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 Post subject: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:36 pm 
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I watch most games on TV where it's hard to see what's happening in the secondary. What are some of the reasons why Browner & Sherman are so good...and so much better than other players in the league? Obviously we all hear about the size of them...so it makes sense that a bigger player can do a better job of blocking the window between the QB & the WR...and has a better chance to knock the ball away.

When playing bump & run...I guess a bigger player can knock the WR off his main route immediately and hope to take him out of the play. Is Browner particularly good at this just because how big and strong he is?

When the WR's are releasing off the line clean....why is Sherman specifically so good at coverage? Is it that he's so smart he knows what route is coming...or he can just stay with the guy because he's so fast...or closing speed when the ball is in the air....or all of the above?

Just looking for some of the more well versed football people out there to try to explain in some more detail what makes Browner & Sherman the best tandem in football.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Number one, the scheme is simple. They either play off press, inside leverage, or outside leverage. Mostly inside leverage, so they can make QBs throw over them to the sidelines.
Number two, they are big enough to mess up timing of routes. Especially Browner. And both are big enough to make receivers get short arms if they are playing off press and the route is a short stick route. Turn your back to them and you start to wonder when the hit is coming. redirect a receiver off his route and odds are the QB will move along in his progressions.

Sherman has mastered the art of press and bail. Browner not so much. Both are really good at a lot of little grabs, so they get away with a lot of stuff that drives receivers nuts. It's hard to focus with those hands on you constantly.

Sherman is a former receiver, I think he knows where the pass is going just as much as the offense. See: baiting Brady, Sanchez, Kaepernick and Bradford into easy picks.

And they know Earl is over the top. Lets not forget just how much he allows them to cheat. Browner was beat on the ball Earl took from Griffen.

People like to call them shut down corners, but they aren't. They aren't Darelle Revis, you don't get to put them on the best receiver and just forget he exists.

Here is what is scary: give them a more consistent pass rush, and they will only be more dominant. Press cover gets real easy when you know the QB only has 2.5 seconds to get it out.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:59 pm 
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They trust each other, which goes a LONG way. They know Earl will help over the top and that allows them some freedom.

They are big guys, and they are physical. As sam1313 said, they cover a lot of area with their arms - freakishly. They are well coached, they have fluid hips and they are smart.

Something else that cannot be emphasized enough is the mental piece - they get in WRs heads, whether they want to admit it or not. Looking across the line of scrimmage at a 6'3" or 6'4" CB is not comforting. And the QB's throwing to them see large masses running step-for-step with their WR's.

They are not afraid to make tackles. And I agree with Scott -- if we had a dominating pass rush, it's SCARY to imagine how good they would be.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:01 pm 
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They were showing some video during preseason practice and I noticed that BB would just stiff arm TO into the ground at the snap of the ball. I think that they both harass at the snap to try and take them out early but like you I can only watch on TV so I'm in the dark on the rest of the plays once they get downfield out of the camera's view.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:02 pm 
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I read an article from FG a couple months back saying that Sherman has mastered the timing of his hips when turning to run with receivers. That's a huge factor in being able to keep up with your man in bump-and-run.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Hello Seahawks fans. First post here.

The Falcons and Seahawks secondaries are very similar in production and swagger. Here are the season stats:

ATL - 323 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 17 INTs, 53 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs
SEA - 293 tackles, 1.0 sacks, 14 INTs, 45 PDs, 9 FFs, 6 FRs

When looking at the comparison, it's difficult to understand how the media is only talking about Seattle's pass defense. But, as Falcons fans, we've had to suck it up and deal with the national disrespect that has come in the wake of failing in the last three playoff appearances.

I believe this game will be tougher than many of you are thinking. I expect it to be an all out war. I love the playoffs! Good luck, and here's to zero injuries and a hell of a battle!

Thanks for granting me access to your boards. I've learned a lot about your team over the last couple of days by browsing around this place.

SoCal


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:03 pm 
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To add, in Sherman's case...his trash talk. He gets in the head of everyone he goes against, and get's takes out of the game mentally. It's hard to stay focused with a dude constantly in your grill, running his mouth. Lack of focus and concentration plays well into Sherm's hands.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Sherman specifically: his knowledge of what the receiver and QB is trying to do. His fluidness for his size. His height and wingspan. He is very polished from a technical standpoint. He understands what he is trying to do to the receiver and what the receiver is trying to do to him. Also, his confidence, his alpha personality, and his hands.

Browner specifically, his size, his physicality. He also is an alpha dog. He might get beat, but he might chase the play down and take the ball, too. Also, he is pretty athletic for his size (I think the play earlier this year on Cam Newton is a good picture for Browner at his best). I think for Browner, though, he may not be as successful if the Seahawks didn't put the defensive backfield together the way that they did. He can afford to be aggressive which is when he is at his best. Another strength of Browner is, if he is going to get beat, he'll simply tackle the guy or trip him up, or do whatever to prevent the score.

I think Lane is a real up and comer. I am very excited about him, but I think he is more the traditional type CB who is very athletic and is blazing fast (PC thinks he runs a 4.3).

I also like Maxwell. He has a good frame.

All the above is just my opinion and I am not one of the technical guys around here. Just thought I would weigh in.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Starrman44 wrote:
I think Lane is a real up and comer. I am very excited about him, but I think he is more the traditional type CB who is very athletic and is blazing fast (PC thinks he runs a 4.3).


I don't know how credible this site is, but they have (as of October) Lane running the 40 between 4.48 and 4.55.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB

I really like what I've seen out of Lane as well. That hit he laid on whatever bozo returns kicks for the skinheads (in the 4th quarter I think?) was reeeeeeaaaal nice/clean.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:19 pm 
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SouthSoundHawk wrote:
Starrman44 wrote:
I think Lane is a real up and comer. I am very excited about him, but I think he is more the traditional type CB who is very athletic and is blazing fast (PC thinks he runs a 4.3).


I don't know how credible this site is, but they have (as of October) Lane running the 40 between 4.48 and 4.55.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB

I really like what I've seen out of Lane as well. That hit he laid on whatever bozo returns kicks for the skinheads (in the 4th quarter I think?) was reeeeeeaaaal nice/clean.


Yeah, that is what Pete was saying. He said the conditions he ran in had a lot to do with it, and luckily for us, probably prevented him from being drafted.

He said, his guess would be that Lane is a 4.3 guy. It was on an earlier press conference.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:21 pm 
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SouthSoundHawk wrote:
Starrman44 wrote:
I think Lane is a real up and comer. I am very excited about him, but I think he is more the traditional type CB who is very athletic and is blazing fast (PC thinks he runs a 4.3).


I don't know how credible this site is, but they have (as of October) Lane running the 40 between 4.48 and 4.55.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB

I really like what I've seen out of Lane as well. That hit he laid on whatever bozo returns kicks for the skinheads (in the 4th quarter I think?) was reeeeeeaaaal nice/clean.



Pete and Gus have been quoted on saying Lane is the fastest player on the field, even faster than Thomas :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:27 pm 
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sam1313 wrote:
Wingspan, physicallity/toughness, and football smarts. Not sure on the order.


yup your height combined with span, receivers need more seperation to actually be open, plus in the end zone its a tighter lock, I mean how do you throw over their heads in that small box? they've had a few floated over their heads but not too many, its actually a play many coaches aren't even tempted to try most the time..

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Starrman44 wrote:
SouthSoundHawk wrote:
Starrman44 wrote:
I think Lane is a real up and comer. I am very excited about him, but I think he is more the traditional type CB who is very athletic and is blazing fast (PC thinks he runs a 4.3).


I don't know how credible this site is, but they have (as of October) Lane running the 40 between 4.48 and 4.55.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=CB

I really like what I've seen out of Lane as well. That hit he laid on whatever bozo returns kicks for the skinheads (in the 4th quarter I think?) was reeeeeeaaaal nice/clean.


Yeah, that is what Pete was saying. He said the conditions he ran in had a lot to do with it, and luckily for us, probably prevented him from being drafted.

He said, his guess would be that Lane is a 4.3 guy. It was on an earlier press conference.


I remember hearing/seeing that floating around the boards. Watching him gun dudes down on special teams when he's out there...I'm starting to believe it.


We should try and get The real Rob Report to do an inside investigation, maybe get Lane to run the 40 at the VMAC, just to put this to rest, haha.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Number one, the scheme is simple. They either play off press, inside leverage, or outside leverage. Mostly inside leverage, so they can make QBs throw over them to the sidelines.
Number two, they are big enough to mess up timing of routes. Especially Browner. And both are big enough to make receivers get short arms if they are playing off press and the route is a short stick route. Turn your back to them and you start to wonder when the hit is coming. redirect a receiver off his route and odds are the QB will move along in his progressions.

Sherman has mastered the art of press and bail. Browner not so much. Both are really good at a lot of little grabs, so they get away with a lot of stuff that drives receivers nuts. It's hard to focus with those hands on you constantly.

Sherman is a former receiver, I think he knows where the pass is going just as much as the offense. See: baiting Brady, Sanchez, Kaepernick and Bradford into easy picks.

And they know Earl is over the top. Lets not forget just how much he allows them to cheat. Browner was beat on the ball Earl took from Griffen.

People like to call them shut down corners, but they aren't. They aren't Darelle Revis, you don't get to put them on the best receiver and just forget he exists.

Here is what is scary: give them a more consistent pass rush, and they will only be more dominant. Press cover gets real easy when you know the QB only has 2.5 seconds to get it out.


that is a very good write up... Another thing to add is Earl Thomas, he is the cog that enables them to Cheat up and press longer.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 pm 
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While Browner is obviously not the quickest or fundamentally strongest cover cb around, he great to want on the field if you're a Hawks fan. You just know that sooner or later each week he is going to do something that only a really, really bad dude is capable of. See weekly examples from this season. My favorite was the goal line play/forced fumble against Green Bay. What corner does that? Love it.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:19 pm 
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SoCalFalconFan wrote:
Hello Seahawks fans. First post here.

The Falcons and Seahawks secondaries are very similar in production and swagger. Here are the season stats:

ATL - 323 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 17 INTs, 53 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs
SEA - 293 tackles, 1.0 sacks, 14 INTs, 45 PDs, 9 FFs, 6 FRs

When looking at the comparison, it's difficult to understand how the media is only talking about Seattle's pass defense. But, as Falcons fans, we've had to suck it up and deal with the national disrespect that has come in the wake of failing in the last three playoff appearances.

I believe this game will be tougher than many of you are thinking. I expect it to be an all out war. I love the playoffs! Good luck, and here's to zero injuries and a hell of a battle!

Thanks for granting me access to your boards. I've learned a lot about your team over the last couple of days by browsing around this place.

SoCal


It's not difficult for me to see why the media isn't talking about the Falcon pass defense. I just looked at their schedules and the QBs they intercepted. Let me say, not too impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:39 pm 
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rideaducati wrote:
SoCalFalconFan wrote:
Hello Seahawks fans. First post here.

The Falcons and Seahawks secondaries are very similar in production and swagger. Here are the season stats:

ATL - 323 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 17 INTs, 53 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs
SEA - 293 tackles, 1.0 sacks, 14 INTs, 45 PDs, 9 FFs, 6 FRs

When looking at the comparison, it's difficult to understand how the media is only talking about Seattle's pass defense. But, as Falcons fans, we've had to suck it up and deal with the national disrespect that has come in the wake of failing in the last three playoff appearances.

I believe this game will be tougher than many of you are thinking. I expect it to be an all out war. I love the playoffs! Good luck, and here's to zero injuries and a hell of a battle!

Thanks for granting me access to your boards. I've learned a lot about your team over the last couple of days by browsing around this place.

SoCal


It's not difficult for me to see why the media isn't talking about the Falcon pass defense. I just looked at their schedules and the QBs they intercepted. Let me say, not too impressive.


:lol: both mannings, and drew brees (you know the 5 interceptions he threw, (the last coming after a play he had just thrown an interception but called back due to penalty)..yea some pretty terrible qb's :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:59 pm 
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For Sherman, it's his hip work. He doesn't really have to play catch-up with his assignments. Most corners can't do it as well as he can. Add everything else he's good at, and...

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:03 pm 
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VancitySeahawk wrote:
Earl Thomas.

I think this is very true. ET makes their jobs a lot easier. They both are well coached and usually in the right position, but I'm telling you, ET makes a TON of difference.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
You know how sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield? Sherm and Browner are always the windshield.


IDK, Sherm seems to bug everybody, heheheh.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:59 am 
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keepertd wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
SoCalFalconFan wrote:
Hello Seahawks fans. First post here.

The Falcons and Seahawks secondaries are very similar in production and swagger. Here are the season stats:

ATL - 323 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 17 INTs, 53 PDs, 2 FFs, 4 FRs
SEA - 293 tackles, 1.0 sacks, 14 INTs, 45 PDs, 9 FFs, 6 FRs

When looking at the comparison, it's difficult to understand how the media is only talking about Seattle's pass defense. But, as Falcons fans, we've had to suck it up and deal with the national disrespect that has come in the wake of failing in the last three playoff appearances.

I believe this game will be tougher than many of you are thinking. I expect it to be an all out war. I love the playoffs! Good luck, and here's to zero injuries and a hell of a battle!

Thanks for granting me access to your boards. I've learned a lot about your team over the last couple of days by browsing around this place.

SoCal


It's not difficult for me to see why the media isn't talking about the Falcon pass defense. I just looked at their schedules and the QBs they intercepted. Let me say, not too impressive.


:lol: both mannings, and drew brees (you know the 5 interceptions he threw, (the last coming after a play he had just thrown an interception but called back due to penalty)..yea some pretty terrible qb's :roll:



You played the broncos week 2 so Peyton hadn't reached his normal playing potential yet...I had Eli in fantasy and the dude was hot and frigid cold all year. He had consecutive games where he gave me 4 points as my starting QB then he'd bust out for 40 ...dude was schizophrenic this year...I'll give you credit for Brees

But I'd rather see any of those QBs rather than Brady and Aaron Roger both who had greater weapons to throw too and half the Interceptions than Brees this year.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:12 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:

People like to call them shut down corners, but they aren't. They aren't Darelle Revis, you don't get to put them on the best receiver and just forget he exists.


Disagree. Sherman is shutdown.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:22 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:

People like to call them shut down corners, but they aren't. They aren't Darelle Revis, you don't get to put them on the best receiver and just forget he exists.


Disagree. Sherman is shutdown.


Not schematically. You are looking at results to define, I am looking at the fact that they do not iso him all the time, and certainly he only plays one side of the field.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes our CB's so great?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:

People like to call them shut down corners, but they aren't. They aren't Darelle Revis, you don't get to put them on the best receiver and just forget he exists.


Disagree. Sherman is shutdown.


Not schematically. You are looking at results to define, I am looking at the fact that they do not iso him all the time, and certainly he only plays one side of the field.


The term shutdown corner doesn't necessarily mean a certain type of style from a corner, it means they shut down whoever they cover.

Browner is not a shut down corner but Sherman without a doubt is. Teams don't throw at him. He literally shuts down whoever is across from him.

If Revis does it with a different style but Sherman still doesn't allow receptions (and therefore results) just as the same as Revis, how are they any different?


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