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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:25 am 
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Desmond Bryant and Richard Seymour should also be targets.

I like Mike Wallace over Greg Jennings.

We could also use Jared Cook.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:31 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
Desmond Bryant and Richard Seymour should also be targets.

I like Mike Wallace over Greg Jennings.

We could also use Jared Cook.


Ditto for Wallace over Jennings. Love the speed of Wallace.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:31 am 
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Wallace is also VERY used to playing sandlot.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:34 am 
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Keep in mind we don't have excessively deep pockets.

The good news is, we rolled over a lot of cap space this season. But we probably can't go after both a top-flight WR and DT plys sign the guys we need to sign. We need to be mindful of the upcoming fiscal commitments we will make when the rookie deals expire for the likes of Okung, Thomas, Tate and Chancellor.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:38 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:
Keep in mind we don't have excessively deep pockets.

The good news is, we rolled over a lot of cap space this season. But we probably can't go after both a top-flight WR and DT plys sign the guys we need to sign. We need to be mindful of the upcoming fiscal commitments we will make when the rookie deals expire for the likes of Okung, Thomas, Tate and Chancellor.


Excellent point. If we're happy with our All-Pro level players, we need to be prepared to keep them here. That means we're not likely to be big players in FA and that we're going to have to let some solid contributors walk each season. It's the Green Bay model... expect to see Schneider and the FO start staggering contracts and the draft becoming exponentially more important to our roster than FA.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:
Keep in mind we don't have excessively deep pockets.

The good news is, we rolled over a lot of cap space this season. But we probably can't go after both a top-flight WR and DT plys sign the guys we need to sign. We need to be mindful of the upcoming fiscal commitments we will make when the rookie deals expire for the likes of Okung, Thomas, Tate and Chancellor.


The first three must be resigned.

I wouldn't bet against an upgrade over Chancellor being found late in the 2013 or 2014 draft. Like him, but I think he might be the odd man out.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:46 am 
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DT Armond Armstead, 6'5'' 300lbs. 6 sacks in the CFL, could be another gem from up north.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:48 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:
Keep in mind we don't have excessively deep pockets.

The good news is, we rolled over a lot of cap space this season. But we probably can't go after both a top-flight WR and DT plys sign the guys we need to sign. We need to be mindful of the upcoming fiscal commitments we will make when the rookie deals expire for the likes of Okung, Thomas, Tate and Chancellor.


We have alot of cap flexibility and trading Matt Flynn will only give us more.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:56 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:
Keep in mind we don't have excessively deep pockets.

The good news is, we rolled over a lot of cap space this season. But we probably can't go after both a top-flight WR and DT plys sign the guys we need to sign. We need to be mindful of the upcoming fiscal commitments we will make when the rookie deals expire for the likes of Okung, Thomas, Tate and Chancellor.


We have alot of cap flexibility and trading Matt Flynn will only give us more.


No, we really don't. We have our own players to retain and as I pointed out we need to preserve cap space as much as we can for the next few years as we are going to need to pay out HUGE to keep our studs.

The Flynn trade is a whole separate issue. I'm not sure we trade him unless the deal knocks our socks off. We are lucky to have a quality back-up QB, something that can't be overstated.

I'm not saying we are cap tight, but we must be cap savvy. I'm not worried about it - John Schneider and John Idzik have done a great job managing it. The point is more that we can't just go sign premiere WRs, DEs and DTs. As always, filling the needs will be a mix of smart free agent decisions and also a solid draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:59 am 
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We have 10 draft picks coming our way so far !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :th2thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:00 am 
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We have our own players to retain and as I pointed out we need to preserve cap space as much as we can for the next few years as we are going to need to pay out HUGE to keep our studs.


I think it's a mistake to play this offseason "safe".

We're already one of the top 5 teams in the NFL, despite being the 2nd youngest. I think if there are clear pieces that may put us over the top... such as a Mike Wallace or a discounted Richard Seymour, I think we roll the dice.

Having a backup QB receiving starter pay doesn't exactly jibe with your save money philosophy. I think using that money for a DT would be better served. I also think we let Sidney Rice walk when his ridiculous contract expires. That should free up a grip of cap space.


Last edited by SDHawk on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:01 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
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We have our own players to retain and as I pointed out we need to preserve cap space as much as we can for the next few years as we are going to need to pay out HUGE to keep our studs.


I think it's a mistake to play this offseason "safe".

We're already one of the top 5 teams in the NFL, despite being the 2nd youngest. I think if there are clear pieces that may put us over the top... such as a Mike Wallace or a discounted Richard Seymour, I think we roll the dice.


I agree to an extent - for instance, I'd love Wallace. But they are rolling over a lot of cap this season, and that's because they realize what looms over the horizon.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:06 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:
SDHawk wrote:
Quote:
We have our own players to retain and as I pointed out we need to preserve cap space as much as we can for the next few years as we are going to need to pay out HUGE to keep our studs.


I think it's a mistake to play this offseason "safe".

We're already one of the top 5 teams in the NFL, despite being the 2nd youngest. I think if there are clear pieces that may put us over the top... such as a Mike Wallace or a discounted Richard Seymour, I think we roll the dice.


I agree to an extent - for instance, I'd love Wallace. But they are rolling over a lot of cap this season, and that's because they realize what looms over the horizon.


Exactly. Do we risk losing Thomas, Sherman, Okung, etc. for the shot at a guy we THINK might put us over the top?

It's the difference between looking at each season in a vacuum and looking at a window of opportunity. If you're thinking of 2013 and absolutely nothing else, then yeah, maybe you sell out and blow tons of cash in FA to "get over the hump." If you want the Hawks to be SB contenders for the next decade, then you don't spend your money in FA - you spend it to lock up your own key superstars and continue replenishing the team through the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:06 am 
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Doesn't JS's ability to draft also afford this franchise the ability to sign a big name or two? Cant they lean on "even if HE walks, we can get a cheap replacement in the 3rd?"


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:09 am 
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Mike wallace.. I think the defensive line can be addressed through the draft.. This years draft us supposed to be one of the best d line drafts in awhile they have like 20 guys projected as 1st rounders..


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:12 am 
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Exactly. Do we risk losing Thomas, Sherman, Okung, etc. for the shot at a guy we THINK might put us over the top?

It's the difference between looking at each season in a vacuum and looking at a window of opportunity. If you're thinking of 2013 and absolutely nothing else, then yeah, maybe you sell out and blow tons of cash in FA to "get over the hump." If you want the Hawks to be SB contenders for the next decade, then you don't spend your money in FA - you spend it to lock up your own key superstars and continue replenishing the team through the draft.


We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now were a top 5 team... I think it takes just a couple splashy moves to cement us firmly as superbowl contenders for the next 3-4 years.

Sidney Rice's contract expires in 2016. That should free up a grip of cash, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:13 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Doesn't JS's ability to draft also afford this franchise the ability to sign a big name or two? Cant they lean on "even if HE walks, we can get a cheap replacement in the 3rd?"


Even given Schneider's draft acumen, we're still dealing with two uncertainties against one certainty.

We know what we have in a guy like Thomas, for example. We don't, however, know that Player X in the 3rd round could replace him or that Player Y in FA will make a difference in the way we expect.

Think about it. Buffalo paid handsomely for Mario Williams, and he was a relative non factor for them this season. Lots of people wanted Williams here, too, and maybe it would have been different. But now Williams' contract limits what Buffalo can do at other positions, and the new coach and GM are inheriting that mess.

I guess another thing that influences my thinking on this discussion is that I pretty much hate FA. I think the number of times it's paid off for teams is absolutely dwarfed by the number of times it hasn't. It's paying a player for past performance rather than future potential, for the most part - especially when it comes to the big name guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:18 am 
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Great stuff, Vols. You still need a haircut though, hippy.

I agree that FA to address any defensive need will spell doom about 70% of the time. Defense is about young guys and that’s pretty much it. But, on offense, it pays immediate dividends (outside of RB). The Latin term for that theory is "reverscus Holmgrenus"


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:20 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
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Exactly. Do we risk losing Thomas, Sherman, Okung, etc. for the shot at a guy we THINK might put us over the top?

It's the difference between looking at each season in a vacuum and looking at a window of opportunity. If you're thinking of 2013 and absolutely nothing else, then yeah, maybe you sell out and blow tons of cash in FA to "get over the hump." If you want the Hawks to be SB contenders for the next decade, then you don't spend your money in FA - you spend it to lock up your own key superstars and continue replenishing the team through the draft.


We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now were a top 5 team... I think it takes just a couple splashy moves to cement us firmly as superbowl contenders for the next 3-4 years.

Sidney Rice's contract expires in 2016. That should free up a grip of cash, too.


IMO, we're at the bridge right now. For example, if we think Golden Tate is worth keeping, it would benefit the team to lock him up this offseason instead of waiting for him to hit FA after 2013 is done. Thomas will come up the year after that, and Okung after that. Okung and Russell Wilson become FAs the same year, and it will be tough to award them both big contracts in the same offseason. Making splashy moves for other team's players will absolutely cost us critical pieces of our team, imo. We'll be filling one hole while digging another.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:21 am 
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I agree that FA to address any defensive need will spell doom about 70% of the time. Defense is about young guys and that’s pretty much it.


You wouldn't take a discounted Richard Seymour for a couple years?


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:23 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
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I agree that FA to address any defensive need will spell doom about 70% of the time. Defense is about young guys and that’s pretty much it.


You wouldn't take a discounted Richard Seymour for a couple years?


Oh, I would. ABSOLUTELY. Or, Dockett (he'll be cut).

The success rate doesn't apply if the FA would slaughter a bag of puppies to hit Colin Kapernick just once. Youth or attitude works.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:24 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
SDHawk wrote:
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Exactly. Do we risk losing Thomas, Sherman, Okung, etc. for the shot at a guy we THINK might put us over the top?

It's the difference between looking at each season in a vacuum and looking at a window of opportunity. If you're thinking of 2013 and absolutely nothing else, then yeah, maybe you sell out and blow tons of cash in FA to "get over the hump." If you want the Hawks to be SB contenders for the next decade, then you don't spend your money in FA - you spend it to lock up your own key superstars and continue replenishing the team through the draft.


We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now were a top 5 team... I think it takes just a couple splashy moves to cement us firmly as superbowl contenders for the next 3-4 years.

Sidney Rice's contract expires in 2016. That should free up a grip of cash, too.


IMO, we're at the bridge right now. For example, if we think Golden Tate is worth keeping, it would benefit the team to lock him up this offseason instead of waiting for him to hit FA after 2013 is done. Thomas will come up the year after that, and Okung after that. Okung and Russell Wilson become FAs the same year, and it will be tough to award them both big contracts in the same offseason. Making splashy moves for other team's players will absolutely cost us critical pieces of our team, imo. We'll be filling one hole while digging another.


I understand and appreciate your point, but if Mike Wallace, Jared Cook and Richard Seymour came to our door looking for employment, I would be happy to write them a check.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 am 
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Well, having 10 picks in a deep draft is good ammo for a lot of scenarios of which Pete and John are pretty good at.

I can see us being involved in F.A. but am unsure of all out pursuit of many.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:34 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
SDHawk wrote:
We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now were a top 5 team... I think it takes just a couple splashy moves to cement us firmly as superbowl contenders for the next 3-4 years.

Sidney Rice's contract expires in 2016. That should free up a grip of cash, too.


IMO, we're at the bridge right now. For example, if we think Golden Tate is worth keeping, it would benefit the team to lock him up this offseason instead of waiting for him to hit FA after 2013 is done. Thomas will come up the year after that, and Okung after that. Okung and Russell Wilson become FAs the same year, and it will be tough to award them both big contracts in the same offseason. Making splashy moves for other team's players will absolutely cost us critical pieces of our team, imo. We'll be filling one hole while digging another.


I understand and appreciate your point, but if Mike Wallace, Jared Cook and Richard Seymour came to our door looking for employment, I would be happy to write them a check.


As long as Cook comes at a reasonable price, I could accept that.

Wallace, hmm.... I seriously doubt he's going to provide an offensive spark commensurate with the contract he's going to get from wherever. Maybe if his diva nature drives his price down, then maybe... but he showed up SMALL for the Steelers this season. They couldn't count on him at all. I'm leery of that kind of player.

Seymour, I don't know. At his age, I'd be concerned that the injury that landed him on IR this season is the start of a laundry list of injuries that either reduce his effectiveness or leave him on the sidelines. He's not going to be a "vet minimum" kind of guy, either.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:37 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
IMO, we're at the bridge right now. For example, if we think Golden Tate is worth keeping, it would benefit the team to lock him up this offseason instead of waiting for him to hit FA after 2013 is done. Thomas will come up the year after that, and Okung after that. Okung and Russell Wilson become FAs the same year, and it will be tough to award them both big contracts in the same offseason. Making splashy moves for other team's players will absolutely cost us critical pieces of our team, imo. We'll be filling one hole while digging another.


You forgot this one guy on defense can't remember his name but some people say he is pretty good and he plays in the backfield think they call it back corner or something like that. Likes to talk a lot and he is good. I mean he is not pro-bowl good but pretty good......

His contract might be coming up the year after next and could require a few dollars as well

Agree - time to front-load existing guys that we want to keep to have room year after next and the season after that. Must get better through draft and if anything I say trade players away to open up cash room and get cheap rookies in here....


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:39 am 
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Wallace, hmm.... I seriously doubt he's going to provide an offensive spark commensurate with the contract he's going to get from wherever. Maybe if his diva nature drives his price down, then maybe... but he showed up SMALL for the Steelers this season. They couldn't count on him at all. I'm leery of that kind of player.


How many 4.3 receivers you know that would fit perfectly with a scrambling qb like RW3? How many times have you seen RW3 scramble out of the pocket only to hold onto the ball too long because his receivers couldn't separate? If we can shell out ~$8M per year for Sidney Rice...


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:40 am 
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I'm hoping Wallace's value dropped. IMO, his numbers dropped due to his holdout and Arians being gone. But, Wallace thrived with a QB whom improvises and extends plays. He's EXACTLY the right WR.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:50 am 
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What about Dwayne Bowe??? Isnt he a FA this year?


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:54 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
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Wallace, hmm.... I seriously doubt he's going to provide an offensive spark commensurate with the contract he's going to get from wherever. Maybe if his diva nature drives his price down, then maybe... but he showed up SMALL for the Steelers this season. They couldn't count on him at all. I'm leery of that kind of player.


How many 4.3 receivers you know that would fit perfectly with a scrambling qb like RW3? How many times have you seen RW3 scramble out of the pocket only to hold onto the ball too long because his receivers couldn't separate? If we can shell out ~$8M per year for Sidney Rice...


Not sure, but I bet we could find someone in the draft or with a cheaper price tag that would give us most if not all of what Wallace could bring us. Who's to say that Rice and Wilson won't work together over the offseason to improve their chemistry/communication?

Hell, isn't Rice an excellent example of what going after FA WRs can do? I don't think anyone here would suggest that he's lived up to the deal we gave him, and make no mistake... Wallace is looking for that same kind of deal. How do we tie THAT much money up in WRs? Unless we're going to cut Rice loose to make room for Wallace (thereby taking at least a few million in cap room as Rice's guaranteed money accelerates onto the 2013 cap), it doesn't make much sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:00 pm 
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im actually strangely content with doing nearly nothing in FA this year, with how many draft picks we have before the draft even begins and how deep the talent seems this year i dont see nor want to see any big contracts. especially considering we will have to start resigning some important people in the next few years


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Is Henry Melton worth giving up the picks for if he gets franchised? I would love to get the 3-technique position locked up long-term. We're going to be picking low in round 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Just something to keep in mind in terms of some of these discussions ...

2013 NFL Available Cap Space ...

1) Cincinnati ... $55.1 M
2) Cleveland ... $48.9 M
3) Indianapolis . $46.0 M
4) Miami ......... $35.8 M
5) Tampa Bay .. $31.3 M
6) Jacksonville.. $22.1 M
7) Buffalo ....... $20.6 M
8] Tennessee .. $19.4 M
9) Seattle ..... $18.6 M
9) New England $18.6 M
11) Denver ......$18.5 M
12) Minnesota ..$16.1 M
12) Kansas City $16.1 M
14) Baltimore ...$15.7 M
15) Chicago .... $13.3 M
16) Houston ... $12.9 M
17) San Diego ....$8.7 M
18) Green Bay ....$7.1 M
19) Philadelphia ..$5.2 M
20) Atlanta ....... $4.9 M
21) San Fran ..... $3.9 M
22) St. Louis .... $1.8 M
23) Arizona .... $723,000
24) Detroit .... (- $1.1 M)
25) Washington(- $4.0 M)
26) Oakland ... (- $4.5 M)
27) NY Giants ..(- $4.7 M)
28) Pittsburgh ..(-10.8 M)
29) Carolina ... (-11.8 M)
30) N. Orleans (-14.7 M)
31) Dallas ..... (- 18.2 M)
32) NY Jets ... (- 19.4 M)

Source:
http://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-team-cap-space-6/

Those numbers will obviously change, but they should be fairly current.


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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:29 pm 
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I would love to see Starks or Melton on this team.

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 Post subject: Re: Offseason Free Agency Addition Thoughts ...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:38 pm 
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A-Dog wrote:
Is Henry Melton worth giving up the picks for if he gets franchised? I would love to get the 3-technique position locked up long-term. We're going to be picking low in round 1.


Precisely the question I'm throwing out there regarding him and some of these players who will get franchised. Now I'm not saying Melton is that guy necessarily ... but let's say you've got a RFA who can really "Tilt the Room" at his particular position (a Victor Cruz or maybe even a Mike Wallace for example) ... it might be worth entertaining the possibility, given where the Seahawks will be drafting. I'm not sure I would do it in the end ... but given their draft position, it might be worth considering.


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