesn't get along with other players, etc. Would be very skeptical of Suh.

    And I don't agree with the comparisons to BB and Sherm. Watch an episode of Real Rob Report. You can see that our entire secondary is very close, and that they hold themselves to a very high standard.

    From what I've read and heard about Suh, this is not at all how he is. And it's hard to believe that it's all just false rumors. There is an overwhelming amount of noise out of Detroit that Suh is just a bad teammate, has a bad attitude, a quitter, etc. I've read multiple reports from multiple sources saying the Lions want to release/trade Suh ASAP. If he had potential consistent with the hype, that would not be the case.

    Just think how you would act if forced to spend 6 months a year in Detroit.

    I would take Suh in a second. Reggie friggin White part two.
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  • Again, we kinda heard this about Charles Woodson too. In fact, worse really.

    Nurture not nature.

    Hans is right, there is quite a bit of public pining for Suh to be exiled from 8 mile.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Just think how you would act if forced to spend 6 months a year in Detroit.

    I would take Suh in a second. Reggie friggin White part two.


    There is no similarity at all between Suh and White.

    Reggie White was absolutely dominant on the field. I'll never forget watching him being triple-teamed against NE in the SuperBowl and still getting all those sacks. NE literally had their LG, LT and a TE all trying to stop Reggie White, and he was using the LT as a battering ram against the QB. Literally pushed the LT up off his feet and ran him backwards at the QB. The whole time, the LG and TE were both leaning into the LT's back or trying to take out White's legs. That happened on multiple downs. Never seen anything like that in my life and I'll never forget it. That doesn't even begin to describe White's dominance. I'm not the only one who thinks he was the best ever:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ock/041230

    He was also known as the Minister of Defense. Not just because he was a field general, but he was also a highly religious man. All his teammates said he was the ultimate team guy and a really caring person, that he reached out to rookies and tried to help people.

    Suh has none of those qualities. In fact, he's one of the most overrated pass rushers in football. Known to take plays off, known for his bad attitude, pouts during games, fights with teammates, etc. He has never had the impact in an NFL game that Reggie White did. Name one game where Suh was the difference, where he stripped a QB and ran 70 yards for a TD or anything like that. In fact, Suh has fallen off the map.

    Suh had 8 sacks this season, and 4 sacks in 2011.

    Reggie White's lowest number of sacks in a season was 8, and he only did that once in 1994. Every single year other than that, he had well over 10, he generally had 12-15 and peaked at 21 in 1987. Reggie White was an unstoppable monster. That dude destroyed offenses by himself. And in fact, it's a huge shame that Brett Favre has gotten the credit for Green Bay's Super Bowl win when that honor should go to Reggie White.
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  • HAHA can you even imagine what this teams attitude would be like if they had Suh on the D-Line!?

    We think our team has swag now. if Suh caught that attitude while on this team, the smell of soiled underpants would permeate the league.

    "Well, we can't run it because Suh is likely to kill our HB. We can't throw it because Kam or Browner have anger problems.... guess we just... hm..."

    Pete has a great way of bringing in troubled athletes, making them comfortable and letting them produce. It's already been mentioned, but Lynch and Irvin come to mind.

    It's a go if Detroit doesn't want him anymore.
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  • I would rather the Hawks draft a 3rd-4th rounder that they have been eyeing, somewhere in there.

    As this team moves along, it is going to get difficult for players to make it out of College. If Clemons can get healthy, he needs to be back, Irvin will get better too.

    We have Jones to think about and maybe that spot can get back filled with a stud DL player.
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  • For 22 sacks in three years from a DT and the ability to singlehandedly turn Bruce Irvin into Aldon Smith, you pay money. Suh instantly puts this defense in 2000 Ravens territory.

    Only problem is convincing Detroit to put him on the market.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Only problem is convincing Detroit to put him on the market.


    Hans wasn't joking.

    There's some pressure in Detroit to do just that. The GM could conceivably buy himself a year or so to "rebuild" again IF he dealt Suh. It's not as black and white (sorry for the racism...some of my best friends are Lions) as we'd think.
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  • As for the attitude... How happy would you be if you had to live in detroit 8 months of the year and have to play for Jim Schwartz?! That guy is a spastic ass clown.
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  • not being a local Hawk fan, where are these stories about Suh stating he wants to play for Seattle? Not refuting cus I'd welcome him with swords and battle axes for sure.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    SeaWolv wrote:I live in Michigan now and get to see a healthy dose of Suh and that guy is a cancer. I don't want him in a Hawks jersey.


    I've read a lot of stuff about the Lions being unhappy with Suh, apparently he has a very bad attitude, doesn't practice, doesn't get along with other players, etc. Would be very skeptical of Suh.

    And I don't agree with the comparisons to BB and Sherm. Watch an episode of Real Rob Report. You can see that our entire secondary is very close, and that they hold themselves to a very high standard.

    From what I've read and heard about Suh, this is not at all how he is. And it's hard to believe that it's all just false rumors. There is an overwhelming amount of noise out of Detroit that Suh is just a bad teammate, has a bad attitude, a quitter, etc. I've read multiple reports from multiple sources saying the Lions want to release/trade Suh ASAP. If he had potential consistent with the hype, that would not be the case.


    But he seems so nice on the Subway commercials :D
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