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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:43 am 
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i was wondering about browner, and with the bargaining agreement

where does shermann fit in..were we locked out when the draft happened or after the CBA

i just confused myself....Does Sherman fit in that criteria as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:50 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
pehawk wrote:
CPHawk wrote:
The guy already makes 3-6x what most people make, why would we pay for anything for him? I pay for his salary when I buy tickets and buy Seahawk gear. It's not like he's hurting at 350k a year plus bonus for playoff's and other things.


The dumbest arguement, ever.

Yeah, no doubt. Okay, just watch him leave when his conrtact is up for whoever is the highest bidder. I mean, if it's only about the money right..?



I've never heard him complain about money. For those forgetting, Allen is by far the richest owner in the NFL, and is willing to open up his wallet for players he wants. We won't get outbid for guys like Sherm and Russ.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:51 am 
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Luck 4 years 24 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

RG3 4 years 21 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

Russell Wilson 4 years $ 390,000

I just think its funny that's all

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Last edited by Okungfu on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:51 am 
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RG3 cant jump over hurdles in subway commercials anymore, perhaps Russel will get the Subway endorsement instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:58 am 
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He makes more than enough money, I dont feel bad for him. It isnt a gold digging contest, I dont care if he makes 5 million less than another player. He should be paying me, he doesnt have this job without fans in the world to create the opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:01 am 
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ensett wrote:
He makes more than enough money, I dont feel bad for him. It isnt a gold digging contest, I dont care if he makes 5 million less than another player. He should be paying me, he doesnt have this job without fans in the world to create the opportunity.


You'd be the first person whining if your peers made 10x what you were making, in same profession. Your posts reeks of jealousy "I don't make that much money, so no one should".

Gain perspective or talent and you'll see this differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:04 am 
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If Russ got more money he'd probably just donate it to the research that cures cancer or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:04 am 
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If I was whining despite making more than most people on the planet, Id be a worthless person.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:07 am 
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ensett wrote:
If I was whining despite making more than most people on the planet, Id be a worthless person.


Not the point. Point is ones market value. I'm not sure why, but ill never care what anyone gets or tries to get financially.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:22 am 
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Allen can just drop a few of his CEO buddies a note on who to get to do their commercials for now, and when the CBA allows, crack open the piggy bank.

As far as any of you dipsticks who fall back on how what he makes is a lot more than the average person, this is a guy who is creating a massive revenue stream for the Hawks with his talents. Millions of dollars are being made in TV ratings, jersey sales, etc, and if you don't think he deserves a chunk of that revenue because your sorry ass isn't rolling bank, you are a hateful turd.

The Redskins/Hawks tilt had a TV rating of 24, 7 points higher than any other game on the weekend. He had something to do with that. Russell is must see TV, and those 7 points were worth tens of millions in ad revenue. Rules are rules, and he can't get more money from the Hawks until the time has gone by, but Nike, Russell, Wilson, Cadillac, Yugo, and every other company in the world should be getting a little prod from ownership to bankroll this fella on the next ad campaign. He plays a violent game, and you never know what the future holds, so get him his chunk of the pie he is helping make right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:37 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:41 am 
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Wilson makes good despite how you all consider it below market value. It isn't as if before the new CBA GM's were renegotiating contracts after the first year because the didn't. Saying a guy who makes great money should be getting free stuff around town because he throws a football well is frankly silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:41 am 
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How much did Levi's pay him. This guy will make a few mill next year without his checks from the hawks, don't cry to much for him. Any company would be happy to have him as their spokesman. I bet if he makes the super bowl he will have so many deals he will be up at 5 mill a year just off of those.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:01 pm 
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NFL Contracts do not limit a players earning potential.

Would I give the guy a free service if he called, sure. And I would try to exploit it for what its worth to me same as anyone in business. And if I had the money as a top CEO of a top company, I would love to do all I could as his fan to make sure his NFL contract didn't make him feel unwanted.

I admire Wilson less for football and more for his work ethic then anything else this kid does. It inspires me at almost twice his age because I have my own factors to overcome. His cliches are not cliches when put into the moment from his perspective. They are mantras that keep the perspective and sure they can sound corny and all that, but in order to be so calm under pressure it takes training your mind to look past how you feel and circumstances and gaining the perspective.

But for all that, I got to say that my business partners and others I end up working with are my heroes too. When someone doesn't have quit in themselves and overcomes mistakes and you can count on them to do better the second time around, that is always going to be valuable. The only limits anyone has are the limits they are going to settle for and believe. Wilson personifies this and I am sure he understands its this, no matter how much talent he has, that will bring into reality everything he puts on his list to accomplish and gain.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:10 pm 
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just from the sheer fact that Russell Wilson doesn't disappear from ESPN front pages and is quickly turning into a household name for mainstream America, you can all rest assured that he is pretty much all set for the rest of his life. he probably made more money from all the endorcements / commercials this year than most of us make with 10 years of hard labor and sleepless nights.

now it is just a matter of figuring out if he is going to bath in luxury until his death and / or if same would be true for his children and his children's children.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:15 pm 
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12evanf wrote:
If Russ got more money he'd probably just donate it to the research that cures cancer or something.


I never got the impression he isn't a guy who likes nice things..


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:22 pm 
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It's funny how they throw out the base salary but don't mention his signing bonus of over $600k which puts his total money paid to him this season at over $1 million. Sure he's a great value, but this is how the cap is designed, and the guy isn't going to go broke with his Million dollars this year, and another Million dollars plus over the next two seasons, not including any endorsements.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:36 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
pehawk wrote:
CPHawk wrote:
The guy already makes 3-6x what most people make, why would we pay for anything for him? I pay for his salary when I buy tickets and buy Seahawk gear. It's not like he's hurting at 350k a year plus bonus for playoff's and other things.


The dumbest arguement, ever.

Yeah, no doubt. Okay, just watch him leave when his conrtact is up for whoever is the highest bidder. I mean, if it's only about the money right..?


1. I doubt the Seahawks are stupid and will reward him big time when it's time for his next contract
2. Even if they are having trouble coming to a deal, I think he would be franchised. I see no way if he keeps this up that he's not a Hawk.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:42 pm 
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How about a 20mil xbox,windows,bing endorsement deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Okungfu wrote:
Luck 4 years 24 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

RG3 4 years 21 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

Russell Wilson 4 years $ 390,000

I just think its funny that's all


It is also funny to compare 4 year contracts of Luck and RG3 with the pure salary for one year for RW

RW's contract is $2.99million

Separately for those saying Allen won't be outbid. It isn't about spending the most. The issue is the CAP


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:46 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
It's funny how they throw out the base salary but don't mention his signing bonus of over $600k which puts his total money paid to him this season at over $1 million. Sure he's a great value, but this is how the cap is designed, and the guy isn't going to go broke with his Million dollars this year, and another Million dollars plus over the next two seasons, not including any endorsements.


He is not broke but lets say he tears up both his legs next game - never plays again. Lets say RG3 never plays again

Whom would you rather be?.......... The fact that he can't resign would make many risk adverse towards the end of that 3rd year contract. Why run for first down when you are in week 14 of the third year and have $20 million / year waiting for you in 2 games......

RW would probably go for it but there are many out there that would be smart and honestly I would not blame them one bit. The rookie salaries needed to get under control but the veterans completely screwed the rookies. Flat out screwed them and if the rookies had any money in the bank they should have refused the draft / refused to sign under that CBA but they had no leverage and were out of time


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Okungfu wrote:
Luck 4 years 24 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

RG3 4 years 21 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

Russell Wilson 4 years $ 390,000

I just think its funny that's all


If he was 1 - 3/8 inches taller, maybe he woulda made that kinda money! His fault!

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:55 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
It's funny how they throw out the base salary but don't mention his signing bonus of over $600k which puts his total money paid to him this season at over $1 million. Sure he's a great value, but this is how the cap is designed, and the guy isn't going to go broke with his Million dollars this year, and another Million dollars plus over the next two seasons, not including any endorsements.


He is not broke but lets say he tears up both his legs next game - never plays again. Lets say RG3 never plays again

Whom would you rather be?.......... The fact that he can't resign would make many risk adverse towards the end of that 3rd year contract. Why run for first down when you are in week 14 of the third year and have $20 million / year waiting for you in 2 games......

RW would probably go for it but there are many out there that would be smart and honestly I would not blame them one bit. The rookie salaries needed to get under control but the veterans completely screwed the rookies. Flat out screwed them and if the rookies had any money in the bank they should have refused the draft / refused to sign under that CBA but they had no leverage and were out of time


Sure a player can not play his hardest, but how long do you think those players actually play in the league if they don't give a full effort? They will be replaced by vets who will go all out. If RW wasn't going all out, Matt Flynn would be starting and when RW contract expired, he'd get a little raise. By playing lights out, he earns that HUGE payday when his time comes. Also, players who don't play with full effort and aren't getting the playing time to go with it, won't get the endorsements to help offset those salary differences.

Perhaps the CBA has gone off kilter for a few of the younger later round players, but it alleviates the holdouts that used to come and huge paydays for guys who had never proven themselves worthy. Vets didn't screw these new rookies, guys like Jamarcus Russel screwed these rookies by eating up cap space without a proven value.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:57 pm 
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I got an "Endorsement" on my drivers license for motorcycle for the last 45 Years, and I ain't seen a penny yet, I'm starting to feel ripped off.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Wilson is being paid the bargained wage and is neither a victim nor undeserving of the millions he is and will be making.

Fair wages, market value and deserve have nothing to do with this topic because the NFL does not have an open competitive labor market. Opinions about politics and how you might like to see this handled at your local small business or union shop are not relevant because the goals in the NFL are fundamentally different. The product is not the individual teams but the NFL as an entity, and that sets boundaries on the degrees to which teams actually compete with each other. That's why the teams support the salary caps and the rookie wage scales they collectively negotiated with the NFL players union.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:03 pm 
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ensett wrote:
If I was whining despite making more than most people on the planet, Id be a worthless person.


Most people in America makes more money than most people on the planet but the typical employee in this country prefers to have their salary compared to that of their peers. So if you were making 10% of the guy next to you and you were doing 10 times the job he was doing and in fact he only did any work when you were out sick (backup) you would have no issue with this because billions of people in India, Africa and China were making less than you?


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:07 pm 
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AgentDib wrote:
Wilson is being paid the bargained wage and is neither a victim nor undeserving of the millions he is and will be making.

Fair wages, market value and deserve have nothing to do with this topic because the NFL does not have an open competitive labor market. Opinions about politics and how you might like to see this handled at your local small business or union shop are not relevant because the goals in the NFL are fundamentally different. The product is not the individual teams but the NFL as an entity, and that sets boundaries on the degrees to which teams actually compete with each other. That's why the teams support the salary caps and the rookie wage scales they collectively negotiated with the NFL players union.


The ONLY reason I disagree with you is because the rookies and future incoming classes were not at the barganing table. The CBA was negotiated by a union filled with existing players and therefore bargained to their own advantage to the disadvantage of rookies. It would be VERY interesting if some rookies would take this to court.

While I agree that the top 10 contracts were stupid (look at Bradford's) I think there is an issue with the new ones as well. Middle ground would have been good and some metrics in place to allow for some significant raises such as 5th rounder being a starter in more than 6 games automatic 25% raise, makes pro-bowl or something else like that x% raise etc. There is something to be said for those outplaying their contract.

Remember Eagles receiver last year Jackson - avoided all big hits then got a huge contract this year......


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I think this is funny that everyone isn't putting the blame squarely where it belongs. On the players themselves.

After all its their vaunted Players Union who made this deal. The rule has been common knowledge right along that rookies after the top 10 drafts get so much and that's it for 4 years.

So let the players take care of that problem with their player reps.

And if he doesn't get hurt and knocked out of football you don't need to worry about the team taking care of him. They don't do business like that.

And think of the Redskins if this turns out to finish Griffin's career. They are on the other side of that deal, pay millions and get nothing. But I'd wager there are big insurance policys involved. And players can thank the Boz for thinking of his future that way and getting it covered.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:21 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Okungfu wrote:
Luck 4 years 24 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

RG3 4 years 21 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

Russell Wilson 4 years $ 390,000

I just think its funny that's all


It is also funny to compare 4 year contracts of Luck and RG3 with the pure salary for one year for RW

RW's contract is $2.99million

Separately for those saying Allen won't be outbid. It isn't about spending the most. The issue is the CAP


Those other two put 14 mil in the bank and are done , that's what's funny to me !

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:27 pm 
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twisted_steel2 wrote:
Okungfu wrote:
Luck 4 years 24 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

RG3 4 years 21 million 14 million dollar signing bonus

Russell Wilson 4 years $ 390,000

I just think its funny that's all


If he was 1 - 3/8 inches taller, maybe he woulda made that kinda money! His fault!


Lol agreed!

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:33 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
The ONLY reason I disagree with you is because the rookies and future incoming classes were not at the barganing table.

Of course, which is why the rookie wage scale is lower than it would have been if they were included. However, my point is that this is only one of many distortions.

NFL Teams and the union collude to set the salary cap, 53 man roster limit, guaranteed contracts, implications of bonuses on the salary cap and many other factors that prevent players from being paid "fair market value". Before fans complain about one distortion they need to seriously think about what the NFL would be like if they removed all of the limits and if teams actually simply paid their players based on current fair market value.

Would Wilson be making more or less money if the remaining 8 teams were competing to pay the best 8 QBs for Sunday? He may be earning millions for a single game, or finding himself making nothing when the Seahawks offered Brees $2 million for a single game check. Peyton Manning would probably only play home games, as mediocre teams would bid a lot of money to hire him for a single home game and drive up local interest. There would be no draft and teams in big cities would be able to afford the best players for the playoffs.

Fair market value has no consideration in the NFL because we fans think the sport is better when teams collude on stuff like salary caps and a rookie draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:28 pm 
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It is still fair market value - just a regulated market :) regulated by the NFL players and the owners....... The market isn't fair but what the players get paid is fair under those market conditions. In regards to rookies an unfair condition has been put in place limiting them compared to others in that same market place.

Not many employees are in a position where they could go from employeer one week to another next to a third the week after that so that they are limited to staying on a team while under contract is not something I see as unfair. Labor contracts are common place and so are non-compete clauses if you leave and that is really all it is.

We have different opinions but I don't know any other "distortions" within the labor agreement that all parties didn't agree on in a majority vote. This is the one item that distorts against the group excluded from voting. Kind of like current employees at my company voting to get rid of cleaning services and only have new hires do all the cleaning and meanwhile existing employees will get to split the savings on cleaning services.........

The only difference is that the incoming employees can either work for us or for peanuts in Canada


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:49 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
It is still fair market value - just a regulated market :) regulated by the NFL players and the owners....... The market isn't fair but what the players get paid is fair under those market conditions. In regards to rookies an unfair condition has been put in place limiting them compared to others in that same market place.

Not many employees are in a position where they could go from employeer one week to another next to a third the week after that so that they are limited to staying on a team while under contract is not something I see as unfair. Labor contracts are common place and so are non-compete clauses if you leave and that is really all it is.

We have different opinions but I don't know any other "distortions" within the labor agreement that all parties didn't agree on in a majority vote. This is the one item that distorts against the group excluded from voting. Kind of like current employees at my company voting to get rid of cleaning services and only have new hires do all the cleaning and meanwhile existing employees will get to split the savings on cleaning services.........

The only difference is that the incoming employees can either work for us or for peanuts in Canada


Don't most union contracts call for the newest employees to make the least, and aren't these contracts in place when new employees are hired? It's not like we are breaking some new kind of ground here with smaller contracts for new employees or having new employees come into a union with rules in place that they had no say so over.

The rule seems a bit unfair now, because none of the current vets had to work through a rookie scale. In a decade, most players will have done so, and the new guys will be seeing what the spoils are for their hard work under the rookie scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Rather than having something happen which would be a CBA violation and cost Seattle picks/money, I'm sure Wilson is getting taken care of with endorsements. (See the Levi commercial, for instance.)


Bingo! He has probably made more money already in endorsements than he has for playing football. After beating the Redskins his endorsement stock will sky rocket. Expect to see him in Nike commercials in the off- season.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Average NFL career is about 6 years if they make opening day's roster (the 3.5 number is lower than real numbers by all the people that gets cut early). This is very different than the normal union employee...... The Running back average is 2.57 under the same metric that the average is 3.5 so I am guessing that the average running back career is about 4.5 years or so if they make the opening day roster.

That first contract is 4 years - non negotiable for 3.

RW isn't going to complain. He will play all out for the rest of his career regardless. But the rookies got screwed and we will see many of them look fantastic for 1-2 years, get seriously injured and never have the big payday


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:39 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Average NFL career is about 6 years if they make opening day's roster (the 3.5 number is lower than real numbers by all the people that gets cut early). This is very different than the normal union employee...... The Running back average is 2.57 under the same metric that the average is 3.5 so I am guessing that the average running back career is about 4.5 years or so if they make the opening day roster.

That first contract is 4 years - non negotiable for 3.

RW isn't going to complain. He will play all out for the rest of his career regardless. But the rookies got screwed and we will see many of them look fantastic for 1-2 years, get seriously injured and never have the big payday


Russel Wilson, a third round draft pick put over a million in the bank from the Seahawks organization this year (before playoff checks). How is this being "screwed"? He was getting that million simply for being drafted, even if he didn't become the starter. Just as guys like Jemarcus Russell and other players "screwed" the NFL by taking huge paychecks and never doing a damn thing in their careers. At least Wilson and others can earn endorsement checks and have the chance to make even more money after the three years, but in the old system, tens of millions of cap room was getting tied up by players who never once stepped onto an NFL playing field. And many of these players further hurt their teams by holding out for those big paychecks which this CBA can no longer do.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Since you are in Anchorage we should just meet at Peanut farm and hash this out over a beer :)

Screwing used to be by players underperforming. Screwing now is by players overperforming their draft status. The system should have been corrected by metrics tied to the contract / performance bonus and they should be in the CBA to be equal. You would need to have them outside of the salary cap though which would be the major issue


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:24 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Since you are in Anchorage we should just meet at Peanut farm and hash this out over a beer :)

Screwing used to be by players underperforming. Screwing now is by players overperforming their draft status. The system should have been corrected by metrics tied to the contract / performance bonus and they should be in the CBA to be equal. You would need to have them outside of the salary cap though which would be the major issue


I think a simpler solution would be to renegotiate this at the next negotiation for a new CBA and make it so teams may (within the salary cap) put bonuses into the contracts based on level drafted. Say a first rounder would have to make the pro bowl as their contracts are already higher, but later round players can negotiate bonuses based on games started or minutes played over the course of a season or some other means of status, but honestly, it's only a small percentage of players who are on any extreme value charts because of this. There are still early rounders not earning the money they got to balance out the RW's of the draft who are being paid far too little for their value.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Russell has no injury worry... he can take out as big of a damned insurance policy on his career as he is comfortable in paying for. He can sit down with his financial guys and decide what his career is "worth" and buy a policy. That way if his "legs get ripped up" as stated above, then he collects on that policy. The team also has a policy on him and if he is hurt and never plays again, then they pay out the remainder of what he is owed, or reach an injury settlement (with him, it's likely he'd get the insurance payout as I am sure his contract is insured at this point).

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson can't even get a raise ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Those of you hoping Wilson doesn't bolt after his contract is up,,,,stop worrying. He already said he wants to spend his career as a Seahawk, and I believe him 100%

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